Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

edit.

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I don't think it's a problem of who he decides to add into his ignore list. It's more a question of, why does he have to advertise it?

I agree with the first sentence. Who I choose to ignore or not is my business. It's not like I ask for their opinions to be prevented from the threads. If they are annoyed by my posts, they should add me to theirs.

As to why I say it (not advertise it, why did you use that verb?), I inform the person that I am adding to my list so that (s)he knows that I am not going to argue with him/her anymore

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

If you want to ignore people then take it up via PM. Don't publish it on the forum, its not the place for it.

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Why we need a new post if we have the post of MONSTER to talk about autheticity or fake?.

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

If you want to ignore people then take it up via PM. Don't publish it on the forum, its not the place for it.

I don't write a post just to say that. It is just in my posts. Since it is that a big problem I will post that part via PM from now on upon your request. No problem

 

[Triumph]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So when you speed up an acapella. the pitch will obviously change.

Being an audio engineer myself

err... at what stage if i may ask?
pitching (changing tempo) of an acapella does not change with time stretch
and it does NOT change the colors of a voice!

ever heard any of the club remixes that were done for michaels albums?
most of them (like Stranger In Moscow) were sped up for the house club remixes,
but it still sounded 100% like Michael Jackson.

So this excuse is nonsense, sorry.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Why we need a new post if we have the post of MONSTER to talk about autheticity or fake?.

you're right....maybe they should be merged?

 

[Miss_Dangerous]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Still unsure. Thanks for your efforts though.

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

you can speed down all Jason Malachi tracks like the way you've done...

It' JM, not MJ on that track...

And you know this how? That is your opinion, please do not state it as fact.

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

And you know this how? That is your opinion, please do not state it as fact.

Just don't forget to say this also when sby expresses the opposite ("it is MJ") stating it as a fact, despite believing the same. Thank you

 

[StaceyMJ]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Just don't forget to say this also when sby expresses the opposite ("it is MJ") stating it as a fact, despite believing the same. Thank you

Do you mind? Your rude posts directed at the staff of MJJC are really grating on me now. Either quit it, or I will save you the job and remove you.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Just don't forget to say this also when sby expresses the opposite ("it is MJ") stating it as a fact, despite believing the same. Thank you

That is true....Either side has no 'proof'...so why do we get berated when we say it's not MJ?

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

@barok232:

The official word is "It's Michael Jackson". That's called a fact*. Believe it or not.

*The term "fact" does NOTHING have to do with proof!!!


That's why someone who also believes it's Michael Jackson doesn't have to state this as an opinion as it's a fact.

However someone like you who is continuously SPECULATING it would not be Michael Jackson (including SPECULATING it would be the Jason dude) has to state this as an opinion as it's not a fact.


This is common sense.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

That is true....Either side has no 'proof'...so why do we get berated when we say it's not MJ?

I must agree on this one. Those who don't believe in those tracks are not MJ haters. So if we believe it is not him does not mean that we either hate MJ or wanna harm his legacy. We are part of the same community and we are not a negligable number. It is tiring to see that non believers must explicitely talk about their opinions, while stating that it is Michael singing poses no problems.

I agree that every staff member is entitled to their opinion, but it seems to me that their duty is also to remain unbiased when it comes to reminding members the difference between an opinion and a fact.

If a member here didn't point out that the title included the word "proof" that it is Mike singing, i wonder if the staff would have noticed it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

@barok232:

The official word is "It's Michael Jackson". That's called a fact*. Believe it or not.

*The term "fact" does NOTHING have to do with proof.


That's why someone who also believes it's Michael Jackson doesn't have to state this as an opinion as it's a fact.

However someone like you who is continuously SPECULATING it would not be Michael Jackson (including SPECULATING it would be the Jason dude) has to state this as an opinion as it's not a fact.


This is common sense.

I know that you are a huge MJ fan, as many of us as a matter of fact, but as much as I respect your position as a president of the Chinese MJ fan club, many of us do not believe it is MJ singing. It has nothing to do with speculation, but with our ears. Either our ears are malfunctioning, or there is something that is not as it should be. So, your fact is actually to us just an opinion, as our fact is to your ears just an opinion.

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

^ I'm NOT the president of the Chinese fan club. I can't even speak Chinese.


Please learn the legal definition of "fact". A fact does not have to be proven. What you mean is an "irrefutable fact". I was talking about some logical things. It's CORRECT to take the official statement "It's Michael Jackson" as a fact. However it's NOT correct to take any SPECULATION (that is questioning the validity) as a fact. It is an OPINION and should be stated as such.

That's it.

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

That is true....Either side has no 'proof'...so why do we get berated when we say it's not MJ?

