MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

"However Tohme’s lawyers claim the hearings in front of the Labor Commissioner has showed that while they have jurisdiction over the management agreements, they have no jurisdiction over the finder’s fee agreement about Neverland. So Tohme’s lawyers now asking LA Superiour court to take over the finder’s fee agreement issue put it on calendar and even make a summary judgment decision in favor of Tohme that the finder's fee agreement is valid and binding."

I was reading this: http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/talent/talent_laws_relating_to_talent_agencies.pdf

Wouldn't this bit apply to Tohme case
(b) No talent agency may refer an artist to any person, firm, or corporation in which the talent agency has a direct or indirect financial interest for other services to be rendered to the artist, including, but not limited to, photography, audition tapes, demonstration reels or similar materials, business management, personal management, coaching, dramatic school, casting or talent brochures, agency-client directories, or other printing.
(c) No talent agency may accept any referral fee or similar compensation from any person, association, or corporation providing services of any type expressly set forth in subdivision (b) to an artist under contract with the talent agency.

Wasn't Tohme had some wheelings and dealing with Colony Capital, so Labour Co or Superior court should rule in estate's favour.

-------------------------------------
"Return of property request is still ongoing. The same June 2012 hearing transcript and a short mention of Branca’s deposition clarifies Estate’s “return of property” claims. Branca mentions a private investigator being hired. Weitzman in hearing states Estate wants to know “where all the money went and how it was spent” and “there’s property Tohme got has yet to be returned”. Weitzman also states that they know someone who was supposed to pay Michael directly paid to Tohme and coincidentally Tohme purchased houses just after Michael passed away. They want discovery of all accounts managed by Tohme, where the money come from and where it went."

I wonder what is that property that the estate is talking about and seems to be certain that Tohme has it.
It is not money as money is mentioned separately, so what it could be?
Good thing that they have hired private investigator. I wonder who is that person who was supposed to pay directly to Michael, but gave money to Tohme?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

"
I was reading this: http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/talent/talent_laws_relating_to_talent_agencies.pdf

Wouldn't this bit apply to Tohme case
(b) No talent agency may refer an artist to any person, firm, or corporation in which the talent agency has a direct or indirect financial interest for other services to be rendered to the artist, including, but not limited to, photography, audition tapes, demonstration reels or similar materials, business management, personal management, coaching, dramatic school, casting or talent brochures, agency-client directories, or other printing.
(c) No talent agency may accept any referral fee or similar compensation from any person, association, or corporation providing services of any type expressly set forth in subdivision (b) to an artist under contract with the talent agency.

Wasn't Tohme had some wheelings and dealing with Colony Capital, so Labour Co or Superior court should rule in estate's favour.

I think the issue here is that finders fee / neverland deal happened before Tohme was hired as a manager. Estate argued all agreements tied together but it seems like labor commissioner doesn't think they have jurisdiction over finder's fee agreement that predates the management agreement.

Estate can still challenge that in superior court but if Tohme wins that it means Estate would need to pay him $4 Million for the financing and 10% of the future sale.

I wonder what is that property that the estate is talking about and seems to be certain that Tohme has it.
It is not money as money is mentioned separately, so what it could be?
Good thing that they have hired private investigator. I wonder who is that person who was supposed to pay directly to Michael, but gave money to Tohme?

That part wasn't very clear hence I did not include in the report but I can tell you what I understood - but I might be wrong.

I think Estate thinks $5-6 million is missing. Either taken from MJ's accounts or something directly paid to Tohme. I think they believe Tohme bought one (or more ) house and a car with it - all in July 2009. There were rumors that he bought a $5.8 Million house at Bel-Air.

It also seems like they think some personal items missing. They mention a 5000 page inventory made by Juliens as a source. Apparently for that cancelled Neverland auction Juliens have cataloged every single item at Neverland. Now they don't say anything else about it but to me logically it sounds like they think some items from that inventory is missing. If everything was there, I don't think that inventory list would be a source of information used in this case.
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

...
I think Estate thinks $5-6 million is missing. Either taken from MJ's accounts or something directly paid to Tohme. I think they believe Tohme bought one (or more ) house and a car with it - all in July 2009. There were rumors that he bought a $5.8 Million house at Bel-Air.

...
I guess it's not only a rumor. What do you guys think about?
Please check this blog .. quote:
But...
Theres a secret between Michael and Tohme
and 5.5 Million was part of that secret.
Is there something else that is part of that secret.

