MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

And the lawyers get richer. cheers ivy

 

[Bubs]

Ivy, thanks for your post on your blog. Unbelievable!!!!!

First of, I has to laugh at Weitzman referring Tohme as Doc Holliday because Tohme's fake credentials and lack of education
-----------------------------

"Weitzman (Estate lawyer): Estate was bankrupt when Michael died. Our first meeting involved “What assets shall we sell? How are we going to do this?” Hayvenhurst was being foreclosed on. And the only money available was in Mr. Tohme’s possession. He had it. I can tell you the conversations I had with Mr. Tohme. And I remember him putting off meetings and putting off meetings. I remember the letter from John Branca. I remember saying to him in the letter, “Hey, If you don’t give us the money, we are going to have to go to court”.

They did a good job without selling any assets.
---------------------------------------------------

"Now at that time Mr. Modabber is going to get to this in just a moment, at that time the money was in Mr. Tohme’s personal savings account. Michael had terminated him. And he chose to not believe it, as you can see. But Michael had terminated Mr. Tohme in April. And there are letters that went to him in May to return the money. But he was fighting to stay in as Michael’s manager. And he has, I guess, the right to do that, fight to stay in, even though there was another manager was appointed. When Michael died he still had the money. We also learned early on that Mr. Tohme had personal property that belonged to Michael Jackson that we didn’t think he should have."

That bastard somehow managed to take the money from MJ's account and put it into his own account, despite Sony having caught Tohme earlier and refused to put any money Tohme's account! Unreal!!!
-----------------------------

"Zia Modabber (Estate lawyer): At least he (Tohme) had originally directed that $5 Million from Sony go into that personal savings account. Sony caught it and said “We aren’t doing that, we aren’t sending money to your personal savings account”. Their(Tohme and his lawyers) explanation was Michael Jackson, who unfortunately isn’t here to respond, “Michael told me to put in my personal savings account”. (That transfer) doesn’t happen. The next couple of transfers, they do somehow go into his personal savings account. And we find out only because, they didn’t tell us in their responses, they didn’t tell us anywhere else. We happened to stumble upon a piece of paper and issued a subpoena. We would not know but for the 850 motion he took a million and half dollar and comingled it with his own personal savings."

It doesn't sound like Michael wanted his money to go on Tohme's personal bank account because this is what he said to June G:
MJ: "I know it’s not good. I don’t like it. I wanna get somebody in there with him that I know and trust. … I don’t know what’s in my accounts. I don’t know."

--------------------------------------

"Zia Modabber (Estate lawyer): Early on in these proceedings, you (the court) asked “what do you have?” Because Mr. Malingagio had been standing up saying “Your honor, they smeared the good name of my client. They’ve accused of him of all of these things”. What I said to you was, it was very early on before we had done all our investigation, here’s what we know. In 1999 he had gone though a bankruptcy. He had come out with nothing. And everything we learned since then shows he didn’t have a job or gainful employment or have any assets until he met Mr. Jackson. And around the time he met Mr. Jackson, he bought multimillion dollar homes and started driving Bentleys.

:bugeyed

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Cheers for that bubs. what was the five mill from sony for

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It doesn't say why Sony was sending money to MJ - perhaps royalties or his share of catalogue income?

You'd better read the whole lot from Ivy's blog because what I posted is not the whole thing
https://twitter.com/Ivy_4MJ/with_replies
Link to the blog on first.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Cheers for that bubs. what was the five mill from sony for

Thriller 25.

Exact amount isn't known. Tohme turned over $5.5 Million. Bodyguards claimed it was about $12 Million. Modabber is now on record saying Sony did multiple transfers.

You'd better read the whole lot from Ivy's blog because what I posted is not the whole thing

You can copy and post it here. I had to run out and did not have the time to post it here and I posted McClain deposition exclusively here. I was planning on posting the rest later tonight. We can now post and share stuff here. and actually we formed a partnership.

What stood out to me was actually Tohme's own lawyer saying no one was aware of the $5.5 Million from Sony - Tohme's lawyer saying "What Mr. Weitzman did not state is that nobody knew the $5.5 Million existed.". Why would no one know about it? Why wouldn't accountants, assistants, other managers wouldn't know it? That sounds sketchy to me.

The rest to Tohme's credit is just an allegation , speculation at this point.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

And this is the guy Jermaine brought to Michael. Makes me wonder how much money did Jermaine make for doing this?

