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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Frankyboy5 said:
Controversy... Teddy was not talking about that, he was hinting at his belief that MJ is still alive and in hiding. Weeks before the Oprah interview Teddy openly stated on Twitter he believed MJ was alive and was willing to be his "slave".

Eddie probably didn't know that or otherwise AGREES with him.

As much of a conspiracy as it is and that I don't believe it, I cannot deny the possibility that MJ intended on the tracks to be recorded by Jason or someone else, which is why Jason hinted at certain things on this forum. I don't think it's just the death hoaxers but many people consider MJ to be much more than what he presented, a "man behind the curtain", a man who could manipulate the media.

MJ had Kipp Lennon do his vocals for the Simpsons episode just to play a prank for his brothers. He probably would have thought it was a fun joke for his fans and to introduce them to Jason. Unfortunately it was done after he passed away and split up the fanbase.

What if the Cascio tracks existed and were released WHEN MJ was alive? What would us fans think? MJ would probably have the last laugh. Would we lash out at MJ or would we be like "ohhh I get your prank!"

Should Teddy's belief that MJ is alive and the Cascio tracks be linked? Some believers (either hoaxers or believing in the tracks) can say "Teddy can believe what he wants", but I don't know, what he says about MJ being alive - doesn't this take away from his reputation?

"Fakery" and stuff is not uncommon in the MJ impersonator realm, and it is often done WITH approval of both parties. Edward Moss, the scum who made fun of MJ while he was alive, asked Michael Firestone to record vocals for his concert. Earnest Valentino, who claims to have professional vocal training, has never sung live; in 2009 he had a background singer to sing his lead vocal while he mimed... but none of that compares to the Cascio tracks.
Click to expand...

The Simpsons' vocalist on that song did not fool the fans despite the introduced idea that it was MJ singing the song.

As far as I am concerned, yes, when I watched the episode back then I was expecting MJ to sing it. But when I heard the first notes of the vocals on the song I was extremely disappointed. I wondered why it was not MJ singing it. Later, as Qbee mentioned it, I understood that it was linked to different contracts.

ADKIc3mAnX said:
Why would he not be innocent?

It's not like he knew these songs that he and Michael worked on were going to trigger this.
Click to expand...

Because:

-he is more than aware of the controversy
-he supports the controversy by agreeing what Teddy said: "MJ lives for it"
-his songs have triggered the split and he has no single physical proof to show that it is MJ (at one moment the controversy should stop, but it hasn't since the release of the songs!)
-even if he steps forward he will never erase his silence for over more than a yearletting the fanbase tear apart

When there is a complete absence of proof, If anything, really anything, he could have at least told anecdotes about their recordings. I have posted so many articles, videos, pictures, some kind of traces when people recorded with MJ, and he has nothing to show nor to say about 12 tracks (a full album!). Not to mention that the voice doesn't sound like MJ with that lack of husk, different timbre, different accent and extremely shaky vibrato.

Eddie's guilt is to sell those controversial songs with such an odd and unusual voice without being able to show the proof and answer be it fans questions or Joe Vogel's questions. At least with this latter he would have avoided the direct confrontation with fans' questions. But, no, he opted for silence. It is his right. But it is our right to doubt the tracks and to doubt his sincerety based on his complete silence to answer the questions.

He does not give a damn about the fan base. He sealed a deal with SONY, appeared on Oprah and that's it, bye, bye.
 
I haven't seen this before:


It's Eddie briefly dancing at a halftime show back in 2009.

Doesn't really add anything to the discussion, I know. Just throwing it out there.
 
@ADKI

You do realize that out of 12 songs Eddie has apparently no single alternative version recorded apart of any of the songs nor single piece to show that hasn't been used for the songs.

When you watch the documentary video of MICHAEL with Teddy, Eddy and 50Cents,... they refer to "Monster" as the new THRILLER! Let me laugh! Look through what MJ, Quincy Jones and Bruce Swedien + the musicians have gone to record Thriller. I posted the video few pages back, and you'll see that out of those 12 recorded songs Eddie has nothing to show or to say.

And people expect us not to question his sincerety?

Watch this and see the huge difference with the lack of info on the Cascio songs.

[youtube]e-H1mCEAoiA[/youtube]

Eddie said MJ would absolutely release the songs they recorded. No mention of unfinished vocals and copy-pastes in the middle of the sentences.

Now here, watch the look on MJ's face when he seems happy about the recording. Sth Eddie cannot provide:

[youtube]CeitXK1jKaw[/youtube]

Michael documented his projects. That's why there were cameras rolling. For someone who wanted "absolutely" to release those Cascio songs, MJ seems to have undergroundly underdocumented the songs such as "the new millenium Thriller":

[youtube]exaRB0MuGDU&feature=related[/youtube]
 
Frankyboy5 said:
MJ had Kipp Lennon do his vocals for the Simpsons episode just to play a prank for his brothers.
Click to expand...

Huh? Due to contract issues with Sony Music, MJ was not allowed to SING on the show, that's why Kipp Lennon was chosen to do the singing part.

This has been confirmed by Matt Groening, the creator of THE SIMPSONS. ;)
 
Arklove said:
One would have to be pretty naive to think that these songs, which don't sound like anything Michael has ever sounded before, with the only 'proof' offered as 'That's Michael Jackson, I was there pushing buttons', and a picture of a mic stand WITHOUT Michael there, wouldn't trigger an uproar from his fans...

