Michael - The Great Album Debate

Someone either here or on Max Jax (Pentum? Or maybe it was Geso?) compared the waveforms of the early stream and then the supposed 'new track' that was streamed a week or so later. This is the mix some fans referred to when they claimed that Sony uploaded a new mix and that they now could hear Michael. I already found that quite bizarre at the time, because it sounded exactly the same.

The poster showed that the waveforms were indeed identical. Both version were exactly the same.

The reason fans started to believe they could hear Michael was ,I think, a result of the Estate's statement. They simply believed what they read without doing any further fact checking. Their seems to be a lot of blind faith in the Estate, who thus far have made a mess of things, which I find quite worrying. The thing is, most of that statement is nonsense. It came out of the crisis meeting held with Sony execs on November 9th in Miami.
 
Someone either here or on Max Jax (Pentum? Or maybe it was Geso?) compared the waveforms of the early stream and then the supposed 'new track' that was streamed a week or so later. This is the mix some fans referred to when they claimed that Sony uploaded a new mix and that they now could hear Michael. I already found that quite bizarre at the time, because it sounded exactly the same.

The poster showed that the waveforms were indeed identical. Both version were exactly the same.

Ehem, not that I have much to add to this thread but the one who made the comparison with screenshots was no other than me, on this forum. And yes, they were identical, I still have the snapshot and both versions recorded..
 
The reason fans started to believe they could hear Michael was ,I think, a result of the Estate's statement. They simply believed what they read without doing any further fact checking. Their seems to be a lot of blind faith in the Estate, who thus far have made a mess of things, which I find quite worrying. The thing is, most of that statement is nonsense. It came out of the crisis meeting held with Sony execs on November 9th in Miami.
It certainly did seem to have a pretty significant effect. I remember being utterly surprised by the fact that some fans suddenly started to say that they could now hear Michael on this 'new mix' and that the previous version must have been uploaded mistakingly. Not only does that rationale in and of itself seem strange to me, but we know for a fact that those two mixes were identical.

Thus, the question becomes what influenced them to hear a difference where there was none. If I remember correctly, this 'new mix' story came up after the Estate released their statement. I think it is safe to say that the statement probably was the primary reason for this belief.

Ehem, not that I have much to add to this thread but the one who made the comparison with screenshots was no other than me, on this forum. And yes, they were identical, I still have the snapshot and both versions recorded..
Ah, I see! Sorry for misremembering (and thanks for comparing them at that time!).
 
I think Geso did that on MaxJax too. Where did you come from, Nighty :D ? Hehe, joking. You're welcome here
 
I think Geso did that on MaxJax too. Where did you come from, Nighty :D ? Hehe, joking. You're welcome here

Haha, well thank you. I usually lurk on this thread at times and I just happened to see SoCav's post about the comparisons on the "recent posts" section..
 
StellaJackson;3653341 said:
From an interview conducted by Richard Lecocq from MJ Databank: (Translated directly, and badly, from French)

MJJNews.fr: The CD Michael: What was your involvement in these securities? What can you tell people who do recognize the voice of "James Gate" than Michael leads in songs?

Frank Cascio: Ok, my name is Frank Cascio and I have a brother named Eddie Cascio and .... "We Are Two Different People" (referring to the phrase of Michael alongside Janet at the Grammy Awards in 1993, Ed). I have nothing to do with this disc. I have no financial motivation and have nothing to do with it. I know that tomorrow (the interview took place June 5, 2012, Ed) I'll meet fans who want me to throw tomatoes, but I do not have to defend something I do not have to defend, but I can tell you is that it is Michael who sings on this disc. And if you read the credits, you will see that the recording studio is the same as that used for the remixes of Thriller 25. All this is unfortunate because the album could be successful. But because of these stories, it was not the case. I ask you just read between the lines. (...) Do you think Sony and the Estate take the risk of releasing a record without Michael's voice on it? They hired two experts to study the songs and both have confirmed that it was him. The songs were recorded when Michael got back to work. The only thing I am guilty of is having convinced Michael to return to the studio to create music and to dance again. I remotivé and showed him he could be himself and relax. It was a long "process". My brother had to go to London and build a studio to work with Michael there (for This Is It, Ed). That's what I can tell you ... "That's life" (in French, Ed).

