MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Example: where did I say the Estate was to blame for the delay? Should be simple to repost if I did say any of what you accuse me of.

There are many, many tactics used during lawsuits for unnecessary and expensive procrastination. Some tactics are more effective than others.

To suggest a deposition would be stressful is most likely an expensive tactic to prolong the case thereby, draining legal funds for the opposing side.

This tactic by the estate has worked for some time however, this tactic by Tohme's laywer(s) trumps the estate's tactic.

so as you can see you claimed the delay was due to Estate tactics without bothering to learn that the case is waiting for labor commissioner decision for over a year.

You agreed that Mclain should submit to the deposition so his co-executor position is not at risk.

I never said he should, I said he could. HUGE difference. I also mentioned I didn't believe it was either/ or situation(either submit to a deposition or resign/lose his position), I clearly mentioned I believe there are other possibilities and added "Logical side in me says there could be a middle ground". So everyone saw that I never claimed "he should submit to a deposition". Furthermore I made myself very clear that in a case of his health vs. his executor position, my pick would be his health/ his life. so the claim that I would agree him to do something, anything to "not to risk his executor position" is quite absurd.

So in short while I acknowledged sitting for the deposition is a possibility, I absolutely did not state and absolutely do not agree that's something he "should" do or his focus should be on the executor position. so perhaps there's a misunderstanding here but I don't agree with what you are saying / the way you are saying it.

I have no personal grievance with any poster.

LOL. You are the first one on this thread to wrote "I believe some are supporting Mclain not participating in a deposition because they may believe that is being supportive of the Estate and/or executors. " and when I asked you a similar question you got defensive and started your personal attacks on me. and then when people complained about your off topic talks you gave them a lesson about how not to write personal issues on threads. It was quite hypocritical.

you frequently bow out when you realize you are not succeeding

Well I'm not in a win - lose battle with you. I express my opinion / information and that's it. You can be the one "succeeding", I don't care. You are the person that turns everything into a battle and get personal. If I avoid/ignore you or "bow out" from threads is because I find you unreasonable and disrespectful. Threads that I see as an interesting topic including discussion with knowledgeable people turns into an annoying mess. Honestly if I didn't love MJJC and some people on this forum, I would have long left MJJC just to avoid you. so I guess you are succeeding in that too. So yay another win for Tygger.

Anyway carry on.

 

[Tygger]

Passy001, that was a rather lazy effort. If it is truly fact, you can easily post every thread and point to the exact post causing the derailment. Hopefully that suggestion will help you and your next attempt will be more successful.

so as you can see you claimed the delay was due to Estate tactics without bothering to learn that the case is waiting for labor commissioner decision for over a year.

Apologies, but, are you now saying that the delay for the deposition was due to “waiting for labor commissioner decision for over a year?”

sigh

You made several accusations which means you would have to prove several statements to be true. You chose one and you chose wrong. I never said the Estate was to blame for the delay despite you pulling those statements out of context. How can that be so? It is so because I stated it was the actions of the opposing lawyers here:

I believe some are supporting Mclain not participating in a deposition because they may believe that is being supportive of the Estate and/or executors. Supporting such inaction is not in Mclain’s best interest if he would prefer to remain a co-executor and/or fans would prefer he remain in his current position.

This has nothing to do with the executors personally or Tohme personally and to imply or believe so is simply incorrect.

The actions of Tohme’s lawyer(s) and the Estate’s lawyer(s) are not particularly original. This is simply opposing lawyers attempting to inconvenience each other whenever and however they can which can prove to be costly. That is neither anti-Estate nor pro-Tohme; it is simply stubbornness by opposing parties.

I mistakenly did not type the word lawyer(s) when referring to the Estate lawyer(s). Allow me to post the FULL posts you pulled from and please note the underlined sentences:

There are many, many tactics used during lawsuits for unnecessary and expensive procrastination. Some tactics are more effective than others.

