Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well, even though I share some views with you regarding the Cascio tracks and some Michael's political messages, I don't see Michael aligning himself with the Balck Panther movement. I know that you probably think of the MJ logo or the panther in the Black or White video, but claiming that he aligned himself with the movement would be way too radical for someone as Michael.

The seducing aspect of the Black Panthers is their pride. Proud to be black. Black is beautiful.

Michael indeed was proud to be black as he himself claimed it on the Oprah interview, but he never aligned himsef to any radical movement only because he was proud to be black. He was rather a humanitarian transcending all the races. It was precisely him who made such mix-ingredient music that all colors and nations could identify with, something which none other artist had done before. So, I wouldn't label him too much with one movement or another; he simply took out the best ingredient of each movement he could and made his own soup.

I fully agree with this Bumper!

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

A PPH (political powerhouse) is a PPH.

And an Angel is an Angel.

And to me Michael is & forever will be more of an Angel.

That explains everything, really.

 

[deano]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sanhabib.

I won't reply to most of your rantings, as you're increasingly coming across as a self-obsessed mad man, but I will respond to perhaps the most laughable (although that was a tough choice given what you said!);

Your quote;

"Yeah. The fact that the album has bombed internationally and has disappeared without trace in the weeks following it's release is a great thing right? At least one 'fan' is happy, then, right? The Estate must be overjoyed."

As you normally spout on about 'facts', you might be interested in the Mediatraffic World Charts positions for 'Michael';

Best Selling Album Worldwide
Wk 1 - #1
Wk 2 - #2
Wk 3 - #2
Wk 4 - #3

I'll let you know Wk 5 at the end of this week.

It's pretty comparable with 'This Is It' positions of #1, #1, #2, #5 - which was a Worldwide success - so 'Michael' has hardly "bombed" or "disappeared" has it?

Perhaps it is you who needs to check your facts before posting such nonsense.

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Make up your mind then. Either he's a political powerhouse or he isn't. And if he is, he isn't in moderation.

Samhabib, HE IS.
But not always at the same intensity and not always explicite. And like I said he is MORE.

When you make love to your baby, you feel like a POLITICAL POWERHOUSE?
OK, right on then!!!

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Or that the vocalist is someone completely different? No? Are we going to pretend that that's not a possibility? A distinct one at that?

Samhabib I don't exclude the possibility, in this world so much is possible.
I don't think it is what happened but it is not impossible.

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sanhabib.

I won't reply to most of your rantings, as you're increasingly coming across as a self-obsessed mad man, but I will respond to perhaps the most laughable (although that was a tough choice given what you said!);

Your quote;

"Yeah. The fact that the album has bombed internationally and has disappeared without trace in the weeks following it's release is a great thing right? At least one 'fan' is happy, then, right? The Estate must be overjoyed."

As you normally spout on about 'facts', you might be interested in the Mediatraffic World Charts positions for 'Michael';

Best Selling Album Worldwide
Wk 1 - #1
Wk 2 - #2
Wk 3 - #2
Wk 4 - #3

I'll let you know Wk 5 at the end of this week.

It's pretty comparable with 'This Is It' positions of #1, #1, #2, #5 - which was a Worldwide success - so 'Michael' has hardly "bombed" or "disappeared" has it?

Perhaps it is you who needs to check your facts before posting such nonsense.

Deano, this is interesting. But please take care of what you call people... because when you call somebody long enough an angel... he will become angel-like and when you call somebody a madman or something often enough... he will become a madman.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well, even though I share some views with you regarding the Cascio tracks and some Michael's political messages, I don't see Michael aligning himself with the Balck Panther movement. I know that you probably think of the MJ logo or the panther in the Black or White video, but claiming that he aligned himself with the movement would be way too radical for someone as Michael.

The seducing aspect of the Black Panthers is their pride. Proud to be black. Black is beautiful.

