larry141094
Proud Member
Uhh no actually the default position is that he IS on the tracks, it's an official MJ Album, the Estate have made their statement and there is NO evidence to the contrary. Ergo the burden of proof is on you
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Uhh no actually the default position is that he IS on the tracks, it's an official MJ Album, the Estate have made their statement and there is NO evidence to the contrary. Ergo the burden of proof is on you
Lucilla
Proud Member
larry141094
Proud Member
I hear Michael, you hear Jason, someone else hears a magical robot from venus. That is NOT proof, that is subjective evidence based on interperatation. Ever seen an optical illusion? Yeah our senses are never 100% accurate, they are not even 50% accurate at times. So as i said, perform some waveform analysis (which you can hire people to do) that contradicts Sony's statement and i will listen to you. That is valid scientifically verifiable proof
Lucilla
Proud Member
larry141094
Proud Member
I don't need to, i have the default position. That's like asking me for scientific proof of God, i dont need the proof, i have the default position. Sony performed Waveform analysis, told us the results and put the songs on the album. Fair enough, they then tell us the names of 6 producers who concur with this conclusion. Sony could have easily rejected the Cascio's and just grabbed 3 other tracks from the library, it wouldn't of made any difference. Citing "money" as their reason is not only illogical but just plain stupid. 3 Songs are going to make them money??? Use your heads, they had far more to lose by spending money on testing and editing.
Lucilla
Proud Member
Then you have "faith" in the Estate/Sony Ok.
We have "faith" in our ears.
At least you have to admit that it's equally valid when there's no proof to show us whether is MJ in those tracks or not.
Didn't show us the analysis or the name of those who performed those analysis.
There are 12 songs not only 3.
larry141094
Proud Member
The reason i believe Sony, is because they have more to lose putting those tracks out, so it makes sense that they would have done the analysis. Not giving us the details on the Analysis was a big mistake on their part, but it in no way invalidates their claim, if you REALLY believed what you were saying, you would get you own analysis done, present the results and publicly destroy Sony... which no one has done.
The 3 songs that made it on the Album... yeah easily replaceable and nothing to gain from it.
StellaJackson
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Well let's see. We have 12 songs that did not materialise until almost a year after Michael died. There is no traceable evidence that Michael had anything to do with these songs whatsoever. No notes, no outtakes, nothing. We have a vibrato, snorts, pronunciation, accent and timbre which don't match Michael at all. Those vocal nuances cannot be found in any MJ recording ever. However, they can be found in every Jason Cupeta track ever. We have the fact that Jason disappeared off the face of the earth following the release of these songs and very flimsy answers from his management. There is also the fact that classic MJ trademarks, such as finger snaps, handclaps, footstomps and headphone bleeding, which are to be found all over other MJ songs, are not to be found on the lead vocal channel of any of these songs. Then we have the fact that the only two witnesses to these songs attempted to sell them to Sony for a million dollars a track without even bothering to mention the fact that they had them to Michael's own children. Then there is the fact that a huge portion of Michael's fan base can't even hear him or recognise the voice on the songs. Then there is the excuses. "Michael recorded in the shower." "He recorded through a PVC pipe." "We used melodyne" (proven to be a lie based on the pre-Riley versions). "We deleted the vocals off the hard drive." "The hard drive was broken." No mention of any Cascio tracks in the list of songs Michael was working on in his home. And as for Sony's forensic tests? What tests? Where are the results? They didn't even test against the most likely candidate. They got an opinion, nothing more. The fans have shown, using comparisons that the voice is an exact match for Cupeta. You may say those are not scientific but where are the comparisons that show any aspect of these songs that actually matches Michael? Also, we are expected to believe that Michael recorded multiple takes for a dozen songs yet failed to do a single ad lib on any of them. Or the fact that Michael supposedly co wrote these songs despite some of them existing up to two years before he even stayed at the Cascio's. The fact that the Cascio's failed to provide any single scrap of evidence whatsoever of Michael's involvement. When all is taken into consideration, fans are absolutely right to demand answers as we have not yet been given any satisfactory explanation beyond the obvious. It should be noted that the wave form analysis which you refer to is not scientifically accurate and I find it shocking that you would trust such claims without any evidence then come here and accuse us of not having any. And also, I do not believe, and I don't think any doubters do believe, that Sony and/or the Estate were in any way involved in making fake tracks. And before you start the old "why don't you do something about it" line, I can tell you that something is being done. Two major things actually (again not Birchey related, nothing to do with that). Don't worry, you won't miss them.
