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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Paw said:
I think one of the reasons that fans focus on vibrato is 3T's suggestion.
The vibrato is really processed.It's something like robot sound which is not natural.
Yep,you can say JM (I mean Jason Malachi)'s singing voice and Cascio track singer's singing voice have something in common.They have some similarities on some points,but not the same as a whole,even they are different in most parts.
Cascio track singer has more techniques which was accumulated from longtime professionally singing than JM (still Jason Malachi) whose singing techniques are nearly zero.JM don't even know how to properly distribute breath when singing.
BTW,you can not gain the techniques through studio magic.
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Yeah because we all have to be told what to think by 3T. Sorry but both me and my friend noticed it before we knew anything about anything 3T said. I know you want to pin the blame on them for putting this idea out there but the truth is that we would be in the same situation had they said nothing. The vibrato is identical to Jason, despite him trying to "get Michaefied" as he put, for the first time: ie trying to actually fool people as opposed to just being himself. The vibrato isn't processed as you call it. And what do you mean by processing? Why would anyone do that to a vocal? They are good quality recordings. And then there are all the other things too.
 
Garden said:
OK, let's say it's JM's vibrato, I will not fight that opinion. But why does it sound so C3PO and R2D2 -like? (remember those 2 cute robots?)
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Well listen to Jason. That's what he sounds like. Have you heard tracks like Water and Fall In Love?
 
Give me one good tjjjj....(lisp) from all these Cascio songs. I didn't hear one (a good one, like Michael sometimes did).

Give me one good 'yeahyeah' with the same tempo and flow as the one in 'Man in the mirror' for example. Two yeah's pronounced like one word.

Everybody wan'in a piece of Michael Jackson. The total omission of the 't'. Not a little t (like pronounced as a 'd') no...no 't' at all! And the whole pronouncation of the word wan'in is also not Michael's style. Isn't it the same as the Cockney accent sometimes leaves the 't' out? I've never heard him pronounce a word like that. Not in his songs and also not in his interviews.

It's not just the vibrato.

The differences are pointed out many times with numerous examples.

For me there are too many things missing to think it's Michael, but the most important one is the overal musicality. He doesn't even have to sing in key or yell his trademark 'heehee', or have a powerful voice for me to think it's him. You can feel his love and passion for music through every song.
 
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StellaJackson;3652468 said:
Well listen to Jason. That's what he sounds like. Have you heard tracks like Water and Fall In Love?
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Well yes, that's what was told by doubters from the beginning, but I never could believe that JM's natural and untouched voice sounds like that "c r a z y" vibrato that is so robot-like. That is not JM's natural voice ànd that is not MJ's natural voice. Neither of them natural voices. What voice is it then? JM's processed voice or MJ's processed voice? How can we know it if JM does always his best to be the sound alike of MJ?
 
Chamife said:
Give me one good tjjjj....(lisp) from all these Cascio songs. I didn't hear one (a good one, like Michael sometimes did).

Give me one good 'yeahyeah' with the same tempo and flow as the one in 'Man in the mirror' for example. Two yeah's pronounced like one word.

Everybody wan'in a piece of Michael Jackson. The total omission of the 't'. Not a little t (like pronounced as a 'd') no...no 't' at all! And the whole pronouncation of the word wan'in is also not Michael's style. Isn't it the same as the Cockney accent sometimes leaves the 't' out? I've never heard him pronounce a word like that. Not in his songs and also not in his interviews.

It's not just the vibrato.

The differences are pointed out many times with numerous examples.

For me there are too many things missing to think it's Michael, but the most important one is the overal musicality. He doesn't even have to sing in key or yell his trademark 'heehee', or have a powerful voice for me to think it's him. You can feel his love and passion for music through every song.
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Could be right Chamife... honestly I don't know who sings the Cascio tracks, I really don't know.
 
Garden;3652646 said:
Well yes, that's what was told by doubters from the beginning, but I never could believe that JM's natural and untouched voice sounds like that "c r a z y" vibrato that is so robot-like. That is not JM's natural voice ànd that is not MJ's natural voice. Neither of them natural voices. What voice is it then? JM's processed voice or MJ's processed voice? How can we know it if JM does always his best to be the sound alike of MJ?
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MJ's voice had never made us doubt nor sway from being a believer to a doubter and vice versa. In this case we have 12 songs which for the first time in MJ's history divide the MJ fan community which is unable to solve the problem due to the lack of any physical trace such as photos, videos, worktapes, outtakes, etc.
 