MJJNews.fr: Personally what do you think the three songs that have created controversy?

Frank Cascio: I like Keep Your Head Up and it's one of the best songs on the album. I do my best to answer you but it would be to my brother Eddie to do so.

MJJNews.fr: What was the involvement of John McClain in the preparation of this CD?

Frank Cascio: I love John Branca and Michael did well to put it in there Estate because it handles things well. John and Michael may have had their differences over the years. But both have made ​​history, they purchased the entire Beatles catalog. Once a case was complicated surface, called John Michael to take things in hand. As for John McClain, I am reminded of an anecdote: one day he came to see me on the set of You Rock My World, saying: "Frank, you must blacken the skin of Michael and put the dough on the nose ... "And I said:" I do not think it's a good idea, if you want to say, go ahead, I do not tell him. And I suggest you not to do. " And you talk ... I got a call from Karen Faye asking me to come urgently. Michael's was locked in his dressing room and he had all broken after John McClain has finally said what he wanted to tell him. I knocked on the door several times and finally Michael opened. He was sitting on the floor, his hands on his face, crying like a baby. And I felt so bad for him. He said: "What a crazy team. Is what I'm strange to you? I did not tell them how they should be, me ... Let them go to hell, I cancel the shoot today and I canceled everything. " He cried. I could not believe it. How people could afford to say such things. If John really knew Michael would never have done that. (...) John played double game is never of course, I respect it for its place within the Estate. But I am aware of this animosity towards me because of my surname. He played double game could not stand to see me in the entourage of Michael, he took my name and has turned against brother. Eddie must have had six songs on the album, and John wanted to put in too. Again, read between the lines and this is only my opinion ...

MJJNews.fr: In the end, this story has brought controversy in the music of Michael, which was not the case in his lifetime. What do you think?

Frank Cascio: It should not have to be this way. It's sad because it's a good album, a compilation of good music. I learned one thing in life is that it is difficult to make everybody happy. I try to make everyone happy but that is impossible. And in the end it's me who suffers. I know how much Michael loved his fans. All I know is that my book helps preserve the legacy of Michael as Michael would have liked. He has so tried to explain who he was, but he did not know how. He said he wanted to make the world understand who he was. And there was this story with Martin Bashir .... But he tried. And it was stabbed in the back.

Interview by Richard Lecocq for MJJNews.fr / MJ data bank / Photo: Cristiane Montenegro / Saykou Diallo / (C) 2012 MJJNews.fr. All rights reserved.

http://mjdatabank.com/mjjnews/wordpress/2012/06/08/exclusif-frank-cascio-linterview-12/

At least we now have confirmation that Michael did indeed the Thriller 25 vocals in that basement, which just to go prove the point even further as they sound absolutely nothing like the Cascio tracks.

IMO Frank doesn't do a good job of defending his brother.

Seems like he won’t stick his neck out for him when he said “Me and my brother are 2 different people” (Even if he was paraphrasing MJ) Is like saying “Hey, whatever he did or does it’s his own business”.

And I can’t understand how you can be that distant from your brother’s affair when they include working with THE Michael Jackson. And especially when you also claim that MJ was your super duper friend. (?)
 
I think the problem here is that too many people have read directly from the Estate's statement. Kind of like reading direct from a powerpoint slide and not actually taking the time to evaluate it for yourself.
 
I think the problem here is that too many people have read directly from the Estate's statement. Kind of like reading direct from a powerpoint slide and not actually taking the time to evaluate it for yourself.

Man, you remind me of a teacher I had when I was attending my psycho-paedagogy course. I was obliged every Saturday afternoon to attend lessons given by a lawyer. He actually took his syllabus and put it on the retroprojector and was reading out aloud for three consecutive hours about different legal aspects of the schooling system. Guaranteed boredom.
 