And most importantly of all, there are twelve songs (which I presume you've heard all of) which sound extremely dissimilar to MJ but exactly like JC. Maybe enough like Michael to fool those who were desperately searching for material to put on this, and future albums, but to fool fans like me who've been listening to Michael every day for decades? Not a chance. And I personally find it an insult to Michael, his children and his fans that such an appalling situation ever occurred. The fact that Jason was identified before any fans even heard the songs should have been a warning sign, but to continue with their release following the reaction to Breaking News showed a level of incompetence that is almost unbelievable. The damage, pain and stress caused by these songs amongst the fans was certainly not worth it, not to mention the fact that they destroyed any chance the album had. You can call us conspiracy theorists if you like. I couldn't really care less. What I do care about however is the musical legacy of the greatest entertainer who ever lived and a wonderful man, and I for one will not accept such flimsy explanations for songs and the circumstances surrounding them, which should be highly suspicious to even the most casual of fan. What I will ask is that you don't come on here and call our claims "silly" simply for having a genuine concern for the legacy of our idol. It says a lot more about you than it does us.
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I think you are asking the wrong people for evidence. The onus is on those who claim it is Michael.
I am sorry, but they release tracks and give their word it is Michael Jackson. That's not very serious. Although they legally represent Michael, they are NOT Michael, thus the onus is on them to show us.
And what have they shown us? Name one single thing that they have shown us it is MJ:
-handwritten notes?
-worktapes?
-pictures?
-videos?
-forensics' identities, their analysis and/or their written conclusion?
-demos?
-unused material?
-original a cappellas before hee-hees, aows, dahs and the words were copy-pasted from Invincible?
-the reason why would forensics believe it is MJ and not JM?
And some people are asking fans to provide the proof? This must be some kind of joke.
Why you believers don't unite with the doubters regardless of what you hear and request the same proofs from the Estate or Eddie? What harm can it do to MJ's legacy to ask for those proofs? Who's side are you on, Michael's or people's who release songs on behalf of MJ without providing us with single evidence? Why having faith in the Estate's word more than in the proof itself that hasn't been shown so far? Why defending Eddie's and Jason's silence? Wake up.
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Rudolf
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And most of all they don't sound like Michael AT ALL to me. Vibrato plus lack of deepness. It sounds just and only like Jason Malachi.
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[h=2]Charles Thomson (@CEThomson)[/h]
My OPINION on the Cascio tracks, and how I reached it:
When Breaking News first dropped and the fans were hysterical, posting all over the internet that the vocals were fake, I couldn’t bring myself to believe it. Not because of any particular loyalty to the Estate and certainly not because of any particular loyalty to Sony. Put simply, I couldn’t get my head around the fact that such an enormous fraud was possible.
Why would either party take such an enormous risk? If it came out, it’d be the biggest humiliation in Sony’s history. The financial ramifications would be extraordinary. Every fan with a copy would demand a refund. Tens or hundreds of thousands of CDs would have to be recalled. What would be the point?
Everybody knew that Michael Jackson left a wealth of unreleased material behind when he died. Why take such a gamble on releasing fake songs with so many real ones in the vault?
But something niggled. The vocals didn’t sound right. The odd exclamation or hiccup sounded convincing, but for the most point the vocal was off kilter. The falsetto wasn’t the one we were used to. Michael’s pronunciation was off. The vibrato didn’t sound like his. But the song was badly produced enough that it was really difficult to tell either way and there were enough tiny snippets of legitimate Jackson vocals pasted in from other songs that I continued to tell myself: ‘They can’t have released fake tracks. It’s just too insane.’
Nonetheless, the fans’ anger showed no signs of calming. Especially not when the other two tracks hit the public domain. Breaking News might just have passed for a Michael Jackson track if people weren’t paying close attention, but Monster and Keep Your Head Up sounded nothing like him. The phrasing, the pitch, the falsetto, the vibrato, the accent – it was all wrong. It just didn’t sound like Michael Jackson.
On top of all that, the songs were appalling. Would Michael Jackson really lend himself to a song as feeble as Monster? Would he really demean himself in such a way? Would he really waste his talent on nonsensical lyrics like, ‘Mama say mama got you in a zig-zag’? It was a hard pill to swallow. Still, though, I kept saying to myself: ‘How would they get away with such a fraud? And why bother?’
Nonetheless, it wasn’t just fans who questioned the vocals. Several members of Jackson’s family, including his children, were firm in their belief that the songs were fraudulent. So were others close to the star.
Jennifer Batten, who toured with Jackson for 10 years, hearing him rehearse and perform live on a daily basis for months at a time, said the tracks didn’t sound like him.
Rodney Jerkins, who recorded Jackson’s final album, said the vocals didn’t sound like him. Cory Rooney, who also worked on that album, said the tracks didn’t sound like him.