Garden;3652646 said:
Well yes, that's what was told by doubters from the beginning, but I never could believe that JM's natural and untouched voice sounds like that "c r a z y" vibrato that is so robot-like. That is not JM's natural voice ànd that is not MJ's natural voice. Neither of them natural voices. What voice is it then? JM's processed voice or MJ's processed voice? How can we know it if JM does always his best to be the sound alike of MJ?
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We've made loads of comparisons which show the vibrato is identical to that of Jason's. It isn't processed. It is a natural, poorly controlled vibrato.
 
StellaJackson said:
We've made loads of comparisons which show the vibrato is identical to that of Jason's. It isn't processed. It is a natural, poorly controlled vibrato.
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Well... OK. I 'm trying to be respectful with people's opinions and truths. I cannot always agree, but that's not important. And well... if we are honest with ourselves, and even if not...it is perfectly fine... to express our opinions and our choices.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
MJ's voice had never made us doubt nor sway from being a believer to a doubter and vice versa. In this case we have 12 songs which for the first time in MJ's history divide the MJ fan community which is unable to solve the problem due to the lack of any physical trace such as photos, videos, worktapes, outtakes, etc.
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Yes... it seems, fan community has let itself get divided...
 
On this issue we are divided ..
but We are united in Celebrating BAD25. Some may have different personal preferences but the majority Unite for the release.
 
Garden;3652646 said:
Well yes, that's what was told by doubters from the beginning, but I never could believe that JM's natural and untouched voice sounds like that "c r a z y" vibrato that is so robot-like. That is not JM's natural voice ànd that is not MJ's natural voice. Neither of them natural voices. What voice is it then? JM's processed voice or MJ's processed voice? How can we know it if JM does always his best to be the sound alike of MJ?
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Jason 'live':
[youtube]13glEGiyXSw[/youtube]

KYHU:
[youtube]rTqkN-ZILVI[/youtube]

Jason uses (not with every vibrato, but on many) a sort of whispering or a bit like 'penting' (hijgende) vibrato, as you can hear in 0.58, 2.23 or 2.26.
Same vibrato as in 1.22-1.23 or 2.35 from KYHU.
I'm not a Jason Malachi expert, but it looks to me as he only uses that vibrato when a word ends with a certain vowel, for instance with the 'y' or 'i' (like in 'me'), although I haven't really looked into that yet. I just noticed it.

And of course the yelps that are very present in his live performance (big one 0.24!) and in KYHU at 3.31 or 3.44.

PS: The yelps are ugly. I normally seldom use 'Michael would never', but in this case: Michael would never allow that on a record (and don't do it at all). Again, it's ugly.
 
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OK Chamife.
Only... all that publicity for JM...
And it's time I go now, see you next time :)
 
Chamife said:
Jason 'live':
[youtube]13glEGiyXSw[/youtube]

KYHU:
[youtube]rTqkN-ZILVI[/youtube]

Jason uses (not with every vibrato, but on many) a sort of whispering or a bit like 'penting' (hijgende) vibrato, as you can hear in 0.58, 2.23 or 2.26.
Same vibrato as in 1.22-1.23 or 2.35 from KYHU.
I'm not a Jason Malachi expert, but it looks to me as he only uses that vibrato when a word ends with a certain vowel, for instance with the 'y' or 'i' (like in 'me'), although I haven't really looked into that yet. I just noticed it.

And of course the yelps that are very present in his live performance (big one 0.24!) and in KYHU at 3.31 or 3.44.

PS: The yelps are ugly. I normally seldom use 'Michael would never', but in this case: Michael would never allow that on a record (and don't do it at all). Again, it's ugly.
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Yep, another match right there. As a fan, I actually find it a little embarrassing that people think KYHU is Michael.
 
Garden;3652462 said:
OK, let's say it's JM's vibrato, I will not fight that opinion. But why does it sound so C3PO and R2D2 -like? (remember those 2 cute robots?)
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Hmm, I am not sure what you mean. What sounds so off to you? Are you still referring to the vibrato? If so, I do not really have much to add to my previous posts about it. To me, the vibrato sounds like JM pitched up.

But again, even if it would not be a natural vibrato: why would they add a digital vibrato to the vocals? At least correcting the pitch of some flat notes makes some sense in theory, but what would be the reason to add a vibrato that Teddy Riley even said himself sounds off? And why would Teddy blame the strange vibrato on his Melodyning, when that is simply not the cause of the vibrato (both because of what Stella said and because of what I said before), instead of just admitting that they added that vibrato?