I think the problem here is that too many people have read directly from the Estate's statement. Kind of like reading direct from a powerpoint slide and not actually taking the time to evaluate it for yourself.

Arrogance at its best. Will be funny next year. Pretty embarrassing for certain people who hold up certain lies ("snorts", "rough demos", comparison clips with the wrong vocals/singer...)
 
Arrogance at its best. Will be funny next year. Pretty embarrassing for certain people who hold up certain lies ("snorts", "rough demos", comparison clips with the wrong vocals/singer...)

Korgnex,

What will be funny?

If you are referring to Birchey and Cartman, I don't find it funny but rather sad that it had to happen.

If you are not referring to them then how do you know that in the future it is going to be funny? Do you know things that we don't? Please share.
 
Korgnex,

What will be funny?

If you are referring to Birchey and Cartman, I don't find it funny but rather sad that it had to happen.

If you are not referring to them then how do you know that in the future it is going to be funny? Do you know things that we don't? Please share.

The question in bold has been asked a gazillion times by now. Sigh...
 
Korgnex,

What will be funny?

If you are referring to Birchey and Cartman, I don't find it funny but rather sad that it had to happen.

If you are not referring to them then how do you know that in the future it is going to be funny? Do you know things that we don't? Please share.

Korgnex, why are snorts a lie? They are there on both Cascio and JM recordings so why are they a lie?
 
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Arrogance at its best. Will be funny next year. Pretty embarrassing for certain people who hold up certain lies ("snorts", "rough demos", comparison clips with the wrong vocals/singer...)

Seriously Korgnex, with all your cryptic posts with no substance, it's quite easy to just assume you actually know nothing....
 
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Frank shouldn't be takin the bait for his brother if he feels he has no involvement. But, he volunteered to do it by speakin for his brother saying things that made no sense in that intereview as if he were Eddie. So some shouldn't get mad when we call him out for it. He is involving himself in the matter by saying things like no cameras nor pics were taken and how they didn't need too. If he knows nothin he shouldn't act like he has all the answers then.
 
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Korgnex, why are snorts a lie? They are there on both Cascio and JM recordings so why are they a lie?

It's a stupid assumption to call those noises on KYHU and BN a "snort".
It just shows that you have NOT heard the earlier mixes (unleaked), they make it clear there's no "snort" anywhere.
Feel free to continue believing in this lie and other ones.

@teli-mj: Unlike Birchey I have no interest to make sensitive information public or invent stories like he did (again: "rough demos" is the biggest lie ever talked about here).

Not to mention TPIMaster's inability to recognize what's wrong with his infamous comparison clip called "Yogurt"...
No other doubter is recognizing it as well. Guess why? The contradictions between the doubters are always being ignored in order to keep up the common frustration and hatred towards the imagined enemy.
 
Can anyone explain me why I have never doubted about ANY MJ song but why exactly Cascios sound to me ''off'', weird, non-MJ-ish? I'd like to know what causes that cause I really want to believe it is MJ.
 
Can anyone explain me why I have never doubted about ANY MJ song but why exactly Cascios sound to me ''off'', weird, non-MJ-ish? I'd like to know what causes that cause I really want to believe it is MJ.

Cause they're not MJ, duh!
 
Can anyone explain me why I have never doubted about ANY MJ song but why exactly Cascios sound to me ''off'', weird, non-MJ-ish? I'd like to know what causes that cause I really want to believe it is MJ.

Because apparently a seed of doubt was planted and because of that we are brainwashed into believing that we hear JM's voice.



@Korgnex, Breaking News contains at least one clear snort. Nothing unusual for a human being when pronouncing some sounds. It can happen to all of us and it's not something that we can control. It just happens. Usually it happens when we inhale and when we cannot control our laugh sometimes. Haven't you never heard people suddenly laughing and snorting without doing it on purpose? Sometimes it happens when we want to quickly pronounce some sounds and when we inhale before pronouncing them.

Would it be possible that MJ had snorted? Yes. Completely possible. The problem is, we don't know a single song where he does it. If it is him on BN, then it is the first time in his career to snort while singing.
 
