MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, I did not see your previous post

interesting. you were very active in this thread.

edited to add: oh and "motion to lift stay" is about court's stay decision to wait for labor commissioner decision. now Tohme also wants to lift the stay meaning put the case on calendar. Court will ask labor commissioner when they will make a decision before making a final order. Neverland finder's fee is going to be put on calendar. management deals is waiting for labor commissioner decision.

during hearings Labor Commisioner said while they believe the 2 business/manager agreements fall under their jurisdiction, Neverland finders fee agreement probably doesn't. So based on that info probate court had already lifted the stay on Neverland finders fee agreement. But still doesn't know what to do about the other 2 agreements. Like I said court will directly contact labor commissioner.

so in short I think we'll see at least one trial in this regard and more possible.

that means the dispute about the Neverland finders fee will be heard by the court. Tohme is asking for 10% ($2M+) from the 2008 Colony deal, he also claims he is entitled to 10% from any future sale etc.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

interesting. you were very active in this thread.

Are you sure? I said I did not follow the case and posted only after the news regarding Mclain. You repeated that I did not follow the case several times when you were upset that I agreed (and not the others who agreed) with your tweet that Mclain should submit for a deposition so his position would not be in jeopardy. You can see I only responded to Bubs after our exchange. Still no news on Mclain.

Thanks for reposting your posts. Maybe Hollywood Reporter believed they had more valuable news to report to their readers so they are now reporting that a portion of this case can finally see a resolution. I for one am glad to see at least a portion of the case moving along.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I wasn't talking about following the case or not. it's just interesting that you wouldn't read recent posts in a thread you are/were active. that's all.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, again, I did not see your post previously. No need to take offense and create an unnecessary back and forth.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, what is your take of this NL finders fee issue?
What can the estate lawyers do in order to avoid paying millions to Tohme?

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Ivy, again, I did not see your post previously. No need to take offense and create an unnecessary back and forth.

I didn't take offense as I said it was just interesting. Thank you for telling me what can I post or not post, what will I do without your recommendations?

Ivy, what is your take of this NL finders fee issue?
What can the estate lawyers do in order to avoid paying millions to Tohme?

Honestly I think it's quite tricky. In their initial complaints they stated there were other better possibilities for refinancing. Their best bet would be to argue conflict of interest between Tohme and Colony Capital. That being said I wouldn't surprised if at the end Estate has to pay Tohme something for Neverland Finders fee.

To me the management contract is a lot more important as it means a lot more money.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So basically this is the current issue on the table:
- May 2008 Tohme and Michael signs a finder's agreement for Tohme introducing Michael to Colony Capital.
- Estate alleges that Tohme didn't tell Michael that he had a pre-existing relationship with Colony Capital.
- According to the finder's fee agreement : Michael was to give Tohme 10% of the loan amount ($2.4M), 10% from the future sale of Neverland and 10% from any future transactions with Colony Capital.
- Estate claims Michael didn't have an independent lawyer and signed the finder's fee agreement without fully understanding and getting independent explanation of it.
- Estate says Michael signed the agreement because he trusted Tohme and believed the finder's fee amount was normal and customary. Estate argues that these amounts are too high.
- Estate says Tohme had conflicting roles - working as a finder and working as the manager of Michael.
- Estate states that the Neverland deal done with Colony Capital was highly unfavorable for Michael. It limited his use and control of Neverland and had unfavorable financial terms.
- Estate says as Tohme had ties and interest in regards to Colony Capital, he didn't look for better and more favorable financing options for Neverland. (Estate says that they believe other better options were available)
- Estate says Michael signed the Neverland / Colony Capital agreement without having counsel independent from Tohme and not subject to Tohme's control and authority.
------------------------

If CC sells Neverland, lets say for 50 million, how much would Michael's share be of it?
Whats this bit is: "10% from any future transactions with Colony Capital"
The estate doesn't have any interactions with CC?


If the estate loses this NL case, MJ's estate has to fork out 2.4 million, but the other monies that Tohme wants comes from only if NL is sold?

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Whats this bit is: "10% from any future transactions with Colony Capital"
The estate doesn't have any interactions with CC?

that means Tohme would have gotten money if Michael and/or Estate bought Neverland back from Colony Capital.

My understanding of the finders fee agreement is that Tohme gets 10% (2.4 Million) for refinancing and 10% from any future transaction - whether it is MJ/ Estate buying back Neverland or Neverland being sold.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So that mean that the Estate will not owe Tohme anything because they do not own NL anymore is that right Ivy?