Chucky Klapow, present at Jackson’s final live vocal rehearsals, said the vocals didn’t sound like Jackson. Karen Faye, also present at Jackson’s final live vocal rehearsals, publicly stated that the vocals didn’t sound like Jackson.
The first strong doubt hit me when J Randy Taraborrelli was invited to interview the Estate for TV and print. The interview was organised in response to the vocal controversy - but it raised more questions than it answered.
The Estate told JRT that after the Michael album, it had 17 more unreleased tracks which were good enough for release. Just 17. Everybody Jackson ever worked with attests to the fact that he over-recorded, producing dozens of songs per album. Where all that music has disappeared to is a mystery - perhaps they just can't find them, perhaps they were stolen, perhaps there are tonnes but they aren't good enough for release.
The salient information, though, is that in that interview, the Estate said it had just 17. That, presumably, included the remaining nine Cascio tracks.
Far from combating the vocal scandal, the interview gave credence to the conspiracy theory. The biggest counter-question to the fake vocal claims was, ‘What would be the point of putting out fake tracks?’ The logical answer now seemed apparent: because there’s a shortfall of real ones.
By now, voice comparison clips were cropping up all over YouTube, comparing the vocals on the Cascio tracks to Michael Jackson’s vocals and then to Jason Malachi’s. The accent, the falsetto, the vibrato – to the naked ear they all differed from Jackson’s enormously, but appeared to match Malachi’s exactly.
Those clips were yanked down usually within an hour of being uploaded, while hundreds of thousands of other Michael Jackson videos, also uploaded without copyright consent, remained online. Somebody seemed intent on suppressing them.
Before long, Jason Malachi’s long-time producer Tony Kurtis came forward to expose what he felt was a terrible injustice.
"This record is not Michael,” he wrote online. “If I knew how to get in contact with his family, I would, 'cause this is really wrong... It is Jason, based on me working with him, training him and knowing his voice... The songs are fake.
“This recording is not [Michael]... Michael's kids are right: that's not daddy's voice, as they said... I can pick Jason voice out of 50 voices playing at the same time... I [produced] the Jason Malachi records, which is why I know the vocals are him.
“I recorded [with Jason] for 10 years off and on. We could never get him as tight as Michael, 'cause Michael can really sing. Jason is tone deaf... MJ vibrato isn't as fast as Jason's, plus Jason over uses his. Michael can really sing; he don't use it as much... A two-year-old can hear that this is the same person."
As the pressure on the Estate mounted, lots of claims began to leak out. The Estate, by the way, is run by two men: John Branca and John McClain. One half of the Estate – John McClain – was very clear in his stance on the Cascio tracks: He believed they were fake. Fans often throw their weight behind the Estate where this issue is concerned, apparently forgetting that the Estate itself is divided.
Nonetheless, the Estate began making assertions both directly and via gossip columnists. There were pictures and videos of Jackson in the studio recording the Cascio tracks, fans were told. There were handwritten lyrics. Besides, voice analysis comparisons had been carried out and proved the vocals were Jackson’s.
The controversy rumbled on and the album’s sales suffered badly. The collection didn’t chart spectacularly and fell from view with lightning speed. Such was the pitiful response that the Estate was forced to put out fluff-statements about how the album was the year’s 'most shipped'. All that meant was that shops all over the world were lumbered with countless copies of an album which they couldn’t shift. Within just a few months of release, you could pick it up in any UK branch of HMV for the bargain bin price of £3.
The answer to the Estate’s album woes seemed clear to me. If the Estate had all this proof, it should just release it. But every time it was challenged to do so, it declined, offering up pitiful excuses such as that it didn’t want to drag innocent (and extortionately expensive) forensic audiologists into the limelight.
The Estate’s next move, rather than release any actual proof, was to release a statement containing the names of several industry players who had apparently attended a meeting and confirmed that the vocals were Jackson’s.
But within hours of the statement’s release, people from inside the meeting blasted the statement as a fabrication.
They included Cory Rooney, who worked on Jackson's Invincible album and is highly-respected by much of the star's fanbase thanks to a number of insightful interviews given after Jackson's death.
Rooney said: "I have read the statement from the MJ Estate, and I have to say that it's just more bullshit! I was in that room, and the majority of the people mentioned did not agree that it was MJ! Some felt it sounded like him, but all agree that there was nothing there that was consistent with any MJ habits like finger snaps, headphone bleeding, foot stomping or just simple things like his voice asking for another take.”
(The Cascios claim they deleted all Jackson’s outtake vocals to make space on a hard drive. Yes. Really.)