@Korgnex, Breaking News contains at least one clear snort.

It is an unproven claim that the noise you hear on Teddy's mix would be a "snort". If you heard the earlier mixes of it, you would understand why this claim is nonsense. I have already told you it's a production artefact and nothing else.

So your "at least one clear sort" is the arrogance I'm talking about. You don't have sufficient information to back up such ridiculous claims that have been declared as so-called "facts" for months. They can easily be refuted.

The same goes for how some of Teddy's statements have been - intentionally or not - distorted and how he's been ridiculed about because of that and became one of your preferred targets (you guys know why you always type "beLIEver" as well). He did NOT lie when he said he messed up Michael's vocals with Melodyne. It is true. However he wasn't the only producer, he was simply the finisher. You have to realize that he didn't say anything more or less. It is simply your assumption what to make of this limited information and unfortunately you guys are believing this would be an attempt to explain the vocals - but it isn't in any way.
Birchey has never heard any rough vocals, all the tracks he could acquire have already been worked on by professionals in the industry. That's all I want to say (and have said several times before).
 
Well,the streamed Breaking News and album version are different.The differences are not that huge like Michael Jackson to Barry White,but you can hear Michael's voice less robotish,the background voice lower,etc.That's what "wrong mix" means.
I saw the waveform analysis which you guys posted.It's not professional enough.So the "identical" is not identical like you guys said.
 
Well,the streamed Breaking News and album version are different.The differences are not that huge like Michael Jackson to Barry White,but you can hear Michael's voice less robotish,the background voice lower,etc.That's what "wrong mix" means.
I saw the waveform analysis which you guys posted.It's not professional enough.So the "indentical" is not indentical like you guys said.


Nonsense, I have both "versions".
 
It is an unproven claim that the noise you hear on Teddy's mix would be a "snort". If you heard the earlier mixes of it, you would understand why this claim is nonsense. I have already told you it's a production artefact and nothing else.

So your "at least one clear sort" is the arrogance I'm talking about. You don't have sufficient information to back up such ridiculous claims that have been declared as so-called "facts" for months. They can easily be refuted.

The same goes for how some of Teddy's statements have been - intentionally or not - distorted and how he's been ridiculed about because of that and became one of your preferred targets (you guys know why you always type "beLIEver" as well). He did NOT lie when he said he messed up Michael's vocals with Melodyne. It is true. However he wasn't the only producer, he was simply the finisher. You have to realize that he didn't say anything more or less. It is simply your assumption what to make of this limited information and unfortunately you guys are believing this would be an attempt to explain the vocals - but it isn't in any way.
Birchey has never heard any rough vocals, all the tracks he could acquire have already been worked on by professionals in the industry. That's all I want to say (and have said several times before).

Unproven claim? It's not a claim, it's there on the record. You can clearly hear it.

Again you are saying things like "if you knew..." , "if you heard...", "if you this, if you that". You are talking like knowing something, but you are actually saying nothing at all. Now again, share with us what you know IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING WE DON'T.

I don't know if you realize, but you have just written a mid long post denying what doubters say and claiming to know things, but in reality you have said nothing at all that helps your own claim.
 
I have to say Korgnex is right.
the Vocals were not processed solely by Teddy Riley who did NOT lie at all.He even told more truths and did more to preserve Michael's legacy than Jacksons.Teddy is a really peaceful and humble guy who is somehow hated by some fans.
Remember one thing,He was not the one who transformed A into B,he was the one who updated A to A1.
 
1) Teddy said that the vibrato is shaky because of the melodye. Now how does he explain the same shaky vibrato on the songs that he didn't touch at all?

2) About the authenticity, Teddy said "nobody can scream like MJ". Now we know that the screams are copy-pasted from Invincible and some other songs like In The Closet. Teddy implied that the screams indicated the authenticity. What about the rest of the vocals, the non-copy-pasted ones?


So, there is no direct hate towards Teddy, but towards his claims that are as unstable as the castles made of cards and as shaky as JM's vibrato.
 
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