 

[Bubs]

Thanks Ivy.

Here is the whole lot, but for reference it is easier to read in Ivy's blog.

Transcript of a January 29, 2015 proceedings shows how the MJ Estate vs. Tohme lawsuits are getting more and more heated. Below you will find sections of what the lawyers have said during a January 29 hearing to the judge.

First the issue of whether Tohme is a “doctor” or “mister” was raised.

Howard Weitzman (Estate lawyer): I make a point out of referring to Mr. Tohme as “Mr. Tohme” because he’s not a doctor. You (the court) actually asked Mr. Malingagio if it was appropriate to refer to him as “doctor” or “mister” and he responded to you “doctor”. He’s not a doctor, unless he or Mr. Malingagio want to get up and represent he is a doctor. Now maybe he is Dr. J, or he is Doc Rivers or he is Doc Brown from “Back to the future” but he’s not a doctor by degree.
Weitzman continues to explain in the interrogatories they asked Tohme to list all of the schools he attended and the degrees he received.

Weitzman (Estate lawyer): Tohme responds as follows “Tohme attended several colleges and quit to pursue self education.” Bachelorette – or however you pronounce it- Institute of Al Masri Beirut Lebanon was the school attended. He got that degree, which by the way is an equivalent of a high school degree. Pepperdine University, 1972 No degree. Cal State University at Los Angeles 1973 No degree. Glendale City College 1974 No degree. Now nothing wrong with failing to get a degree. Nothing wrong with going to junior college, or Pepperdine or Cal State. Nothing wrong with any of that. Not a doctor, again unless you know you are Doc Holliday, not a doctor.
Tohme’s lawyer responds :

Mr. Malingagio (Tohme’s lawyer): You asked me “is it mister or doctor?” I said “doctor”. I’ve known Dr. Tohme for 5 years. I never called him anything other than Dr. Tohme or Tohme. That’s how I refer to him. That’s what I meant when I responded to your honor.
Later on the discussion turns the money Tohme had in his possession when Michael died.

Weitzman (Estate lawyer): Estate was bankrupt when Michael died. Our first meeting involved “What assets shall we sell? How are we going to do this?” Hayvenhurst was being foreclosed on. And the only money available was in Mr. Tohme’s possession. He had it. I can tell you the conversations I had with Mr. Tohme. And I remember him putting off meetings and putting off meetings. I remember the letter from John Branca. I remember saying to him in the letter, “Hey, If you don’t give us the money, we are going to have to go to court”.


Now at that time Mr. Modabber is going to get to this in just a moment, at that time the money was in Mr. Tohme’s personal savings account. Michael had terminated him. And he chose to not believe it, as you can see. But Michael had terminated Mr. Tohme in April. And there are letters that went to him in May to return the money. But he was fighting to stay in as Michael’s manager. And he has, I guess, the right to do that, fight to stay in, even though there was another manager was appointed. When Michael died he still had the money. We also learned early on that Mr. Tohme had personal property that belonged to Michael Jackson that we didn’t think he should have.
Another Estate lawyer Zia Modabber joins to the discussion to explain more about the situation.

Zia Modabber (Estate lawyer): Early on in these proceedings, you (the court) asked “what do you have?” Because Mr. Malingagio had been standing up saying “Your honor, they smeared the good name of my client. They’ve accused of him of all of these things”. What I said to you was, it was very early on before we had done all our investigation, here’s what we know. In 1999 he had gone though a bankruptcy. He had come out with nothing. And everything we learned since then shows he didn’t have a job or gainful employment or have any assets until he met Mr. Jackson. And around the time he met Mr. Jackson, he bought multimillion dollar homes and started driving Bentleys.

In a response to that Mr. Malingagio said to you the following “wait a minute, what are they saying about my client? You filed bankruptcy in 1999. We told them and they know because they have the papers, that was an involuntary bankruptcy filed against somebody whose name was different than Tohme’s and it was summarily dismissed in 1999. In other words, the case of mistaken identity”.

Over summarily? Not quite. It was a four year slog through the bankruptcy court where Mr. Tohme , the findings of fact of the judge were that he had manipulated and an extraordinary case of manipulating the bankruptcy system, had lied repeatedly and violated court orders.