Mclain not participating in a deposition for health reasons is no longer effective or believable. He will now have to submit or risk losing his extremely lucrative position as co-executor.

I would suggest he submit to the deposition.

Ivy, I have not been following this case however, the case is maybe four/five years old? In that time Mclain was involved in several lucrative projects for the MJ Estate. To suggest a deposition would be stressful is most likely an expensive tactic to prolong the case thereby, draining legal funds for the opposing side. It also drains estate funds.

It is in Mclain's best interest, I believe, to submit to the deposition or he will risk losing an extremely lucrative position.

This tactic by the estate has worked for some time however, this tactic by Tohme's laywer(s) trumps the estate's tactic. This case has to end at some point in time and this will help.

I never said he should, I said he could. HUGE difference.

laughs

See the above posts in full. The FULL remainder of your somewhat humorous post is nothing more than a simple rant used to backtrack and distract from your own tweet in which you agreed with me. So much resistance over an agreement with me. Indeed.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, don't even bother with Tygger. You know his modus operandi in every thread where the estate is party.
Common sense flies out of the window when executors names are brought in. The hate towards them is so strong that it actually blinds Tygger's ability to think.

"I would suggest he participate in the deposition as this is an unnecessary drain of estate funds."

I have not come across Tygger's worries over estate funds when family spends millions on unnecessary trial and other things, and the estate has to pay costs:doh:


I personally think if this is tactics from the executors, go for it.
We saw it in AEG trial that both sides went dirty when it comes to that they might win or save losing money.
If this is what is required to not lose millions to Tohme, I'm ok with it.
If McClain is seriously that ill, he is right to put his health first. When he accepted executors position in MJ's estate, he didn't sign for it at cost of his life.
Understandable.

I'm not even sure the question is whether McClain has to resign as executor. I think it is more like Tohme calling out McClain saying that this is his tactic and should step down if he is that bad, thus as many pointed out already - bullying.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, what was this about:
01/08/2015 Miscellaneous-Other (CO-EXECUTORS' REPLY TO TOHME'S OPPOSITION TO DEMURRER )

Executors filed demurrer regarding this case and Tohme filed opposition to it?
Do we know what was that demurrer about?

This McClain issue,whether judge is going to allow Branca act alone in Tohme case is going to be heard on 29th by judge?
Hearing on Petition( 9630 PETITION MOTION TO LIFT STAY ON ALL ISSUES 730 EVALUATION)

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, what was this about:
01/08/2015 Miscellaneous-Other (CO-EXECUTORS' REPLY TO TOHME'S OPPOSITION TO DEMURRER )

Executors filed demurrer regarding this case and Tohme filed opposition to it?
Do we know what was that demurrer about?

Estate filed a 9630 motion (allowing to Branca pursue the case alone) and Tohme filed opposition to it. Estate filed a demurrer saying Tohme has no standing in an 9630 motion, it's between Executors and the Court. Court said unique circumstances gave Tohme standing to object.

This McClain issue,whether judge is going to allow Branca act alone in Tohme case is going to be heard on 29th by judge?
Hearing on Petition( 9630 PETITION MOTION TO LIFT STAY ON ALL ISSUES 730 EVALUATION)

Yes. 9630 petition is about allowing Branca act alone. 730 evaluation is a medical evaluation. I'm not sure if we'll get a final decision on 29th. For example as for 730 evaluation on January 15th Judge ordered Weitzman to ask McClain if he'll submit to a health evaluation. On January 29th Weitzman is supposed tell the court what McClain's answer is. so depending on the answer this process might require multiple hearings, reports etc. before there's a final decision.

edited to add: oh and "motion to lift stay" is about court's stay decision to wait for labor commissioner decision. now Tohme also wants to lift the stay meaning put the case on calendar. Court will ask labor commissioner when they will make a decision before making a final order. Neverland finder's fee is going to be put on calendar. management deals is waiting for labor commissioner decision.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Estate filed a 9630 motion (allowing to Branca pursue the case alone) and Tohme filed opposition to it. Estate filed a demurrer saying Tohme has no standing in an 9630 motion, it's between Executors and the Court. Court said unique circumstances gave Tohme standing to object.