Michael indeed was proud to be black as he himself claimed it on the Oprah interview, but he never aligned himsef to any radical movement only because he was proud to be black. He was rather a humanitarian transcending all the races. It was precisely him who made such mix-ingredient music that all colors and nations could identify with, something which none other artist had done before. So, I wouldn't label him too much with one movement or another; he simply took out the best ingredient of each movement he could and made his own soup.

Really? You have a video by an African American man, during which he challenges the Ku Klux Klan, "I ain't scared of no sheets", destroys Nazi symbols before morphing into a black panther. A black panther. The same animal he referred to his sister as, 'Janet, you remind me of a black panther', when she was recording the most political album of her career, Rhythm Nation, while dressed up in similar uniforms as members of Stokeley Carmichael's Black Panthers. Coincidence? Really?

On her Rhythm Nation album, Janet WRITES and records a song called 'Black Cat' with the lyrics:

"Cause you're hangin out
Breakin' the rules
Oh The Man has come
Looking for you
You're a rebel now
Don't give a damn
Always carrying on
With the gang"

And that's a coincidence? And Michael says to her 'you remind me of a black panther' and that's a coincidence? In the video for Black Cat she fades in and out to images of a black panther roaring. And then just a year later Michael Jackson morphs into a black panther. Coincidence? Really?

During his Superbowl performance of Black or White Michael unfurls two banners of a picture of a black hand shaking a white hand. The image is IDENTICAL to the logo for the Student Non-Violent Co-ordinating Committee. Which was headed up by Stokeley Carmichael. Before he took the helm of the Black Panther party.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that's a coincidence?

And when Michael morphs back into a black panther, he almost identically, morphs into the world famous logo of the Black Panther party.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that he didn't know what he was doing? That that was all a coincidence? Because if you are it would be one hell of a stretch of the imagination.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sanhabib.

I won't reply to most of your rantings, as you're increasingly coming across as a self-obsessed mad man, but I will respond to perhaps the most laughable (although that was a tough choice given what you said!);

Your quote;

"Yeah. The fact that the album has bombed internationally and has disappeared without trace in the weeks following it's release is a great thing right? At least one 'fan' is happy, then, right? The Estate must be overjoyed."

As you normally spout on about 'facts', you might be interested in the Mediatraffic World Charts positions for 'Michael';

Best Selling Album Worldwide
Wk 1 - #1
Wk 2 - #2
Wk 3 - #2
Wk 4 - #3

I'll let you know Wk 5 at the end of this week.

It's pretty comparable with 'This Is It' positions of #1, #1, #2, #5 - which was a Worldwide success - so 'Michael' has hardly "bombed" or "disappeared" has it?

Perhaps it is you who needs to check your facts before posting such nonsense.

Self-obsessed mad-man? Ahhhh... let's see the Mods flood in to castigate you... I'm sure it's only a matter of time...

And Hold My Hand did what kind of business? And the second single, if there is one, is going to do what? Yeah... great success... Michael would love to be number 2 after one week of sales... that's exactly what he'd love!

You keep celebrating mediocrity all you want. Some of us cherish his peaks.

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It's like this - If I say Michael Jackson is one of the greatest vocalists of all time that DOESN'T mean I don't think he's one of the greatest dancers of all time. It's as simple as that.

You see we even can agree !

But now... do you remember how this talk about political powerhouse started?

I remember you almost making a statement that Michael wouldn't write one word in his lyrics that didn't have a political meaning... or am I wrong?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I remember you almost making a statement that Michael wouldn't write one word in his lyrics that didn't have a political meaning... or am I wrong?

Is this a joke? Go and find me that quote. Are you wrong? You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Is this a joke? Go and find me that quote. Are you wrong? You couldn't be more wrong.

No it is not a joke. I can find the quotes. Samhabib, but I will do us a favor : you say I was wrong (and I am glad I was) and I prefere to believe you right now.

Got to go offline now...

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

No it is not a joke. I can find the quotes. Samhabib, but I will do us a favor : you say I was wrong (and I am glad I was) and I prefere to believe you right now.