They wanna have us banned you know. Don't agree with me at this point. I am their target now it seems

 

[StaceyMJ]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

They wanna have us banned you know. Don't agree with me at this point. I am their target now it seems

Laughable.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

^ I'm NOT the president of the Chinese fan club. I can't even speak Chinese.


Please learn the legal definition of "fact". A fact does not have to be proven. What you mean is an "irrefutable fact".

Oops, I've mistaken you for the president of the Chinese fan club loooool!

Nevermind, all in all, as I respect your right to opinion, you cannot state it as a fact, since you have not been there in the studio on the one hand, and on the other it is the first time in history of MJ's music that there are so many doubts about the tracks. It has nothing to do with The Jacksons statement or opinions! Indeed, many among doubters do not like the Jacksons family that much, but have to admit that they agree for once with them, which is rather a coincidence.

 

[TheMan1998]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

i've read a lot of post's regarding the authenticity of the vocals on the latest michael jackson album. in regard to the song "Monster" i know 100% the vocals are him. however that peticular track has been sped up and that his vocals have been pitched shifted up a little bit.

a friend of mine actually mixed on one of the three tracks that were given to Teddy Riley.
Being an audio engineer myself, i got some information on how that track was edited.

The original casio track was much slower, so for Teddy to make it more modern with the production he decided to speed it up (about 9 percent) and recreate the whole song from scratch, using the casio demo as a guide.

So when you speed up an acapella. the pitch will obviously change.
but with audio software like Melodyne (youtube it) you can fine tune pitch of the vocal take.
regardless of how well of a singer you are, 99% of the time Melodyne, or Autotune is used to tighten up the vocals. this HAD to be done because the whole track was sped up.

now if you try to slow down, or "Time Strech" the monster track it will NOT sound like michael no matter how hard you try because again, the key of the song will change and it just wont be the same. There is software that i've come across to slow down, and pitch down the track without changing the key.

i used "The Amazing Slowdowner" software to slow and pitch down the song.
i used the following settings and got it sounding close to Mike as possible.

Pitch: -23cents
Speed: 91.74speed

What do you guys think?

http://uploading.com/files/c33e277c/Monster+-23cents+91.74speed.mp3/

Sorry, but that's simply BS!

Not him, "no matter what" as the other fake song says.. This has NOTHING to do with pitch or any other stupid software... saying it's him is like saying Michael could sometimes sound like Cr@p.. Saying that Teddy changed the pitch of Michael's voice to sound that horrible, is like saying Teddy is the worst sound engineer in the world (or perhaps a genius..?)...

Sony made a huge mistake by buying the Cascio tracks... I can promise you one thing, there will no more Cascio tracks in future posthumous albums..

Edit: My opinion of course

 

[Aniram]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

What's the fact? What Sony and the Estate SAYS? And not more than half the community's ears who doubt the vocals?

And let me tell you that you are making excessive use of your authority here (being moderator here). So is the above just an opinion of yours, or some kind of warning?

More than half the community doubt the vocals? Last time I checked the polls, it was a very small minority who doubt it's him, and in my opinion they have nothing. The whole Malachi thing was exciting for a little bit but most of us have come to reality, have listened to the album on high quality speakers, and can tell it's Michael, no doubts.

By the way, in my opinion you can't really compare 'stalking me' on Privacy, where he sings the entire song uniquely to fit the beat, to Monster, an upbeat dance tune.

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

If a member here didn't point out that the title included the word "proof" that it is Mike singing, i wonder if the staff would have noticed it.

I edited the title in a quest to make everyone happy and reduce the arguments. Personally I haven't found the word "proof" alarming as I have seen links after links to youtube videos (that has been posted some members actively discussing on this thread) to be presented as "proof that it's JM". So if any comparison video could be labeled as "proof" that it's JM, any edited audio could be called "proof" as well. Whether it's indisputable or not is another issue.

anyway do not get stuck on the wording that much.

as I stated before everything posted by either side is just a personal opinion.

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Sorry, but that's simply BS!

Not him, "no matter what" as the other fake song says.. This has NOTHING to do with pitch or any other stupid software... saying it's him is like saying Michael could sometimes sound like Cr@p.. Saying that Teddy changed the pitch of Michael's voice to sound that horrible, is like saying Teddy is the worst sound engineer in the world...

Sony made a huge mistake by buying the Cascio tracks... I can promise you one thing, there will no more Cascio tracks in future posthumous albums..

:angel: I pray that you are right on this one!

My worst fear is if they go correct all our observations through this month (eg vibrato). This time with those 3 it was easy to obvious to tell. Can you imagine how difficult it could be the next time if they correct the imposter's flaws? :bugeyed (Still there 'll be flaws though...)