Yes. 9630 petition is about allowing Branca act alone. 730 evaluation is a medical evaluation. I'm not sure if we'll get a final decision on 29th. For example as for 730 evaluation on January 15th Judge ordered Weitzman to ask McClain if he'll submit to a health evaluation. On January 29th Weitzman is supposed tell the court what McClain's answer is. so depending on the answer this process might require multiple hearings, reports etc. before there's a final decision.

Whats Tohme's point anyway with this little pestering McClain? The case doesn't go forward before LB makes decision, and If Labour commissioner agrees with the estate, then Tohme gets nothing.

Then again, I was looking at Tohme's case against the estate and the latest from that case
01/15/2015 at 08:32 am in Department 51, Mitchell L. Beckloff, Presiding
Trial Setting Conference ( Motion to Lift Stay) - Continued by Court

So there is possibility that if LB doesn't give positive outcome to the estate, trial is ahead as seeming;y they have hearing about it?

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Whats Tohme's point anyway with this little pestering McClain? The case doesn't go forward before LB makes decision, and If Labour commissioner agrees with the estate, then Tohme gets nothing.

Then again, I was looking at Tohme's case against the estate and the latest from that case
01/15/2015 at 08:32 am in Department 51, Mitchell L. Beckloff, Presiding
Trial Setting Conference ( Motion to Lift Stay) - Continued by Court

So there is possibility that if LB doesn't give positive outcome to the estate, trial is ahead as seeming;y they have hearing about it?

there are two cases Tohme vs Estate - about unpaid fees and Estate vs Tohme - about missing money and property. As the cases are related, they are somewhat combined in regards to discovery and such. Tohme vs Estate is waiting labor commissioner decision, Estate vs. Tohme is somewhat ongoing. And around October or so Tohme brought up putting Tohme vs. Estate case back on calendar. Court has been continuing that issue (meaning not making a decision) because they have been waiting for the decision by labor commissioner. They said the decision will come in 90 days etc but that time has passed. On Jan 15, 2015 probate court asked the lawyers to give them the contact details and the court / judge himself will contact labor commissioner and ask when they would finalize their decision. All the hearings / briefs etc were completed in front of labor commissioner by October / November 2013. So for the last 14 months Tohme vs. Estate is on a standstill because of Labor Commissioner.

As for the trial, there are 3 agreements at issue here. Neverland finders fee - which gives Tohme 10% from any and every transaction related to Neverland. And then there are 2 business / manager agreements between Tohme - MJ. The issue in front of Labor Commissioner is based on Talent Act which says only certain people with certain credentials can be a manager / agent. during hearings Labor Commisioner said while they believe the 2 business/manager agreements fall under their jurisdiction, Neverland finders fee agreement probably doesn't. So based on that info probate court had already lifted the stay on Neverland finders fee agreement. But still doesn't know what to do about the other 2 agreements. Like I said court will directly contact labor commissioner.

so in short I think we'll see at least one trial in this regard and more possible.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Sorry Ivy if I have asked this before, but this case has been going on for ages so that I don't necessary remember all the details
What this bit means?
"So based on that info probate court had already lifted the stay on Neverland finders fee agreement."

Well theoretically speaking when McCalin appointes him as his successor and Prince agrees that he wants to do it.

I think it would not a good idea, then Prince really has his family in his neck.

Yeah, I don't think it is good idea for Prince to be executor. Advisor yes, but that is it. He doesn't need that burden that family comes to ask his permission to put Michael's face on the Mr Pink bottle or for other possible catastrophic business ideas. The estate needs to be run professionals and Michael legacy in their mind.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^

that means the dispute about the Neverland finders fee will be heard by the court. Tohme is asking for 10% ($2M+) from the 2008 Colony deal, he also claims he is entitled to 10% from any future sale etc.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Will this every end?