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So that mean that the Estate will not owe Tohme anything because they do not own NL anymore is that right Ivy?

no. right now they owe $2.4Million + 10% from the future sale. We'll see what will happen after the trial. By the end of April we will have better idea of what parties main points are.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thank Ivy got the picture.

 

[Annita]

Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 24 Std. Vor 24 Stunden

In Estate’s probate complaint against Tohme, Estate withdrew their 9630 motion (allowing Branca to act alone).

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So hes agreed to do the depo?

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

So hes agreed to do the depo?

He cannot disagree at this point. Regardless of if it is personal or written, he will have to submit to a deposition.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

He cannot disagree at this point. Regardless of if it is personal or written, he will have to submit to a deposition.

He never refused to summit for a deposition.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I'm one of the posters who said (a few pages back) that I thought McClain should just go ahead and submit for the deposition with his lawyers helping him and maybe a doctor on site. (This is before I knew about all the back and forth motions on it). Granted, it would be better for Branca just to do it himself, but Tohme is really playing hardball here.

Now, I don't want McClain to drop dead or anything-but I personally suffer from really severe anxiety attacks myself and high blood pressure is a result-strokes and heart attacks run in my family and I avoid anything that might bring on attacks-but dreading something like this can make it even worse. That was one of the main reasons I thought he should just go ahead and do it. Get it over with. But make sure you have good lawyers and doctors with you.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Barbee0715, I am glad Mclain will not jeopardize his co-executor position. This case has been mired in inconvenience long enough; time to move towards resolution.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Now, I don't want McClain to drop dead or anything-but I personally suffer from really severe anxiety attacks myself and high blood pressure is a result-strokes and heart attacks run in my family and I avoid anything that might bring on attacks-but dreading something like this can make it even worse. That was one of the main reasons I thought he should just go ahead and do it. Get it over with. But make sure you have good lawyers and doctors with you.

The bolded bit is scary!
Even if there is the whole hospital staff beside him, it does not guarantee he will survive, and if stroke patient survives, there are several implications as a result of stroke.
See statistics for stroke survival rates: http://www.uhnj.org/stroke/stats.htm


As I said before, McClain did not sign for executors position to risk his life. No deposition is that important that he needs to take life threatening risks.


Anyways, this is Tohme trying to slow down the process, as if he didn't get stuck on McClain health issues, the case would be moving ahead. McClain offered to give written deposition, Branca is deposited already, so it is Tohme who is hitting spanner in the works (so to speak).

 

[Bubs]

Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · Feb 14
Exclusive: Selling Neverland was the goal of Colony Capital and MJ all along - http://*****************/lawsuits/e...s-the-goal-of-colony-capital-and-mj-all-along

Go to D a i l y Michael to read docs as links to Ivy's blogs is not allowed here even thou it is only place to get reliable info regarding lawsuits.

Thanks Ivy, an interesting post.
I was wondering that in the first page it say that this document was given to Tohme to be hand delivered to MJ and in it CC says "as you know, Dr Tohme is a consultant for Colony Capital...."

yet the estate says in their claim:
"Estate alleges that Tohme didn't tell Michael that he had a pre-existing relationship with Colony Capital"

If Michael read that letter from CC, he must have known the pre-existing relationship between Tohme and CC?
Then again, that bit also work against Tohme, because there it states that Tohme was working for CC and MJ and most definitely has conflict of interests.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^^

yeah unfortunately I'm not allowed to post many stuff here.

As for your question : yeah it doesn't seem Tohme's connection to colony was such a secret but it does bring the conflict of interest question. similarly tohme claims he hired a lawyer for MJ but how could a lawyer selected (and probably paid by Tohme) could be truly independent? On the other hand I guess Tohme could argue that MJ knew about conflict of interest and was okay with it.

The neverland finder's fee is just starting. So we will be seeing more documents and more information.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^^

yeah unfortunately I'm not allowed to post many stuff here.

As for your question : yeah it doesn't seem Tohme's connection to colony was such a secret but it does bring the conflict of interest question. similarly tohme claims he hired a lawyer for MJ but how could a lawyer selected (and probably paid by Tohme) could be truly independent? On the other hand I guess Tohme could argue that MJ knew about conflict of interest and was okay with it.

The neverland finder's fee is just starting. So we will be seeing more documents and more information.