Let me give you a taste of it. The bankruptcy was an involuntary Chapter 7. Involuntary means a third party creditor. A1 Collections put Mr. Tohme in bankruptcy. A1 Collections the Court found is actually Mr.Tohme himself because he was being sued by multiple creditors; one a bank who I believe was accusing him of fraud. And he wanted to take advantage of the bankruptcy stay. So he put himself into an involuntary bankruptcy and when he did so he deliberately misspelled his name. He spelled – these are all findings of the bankruptcy court – he spelled his name as Tohmme instead of Tohme. And he altered his social security number. And the judge concluded that he did that because when he longer wanted to be in the bankruptcy and gotten what he had wanted from the stay he could say “that’s not me, case of mistaken identity”. That’s exactly what he did. And he judge caught him on it and wrote the order and the findings and fact he wrote.
Then Zia Modabber explains what they know about the money that was in Tohme’s possession.

Zia Modabber: We served an interrogatory saying “identify each and every bank account into and out of which Michael Jackson’s money went though”. They very carefully responded in a through answer as you can provide. Every bank account, I believe there were 16 of them, with the address for every bank and with the account number for every one of them. Unfortunately what they missed is that somehow amongst the tens of thousands of pages of documents that were produced there was this one piece of paper, a deposit slip. And we were working with a consultant on these bank accounts and trying to get all of the bank statements and figure out what had gone on.
Modabber explains the process they had to go though to get a subpoena and see that account which turns out to be Tohme’s personal savings account. He later adds:

Zia Modabber (Estate lawyer): At least he (Tohme) had originally directed that $5 Million from Sony go into that personal savings account. Sony caught it and said “We aren’t doing that, we aren’t sending money to your personal savings account”. Their(Tohme and his lawyers) explanation was Michael Jackson, who unfortunately isn’t here to respond, “Michael told me to put in my personal savings account”. (That transfer) doesn’t happen. The next couple of transfers, they do somehow go into his personal savings account. And we find out only because, they didn’t tell us in their responses, they didn’t tell us anywhere else. We happened to stumble upon a piece of paper and issued a subpoena. We would not know but for the 850 motion he took a million and half dollar and comingled it with his own personal savings.
Tohme’s lawyer responds

Mr. Malingagio (Tohme’s lawyer): The $5.5 million. What Mr. Weitzman did not state is that nobody knew the $5.5 Million existed. My client, Dr. Tohme, came forward directly after Michael’s death and identified the fact he had the money and explored the possibilities of what is he going to do with that money. He raised it with the Estate. He told them it existed. Got a pretty nasty demand letter from Mr. Weitzman about turning over the money and in fact he did turn over the money. That was the first moneys that the Estate had. The 850 petition and the personal property. I heard a lot of really unpleasant things about my client. A lot of speculation. A lot of hearsay and conclusions drawn from documents they read. What are their allegations? A bankruptcy was filed. He bought a house, he bought a car. That is all they say. There’s not one allegation that any of those assets were purchased with Michael Jackson’s money. I have still not heard one statement that he has any money belonging to Michael Jackson, nor any property. Nor have I ever received since this lawsuit was filed a demand to return any property that after their years and years of investigation they claim. And if they find something, if there’s something we missed, or if they think there is something, send me a letter. Call me up on the phone “Hey we think your client might have this or that. Does he? Let’s talk about it”. Not once they have said that.
Also in one comment Tohme’s lawyer Malingagio questions why these topics were brought up during the hearing and says “I don’t know, maybe there are people from the press here that he (Weitzman) wants those people to hear what he had to say. I don’t know”. Weitzman on the other hand has explained his reasoning to bring up these issues as “Last week there were two things that happened that disturbed me personally. I would like the opportunity to put it in the record”.

Despite Malingagio’s concerns this hearing wasn’t reported by the press however the transcript of the proceedings was added to a motion of protective order filed on March 18, 2015 making it accessible by the fans and public. In this post I provided what both sides said and rather than writing a summary I opted to provide their exact words for fair reporting. For the time being these are just claims which aren’t proven or decided either way. Every reader would form their own opinions. In the future, we will probably see more specific information about these claims. It also looks like as the case progresses, it would get more and more interesting.

http://dailymichael.com/lawsuits/estate-v-tohme/295-claws-are-out-in-mj-estate-vs-tohme-lawsuits

 

[Bubs]

TMZ posted this bit the time when he returned the money:
"In an interview last night, Dr. Tohme said the money came from recording residuals and that "It was a secret between Michael and me."
Dr. Tohme claims the money was going to be used for a Las Vegas "dream home."
Tohme says Michael implored him, "Don't tell anyone about the money." He says when the singer died, he came forward and said he had the stash."