Garden;3652646 said:
Well yes, that's what was told by doubters from the beginning, but I never could believe that JM's natural and untouched voice sounds like that "c r a z y" vibrato that is so robot-like. That is not JM's natural voice ànd that is not MJ's natural voice. Neither of them natural voices. What voice is it then? JM's processed voice or MJ's processed voice? How can we know it if JM does always his best to be the sound alike of MJ?
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Because JM is simply not a very good sound alike, at least imo. When I first heard him, I thought that he was a decent impersonator who at times did sound a bit like MJ. But his voice has a very short learning curve: after hearing him just a few times, I found it very easy to recognize his voice and he never really sounded like anything even close to MJ to me anymore - rather just like a guy who tries to sing like MJ.

I guess superficially he is a decent impersonator, but there are so many obvious differences between his and MJ's voice: JM has a different pronunciation, accent and vibrato, a lack of emotion in his voice and just a distinctly different overall timbre. The singer of the Cascio tracks ticks all these boxes as well.
 
Garden said:
OK Chamife.
Only... all that publicity for JM...
And it's time I go now, see you next time :)
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I wanted you to hear that the vibrato is the same on the album and in Jason's live performance (his natural voice). That's why I posted the clips.

Have you listened to them?

PS: I'm not trying to convert anyone..:D. Just conversating.
 
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@ Chamife, @ SoCav, we have a good conversation, thank you both of you!... But... I said (yesterday and still) that I didn't really want to come debating. I am sorry. Feel free to send a PM to me. Chamife, ik antwoordde je per PM.
 
Pentum said:
This is all I need to post, I let it speak for itself.
Listen to Soldier Boy, then listen to this.

http://soundcloud.com/pentum/do-i-do-hq-snippet-aca

Same whiny, yelping voice, same goaty vibrato, same falsetto/head voice, even the "dah" sounds like one of the dahs that are not copy pasted in Breaking News.
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How could anyone not possibly realise that's the same person? It's like looking at a blue sky and denying it's blue. It's there for all to see as much as this is there for all to hear.
 
Around 04:25 the young fella brings up the Cascio songs


Edit: Wow, what a bullshitter.... Look how he changes when he starts talking about the recording sessions.

This is good.
 
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Also notice how he uses the same believer assumption excuse i.e. "Would SONY risk releasing three songs that aren't Michael's voice?" Besides, you'd think that he would ask Eddie all about the recording sessions so he could deal with these inevitable questions!!

Oh, and I love how he becomes very passive-aggressive during his response!
 
you can tell he doesnt know, and he is lying....imo I also basically think he said theres no pictures or video of the sessions without trying to come out and say it
 
Frank distance himself from the Michael album and his bother Eddie yet defends the tracks at the same time. o_O That was weird. He says the leak version of BN was different then the album version in his opinion and thought when he first heard it that is wasn't MJ too. That he never heard of Jason Malachi until the controversy and wanted to find him so he can speak out but, Jason hasn't said anything pubicly. Frank says that the only thing he is guilty of is bringing MJ back into the studio to get back to singin and dancin. And if we look at the credits on Thriller 25 we will see that the remixes were recorded in Jersey like the the 3 cascio songs were so they are MJ! Then he says the controversy was because of greed and jelously when someone brought up the Jackson family being against the tracks and for people to read between the lines! WTF?!
 
How shaky his voice gets when he has to answer that embarrassing question: "how do you explain we have no doubts when a song leaks, except for the Cascio songs. "

Ignoring the elephant in the room and publishing the book without a single line about the elephant.... lol
 
bluetopez said:
Frank distance himself from the Michael album and his bother Eddie yet defends the tracks at the same time. o_O That was weird. He says the leak version of BN was different then the album version in his opinion and thought when he first heard it that is wasn't MJ too. That he never heard of Jason Malachi until the controversy and wanted to find him so he can speak out but, Jason hasn't said anything pubicly. Frank says that the only thing he is guilty of is bringing MJ back into the studio to get back to singin and dancin. And if we look at the credits on Thriller 25 we will see that the remixes were recorded in Jersey like the the 3 cascio songs were so they are MJ! Then he says the controversy was because of greed and jelously when someone brought up the Jackson family being against the tracks and for people to read between the lines! WTF?!
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Does he say all this in that clip? I skimmed through it and listened to it on crappy speakers and therefore could not make out most of it right now, but from what I did get I did not hear him say anything about JM? Where in the clip does he say that?
 
Jason Malachi, I know you are reading this thread. Be a man and make a statement on Youtube to clear things up as you used to do it with the song "Don't walk away".
 
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