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^

that means the dispute about the Neverland finders fee will be heard by the court. Tohme is asking for 10% ($2M+) from the 2008 Colony deal, he also claims he is entitled to 10% from any future sale etc.

Does that "heard by court" mean that it will go to trial, or heard and decided by probate judge?

 

[Tygger]

Bubs, thanks for bringing humor to the discussion as it did not take very long before you expressed your distaste for the Jacksons family as you often, and I repeat, often do. It does seem that you do have an understanding however that there are often tactics used by opposing lawyers simply to inconvenience each other and drain funds.

Should be interesting to see what Mclain’s decision is.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Does that "heard by court" mean that it will go to trial, or heard and decided by probate judge?

depends. both a trial by a judge and trial by jury is a possibility.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It didn't take long, see Modus Operandi

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^

that means the dispute about the Neverland finders fee will be heard by the court. Tohme is asking for 10% ($2M+) from the 2008 Colony deal, he also claims he is entitled to 10% from any future sale etc.

Ivy in the bold why does he feel he is entitled future sale also is he?

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy in the bold why does he feel he is entitled future sale also is he?

because of the finder's fee agreement. He claims he is entitled to 10% from Neverland 2008 refinancing and 10% from any future transaction about Neverland. so that would make $2.3 Million for 2008 and 10% from any future sale.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

The labor commissioner is certainly taking his sweet time. 3 moths is OK. but 14 months? that's overdone. if he's taking that long that could mean that either he's clueless about what to decide or he's lost interest midway or he's suffered some kind of illness. should be interesting to see his feedback.

 

[Victory22]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It didn't take long, see Modus Operandi

:yes:

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Labor commissioner told the court that they don't have a decision yet and they can't tell when they'll have a decision.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thanks ivy. do they say why? backlog of cases etc. is it that techniqual a case or is it cause its mike

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^^

"I apologize to the court but regrettably I must advise you that the determination in the above referenced matter is still in process and has not been completed. The determination is being worked on and expected to be finished in the near future. However due to uncertainties affecting the finalization and approval of these determinations I cannot provide you with a date certain for its completion. I will apprise the court immediately upon the issuance of determination"

edited to add

Judge first asked on October 6th and got a response saying the decision would come within 60-90 days.
Judge asked it a second time on Jan 16th and got the above response.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^^

"I apologize to the court but regrettably I must advise you that the determination in the above referenced matter is still in process and has not been completed. The determination is being worked on and expected to be finished in the near future. However due to uncertainties affecting the finalization and approval of these determinations I cannot provide you with a date certain for its completion. I will apprise the court immediately upon the issuance of determination"

edited to add

Judge first asked on October 6th and got a response saying the decision would come within 60-90 days.
Judge asked it a second time on Jan 16th and got the above response.

he needs to be more specific as to what is holding him up. his statement is just too vague.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thanks ivy. sounds like they are making excuses. vague aint the word!

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Yep that what it look like to me excuses excuses.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It is annoying as hell that these cases are not going forward but are stand still for ages:no:

I don't think it is due to excuses. I suppose, to them this is complex case, but to us (fans) it is clear cut case- ruling in favour to the estate. I think they (LC) want to be extra careful because whatever they rule, is going to generate tons of media attention, so they want to be sure they do everything right.


Ivy,in case LB goes off the wall and rules in Tohme's favour, what can the estate do to avoid any payments to Tohme?

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It is annoying as hell that these cases are not going forward but are stand still for ages:no:

I don't think it is due to excuses. I suppose, to them this is complex case, but to us (fans) it is clear cut case- ruling in favour to the estate. I think they (LC) want to be extra careful because whatever they rule, is going to generate tons of media attention, so they want to be sure they do everything right.


