Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So how on earth have we gone from the original topic of the thread to discussing Smooth? Enough, move on.

It is related! Smooth was the one who said that the information came straight from SONY about fake songs. Now all of sudden, after a meeting at SONY (still according to Smooth), the songs aren't fake anymore. We deserve some explanation, and not twisted excuses. We are not blaming anyone, we just want to know what was going on and what is going on.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Actually I think this is alarming. I feel that there might be an impersonator on the 3 Cascio tracks and Sony has obviously got away with it. Its like opening a can of worms. How many shady releases will we see in the future with perhaps new technology allowing producers to alter voices/sounds even more?

If there is indeed an impersonator I am sure they could have done a better job - since there are many valid point the doubters bring up questioning certain part of the songs.

So if the songs are indeed fake, chances are we will see ever better and more polished fakes in the future!

I am not saying I know the vocals are fake, but I got to call what I hear somewhat. (while still being open to be proven otherwise)

The bolded part is my concern. The album is selling quite well. Sony tests the water this time and sees how the public accepts everything with the name Michael Jackson on it.

For the next release, it won't surprise me if Sony digs out some rough demos, get some "supporting vocals" to fill in the gap and put the label Michael Jackson no the make up songs.

 

[StaceyMJ]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

It is related! Smooth was the one who said that the information came straight from SONY about fake songs. Now all of sudden, after a meeting at SONY (still according to Smooth), the songs aren't fake anymore. We deserve some explanation, and not twisted excuses. We are not blaming anyone, we just want to know what was going on and what is going on.

Fine, well I'll PM him, ask him to come here and he can explain what happened. It's not fair to put him on blast when he isn't here to defend himself or explain his side of the story.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

^^ Very true....There have been a lot of fans who have done a complete 360....Trusting their ears on first instinct the first time they heard BN.....Now, they're hearing something different?

However, for me, I have NOT forgotten, and I will NEVER forget what my ears heard that first time....Feel the music, as Mike has always said...Don't worry, Michael, I'll never forget that....

Well... one of the reasons is that Sony streamed the wrong mix?!?!? As mentioned by some one before, a major international record label would make this kind of mistake.... :scratch:

I agree the CD sounds better. But still, not good enough for me to change my view completely.

My opinion still stands the same. I hear Michael in some parts of the songs. Unfortunately, most of the vocals I hear are "supporting vocals".

Also, I never forget how gutted I was when I heard Breaking News the first time. The shock, sadness and anger I felt are just heartbreaking.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Fine, well I'll PM him, ask him to come here and he can explain what happened. It's not fair to put him on blast when he isn't here to defend himself or explain his side of the story.

I agree. As I said, I am not talking about Smooth at all. I just assume that Smooth had his source and I am talking about his source who said that the songs were sung over 50% by another singer and that this info came straight from SONY. Later on, it was speculated that the source was telling his opinion (but later means after the meeting at SONY!).

So I am clearly talking about Smooth's source and SONY, not about Smooth.

Now if, as some say Smooth never had a source at SONY, then he unfortunately lied. It is not an accusation but a logical conclusion.

 

[StaceyMJ]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

OK, well I PM'd him. If we could just let it rest until he responds that would be great.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Well... one of the reasons is that Sony streamed the wrong mix?!?!? As mentioned by some one before, a major international record label would make this kind of mistake.... :scratch:

I agree the CD sounds better. But still, not good enough for me to change my view completely.

My opinion still stands the same. I hear Michael in some parts of the songs. Unfortunately, most of the vocals I hear are "supporting vocals".

Also, I never forget how gutted I was when I heard Breaking News the first time. The shock, sadness and anger I felt are just heartbreaking.

Yes, the second day, BN did sound more MJish...I guess....But, you're right, same with me, still doesn't sound like Michael 100% for me...

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Btw, if anybody's interested:

Both Chris Cadman (author of FOR THE RECORD) and me have known about "Monster" since 2006.

It's even in the "Rumor has it..." section of the first edition(!) of FOR THE RECORD (issued in early 2007).

I personally didn't include it into my known list "Unreleased Tracks / Non-Album-Tracks / Later-Released-Tracks" as I didn't know back then whether "Monster" was just written lyrics or already a song that Michael has laid down vocals for.


We didn't know about the Cascios back then.
We also knew that Michael wanted to collaborate with 50 Cent on a track and that he was in contact with DJ Whoo Kid. This wasn't even a secret. I think there are quite a bunch of people who knew about this back then.
But what we didn't know is that "Monster" was one and the same track.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

OK, well I PM'd him. If we could just let it rest until he responds that would be great.