Got to go offline now...

I said Michael Jackson was ALWAYS profound, ie. He wouldn't write shit like 'Mama say mama got you in a zig zag' or 'she's working two jobs, she works in a restaurant night and day.'

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Really? You have a video by an African American man, during which he challenges the Ku Klux Klan, "I ain't scared of no sheets", destroys Nazi symbols before morphing into a black panther. A black panther. The same animal he referred to his sister as, 'Janet, you remind me of a black panther', when she was recording the most political album of her career, Rhythm Nation, while dressed up in similar uniforms as members of Stokeley Carmichael's Black Panthers. Coincidence? Really?

On her Rhythm Nation album, Janet WRITES and records a song called 'Black Cat' with the lyrics:

"Cause you're hangin out
Breakin' the rules
Oh The Man has come
Looking for you
You're a rebel now
Don't give a damn
Always carrying on
With the gang"

And that's a coincidence? And Michael says to her 'you remind me of a black panther' and that's a coincidence? In the video for Black Cat she fades in and out to images of a black panther roaring. And then just a year later Michael Jackson morphs into a black panther. Coincidence? Really?

During his Superbowl performance of Black or White Michael unfurls two banners of a picture of a black hand shaking a white hand. The image is IDENTICAL to the logo for the Student Non-Violent Co-ordinating Committee. Which was headed up by Stokeley Carmichael. Before he took the helm of the Black Panther party.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that's a coincidence?

And when Michael morphs back into a black panther, he almost identically, morphs into the world famous logo of the Black Panther party.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that he didn't know what he was doing? That that was all a coincidence? Because if you are it would be one hell of a stretch of the imagination.

Sam, you are interpreting what I said. I never used the word coincidence and I never said that Michael did not know what he was doing.

Michael knew perfectly well what he was doing, but he did not limit himself to Black Panthers.

As, I said, he took the best things out of all the things he judged important and made his own "movement". Michael wasn't a follower, but an initiator and a pioneer.

Yes, the panther symboilizes the beauty, the black beauty, and he uses that part from the Black Panthers to reaffirm his black pride. He doesnt share necesarily all their political ideas. Michael does not act as a black separatist. Michael acts as a unifier of all races.

Destroying KKK and Nazi signs clearly indicates that Michael was against all kind of racism or political extremism. Black Panthers sometimes could be seen as extremists with some ideas. Do you see Michael as an extremist?

By the way, the NAZI sign and the KKK sign were nowhere to be seen when the video came out. There was actually nothing at all.
When the world saw the premiere they were shocked by his crotch grabings and the violence of breaking the car and everything around. Later on Michael apologized and justified the violence by the instinct behavior of the beast. From then on, the KKK signs and NAZI signs were digitally added. I don't know if you can find that version of BoW video on youtube, but in any case I possess it on a VHS cassette because I was eagerly waiting for the premiere to watch it and record it.

p.s. Janet and Michael had similar ideas. It doesn't mean that either of them are/were members of the Black Panther movement. As they were not members of the Black Muslims movement;
Michael always liked the uniforms, he liked the military aspect. But Michael's soldiers are an army of dancers, not an army of political extremists.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sam, you are interpreting what I said. I never used the word coincidence and I never said that Michael did not know what he was doing.

Michael knew perfectly well what he was doing, but he did not limit himself to Black Panthers.

As, I said, he took the best things out of all the things he judged important and made his own "movement". Michael wasn't a follower, but an initiator and a pioneer.

Yes, the panther symboilizes the beauty, the black beauty, and he uses that part from the Black Panthers to reaffirm his black pride. He doesnt share necesarily all their political ideas. Michael does not act as a black separatist. Michael acts as a unifier of all races.

Destroying KKK and Nazi signs clearly indicates that Michael was against all kind of racism or political extremism. Black Panthers sometimes could be seen as extremists with some ideas. Do you see Michael as an extremist?