Rooney continued: “Both Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley sat with Taryll Jackson and myself and stated that they felt what we felt. As for the specialists that were brought in, I don't think anyone from the actual Jackson family got any direct confirmation that made them feel any different then what they have felt all along.”
Rooney’s comments were supported by an interview with Quincy Jones. The Estate statement claimed Jones had confirmed the vocals were Jacksons, but in an interview with Roger Friedman he repeatedly stated that he hadn’t been able to tell either way.
Pro-Estate/Cascio fans often point to the number of alleged participants in the meeting who have never come forward to deny that they endorsed the tracks, apparently failing to make the connection between the fact that all of these people work in the music industry and might have a very good reason not to want to piss off the world’s biggest record label.
My response to them is: What does Cory Rooney get out of challenging the statement? Money? No. Fame? No. The only tangible consequence would be that he would effectively burn any bridges he might have with Sony, which would be ultimately detrimental to his career. In short, Rooney has no reason to challenge the label, but the others have very good reasons not to.
Two months after the album’s release, fans were informed that the Cascios would appear on Oprah and present proof that the songs were real. I tuned in. The Cascios chatted for a while. Then it was the end. The failed to present any proof of the songs' veracity whatsoever.
It was at this point that I just accepted the so-called proof simply did not exist.
Excuses were still forthcoming. Teddy Riley claimed the vocals sounded odd because he had used melodyne on Jackson’s voice. Fans quickly rebuffed this claim by posting their own clips of Jackson’s voice, melodyned into oblivion – lo’ and behold: it still sounded like Michael Jackson. Melodyne might explain a change in pitch, but not a change in accent or vibrato.
Former Jason Malachi producer echoed this sentiment. He wrote: “I am saying as a sound expert this recording is without a doubt Jason Cupeta. ...They pitched the vocals to try and make [Jason] sound more like Michael. I have Michael Jackson a cappella vocals, as well. You can pitch MJ vocals all day; they won't sound anything like [Breaking News].”
Similarly, the Cascios – by now having abandoned any premise that they would present ‘proof’ that the songs were real – began offering all manner of insane explanations as to why Jackson’s vocals sounded weird, from that he’d sung them through a cardboard tube to that he’d sung them in a shower.
Again, this may account for a change in the sound of Jackson’s voice, but not his accent or vibrato.
Moreover, the posthumous album included one Jackson track recorded just months before he died – Best Of Joy. In the track, his voice sounds the same as it ever did. Why would it suddenly change for the Cascio tracks, then suddenly revert back again for Best Of Joy? None of it made any sense.
Other collaborators – professional musicians – worked with Jackson for a year or more and produced two to four tracks. The Cascios claimed to have worked with Jackson for three months and recorded an entire album.
There were also chronological issues with the tracks. They claimed all 12 tracks were co-written with Jackson, but one – Soldier Boy – had already been written and registered a year before the alleged recording sessions.
With the evidence stacking up against the Cascio tracks, the Estate still failed to produce a single shred of evidence as to the tracks’ authenticity. To date, this remains the case.
Put yourself in Sony/the Estate’s shoes. Huge swathes of the fan community are boycotting the album. It doesn’t chart spectacularly and disappears from view pretty quickly. The main topic on every fansite (except the ones which censor it) is the veracity of the vocals on the Cascio tracks.
Newspapers and magazines and TV shows are questioning their authenticity. You, the Estate, have proof that they’re all wrong. You have voice analysis. You have pictures or videos or handwritten lyrics.
Why wouldn’t you release them?
It’s a no-brainer. If the album is suffering, and you have proof at your fingertips which can end it once and for all, you release it. It’s not even arguable. You would release the proof. All it can do is help you.
If the Estate had proof, we’d have seen it by now. It’s as simple as that.
The favourite get-out clause of the fans who support the Estate and the Cascio tracks – some of whom I believe to be paid by the Estate – is that until the doubters produce concrete proof that the tracks are fake, their claims are without basis.
The content of this tweet alone, which doesn’t even begin to scrape the surface, is more than enough proof that, at the very least, the claims are not without basis.
Besides, those fans miss the point.
When somebody steps forward with a collection of apparently unreleased Michael Jackson songs, conveniently copyrighted just two days after his death and recorded without the knowledge of anybody on Jackson’s payroll, the onus is not on anybody else to prove that the tracks are fake. It is on the vendors to prove that the tracks are real.
In the case of the Cascio tracks, nobody has ever been able to do so. Proof has been promised time and again, but it has never materialised.
If I were to announce tomorrow that I was the custodian of 12 tracks Michael Jackson had secretly recorded in my shower through a cardboard tube, the onus would be on me to prove that the tracks were real. Why were the Cascio tracks not placed under the same scrutiny?