EDIT all the above is my opinion

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I edited the title in a quest to make everyone happy and reduce the arguments. Personally I haven't found the word "proof" alarming as I have seen links after links to youtube videos (that has been posted some members actively discussing on this thread) to be presented as "proof that it's JM". So if any comparison video could be labeled as "proof" that it's JM, any edited audio could be called "proof" as well. Whether it's indisputable or not is another issue.

anyway do not get stuck on the wording that much.

Well, I am very flexible, I am not stuck with the wording. However, when someone says it's a fact, I assume that they express their opinions, so why is it necessary each time to state that what we believe is a fact is actually just an opinion.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. However, there is one thing that I can't forget. When Breaking news was released, Smooth did say that his source confirmed directly from SONY that they hired a singer to cover more than 50% of the Cascio tracks. I was shocked. Later he twisted it into his source opinion. But the wording that he had chosen indicated that it was not an opinion, but a fact coming STRAIGHT from SONY.

What happened to that statement? Why is it being ignored? Many say that non believers were influenced by Taryll or the Jacksons, but this is not really the case. And those who point out the Jacksons forget to point out Smooth's source from SONY.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

@barok232:

The official word is "It's Michael Jackson". That's called a fact*. Believe it or not.

*The term "fact" does NOTHING have to do with proof!!!


That's why someone who also believes it's Michael Jackson doesn't have to state this as an opinion as it's a fact.

However someone like you who is continuously SPECULATING it would not be Michael Jackson (including SPECULATING it would be the Jason dude) has to state this as an opinion as it's not a fact.


This is common sense.

Korgnex i applaud You for this!


There is a sony pressrelease and there is the officiall booklet accompanying an official Sony Music release.

Wouldn't it be like this, it would be fraud and would already be handled in court.

They don't get that there are facts on one side and uneducated speculation and pure lies on the other side (their side)!

As i sad, they are helplessly lost in a weird & foggy storm. And they are far from clearing and making their mind up...

 

[barok232]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

More than half the community doubt the vocals? Last time I checked the polls, it was a very small minority who doubt it's him, and in my opinion they have nothing. The whole Malachi thing was exciting for a little bit but most of us have come to reality, have listened to the album on high quality speakers, and can tell it's Michael, no doubts.

By the way, in my opinion you can't really compare 'stalking me' on Privacy, where he sings the entire song uniquely to fit the beat, to Monster, an upbeat dance tune.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99885

 

[Triumph]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Korgnex i applaud You for this!


There is a sony pressrelease and there is the officiall booklet accompanying an official Sony Music release.

Wouldn't it be like this, it would be fraud and would already be handled in court.

They don't get that there are facts on one side and uneducated speculation and pure lies on the other side (their side)!

As i sad, they are helplessly lost in a weird & foggy storm. And they are far from clearing and making their mind up...

So because theres a Sony press release it's a fact?
Listen to "Tabloid Junkie" again.

 

[januska]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Korgnex i applaud You for this!


There is a sony pressrelease and there is the officiall booklet accompanying an official Sony Music release.

Wouldn't it be like this, it would be fraud and would already be handled in court.

They don't get that there are facts on one side and uneducated speculation and pure lies on the other side (their side)!

As i sad, they are helplessly lost in a weird & foggy storm. And they are far from clearing and making their mind up...

Outs! I suddenly started to feel sorry for myself, BIG time :bugeyed

I'm lost in the dark, don't find a way to believe everything I read...

...And even with high quality speakers, my ears are simply too low quality to hear MJ where I should :doh:

 

[Dark Artist]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I'm not lost or confused at all. I know exactly what I believe. I know what is fact and what is proof and I've weighed up everything and made up my own mind. At the end of the day, I find the similarities between Malichi's voice and the voice on the Cascio tracks, the same FLAWS in both voices, too compelling to ignore. This is very strong evidence in my opinion and too many fans overlook it or make excuses for it.

Getting back to the topic, this editing job didn't change my mind whatsoever, but I do appreciate the effort that the OP went to to make it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I'm not lost or confused at all. I know exactly what I believe. I know what is fact and what is proof and I've weighed up everything and made up my own mind. At the end of the day, I find the similarities between Malichi's voice and the voice on the Cascio tracks too compelling to ignore. This is very strong evidence in my opinion and too many fans overlook it or make excuses for it.

Getting back to the topic, this editing job didn't change my mind whatsoever, but I do appreciate the effort that the OP went to to make it.

How ignorant of you. Can't you see that you are lost and that you are trying to make excuses? Look at your screen name, it contains "dark", it means something! It's a sign!