By the way, the NAZI sign and the KKK sign were nowhere to be seen when the video came out. There was actually nothing at all.
When the world saw the premiere they were shocked by his crotch grabings and the violence of breaking the car and everything around. Later on Michael apologized and justified the violence by the instinct behavior of the beast. From then on, the KKK signs and NAZI signs were digitally added. I don't know if you can find that version of BoW video on youtube, but in any case I possess it on a VHS cassette because I was eagerly waiting for the premiere to watch it and record it.

p.s. Janet and Michael had similar ideas. It doesn't mean that either of them are/were members of the Black Panther movement. As they were not members of the Black Muslims movement;
Michael always liked the uniforms, he liked the military aspect. But Michael's soldiers are an army of dancers, not an army of political extremists.

The Black Panther party, as led by Stokeley Carmichael, WASN'T a separatist party. They weren't 'extremists'. They were a political movement. And not all of their members were, or indeed, had to be black. In fact, not all of their founders were black.

I don't claim that Michael was a Black Panther. BUT he showed his allegiance's to the party. Without question. It's no coincidence that he unfurls that banner at the Superbowl. The Black Panthers famously merged with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. By doing that he's saying 'that's what I believe in'. He doesn't have to be a subscribed member to do that. But that's what he believed in. Black hand shaking white hand.

Don't get confused. The Black Panthers WERE NOT separatists.

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I said Michael Jackson was ALWAYS profound, ie. He wouldn't write shit like 'Mama say mama got you in a zig zag' or 'she's working two jobs, she works in a restaurant night and day.'

Yes, that was one of the quotes. It has already been discussed.
Yes Michael was profound. What was behind that "Mama say mama got you in a zig zag" doesn't have to be a superficial thing... neither "she's working two jobs" and so on.
But that's already been discussed.
I know you want to say it is not Michael's lyrics because you think he would not write something like that. Well, honestly (by now) we cannot know if he would...
It could be someone elses lyrics, I guess we have no absolute evidence whose lyrics they are...
OK I'm off now ...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The Black Panther party, as led by Stokeley Carmichael, WASN'T a separatist party. They weren't 'extremists'. They were a political movement. And not all of their members were, or indeed, had to be black. In fact, not all of their founders were black.

I don't claim that Michael was a Black Panther. BUT he showed his allegiance's to the party. Without question. It's no coincidence that he unfurls that banner at the Superbowl. The Black Panthers famously merged with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. By doing that he's saying 'that's what I believe in'. He doesn't have to be a subscribed member to do that. But that's what he believed in. Black hand shaking white hand.

Don't get confused. The Black Panthers WERE NOT separatists.

The initial program was not separatist, (although they created the first counter-culture challenging the mainstream views and ways) but the party went through much difficulties and divergence of opinions and actions ranging from far left via social programs for everyone to extremist positions as carrying guns and chanting about revolution against capitalist society.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The initial program was not separatist, (although they created the first counter-culture challenging the mainstream views and ways) but the party went through much difficulties and divergence of opinions and actions ranging from far left via social programs for everyone to extremist positions as carrying guns and chanting about revolution against capitalist society.

Yes. Which Michael pretty much captures when he smashes things to pieces at the end of Black or White. Feelings that John Landis confirmed were inspired by the riots:

"Michael sensed the violence and unrest that ended up exploding in the LA riots. Michael tapped into something at that moment. He was obviously not so far off the mark in terms of frustration and rage." John Landis on Black Or White.

Revolution against a capitalist society - again, which Michael sang about and depicted in video after video. John Lennon's Imagine is a revolutionary record that's completely against a capitalist society.

Here's a fascinating article about the Black or White video, written by a friend of mine who is a professor at the Norman Lear centre. It talks about the inclusiveness of race at the beginning of Black or White and then the exclusiveness of race at the end of Black or White. It don't matter... but then it does matter...

http://blog.learcenter.org/2010/06/remembering_michael_jackson_mo.html

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Yes, that was one of the quotes. It has already been discussed.
Yes Michael was profound. What was behind that "Mama say mama got you in a zig zag" doesn't have to be a superficial thing... neither "she's working two jobs" and so on.
But that's already been discussed.
I know you want to say it is not Michael's lyrics because you think he would not write something like that. Well, honestly (by now) we cannot know if he would...
It could be someone elses lyrics, I guess we have no absolute evidence whose lyrics they are...
OK I'm off now ...