I would be interested to know whether the estate asked Sony to produce some sort of accounting as how much they paid altogether to MJ and if the estate lawyers could track how much money went to MJ and how much to Tohme's own pockets?

-----------------------------------
"My client, Dr. Tohme, came forward directly after Michael’s death and identified the fact he had the money and explored the possibilities of what is he going to do with that money."

Tohme was sitting on that money whole month before he came out with info that he has that money.

-------------------------

"What stood out to me was actually Tohme's own lawyer saying no one was aware of the $5.5 Million from Sony - Tohme's lawyer saying "What Mr. Weitzman did not state is that nobody knew the $5.5 Million existed.". Why would no one know about it? Why wouldn't accountants, assistants, other managers wouldn't know it? That sounds sketchy to me. "

It is as sketchy and scary say to least. I cannot help but going back on what MJ said to June G in Sept 2008:
On the tapes, "This guy, he just... has ways about him... There's a divide between me and my representatives and I don't talk to my lawyer, my accountant. I talk to him and he talks to them. I don't like it. I wanna get somebody in there with him that I know and can trust. I don't know what's in my accounts”.

---------------------------

"Michael had terminated him. And he chose to not believe it, as you can see. But Michael had terminated Mr. Tohme in April. And there are letters that went to him in May to return the money.

Ivy, does your documents say who sent those letters in May and asking Tohme to return the money?

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

This has gone on for years. I see nothing more than lawyers continuing to inconvenience each other so as not to be perceived as conceding to the other side.

The only beneficiaries here are the lawyers involved which is unfortunate for the Estate's actual beneficiaries.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thanks ivy,bubs

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I would be interested to know whether the estate asked Sony to produce some sort of accounting as how much they paid altogether to MJ and if the estate lawyers could track how much money went to MJ and how much to Tohme's own pockets?

I imagine they did ask Sony for accounting. But it wouldn't be that easy to track money and where he went. For example assume some money went into Tohme's personal account and he said took this much as cash and gave it to MJ to spend. How would you know if that actually happened or if Tohme took out the cash and spent it himself? That's the problem with commingling two funds.

Ivy, does your documents say who sent those letters in May and asking Tohme to return the money?

No it doesn't say. I would assume Dileo though.

 

[Bubs]

I imagine they did ask Sony for accounting. But it wouldn't be that easy to track money and where he went. For example assume some money went into Tohme's personal account and he said took this much as cash and gave it to MJ to spend. How would you know if that actually happened or if Tohme took out the cash and spent it himself? That's the problem with commingling two funds.

God knows how much of money Tohme funnelled to his own accounts.
I was reading and re-reading this bit:
"Zia Modabber (Estate lawyer): At least he (Tohme) had originally directed that $5 Million from Sony go into that personal savings account. Sony caught it and said “We aren’t doing that, we aren’t sending money to your personal savings account”. Their(Tohme and his lawyers) explanation was Michael Jackson, who unfortunately isn’t here to respond, “Michael told me to put in my personal savings account”. (That transfer) doesn’t happen. The next couple of transfers, they do somehow go into his personal savings account. And we find out only because, they didn’t tell us in their responses, they didn’t tell us anywhere else. We happened to stumble upon a piece of paper and issued a subpoena. We would not know but for the 850 motion he took a million and half dollar and comingled it with his own personal savings."

So the estate got back that 5 million, but what about that million and half that is mentioned at the end of the paragraph? It doesn't seem to be part of the 5 million that he returned, more like it is separate amount of money that he tried to hide in his own account but the estate attorneys discovered it later on?


This case is getting interesting now that we can read what both sides are saying.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

wrong thread

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

there's a hearing set for tomorrow at Tohme about Neverland finder's fee

I did a summary here : http://dailymichael.com/lawsuits/es...tate-neverland-finder-s-fee-april-2015-update

feel free to copy portion here for discussion.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thanks ivy as always for the fantastic summary.
Tohme is trying to pull a fast one. He obviously does not want anymore investigation of the issue. seriously, him charging MJ 100 times more than customary is just plain unacceptable. and he can't offer a good defense for it. This is clearly taking advantage of MJ distress.
should be interesting to see what the judge has to say about that.