There is no known evidence in existence which remotely connects Jackson to any of the 12 tracks the Cascios claim he co-wrote and recorded.
On the other hand, there are significant factors which undermine any claim of Jackson’s involvement: The fact that at least one song was written a year before the sessions, the fact that the vocals sound nothing like Jackson, the fact that all the outtake vocals were ‘deleted’, the fact that the promised photos and videos never materialised, the fact that Jackson’s apparent prolific work rate was completely at odds with other collaborators’ contemporaneous experiences... and so on.
I defy any right-thinking individual to take all of this information and claim that there isn’t reasonable doubt as to the tracks’ authenticity. And I question the motives of those who blindly promote the tracks in the face of all this evidence, and the wealth of other evidence which I didn’t include in this tweet.
Posted Thursday 10th May 2012 from Twitlonger
My OPINION on the Cascio tracks, and how I reached it:
When Breaking News first dropped and the fans were hysterical, posting all over the internet that the vocals were fake, I couldn’t bring myself to believe it. Not because of any particular loyalty to the Estate and certainly not because of any particular loyalty to Sony. Put simply, I couldn’t get my head around the fact that such an enormous fraud was possible.
Why would either party take such an enormous risk? If it came out, it’d be the biggest humiliation in Sony’s history. The financial ramifications would be extraordinary. Every fan with a copy would demand a refund. Tens or hundreds of thousands of CDs would have to be recalled. What would be the point?
Everybody knew that Michael Jackson left a wealth of unreleased material behind when he died. Why take such a gamble on releasing fake songs with so many real ones in the vault?
But something niggled. The vocals didn’t sound right. The odd exclamation or hiccup sounded convincing, but for the most point the vocal was off kilter. The falsetto wasn’t the one we were used to. Michael’s pronunciation was off. The vibrato didn’t sound like his. But the song was badly produced enough that it was really difficult to tell either way and there were enough tiny snippets of legitimate Jackson vocals pasted in from other songs that I continued to tell myself: ‘They can’t have released fake tracks. It’s just too insane.’
Nonetheless, the fans’ anger showed no signs of calming. Especially not when the other two tracks hit the public domain. Breaking News might just have passed for a Michael Jackson track if people weren’t paying close attention, but Monster and Keep Your Head Up sounded nothing like him. The phrasing, the pitch, the falsetto, the vibrato, the accent – it was all wrong. It just didn’t sound like Michael Jackson.
On top of all that, the songs were appalling. Would Michael Jackson really lend himself to a song as feeble as Monster? Would he really demean himself in such a way? Would he really waste his talent on nonsensical lyrics like, ‘Mama say mama got you in a zig-zag’? It was a hard pill to swallow. Still, though, I kept saying to myself: ‘How would they get away with such a fraud? And why bother?’
Nonetheless, it wasn’t just fans who questioned the vocals. Several members of Jackson’s family, including his children, were firm in their belief that the songs were fraudulent. So were others close to the star.
Jennifer Batten, who toured with Jackson for 10 years, hearing him rehearse and perform live on a daily basis for months at a time, said the tracks didn’t sound like him.
Rodney Jerkins, who recorded Jackson’s final album, said the vocals didn’t sound like him. Cory Rooney, who also worked on that album, said the tracks didn’t sound like him.
Chucky Klapow, present at Jackson’s final live vocal rehearsals, said the vocals didn’t sound like Jackson. Karen Faye, also present at Jackson’s final live vocal rehearsals, publicly stated that the vocals didn’t sound like Jackson.
The first strong doubt hit me when J Randy Taraborrelli was invited to interview the Estate for TV and print. The interview was organised in response to the vocal controversy - but it raised more questions than it answered.
The Estate told JRT that after the Michael album, it had 17 more unreleased tracks which were good enough for release. Just 17. Everybody Jackson ever worked with attests to the fact that he over-recorded, producing dozens of songs per album. Where all that music has disappeared to is a mystery - perhaps they just can't find them, perhaps they were stolen, perhaps there are tonnes but they aren't good enough for release.
The salient information, though, is that in that interview, the Estate said it had just 17. That, presumably, included the remaining nine Cascio tracks.
Far from combating the vocal scandal, the interview gave credence to the conspiracy theory. The biggest counter-question to the fake vocal claims was, ‘What would be the point of putting out fake tracks?’ The logical answer now seemed apparent: because there’s a shortfall of real ones.
By now, voice comparison clips were cropping up all over YouTube, comparing the vocals on the Cascio tracks to Michael Jackson’s vocals and then to Jason Malachi’s. The accent, the falsetto, the vibrato – to the naked ear they all differed from Jackson’s enormously, but appeared to match Malachi’s exactly.