WE have evidence that the lyrics (not the music, not the songs, NOT EVEN THE TITLES, JUST the lyrics) were registered two days after he died. Without him being able to claim otherwise. In any other realm people would be suspicious. Incredible that so few are here.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

WE have evidence that the lyrics (not the music, not the songs, NOT EVEN THE TITLES, JUST the lyrics) were registered two days after he died. Without him being able to claim otherwise. In any other realm people would be suspicious. Incredible that so few are here.

Oh, thanks you posted this again, also.

And what in particular does that tell us? What conclusion do you draw?

a)
That the cascios sat down, the minute they heard MJ had died, wrote those 12 songs and the next day, registered them?

or b)
That they long planned this. Wrote those boguslyrics before (!!!) MJ had died, couldn't wait till it finally happend. Had a party that day, had to sleep & get sober the next day and registered on the following day?

Man, to me you really are a conspriracy theorist!

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I would be really interested, in your theorie how they pulled these 12 songs out in a matter of two days? And why they did it, only two days after Michael had passed?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^
weak post!

I would be really interested, in your theorie how they pulled these 12 songs out in a matter of two days? And why they did it, only two days after Michael had passed?

What's your theory? Because the facts are that they registered some tracks in Michael's name two days after he died. Those are the facts. What's your theory for Michael Jackson, the king of music publishing, to go two years without publishing the most songs he recorded in a 10 year period? How do you explain that?

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Thread cleaned and let me remind all of you about some basics

- please do not derail the thread - this is not a thread about best - worst songs of Michael or politics
- do not belittle people's efforts that goes into posts / videos etc
- Do not use words like "stupid, idiotic" in regards to other people's posts and ideas - remember the rule of respect
- Immediately stop calling people "deaf (functioning - non functioning ears), dishonest, liars, real fan / not real fan , hurting Michael's legacy" etc

Consider this the LAST warning and if you cannot discuss in a civil manner that is respectful to other people and their opinions the next step will be issuing bans and/or closing the threads

EDIT : Black Panther Party isn't in the scope of this thread. If you want to discuss it further open a thread in the appropriate section and just provide a link in this thread. any future off topic discussions will be deleted.

 

[donalb]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Fellow fans: Given that we already have a limited number of threads to discuss our feelings regarding these tracks, it would be a real shame if this thread gets closed as well. I realize this is a very passionate subject, but can we please tone it down a little in terms of the attacks and keep on the topic?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^
weak post!

I would be really interested, in your theorie how they pulled these 12 songs out in a matter of two days? And why they did it, only two days after Michael had passed?

So what is your theory?

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Didn't i ask you first?

Don't you want to answer, because your explanation would be somewhere near my examples a), or b)?

And you know deep down somewhere, it wouldn't make much sense?

 

[samhabib]

Didn't i ask you first?

Don't you want to answer, because your explanation would be somewhere near my examples a), or b)?

And you know deep down somewhere, it wouldn't make much sense?

These are what we know according to Roger Friedman, who has done all he can to sell these tracks as legitimate:

"Indeed, two days after Jackson died–on June 27, 2009–Cascio filed a copyright claim along with Michael Jackson and another songwriter for something called “MJ Songbook.” The filing is just for lyrics. An earlier filing. from March 2008, is labeled “JPEC Collection.” The song titles in each collection are not specified in the Library of Congress’s database, but it’s possible that Cascio updated his 2008 filing after Jackson died to reflect the superstar’s contribution to material Cascio had already written–and wisely registered."