 

[Bubs]

Thanks Ivy for summary.

"For most of their motion Estate uses Tohme’s testimony in Labor Commissioner hearing. In that testimony Tohme states he became MJ’s manager around January – February 2008 (this is contrary to the timeline presented before)."

He just cannot stop lying. How could he be MJ's manager in Jan-Feb 2008, if Jermaine introduced him to MJ in April, and if needed, the estate attorneys can drag Jermaine sorry arse to testify this.

"(Note: In an interesting tidbit, in his testimony Tohme also states “I was sitting on $20 Million of his (MJ) money”.)"

Is there anything else about that? What happen to it?

"(Note : Tohme claims MJ worked with him until his passing in June 2009)"

That is so strange claim. Didn't MJ officially terminated him in May 5th and he said in one interview, he saw MJ rehearsals in staples center, which must have been 2 days before his died, and he was in the hospital too. Scary man:bugeyed

"Tohme argues Estate cannot prove some of their claims as MJ is deceased and Estate is speculating about his mindset about certain situations such as they cannot prove if MJ was unhappy with the deal or not."

I wonder if the estate lawyers use that June G recorded tape conversation with MJ about Tohme as evidence to show MJ didn't trust or wasn't happy about his dealings?

"For the fee amount Tohme is supposed to receive, Tohme states it’s not a regular situation and mentions complexity of the situation. "

I wonder what he considers complex? He knew MJ's NL issue, went to talk to his "close friend", so justification high fee is not flying.
This is quote from his interview with AP
"Tohme said he helped negotiate a deal with his close friend, the chairman of Colony Capital, who was hesitant to get involved until he was persuaded to go visit Jackson in person. Impressed by Jackson’s “intelligence and focus,” Colony agreed to buy the mortgage on the home and keep it out of foreclosure."

He is such a creep!

 

[ivy]

"For the fee amount Tohme is supposed to receive, Tohme states it’s not a regular situation and mentions complexity of the situation. "

I wonder what he considers complex? He knew MJ's NL issue, went to talk to his "close friend", so justification high fee is not flying.
This is quote from his interview with AP
"Tohme said he helped negotiate a deal with his close friend, the chairman of Colony Capital, who was hesitant to get involved until he was persuaded to go visit Jackson in person. Impressed by Jackson’s “intelligence and focus,” Colony agreed to buy the mortgage on the home and keep it out of foreclosure."!

That's exactly Estate argues. The only thing Tohme did was to introduce MJ to his personal friend Barrack. It's not like jhe had to go out and try to find financing or talked with multiple people .

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Makes u wonder if barack sent thome and not the other way around

 

[Bubs]

That's exactly Estate argues. The only thing Tohme did was to introduce MJ to his personal friend Barrack. It's not like jhe had to go out and try to find financing or talked with multiple people .

That was some expensive introduction ($3.5 to $3.9 Million)
-------------------------------------------

"Tohme states in his testimony that he had total control of MJ’s life and business deals. Tohme states he hired and fired people. (He also states MJ asked him 3 times to fire Michael Amir Williams but he didn’t). "

??? If MJ tells his people to fire someone, aren't they supposed to do so? Why Tohme wanted to keep MAW there if MJ didn't? He fired Grace R a few times, but MJ hired her back. No wonder MJ was freaked out if his staff doing what they want?

Makes u wonder if barack sent thome and not the other way around

How is Jermaine introducing Tohme to MJ in May 2008 fit in to picture?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So mj asked him three times to fire amir? if thats the case dont u think mj would ask thome err how cone hes still around? Its all very strange. one thing we know is thome is a sleeze.


bubs maybe jerk was thomes way in. he knew him so barack tells thome and he uses jerk as his leverage to get to mj

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

If I understand this correctly, the Estate never stated the fee should not be paid. They stated the fee is high in their view and Tohme did not perform certain activities in the manner they preferred.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

If I understand this correctly, the Estate never stated the fee should not be paid. They stated the fee is high in their view and Tohme did not perform certain activities in the manner they preferred.

well they are trying to void the finder's fee agreement which to me means they don't want to pay anything.

------------------------------------

04/27/2015 at 08:30 am in Department 51, Mitchell L. Beckloff, Presiding
Motion for Summary Adjudication - Denied

Court denied Tohme's motion. Which to me isn't that surprising, I expected the court to give Estate time for discovery and probably reconsider this motion after discovery. I'll post the details of the order when it becomes available at the system. (can take several weeks)

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

well they are trying to void the finder's fee agreement which to me means they don't want to pay anything.