"Don't tell anyone about this money,'" Michael stated
It's a secret between Michael and Me.according to Tohme.
Shortly after June 25, 2009, Tohme purchased a home
of which i have driven by on ocassion.
The property is in Bel Air sits literally across the street
from where these pictures above were taken.(BEL AIR HOTEL)

And please check that link:

2jadbm9.jpg
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

3 weeks after Michael's passing, Tohme purchased that house:ph34r:

He seems to be married to a woman named Wendy Tohme as the house was purchased by both of them:
696 Stone Canyon Road
Buyer: Tohme and Wendy Tohme
Seller: Robert G Ketchum

Interesting list of houses he has bought
http://losangeles.blockshopper.com/search?f=buyer&q=Tohme
1 example what makes it interesting
562 Homewood Road
Buyer: Wendy Tohme
Seller: Thome Tohme

Can somebody from US or Canada post what this link says about him as I'm not from those countries so I cannot access it
https://www.peoplesmart.com/search-results?FirstName=Tohme&LastName=Tohme&State=CA
 
;4042301 said:
However Tohme’s lawyers claim the hearings in front of the Labor Commissioner has showed that while they have jurisdiction over the management agreements, they have no jurisdiction over the finder’s fee agreement about Neverland. So Tohme’s lawyers now asking LA Superiour court to take over the finder’s fee agreement issue put it on calendar and even make a summary judgment decision in favor of Tohme that the finder's fee agreement is valid and binding.

As of May 2014 the 10% Neverland loan + 10% interest equals $3.9 Million. Tohme asks a judgment for this amount. He also asks the court to determine that Tohme is entitled to 10% from future transactions about Neverland (which includes loan buyout and sale of Neverland).

An hearing is set for October 6, 2014.

Any news of the result of the October 6th hearing?
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^^Oh forgot about that one. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Any news of the result of the October 6th hearing?

This is the only info I can see whatever it might means?
Proceedings Held
10/06/2014 at 08:30 am in Department 51, Mitchell L. Beckloff, Presiding
Motion Hearing (to partially lift stay ofSuperior Court Lawsuit and toallow filing of rule 437c Motion;) - Continued by Court


So nothing much going on and there are no Future Hearings mentioned.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

What I see that is free - lists 4 possibilities, maybe all are him:

https://www.peoplesmart.com/search-results?FirstName=Tohme&LastName=Tohme&State=CA

Complete Details
Tohme R Tohme
Mid 60s
Los Angeles, CA
West Hollywood, CA
Brentwood, CA

Possible relatives:

Charif R Tohme Sr
Houssein Tohme
Ramez T Tohme
Wendy Mae Tohme


Tohme Tohme


Los Angeles, CA






Tohme Tohme


Los Angeles, CA




Tohme Tohme


Los Angeles, CA
 
There is a update from Ivy on her blog daily.michael.com


MJ Estate v. Tohme case: McClain deposition

Category: Estate v. Tohme
Published: Friday, 19 December 2014 15:53
Hits: 496

As you might know MJ Estate and Tohme have filed competing lawsuits against each other in 2012.

Tohme sued MJ Estate asking for fees he’s owed. These were 10% from Neverland refinancing, 10% from any future transaction about Neverland, 15% of income from services he provided (plus interest when applicable). Estate filed a petition with Labor Commissioner based on California’s Talent Agency act to cancel three agreements MJ had with Tohme. Parties are still waiting for the decision of Labor Commissioner.

In another lawsuit MJ Estate sued Tohme asking for accounting all actions and transactions done by Tohme, return of any money and property (of Michael) in Tohme’s possession. This lawsuit has been ongoing in probate court. Executor McClain’s deposition is a dispute parties have been trying to solve for over a year.

Here is some background information: Tohme wanted to depose MJ Estate Executors about their claims against him. John Branca was deposed in December 2012. In his deposition Branca said he doesn’t have any firsthand knowledge of the allegations that Tohme took money and property from MJ. Branca said his information came from a report of a private investigator. McClain’s deposition has been cancelled several times due to spikes to his blood pressure (high blood pressure). Tohme filed a motion to compel McClain to sit for a deposition. Judge said McClain’s medial info provided to the parties was too general or sometimes no medical information was provided for cancelled depositions.

MJ Estate has suggested an alternative way to depose McClain through a written deposition where Tohme sends his questions and McClain provides written answers. Court suggested a deposition where McClain’s doctor and a discovery referee present and stop the deposition if needed. Estate hasn’t agreed with that as they don’t want McClain to experience any health issues during a deposition. They also argue that McClain hasn’t even met Tohme, has no direct information, he surely doesn’t know anything different/more than Branca and actually he knows less than Branca.