Read that again. 'It’s possible that Cascio updated his 2008 filing after Jackson died to reflect the superstar’s contribution to material Cascio had already written". If that's the case, why did they need to update the 2008 copyright two days after he died? If he recorded them in 2007??? Tell me. I would love to know. Why did they update that copyright if it was copywritten after he recorded them and while he was still alive?

I'm all ears...

(And yes, I believe that the Cascio's cashed their 'friendship' chips in when Michael died. I have absolutely no doubt about it, in fact. The fact that they happily sold them to Sony - KNOWING what Michael felt about Sony - stinks to high heaven. But hey... what do I know, right?)

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well obviously they didn't have the songs as they were presented to Sony and the Estate 2 days after he passed. I believe it might have gone something like this. Back in 2006/2007 eddie cascio and james porte got together and wrote some tracks and porte recorded them. He was managed first by eddie and then by frank dileo. Porte was known to be working on a breakthrough album back then. Eddie had been trying for years to do well in the music business and either a) offered these tracks to mj for himself and or b)asked for help/advice to launch Porte's career. MJ being the kind of person he was declined to record the tracks but perhaps sat in the 'studio' and messed around with them ,sang a line here and there, made suggestions etc Then mj moved out and went on his way thinking no more of it. Eddie perhaps tried to pursue it further and MJ wasn't interested. Then MJ died and Eddie saw an opportunity. He registered the tracks as 'mj songbook' -nothing specific-no actual individual detailed track info. They spent over a year 'crafting' the tracks into MJ 'demos' with the help of other some vocal impersonator and kept Porte's backround vocals (did some blending and throwing in some actual mj vocals here and there-changed lyrics to include stuff like 'coz i'm Michul Jacksuuun) and presented them to Sony and got 5 million dollars for them. The rest is history. Not too hard to believe really. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Yeah, I'm sure Eddie sold his friend out TWO DAYS AFTER HE DIED. Yeah right!!!

Think if your mother, your brother, any sort of family member you've been raised with since childhood, died. You think only two days later you'd be able to try to register fake songs in his name?

'Yay, Michael's finally dead! We can go do this now!'

No, I'm sure they were still mourning very much so after ONLY TWO DAYS. I know I was and Michael wasn't even close to me in that way!

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Yeah, I'm sure Eddie sold his friend out TWO DAYS AFTER HE DIED. Yeah right!!!

Think if your mother, your brother, any sort of family member you've been raised with since childhood, died. You think only two days later you'd be able to try to register fake songs in his name?

'Yay, Michael's finally dead! We can go do this now!'

No, I'm sure they were still mourning very much so after ONLY TWO DAYS. I know I was and Michael wasn't even close to me in that way!

So they didn't register these songs two days after he died? Yes. They did. And made millions when selling them. All fact, I'm afraid. It's amazing what people will do for money. As Michael once said.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well obviously they didn't have the songs as they were presented to Sony and the Estate 2 days after he passed. I believe it might have gone something like this. Back in 2006/2007 eddie cascio and james porte got together and wrote some tracks and porte recorded them. He was managed first by eddie and then by frank dileo. Porte was known to be working on a breakthrough album back then. Eddie had been trying for years to do well in the music business and either a) offered these tracks to mj for himself and or b)asked for help/advice to launch Porte's career. MJ being the kind of person he was declined to record the tracks but perhaps sat in the 'studio' and messed around with them ,sang a line here and there, made suggestions etc Then mj moved out and went on his way thinking no more of it. Eddie perhaps tried to pursue it further and MJ wasn't interested. Then MJ died and Eddie saw an opportunity. He registered the tracks as 'mj songbook' -nothing specific-no actual individual detailed track info. They spent over a year 'crafting' the tracks into MJ 'demos' with the help of other some vocal impersonator and kept Porte's backround vocals (did some blending and throwing in some actual mj vocals here and there-changed lyrics to include stuff like 'coz i'm Michul Jacksuuun) and presented them to Sony and got 5 million dollars for them. The rest is history. Not too hard to believe really. Stranger things have happened.

Pretty much sums up my take of events