There are a few assumptions being made about Michael's reasoning that may be difficult for the Estate to support.

We shall see.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

There are a few assumptions being made about Michael's reasoning that may be difficult for the Estate to support.

We shall see.

True but then again there's an audio of MJ expressing his concerns about Tohme.

and this doesn't solely rely on assumptions about MJ's mindset. If the Plainfied offer was as good or better than CC offer and if Tohme also received a fee from CC that could be enough to demonstrate a problem. and that's why discovery was needed and warranted.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

True but then again there's an audio of MJ expressing his concerns about Tohme.

Where? Is there a transcript?

and this doesn't solely rely on assumptions about MJ's mindset. If the Plainfied offer was as good or better than CC offer and if Tohme also received a fee from CC that could be enough to demonstrate a problem. and that's why discovery was needed and warranted.

The Estate has to show it is more likely than not that there was an oral contract between Michael and Tohme early 2008. They can show Tohme performed managerial services for Michael during that time and would receive delayed payment. The signed contract between Michael and Tohme is July 2008. I do not remember if Tohme received a fee from Colony at this time.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Where? Is there a transcript?

starting from minute 3, you can hear MJ's in his own words.

make sure you listen between minute 2 to minute 5

 

[Tygger]

starting from minute 3, you can hear MJ's in his own words.

make sure you listen between minute 2 to minute 5

Thank you. I am aware Tohme is most likely untrustworthy as Michael terminated him while Tohme worked for Michael and AEG simultaneously. The taped, September 2008 phone call shows Michael did not trust Tohme and he did terminate him in 2009. That call does not discuss the NL deal and/or Tohme’s fee. It also does not say that Michael questioned Tohme not being a doctor and/or being suspicious of Tohme because of his bankruptcy. While those issues - if the Estate can show support of them - may help with the remainder of the claims against Tohme, I do not see how it will prevent the Estate from paying the finder’s fee with interest provided NL is sold.

By the way, if Bubs is correct, Tohme was not Michael’s manager early 2008 as the Estate is suggesting:

"For most of their motion Estate uses Tohme’s testimony in Labor Commissioner hearing. In that testimony Tohme states he became MJ’s manager around January – February 2008 (this is contrary to the timeline presented before)."

He just cannot stop lying. How could he be MJ's manager in Jan-Feb 2008, if Jermaine introduced him to MJ in April, and if needed, the estate attorneys can drag Jermaine sorry arse to testify this.

 

[ivy]

By the way, if Bubs is correct, Tohme was not Michael’s manager early 2008 as the Estate is suggesting:

Could be. Estate is using Tohme's testimony in Labor Commissioner in which he says he became MJ's manager from day 1 in january - february. I wrote that tohme gave a declaration that he did not become a manager until the management agreement was signed in july.

Tohme obviously wants to demonstrate that he wasn't MJ's manager when NL deal was signed and so he didn't have any fiduciary duty towards MJ.

Estate on the other hand is/will probably use Tohme's conflicting testimony to raise doubt that Tohme was acting like a manager "from day 1" before the agreement was signed.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, Tohme is not clear as to what "day one" refers to. If he did not meet Michael until April, he could not have meant the beginning of the year 2008. He could have attempted to impress Michael when introducing him to Barrack and the NL deal in turn led to Tohme becoming Michael's manager in July. I do not know Tohme's meaning however, Tohme being untrustworthy would speak more to some of the other claims the Estate levied I believe.

If the Estate must pay such a fee, it does not mean all other claims against Tohme would be unsuccessful for the Estate. However; with the pending depositions, it seems it will be maybe another year before any resolution.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, Tohme is not clear as to what "day one" refers to.

I'm pretty sure he means it to be the from the first day he met michael - which actually would damage his claim

If the Estate must pay such a fee, it does not mean all other claims against Tohme would be unsuccessful for the Estate.

I don't think anyone thinks like that. The other two agreements are under consideration of labor commissioner so they are obviously being treated as separate stuff.

However; with the pending depositions, it seems it will be maybe another year before any resolution.

given the tentative trial date is May 2016, yeah. Unless Tohme succeeds in his motion, or there's a settlement , we are looking for a 1+ year in this regard.