During a hearing it was brought up by court that perhaps Branca can be allowed to pursue the lawsuit against Tohme on his own. Tohme was against this. They disagreed with Estate’s written deposition offer and asked the judge to even dismiss Estate’s case against Tohme if McClain doesn’t sit for his deposition.

This resulted in oppositions and answers from MJ Estate. First according to court case summary McClain’s medical information was filed with the court and it was sealed. This sealing is not surprising (or a conspiracy) given that in United States HIPAA protects confidentiality of medical information of individuals. Second Estate filed a 9630 motion asking Judge to allow Branca to act alone in Estate’s complaint against Tohme. This document is also filed conditionally under seal as it is referring to McClain’s private and confidential medical condition. The rest of the documents consisting of thousands of pages are publicly available.

Tohme is opposing Estate’s motion. Tohme lawyers argue McClain cannot be selectively removed from one aspect of being an Executor; he must be completely removed as an Executor or not at all. Estate and Tohme’s competing motions in this regard have been filed starting September 2014. A hearing was initially set for December 17, 2014 but now delayed to January 15, 2015.

Now for my personal take on this subject: While I respect Tohme’s right to depose Executors who brought a lawsuit against him, the situation with McClain is borderline harassment in my opinion. We all know that neither Branca nor McClain was in Michael’s life when Tohme was Michael’s “manager” hence they have no personal direct information and their knowledge and claims come from a private investigator report. So deposing McClain isn’t going to achieve anything or help Tohme in his defense. I feel Tohme lawyers rather than being reasonable and not depose McClain or alternatively do a written deposition; using McClain’s medical condition to their advantage to try to get the case against Tohme dismissed.

We will see what will happen in 2015. On another note Labor Commissioner’s decision about the three agreements between MJ and Tohme is expected to come in less than 3 months. So 2015 should bring some developments in this case.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Thanks for posting and thanks ivy. agree that hes harrassing the executors as said they have no knowledge. but tbh the estate have played into his hands. with delays and going back and forth. mclain should just do it. he has no knowledge so let it be over with in 5 mins.
 
Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 10 Std. Vor 10 Stunden

Only McClain can answer that so your guess is as good as mine RT @SoftlyYouSay2Me: I wonder who will be appointed IF he steps down
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Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 10 Std. Vor 10 Stunden

He had a stroke in 2005 & fears another stroke under stress RT @Ladyinhislife2: Other than high blood pressure [lexicon]Why[/lexicon] he not do the deposition?
0 Antworten 7 Retweets 4 Favoriten
Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 11 Std. Vor 11 Stunden

Here's the relevant section from the will about Executors, resignations, replacements - @SpeechlessMJJ16
B8EUdG6CIAAENOJ.jpg:large

Mehr Fotos und Videos anzeigen
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Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 11 Std. Vor 11 Stunden

McClain can name his successor or Branca becomes the sole executor. RT @SpeechlessMJJ16: Would someone else be appointed?


Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 11 Std. Vor 11 Stunden

I guess he can just sit for deposition at Tohme case and avoid this. This is developing news. Next few months should bring more information.
0 Antworten 9 Retweets 2 Favoriten
Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 11 Std. Vor 11 Stunden

Court is asking McClain if he's willing to submit to a health evaluation and/or if he would consider resigning from Executor position.
0 Antworten 15 Retweets 11 Favoriten
Ivy @Ivy_4MJ · 11 Std. Vor 11 Stunden

It looks like McClain's health issues might end his position as an executor of MJ Estate #developingnews
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Mclain's health did not prevent him from participating in the Michael or Xscape albums. I would suggest he participate in the deposition as this is an unnecessary drain of estate funds.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Yes, unless McClain is totally physically or mentally incapacitated, he should go ahead and give the deposition.
Get it over with.
A person usually does this in the presence of their atty who should be able to stop any type of undue stressful type of questioning. I believe he can even have a doctor with him as well.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Yeah i agree. its as stressful as u let it be and if u have no knowledge it will be easy enough to get through.

him stepping down would be worrying as the jacksons will be salavating at the prospect of trying to excert any pressure they can to get one of their "own"on board
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Since Prince turns 18 next month, I wonder if he could step in instead of McClain. Although he probably goes to Uni and will have his hand full with other things so maybe it's not something he would want.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Since Prince turns 18 next month, I wonder if he could step in instead of McClain.