Ok, here are the questions that I would like to ask,and only Smooth can answer. i also suppose that many of us would like to learn from Smooth what really happened when he clearly stated that the info he shared with us came straight from SONY.

1) Why Smooth used this particular wording: "...they did hire..."
This does not sound as an opinion, but as a pure confirmation.

["For those who are interested, I spoke with my source on the phone for over 30 minutes tonight regarding this whole mess. This is coming straight from Sony: the vocals are over 50% not MJ's, they did hire an impersonator to run over the majority of MJ's pre-existing vocals and tried to hide it with production.]

2) How come that Smooth now believes that the vocals are Michael's, despite the fact that his own source confirmed that the rest of the tracks were on the same boat?

"The remaining Cascio tracks including "Monster" are all in the same boat with some MJ vocals and some imposter vocals."

3) If there were a big meeting at SONY after what Smooth's source said, wouldn't it be logical to assume that after the meeting they decided to simply deny that Cascio tracks are fake and find an excuse to retract what Smooth's source already had revealed and disguise it as a simple opnion? If it were a simple opinion, would anyone use the wording such as in the first question: "...they did hire..."?

"There will be a big meeting tomorrow at Sony where they will discuss the future of this album. More to come... "


4) According to Smooth, his sources are reliable to such an extent that he believes what is communicated to him.

"I'm a positive guy, but I only believe sources so much."

5) After listening to the track, Smooth concludes what his own source had said previously (+ giving his opinion "most likely", now that is an opinion statement wording compared to "they did hire"):

"I have listened to that song 10 times in a row, and as much as I don't want to say it.... That's not MJ (atleast not 100%). They had someone add vocals, most likely Malachi."

How come all of sudden his not only his ears hear Michael but also he doesn't trust his source any more, since now he believes it is Michael singing on the Cascio songs?

6) The album was not removed from the market. Can we conclude that SONY prefered keeping on denying that the Cascio tracks are sung over 50% by an imposter?

"Such a disappointment. This will all blow up tomorrow. It could end up taking the entire album off the market..."

7) Does Smooth still believe it was a stunt for huge publicity?

"Unless of course it's a huge publicity stunt to get attention for the album. Like Teddy Riley said... time will tell."

 

[loka]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Btw, if anybody's interested:

Both Chris Cadman (author of FOR THE RECORD) and me have known about "Monster" since 2006.

It's even in the "Rumor has it..." section of the first edition(!) of FOR THE RECORD (issued in early 2007).

I personally didn't include it into my known list "Unreleased Tracks / Non-Album-Tracks / Later-Released-Tracks" as I didn't know back then whether "Monster" was just written lyrics or already a song that Michael has laid down vocals for.

yes "monster" is a supposed track crated in 1998 according to some lists of previous unreleased materials spread on the web...it's a fact known since 2007 at least.

Was it THIS Monster ?

we don't know.

Butr the coincidence of the titles is strong enough to make me think that MJ worked on this Track featured in Michael indeed.

 

[fzsky]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Dammit people, I thought we should keep this kind of thing in Monster Debate thread only.

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Btw, if anybody's interested:

Both Chris Cadman (author of FOR THE RECORD) and me have known about "Monster" since 2006.

It's even in the "Rumor has it..." section of the first edition(!) of FOR THE RECORD (issued in early 2007).

I personally didn't include it into my known list "Unreleased Tracks / Non-Album-Tracks / Later-Released-Tracks" as I didn't know back then whether "Monster" was just written lyrics or already a song that Michael has laid down vocals for.


We didn't know about the Cascios back then.
We also knew that Michael wanted to collaborate with 50 Cent on a track and that he was in contact with DJ Whoo Kid. This wasn't even a secret. I think there are quite a bunch of people who knew about this back then.
But what we didn't know is that "Monster" was one and the same track.

There is a MONSTER song, that is not the one from the Cascios.

That song is about a man who want to suicide.

:yes:

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Ok, here are the questions that I would like to ask,and only Smooth can answer. i also suppose that many of us would like to learn from Smooth what really happened when he clearly stated that the info he shared with us came straight from SONY.

1) Why Smooth used this particular wording: "...they did hire..."
This does not sound as an opinion, but as a pure confirmation.

["For those who are interested, I spoke with my source on the phone for over 30 minutes tonight regarding this whole mess. This is coming straight from Sony: the vocals are over 50% not MJ's, they did hire an impersonator to run over the majority of MJ's pre-existing vocals and tried to hide it with production.]