I wonder if Michael read that document or did Tohme just told him what is in it(leaving out the part that he was consultant to CC) and told MJ to sign it?
I don't think the estate lawyers claim something that they cannot prove, so I'm truly looking forward what else Tohme cooked up and more documents to read.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I wonder if Michael read that document or did Tohme just told him what is in it(leaving out the part that he was consultant to CC) and told MJ to sign it?
I don't think the estate lawyers claim something that they cannot prove, so I'm truly looking forward what else Tohme cooked up and more documents to read.

He just might have done that so he can get the money.

 

[Tygger]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

If that is indeed Michael signature then, he signed the letter stating Tohme was a consultant for Colony.

Tohme also worked with AEG and Michael simultaneously. I believe it was Phillips who testified Michael must have found the conflict acceptable in his view.

Michael eventually terminated Tohme in 2009. I do not know if these conflicts were part of Michael's reasoning.

 

[myosotis]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I Just thought I'd copy this across from the 'Dieter Wiesner' thread in News...if that' OK? I'm wondering if these paintings were gifted by Tohme Tohme to BLS?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27.11.2014

Agreement signed with Brett-Livingstone Strong

Representatives for Artlima AG traveled to Los Angeles California and concluded a successful financing and partnership agreement with Sir Brett-Livingstone Strong. A number of Original paintings done by the legendary late Pop Star Michael Jackson are now under the auspices of Artlima AG.


Mr. Stefan Oberholzer and Mr. Dieter Wiesner met with Mrs. Katherine Jackson, Sir Brett Strong and inspected the art by Michael Jackson. A signed and executed agreement towards an exhibition of the paintings in Monaco in 2015 is currently planned.

http://www.artlima.ch/?p=603

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

A little update: As you might know Neverland Finders Fee agreement issue is put on calendar and almost immediately motions started. Tohme has filed a summary adjucation motion claiming there's no triable issue about Neverland Finder's fee and Tohme is entitled to payment. For the first time we have seen the agreement between Colony Capital and MJ. The next hearing about Neverland Finder's fee is at April 27. We should see Estate's reply late march- early April. So April will be a pretty active month for Finder's Fee issue.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

thanks ivy

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

here we go again

in probate case - in other words Estate's complaint against Tohme- after medical records and declaration from McClain court has decided that McClain has no information in regards to Tohme and MJ. So he won't be deposed. Court also said if Tohme finds evidence to the contrary - something that shows McClain has any information- he can bring another motion and court would reconsider the deposition issue.

as you know neverland finders fee issue in civil case - in other words Tohme's complaint against Estate- has recently been put on calendar. So Tohme again is trying to depose McClain and Estate has filed a protective order motion reminding the judge what had previously happened. Estate is again offering a written deposition and/or asking the court again determine that there's no need for McClain deposition.

Tohme's lawyers have supposedly said they want to depose McClain about MJ's problems with Neverland and if McClain and MJ had an estranged relationship. McClain provided a declaration saying he wasn't involved in MJ's professional, business or personal life any time after 2004 to his death.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

These issues are being litigated in two separate courts?

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

here we go again

in probate case - in other words Estate's complaint against Tohme- after medical records and declaration from McClain court has decided that McClain has no information in regards to Tohme and MJ. So he won't be deposed. Court also said if Tohme finds evidence to the contrary - something that shows McClain has any information- he can bring another motion and court would reconsider the deposition issue.

as you know neverland finders fee issue in civil case - in other words Tohme's complaint against Estate- has recently been put on calendar. So Tohme again is trying to depose McClain and Estate has filed a protective order motion reminding the judge what had previously happened. Estate is again offering a written deposition and/or asking the court again determine that there's no need for McClain deposition.

Tohme's lawyers have supposedly said they want to depose McClain about MJ's problems with Neverland and if McClain and MJ had an estranged relationship. McClain provided a declaration saying he wasn't involved in MJ's professional, business or personal life any time after 2004 to his death.

That's funny because not long ago, Tohme lawyers flled a motion to dismiss the estate case on the ground that there was no triable issue. if this is true, why do they still need to depose McClain on the finder fee? and even if mcClain knew of MJ problems with neverland, how is that going to help Tohme case?

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

These issues are being litigated in two separate courts?

not really. as they are related cases one judge - Beckloff - is assigned to both.

That's funny because not long ago, Tohme lawyers flled a motion to dismiss the estate case on the ground that there was no triable issue. if this is true, why do they still need to depose McClain on the finder fee? and even if mcClain knew of MJ problems with neverland, how is that going to help Tohme case?

I guess it is obvious - if it wasn't already - this is harassment.