Well theoretically speaking when McCalin appointes him as his successor and Prince agrees that he wants to do it.

I think it would not a good idea, then Prince really has his family in his neck.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I just want to point out - don't ignore Tohme's role in this issue.

The only reason this is happening is because Tohme is forcing to depose McClain and have filed motions against him. Sure by law Tohme is entitled to depose the persons that make claims against him but he could have deposed only Branca especially given McClain has health issues and lack of knowledge. McClain's health isn't something new and 5.5 yrs went with multiple lawsuits and no problems. So "is Tohme being reasonable by his request or is this just a tactic to get Estate's lawsuit against him dismissed" also needs to be considered IMO.

As for McClain's health and ability to be an Executor I hope it's clear that the only issue is the stressful situations and how such situations put him in risk for another stroke and even death.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Well theoretically speaking when McCalin appointes him as his successor and Prince agrees that he wants to do it.

I think it would not a good idea, then Prince really has his family in his neck.

Prince will have no say until he turns 30 when he starts to inherit his share of the estate. Besides he's too young and should be focusing on his education.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Since Prince turns 18 next month, I wonder if he could step in instead of McClain. Although he probably goes to Uni and will have his hand full with other things so maybe it's not something he would want.

It's quite irresponsible to suggest Prince to step in. He's still a kid. Plus, he has no say until he turns 30, at which point he will start to inherit his share of the estate.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I just want to point out - don't ignore Tohme's role in this issue.

The only reason this is happening is because Tohme is forcing to depose McClain and have filed motions against him. Sure by law Tohme is entitled to depose the persons that make claims against him but he could have deposed only Branca especially given McClain has health issues and lack of knowledge. McClain's health isn't something new and 5.5 yrs went with multiple lawsuits and no problems. So "is Tohme being reasonable by his request or is this just a tactic to get Estate's lawsuit against him dismissed" also needs to be considered IMO.

As for McClain's health and ability to be an Executor I hope it's clear that the only issue is the stressful situations and how such situations put him in risk for another stroke and even death.

Well, I guess Tohme Tohme does not want to go down alone. he wants to take McClain with him.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I think it's clear that Tohme wants the case dismissed. And this is a tactic to do so.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

It's quite irresponsible to suggest Prince to step in. He's still a kid. Plus, he has no say until he turns 30, at which point he will start to inherit his share of the estate.

I did not "suggest" anything. I just wondered if it's possible. Obviously his decision will not depend on anything written on this board.

And won't he inherit his share in three turns? When will be the first? Also I do not think his possibility of stepping in depends on when he will start inheriting. McClain and Branca do not inherit anything from MJ yet it's possible for them to be executors. Unless there is some rule that a heir cannot be an executor too. This is not a "suggestion" or a demand or anything like that. I was just wondering if it would be possible. I agree that he should focus on his studies first, but then I do not know how active McClain was really. If he was not very active and if it's really Branca who is running things, then it may not mean that much extra burden for the second executor in the future either.
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

He gets his allowance next month. then %'s at 30 and 40. i was wondering the other day. If i remember right? he can ask for his 30yrs old share at 21 ie say at 21 i want the x amount put aside to be paid at thirty. but can he also say i dont want my % at thirty id rather leave it a few years or can he not refuse it at thirty? ivy.

totally agree thome is playing as we say silly buggers to try for a dismissal or any kind of win.

to me jr getting involved in any executor type roles would cause big trouble for him. hes gonna have and has enough troubles of his own anyway. that stuff needs to be left to the experts. working with them totally but nothing more

good point re mclains actual role as executor aswell. considering branca as a music biz lawyer seems to cover much of what is needed at the mo.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

And won't he inherit his share in three turns? When will be the first?

income at 21, getting shares at 30,35 and 40.

Also I do not think his possibility of stepping in depends on when he will start inheriting. McClain and Branca do not inherit anything from MJ yet it's possible for them to be executors. Unless there is some rule that a heir cannot be an executor too.

most states allow beneficiaries to be executors. The possible issue with that is the conflict of the interest especially if there is other beneficiaries. In other words if one beneficiary is also the executor that beneficiary can make decisions to their own benefit while hurting the other beneficiaries. Most recent example is Martin Luther King Estate. Some of his kids are both the beneficiary and executors while some of his kids are only beneficiaries. I believe the siblings had 5 or more lawsuits suing each other concerning their disagreements of how to run the Estate. Anyway given such conflict possibility when only one or more but not all of the beneficiaries is also an executor courts prefer a co-executor in place to make sure the remaining beneficiaries rights are protected.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

income at 21, getting shares at 30,35 and 40.
-------

thanks for clarifying ivy. re the income at 21 (totally forgotten about that) what sort of figures is that based off and inturn if he was 21 now what would he be getting and how ie monthly wage for eg
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

i was wondering the other day. If i remember right? he can ask for his 30yrs old share at 21 ie say at 21 i want the x amount put aside to be paid at thirty. but can he also say i dont want my % at thirty id rather leave it a few years or can he not refuse it at thirty? ivy.