2) How come that Smooth now believes that the vocals are Michael's, despite the fact that his own source confirmed that the rest of the tracks were on the same boat?

"The remaining Cascio tracks including "Monster" are all in the same boat with some MJ vocals and some imposter vocals."

3) If there were a big meeting at SONY after what Smooth's source said, wouldn't it be logical to assume that after the meeting they decided to simply deny that Cascio tracks are fake and find an excuse to retract what Smooth's source already had revealed and disguise it as a simple opnion? If it were a simple opinion, would anyone use the wording such as in the first question: "...they did hire..."?

"There will be a big meeting tomorrow at Sony where they will discuss the future of this album. More to come... "


4) According to Smooth, his sources are reliable to such an extent that he believes what is communicated to him.

"I'm a positive guy, but I only believe sources so much."

5) After listening to the track, Smooth concludes what his own source had said previously (+ giving his opinion "most likely", now that is an opinion statement wording compared to "they did hire"):

"I have listened to that song 10 times in a row, and as much as I don't want to say it.... That's not MJ (atleast not 100%). They had someone add vocals, most likely Malachi."

How come all of sudden his not only his ears hear Michael but also he doesn't trust his source any more, since now he believes it is Michael singing on the Cascio songs?

6) The album was not removed from the market. Can we conclude that SONY prefered keeping on denying that the Cascio tracks are sung over 50% by an imposter?

"Such a disappointment. This will all blow up tomorrow. It could end up taking the entire album off the market..."

7) Does Smooth still believe it was a stunt for huge publicity?

"Unless of course it's a huge publicity stunt to get attention for the album. Like Teddy Riley said... time will tell."

Very very true.

Amazing answer.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Dammit people, I thought we should keep this kind of thing in Monster Debate thread only.

I suggested that, but it got missed, I guess...

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

There is a MONSTER song, that is not the one from the Cascios.

That song is about a man who want to suicide.

:yes:

Source?

Seems like there are two songs then.

 

[Kapital77]

Source?

Seems like there are two songs then.

From 1998:

"Monster is about a man who want to suicide because of drugs".

MJ did not write and sung those Cascio´s tracks.

Believe what you want.

 

[souldreamer7]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Why does it have to be Modern sounding - It has become a general rule that the track had to be modernized.

:wub:

 

[Korgnex]

MJ did not write and sung those Cascio´s tracks.

It's not objective to speculate and you cannot state your opinion as fact. You know that.


Thanks for posting the article.


Hmm, the most interesting part was the rumor that INVINCIBLE would have been called "Michael" according to this article. Unfortunately there's no concrete info on that track named "Monster". It could be wrong speculation as well.

Where's that scan from? What's the name of the Spanish magazine and when exactly in 1998 has it been published? Do you know?


To find out about another possible track is always interesting.


P.S.: You don't have to translate it. As long as it's not extremely complicated I can understand Spanish.

 

[Kapital77]

Where's that scan from? What's the name of the Spanish magazine and when exactly in 1998 has it been published? Do you know?

Here is another one, from "TV y novelas" from 1999:

And i repeat you, i am pretty sure that all those Cascio´s tracks are sung by Jason Malachi.

There is no doubt for me.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Thanks for the information, Kapital. That's new to me.

 

[Kapital77]

You are welcome.

A new proof that Mj did not wrote and sung those Cascio´s songs.

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

^ Where??


There are also two songs with the name "Cry".

Michael is known for forming new songs out of older songs (as many artists do). He's even created two songs, "Ghosts" and "Is It Scary" at the same time. Both have the same origin and still share some lyrics as well.

He's reworked "They Don't Care About Us", "Little Susie" and many more songs, years later after a first draft has been written or recorded.



Kapital77, there's really nothing you could call "proof".

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Yes, the second day, BN did sound more MJish...I guess....But, you're right, same with me, still doesn't sound like Michael 100% for me...

but why would you expect 100% Michael? Especially when they already said that there are additional vocals by James Porte on Breaking News. It's obvious that even though for people that "believe" the vocals to be Michael's, it wouldn't be 100%.

If I might - logically and legally- address one point

1) Why Smooth used this particular wording: "...they did hire..."

do you really think that Sony or whomever would confirm such action?

the vocals are over 50% not MJ's, they did hire an impersonator to run over the majority of MJ's pre-existing vocals and tried to hide it with production.

so it's Michael's vocals plus an additional vocal. If that additional vocal(s) is/are credited then it's not fake or fraud - it's supporting vocals. If that's the case Sony would have no issues to say that they hired people for additional vocals. It would be no different than hiring Teddy Riley to produce or Taryll to do the spoken parts.