Ivy,in case LB goes off the wall and rules in Tohme's favour, what can the estate do to avoid any payments to Tohme?

You are right in the bold. As for if it is ruled in Tohme favor i do not think the Estate can avoid not paying him that is imo this is what Ivy mention in her post in the bold part below maybe that a answer to your question i could be wrong.

because of the finder's fee agreement. He claims he is entitled to 10% from Neverland 2008 refinancing and 10% from any future transaction about Neverland. so that would make $2.3 Million for 2008 and 10% from any future sale.

 

[HIStory]

Hollywood Docket: Michael Jackson's Ex-Manager Revives Neverland Ranch Dispute
11:56 AM PST 2/9/2015 by Austin Siegemund-Broka


Neverland Ranch
The legal conflict between Michael Jackson's estate and his former manager Tohme Tohme will return to court following a judge’s decision to partially end a two-year stay on the case.

The estate, now run by entertainment lawyer John Branca and longtime music executive John McClain, and Tohme filed dueling lawsuits against each other in 2012. The cases dispute whether Tohme’s efforts in the final few years of Jackson's life were to launch a comeback for the troubled star or enrich himself at the King of Pop's expense.

Tohme claims in his complaint that he became the late singer’s manager in mid-2008, following his alleged intervention in a dispute Jackson found himself in with a sheikh of Bahrain. He claims that in the time before the singer’s death in June 2009, he performed services for Jackson including overseeing his deal for the proposed "This Is It" tour and securing a loan to prevent foreclosure on his Neverland Ranch home. He says he’s entitled to a 15% commission on Jackson's revenue during that time plus a finder's fee for the Neverland deal.
The estate’s attorneys tell a different story. They claim Tohme manipulated Jackson into agreements that gave him "unfair financial compensation" and that Jackson fired him in March 2009.

But weeks after the complaints were filed, the estate’s attorneys filed a motion to stay — put on hold — the entire case. They contended that the California Labor Commission first had to rule on whether Tohme's work violated the Talent Agencies Act, a controversial law that says only licensed talent agents can secure employment for clients.

The stay was granted in its entirety, and it's been in place until a couple weeks ago. The Labor Commission heard the case nearly a year ago but still hasn't made a ruling. Tohme's attorneys filed to lift the entire stay, arguing the "extraordinary delay" warranted reviving the case. Alternatively, they requested at least the Neverland dispute reenter the court because securing a real estate investment isn't covered by the TAA. In hearings over the past two weeks, Los Angeles Superior Court judge Mitchell L. Beckloff agreed to lift the stay on only the issue of Neverland. The rest of the case awaits the Commission's decision.

"We’re very happy the court ruled that Dr. Tohme's claim based on his obtaining the financing to save Neverland can go forward," Tohme's attorney James Curry tells The Hollywood Reporter. He says he'll file a motion for summary judgment on the Neverland claim on Tuesday for a hearing scheduled for April 27.

"I think the lifting of the stay is appropriate, and we’ll just proceed forward with a narrower task," the estate's attorney Howard Weitzman tells THR. He adds that the estate's attorneys plan to complete more discovery before filing new motions.

The commission is expected to issue its decision soon on the other matters. Judge Beckloff set a trial for next year for the entire case, but he noted the date is "very premature" given the uncertainty of the Commission's timing.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/hollywood-docket-michael-jacksons-manager-770709

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It seems Tohme's lawyer(s) was successful in ending a two-year inconvenience on a portion of the case.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^^

That's not "new" news though. If you check my posts in the previous page you'll see that I said the court lifted the stay on Neverland issue as Labor commissioner said it does not fall under their authority. and both parties agreed to lift the stay on neverland issue. The only new info is the dates of the upcoming motions and such.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, I did not see your previous post but, the public has now been made aware of the issue. I understand you are also most likely responding to the article Respect77 posted. (I posted this article as well in the thread regarding the sale of NL.)

Tis good news some portion of the case can continue and not be mired in an inconvenience.