for example Michael's trust says to give the kids income at 21 but also allows to give them more - from principal- if needed. It also allows money to be given to them if there's a reason such as school, buying a house, marriage, stating a business. So I think there isn't any strict rules and they can get high amounts depending on the situation before they are 30/35/40.

As for the second part he can refuse technically and to that best example is Lisa Marie Presley. Elvis's executor was his father Vernon. Vernon determined his successors as Bank of Memphis, his accountant and Priscilla. The accountant resigned. LMP was supposed to take over the control of Elvis's Estate at 25 and she did. But she formed her own trust and appointed Priscilla and Bank of Memphis which run the Elvis Estate for 5 more years. So even though LMP got complete control of her father's estate at 25, she choose to let the current executors/trustees to run it 5 more years. She took control when she's 30. Later on she sold 85% of Elvis Estate while maintaining 15% interest and full control of Graceland.

So it's hard to say what will MJ's kids do. They might choose to run their father's Estate with direct involvement or they might chose to appoint other people to run it.
 
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Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

There are many, many tactics used during lawsuits for unnecessary and expensive procrastination. Some tactics are more effective than others.

Mclain not participating in a deposition for health reasons is no longer effective or believable. He will now have to submit or risk losing his extremely lucrative position as co-executor.

I would suggest he submit to the deposition.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I did not "suggest" anything. I just wondered if it's possible. Obviously his decision will not depend on anything written on this board.

And won't he inherit his share in three turns? When will be the first? Also I do not think his possibility of stepping in depends on when he will start inheriting. McClain and Branca do not inherit anything from MJ yet it's possible for them to be executors. Unless there is some rule that a heir cannot be an executor too. This is not a "suggestion" or a demand or anything like that. I was just wondering if it would be possible. I agree that he should focus on his studies first, but then I do not know how active McClain was really. If he was not very active and if it's really Branca who is running things, then it may not mean that much extra burden for the second executor in the future either.

until prince has inherited his share, he has no say in the appointment of an executor. the executors are appointed by MJ. their role is to execute the will of MJ to its full extend. in case of resignation, death, those executors can name a replacement. and in case there is no replacement then bank of america (Ivy correct me here if i'm wrong) will take over. So it's not prince's job to decide who to execute the will of his dad. that's not what MJ said in his will.

so if McClain resigns today, it's up to him to name his successor. if not, then John Branca will remain as the sole executor until the will is fully executed.
 
Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

thanks for clarifying ivy. re the income at 21 (totally forgotten about that) what sort of figures is that based off and inturn if he was 21 now what would he be getting and how ie monthly wage for eg

hard to say a figure.

but it would be based on the annual income that the Estate brings. In a very very simplified fashion so gross income minus expenses minus costs minus taxes = net income / net profit. divide that net profit by 4 (as long as Katherine is alive) or 3. give that amount to the beneficiary over 21.

again hard to put a figure to it but I imagine it could be a few millions per year.

He will now have to submit or risk losing his extremely lucrative position as co-executor.

I don't think it's either / or at least for now. He is also asked if he would submit to a health evaluation. He might and if the health evaluation might confirm what McClain and Estate is saying. That McClain is mentally and physically capable to be an Executor but stressful situations put him at significant risk. Then what? I'm not going to claim I know how the court determines capability but to me some extremes suggested here doesn't sound reasonable - especially given that there are two executors. I mean I don't see a court ruling "you'll be deposed even if it will kill you" or "you are more than capable to do your job but you cannot be an executor because you can have a heart attack when deposed". Logical side in me says there could be a middle ground but I guess we will wait and see.

so if McClain resigns today, it's up to him to name his successor. if not, then John Branca will remain as the sole executor until the will is fully executed.

branca and mcclain is also the trustee. so technically he'll run the trust until Blanket turns 40. Given it's 27 yrs away and Branca's and Mcclains age, it's more than likely that there would be at least one another executor/trustee (unless Branca / Mcclain names the kids as exeutors/trustees.)
 
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