Those clips were yanked down usually within an hour of being uploaded, while hundreds of thousands of other Michael Jackson videos, also uploaded without copyright consent, remained online. Somebody seemed intent on suppressing them.
Before long, Jason Malachi’s long-time producer Tony Kurtis came forward to expose what he felt was a terrible injustice.
"This record is not Michael,” he wrote online. “If I knew how to get in contact with his family, I would, 'cause this is really wrong... It is Jason, based on me working with him, training him and knowing his voice... The songs are fake.
“This recording is not [Michael]... Michael's kids are right: that's not daddy's voice, as they said... I can pick Jason voice out of 50 voices playing at the same time... I [produced] the Jason Malachi records, which is why I know the vocals are him.
“I recorded [with Jason] for 10 years off and on. We could never get him as tight as Michael, 'cause Michael can really sing. Jason is tone deaf... MJ vibrato isn't as fast as Jason's, plus Jason over uses his. Michael can really sing; he don't use it as much... A two-year-old can hear that this is the same person."
As the pressure on the Estate mounted, lots of claims began to leak out. The Estate, by the way, is run by two men: John Branca and John McClain. One half of the Estate – John McClain – was very clear in his stance on the Cascio tracks: He believed they were fake. Fans often throw their weight behind the Estate where this issue is concerned, apparently forgetting that the Estate itself is divided.
Nonetheless, the Estate began making assertions both directly and via gossip columnists. There were pictures and videos of Jackson in the studio recording the Cascio tracks, fans were told. There were handwritten lyrics. Besides, voice analysis comparisons had been carried out and proved the vocals were Jackson’s.
The controversy rumbled on and the album’s sales suffered badly. The collection didn’t chart spectacularly and fell from view with lightning speed. Such was the pitiful response that the Estate was forced to put out fluff-statements about how the album was the year’s 'most shipped'. All that meant was that shops all over the world were lumbered with countless copies of an album which they couldn’t shift. Within just a few months of release, you could pick it up in any UK branch of HMV for the bargain bin price of £3.
The answer to the Estate’s album woes seemed clear to me. If the Estate had all this proof, it should just release it. But every time it was challenged to do so, it declined, offering up pitiful excuses such as that it didn’t want to drag innocent (and extortionately expensive) forensic audiologists into the limelight.
The Estate’s next move, rather than release any actual proof, was to release a statement containing the names of several industry players who had apparently attended a meeting and confirmed that the vocals were Jackson’s.
But within hours of the statement’s release, people from inside the meeting blasted the statement as a fabrication.
They included Cory Rooney, who worked on Jackson's Invincible album and is highly-respected by much of the star's fanbase thanks to a number of insightful interviews given after Jackson's death.
Rooney said: "I have read the statement from the MJ Estate, and I have to say that it's just more bullshit! I was in that room, and the majority of the people mentioned did not agree that it was MJ! Some felt it sounded like him, but all agree that there was nothing there that was consistent with any MJ habits like finger snaps, headphone bleeding, foot stomping or just simple things like his voice asking for another take.”
(The Cascios claim they deleted all Jackson’s outtake vocals to make space on a hard drive. Yes. Really.)
Rooney continued: “Both Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley sat with Taryll Jackson and myself and stated that they felt what we felt. As for the specialists that were brought in, I don't think anyone from the actual Jackson family got any direct confirmation that made them feel any different then what they have felt all along.”
Rooney’s comments were supported by an interview with Quincy Jones. The Estate statement claimed Jones had confirmed the vocals were Jacksons, but in an interview with Roger Friedman he repeatedly stated that he hadn’t been able to tell either way.
Pro-Estate/Cascio fans often point to the number of alleged participants in the meeting who have never come forward to deny that they endorsed the tracks, apparently failing to make the connection between the fact that all of these people work in the music industry and might have a very good reason not to want to piss off the world’s biggest record label.
My response to them is: What does Cory Rooney get out of challenging the statement? Money? No. Fame? No. The only tangible consequence would be that he would effectively burn any bridges he might have with Sony, which would be ultimately detrimental to his career. In short, Rooney has no reason to challenge the label, but the others have very good reasons not to.
Two months after the album’s release, fans were informed that the Cascios would appear on Oprah and present proof that the songs were real. I tuned in. The Cascios chatted for a while. Then it was the end. The failed to present any proof of the songs' veracity whatsoever.
It was at this point that I just accepted the so-called proof simply did not exist.