"The remaining Cascio tracks including "Monster" are all in the same boat with some MJ vocals and some imposter vocals"

again MJ vocals with additional vocals and again if credited it's not fake or fraud.

note: at that time nobody knew about James Porte and that he also sang some vocals. He could have been labeled as "imposter" when he was actually a "supporting vocals" and of course "paid" for his contribution.

Overall you can see that Smooth says there's MJ's vocals on the songs. If true songs/vocals wouldn't be fakes. The only issue would become if the additional vocals are credited or not.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

but why would you expect 100% Michael? Especially when they already said that there are additional vocals by James Porte on Breaking News. It's obvious that even though for people that "believe" the vocals to be Michael's, it wouldn't be 100%.

I don't mind some additional vocals, but not to the point that his voice is unrecognizable....Maybe I shouldn't have expected 100% Michael, but I certainly didn't expect nearly ANY Michael!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

^ Where??


There are also two songs with the name "Cry".

Michael is known for forming new songs out of older songs (as many artists do). He's even created two songs, "Ghosts" and "Is It Scary" at the same time. Both have the same origin and still share some lyrics as well.

He's reworked "They Don't Care About Us", "Little Susie" and many more songs, years later after a first draft has been written or recorded.



Kapital77, there's really nothing you could call "proof".

Well, if proof is needed from those who released the album, there is info straight from SONY that they did hire a singer to complete more than 50% of the vocals on the Cascio tracks. They even had a meeting to decide what to do with the album - to release it or to remove it from the market.

The only problem is that this info was not confirmed officially. But it is understandable why -- following the meeting, the album hasn't been removed from the market, which means that there will never be an official statment from SONY confirming the Cascio tracks to be covered for more than 50% by another singer.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

but why would you expect 100% Michael? Especially when they already said that there are additional vocals by James Porte on Breaking News. It's obvious that even though for people that "believe" the vocals to be Michael's, it wouldn't be 100%.

If I might - logically and legally- address one point



do you really think that Sony or whomever would confirm such action?



so it's Michael's vocals plus an additional vocal. If that additional vocal(s) is/are credited then it's not fake or fraud - it's supporting vocals. If that's the case Sony would have no issues to say that they hired people for additional vocals. It would be no different than hiring Teddy Riley to produce or Taryll to do the spoken parts.



again MJ vocals with additional vocals and again if credited it's not fake or fraud.

note: at that time nobody knew about James Porte and that he also sang some vocals. He could have been labeled as "imposter" when he was actually a "supporting vocals" and of course "paid" for his contribution.

Overall you can see that Smooth says there's MJ's vocals on the songs. If true songs/vocals wouldn't be fakes. The only issue would become if the additional vocals are credited or not.

The problem is not the backing voice, but the leading vocals. By the way, we are not James Porrte's fans. Who took the decision to put him on all the three tracks? Why him? For more than 50% though, according to Smooth's source! It is serious and certainly unreleasable as Michael Jackson's songs on a ten-track album.

 

[Alec]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Do you people realize that James Prote is not singing any part of the lead vocals and people are only questioning them? It's not his voice singing the leads. He's singing background vocals and NO ONE is questioning that.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Exactly. No one cares (at least I don't) about the background vocals. It's the lead vocals I care about right now.

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Well, if proof is needed from those who released the album, there is info straight from SONY that they did hire a singer to complete more than 50% of the vocals on the Cascio tracks. They even had a meeting to decide what to do with the album - to release it or to remove it from the market.

The only problem is that this info was not confirmed officially. But it is understandable why -- following the meeting, the album hasn't been removed from the market, which means that there will never be an official statment from SONY confirming the Cascio tracks to be covered for more than 50% by another singer.

Since when have you been believing what "smooth" has said.

I do have a contact at Sony and such a meeting has never happened ANYWHERE.

Removing it from the market has never been considered. This sounds like a daydream.


Now you're switching to a "it's 50% in each track"-story. Don't you notice?



Hmmm, maybe I have under-estimated what kind of influence "smooth" 's postings could have had. Seems like many people are believing this weird story now. Funny that "smooth" has tried to ignore his former postings...


But don't forget: This thread isn't about "smooth".

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I do have a contact at Sony and such a meeting has never happened ANYWHERE.

Bit of a leap? Coming into this thread quite cold, but this statement stood out as a bit odd. I don't think you could rule out a meeting ever having happened in a worldwide corporation, because you have one contact.