Excuses were still forthcoming. Teddy Riley claimed the vocals sounded odd because he had used melodyne on Jackson’s voice. Fans quickly rebuffed this claim by posting their own clips of Jackson’s voice, melodyned into oblivion – lo’ and behold: it still sounded like Michael Jackson. Melodyne might explain a change in pitch, but not a change in accent or vibrato.
Former Jason Malachi producer echoed this sentiment. He wrote: “I am saying as a sound expert this recording is without a doubt Jason Cupeta. ...They pitched the vocals to try and make [Jason] sound more like Michael. I have Michael Jackson a cappella vocals, as well. You can pitch MJ vocals all day; they won't sound anything like [Breaking News].”
Similarly, the Cascios – by now having abandoned any premise that they would present ‘proof’ that the songs were real – began offering all manner of insane explanations as to why Jackson’s vocals sounded weird, from that he’d sung them through a cardboard tube to that he’d sung them in a shower.
Again, this may account for a change in the sound of Jackson’s voice, but not his accent or vibrato.
Moreover, the posthumous album included one Jackson track recorded just months before he died – Best Of Joy. In the track, his voice sounds the same as it ever did. Why would it suddenly change for the Cascio tracks, then suddenly revert back again for Best Of Joy? None of it made any sense.
Other collaborators – professional musicians – worked with Jackson for a year or more and produced two to four tracks. The Cascios claimed to have worked with Jackson for three months and recorded an entire album.
There were also chronological issues with the tracks. They claimed all 12 tracks were co-written with Jackson, but one – Soldier Boy – had already been written and registered a year before the alleged recording sessions.
With the evidence stacking up against the Cascio tracks, the Estate still failed to produce a single shred of evidence as to the tracks’ authenticity. To date, this remains the case.
Put yourself in Sony/the Estate’s shoes. Huge swathes of the fan community are boycotting the album. It doesn’t chart spectacularly and disappears from view pretty quickly. The main topic on every fansite (except the ones which censor it) is the veracity of the vocals on the Cascio tracks.
Newspapers and magazines and TV shows are questioning their authenticity. You, the Estate, have proof that they’re all wrong. You have voice analysis. You have pictures or videos or handwritten lyrics.
Why wouldn’t you release them?
It’s a no-brainer. If the album is suffering, and you have proof at your fingertips which can end it once and for all, you release it. It’s not even arguable. You would release the proof. All it can do is help you.
If the Estate had proof, we’d have seen it by now. It’s as simple as that.
The favourite get-out clause of the fans who support the Estate and the Cascio tracks – some of whom I believe to be paid by the Estate – is that until the doubters produce concrete proof that the tracks are fake, their claims are without basis.
The content of this tweet alone, which doesn’t even begin to scrape the surface, is more than enough proof that, at the very least, the claims are not without basis.
Besides, those fans miss the point.
When somebody steps forward with a collection of apparently unreleased Michael Jackson songs, conveniently copyrighted just two days after his death and recorded without the knowledge of anybody on Jackson’s payroll, the onus is not on anybody else to prove that the tracks are fake. It is on the vendors to prove that the tracks are real.
In the case of the Cascio tracks, nobody has ever been able to do so. Proof has been promised time and again, but it has never materialised.
If I were to announce tomorrow that I was the custodian of 12 tracks Michael Jackson had secretly recorded in my shower through a cardboard tube, the onus would be on me to prove that the tracks were real. Why were the Cascio tracks not placed under the same scrutiny?
There is no known evidence in existence which remotely connects Jackson to any of the 12 tracks the Cascios claim he co-wrote and recorded.
On the other hand, there are significant factors which undermine any claim of Jackson’s involvement: The fact that at least one song was written a year before the sessions, the fact that the vocals sound nothing like Jackson, the fact that all the outtake vocals were ‘deleted’, the fact that the promised photos and videos never materialised, the fact that Jackson’s apparent prolific work rate was completely at odds with other collaborators’ contemporaneous experiences... and so on.
I defy any right-thinking individual to take all of this information and claim that there isn’t reasonable doubt as to the tracks’ authenticity. And I question the motives of those who blindly promote the tracks in the face of all this evidence, and the wealth of other evidence which I didn’t include in this tweet.
I'm sorry but when I see claims like that I can't help but ask for details. At least, when is it going to happen? You've been saying things like that for months (fans allagely suing Eddie Cascio) but thus far nothing happened.
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Patience is a virtue.
Billyjeanplxiv
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Janurary 2013. It all comes donw. Hail Birchey.
Paw
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Good day,all the believers and doubters.Glad to see yall go in circle again.lol
Hmmm,what about a Q&A with JM?
Nah,I mean John McClain.He has your answers.
What about another Q&A with Cory Rooney?
He and Taryll Jackson lied a lot about this controversy,maybe we can call them unknowers or blabbers?
Don't be messin' around,let's do it!
lol.
Hmmm,what about a Q&A with JM?
Nah,I mean John McClain.He has your answers.
What about another Q&A with Cory Rooney?
He and Taryll Jackson lied a lot about this controversy,maybe we can call them unknowers or blabbers?
Don't be messin' around,let's do it!
lol.
larry141094
Proud Member
I am not aware of what "Birchey" is intending to do, but until he does you still have ziltch.
All your conclusions are based on assumptions which are unfalsifiable, this is a logical fallacy.
I highly doubt that there are only 17 "good tracks including the 9 Cascio ones", just a simple count of known unreleased material will tell you that this is dead wrong. (3 tracks with Will.I.Am, A Place With No Name, Blue Gangsta, River Ripple, Red Eye, D.I.E, Bassouille, Bottle of Smoke, DYKWYCA, STTR, Do You Want Me + DOZENS more) So, i would suggest that we dont go with Tabloids and rumours and actually stick with what we know.
The Cascios were friends with Michael, Sony had no reason to trust the Cascios and so would have done an investigation, the findings have not been publicly revealed, but to say it didnt happen is a blind assumption that is not based on any current evidence. Michael didn't "finish" the Cascio tracks, there were no backing vocals or instrumentals, and the Cascios not having the originals is a pain in the butt. We also know that some people hear Michael, other people hear JM and others hear whoever else they hear on the track, all this proves is something science already knows, that humans hear things differently.
Conclusion, Michael is on the tracks until someone comes up with CONCLUSIVE evidence to the contrary.
All your conclusions are based on assumptions which are unfalsifiable, this is a logical fallacy.
I highly doubt that there are only 17 "good tracks including the 9 Cascio ones", just a simple count of known unreleased material will tell you that this is dead wrong. (3 tracks with Will.I.Am, A Place With No Name, Blue Gangsta, River Ripple, Red Eye, D.I.E, Bassouille, Bottle of Smoke, DYKWYCA, STTR, Do You Want Me + DOZENS more) So, i would suggest that we dont go with Tabloids and rumours and actually stick with what we know.
The Cascios were friends with Michael, Sony had no reason to trust the Cascios and so would have done an investigation, the findings have not been publicly revealed, but to say it didnt happen is a blind assumption that is not based on any current evidence. Michael didn't "finish" the Cascio tracks, there were no backing vocals or instrumentals, and the Cascios not having the originals is a pain in the butt. We also know that some people hear Michael, other people hear JM and others hear whoever else they hear on the track, all this proves is something science already knows, that humans hear things differently.
Conclusion, Michael is on the tracks until someone comes up with CONCLUSIVE evidence to the contrary.
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Assumptions?
Answer this:
Is it an assumption that those who released the tracks haven't provided us with a single proof?
larry141094
Proud Member
No it isn't, its a statement in the form of a rhetorical question. My answer is this, Sony gave us their statement with 6 producers who KNOW Michael and worked with him until his death to take a look and back up their claims. The Cascios also have no reason to lie, why would they? Take away the Cascio's and the 6 Producers, and you actually have something that may be of value. But because of the support of people who knew Michael, i would take that as an indication that Sony at the very least believes everything they are saying
Chamife
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Aniram
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Hello everyone! 
Life has been really busy for me lately, but I miss you guys and wanted to see how things were going so I came back to read up a little bit. There have been some very good posts recently, I'm interested in finding out what some of the major things are that are being done. I feel sick every time I am reminded of this horrible act that has been done to Michael and the fans. I think it's amazing that so many of the same faces are still here, fighting for it to be recognized. I have great respect for you, thank you!
Life has been really busy for me lately, but I miss you guys and wanted to see how things were going so I came back to read up a little bit. There have been some very good posts recently, I'm interested in finding out what some of the major things are that are being done. I feel sick every time I am reminded of this horrible act that has been done to Michael and the fans. I think it's amazing that so many of the same faces are still here, fighting for it to be recognized. I have great respect for you, thank you!larry141094
Proud Member
Hello everyone!
Michael would of hated what is happening, you guys are doing what everyone did to him. Buy into rumours and speculation and present them as fact
I have to admit that I'm getting more and more skeptical about such claims as well. this is not personally about Stella, I have heard from other people several things as well but the more I dig deeper into it they turned out to be nothing more than hopefully a future plan and not an actually started and ongoing thing.
OnirMJ
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6 tracks with will.iam, not 3.
larry141094
Proud Member
Only serves to prove my point
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For some things it takes months to be taken care of. If not years.
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It is a fact that there is no proof. Deal with it.