I mean, it was enough to cause the Estate to hire forensics to identify the voice..You can't tell me Eddie didn't think this would happen...
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Maybe he was that naive and ambitious. I have no other explanation.

Some do need a wake-up call that the sky isn't always the limit.
 
Chamife said:
Maybe he was that naive and ambitious. I have no other explanation.

Some do need a wake-up call that the sky isn't always the limit.
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Eddie started playing and learning the piano very early. He knew how to play all MJ's music on it. MJ, according to Eddie, encouraged him to exploit MJ's melodies in order to push further Eddie's creativity. I don't see any other explanation why the Cascio songs sound as rip offs of MJ's previous songs.

Eddie most probably fabricated the melodies (well he's credited). No wonder MJ's is credited too, the ripped off melodies were created by himself before Eddie created the frankensteinesque songs.

As far as the vocals are concerned, there are so many discrepancies with the voice itself, the techniques, the way of pronouncing the words that makes eyebrows frown. Add Eddie's silence to that and you get the result what we have been experiencing since the release.

I don't even know how can anyone take Eddie's word at face value based on the sole argument that he used to be a friend of Michael Jackson's and no single witness in the studio saying a thing about their experience with Michael Jackson in the studio for 12 entire songs!
 
Korgnex said:
Huh? Due to contract issues with Sony Music, MJ was not allowed to SING on the show, that's why Kipp Lennon was chosen to do the singing part.

This has been confirmed by Matt Groening, the creator of THE SIMPSONS. ;)
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sure, that's one explanation, but that's not the explanation he gave to Al Jean, at 6:24, be warned that they do not speak of MJ so lightly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkd6Q7aweQE

Has any of you actually seen the commentary? What do the producers and stuff say?

I mean sure, don't trust everything Wikipedia says but Al Jean was told exactly what it says. Where did Groening "confirm" it. MJ gave different reasons to different people.
 
Frankyboy5 said:
sure, that's one explanation, but that's not the explanation he gave to Al Jean, at 6:24, be warned that they do not speak of MJ so lightly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkd6Q7aweQE

Has any of you actually seen the commentary? What do the producers and stuff say?

I mean sure, don't trust everything Wikipedia says but Al Jean was told exactly what it says. Where did Groening "confirm" it. MJ gave different reasons to different people.
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Michael did used to say different things to different people. He liked to wind people up a bit. However, Korgnex is right. It was a contractual issue. Michael did record his own real version of the song, which was to be included on the 2nd disc of the Dangerous Special Edition before it was scrapped. This version did leak online along with the remainder of that disc. You can find it on youtube. I posted it here a while back along with the Kipp Lennon version so that people could compare the two.
 
Frankyboy5 said:
MJ had Kipp Lennon do his vocals for the Simpsons episode just to play a prank for his brothers. He probably would have thought it was a fun joke for his fans and to introduce them to Jason. Unfortunately it was done after he passed away and split up the fanbase.
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Are you serious about the bolded?
 
IvoDT said:
I'm sorry if this is offensive (It probably is, haha), but how can anyone take this seriously?
MJ wanting to prank people with Jason, seriously??? xD
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You guys dont mean jason malachi do yas...??????
 
I don't believe MJ would intentionally prank the fans. I was stating another perspective that has not been mentioned here. I'm not a "beLIEver" but all possibilities must be considered. We all know that MJ was a man behind the curtain, considered by some to be a manipulator of the media.

I still think Jason KNEW he was to record MJ tracks someday. It is very suspicious he would have posted on MJJC in 2008 hinting towards that. Perhaps the Cascio tracks didn't exist at the time but once MJ passed away the doors opened for him.

Sure Teddy can believe what he wants, but is it damaging to his reputation as a "defender" of the Cascio tracks? Yes.

let's hear Monster with ONLY MJ

"and he________..."

near the end
"WHY_____ME?
WHY YOU______
WHY YOU______
WHY YOU______
...
WHY YOU
WHY YOU
HOOOOOOOOOOH!"
 
No we all "all" dont know that . Maybe early on in his career was manipulater of media but it is very evident he lost control and the media became his worst enemy. They twisted his every word lied about his every move. (with vicious attckes on his character and sanilty) he wasnt behind the curtain conducting it all then or now. The beLIEvers you refer to above (as in mj is alive) are wrong in that asumption.

I also dont believe Michael Jackson would "compromise" his art or music in any way by using a sound alike for a prank or any other reason. First of all he knows that would be very offensive to his fans and cause a uproar in the musical industry questioning his integrity and 2nd of all he wasnt an idiot. Its just offensive to Michael to even suggest such a thing .. IMO

I dont think Jason Malchi knew or was aware he might or would be called to replace MJ on any tracks. How would he? Thats kind of suggesting he was in the know or involved in conspiracy to remove Michael so he could step in. Im not even going to entertain such a thought in the discussion of these tracks. That pretzel (twist) deserves its own thread.
 
qbee said:
No we all "all" dont know that . Maybe early on in his career was manipulater of media but it is very evident he lost control and the media became his worst enemy. They twisted his every word lied about his every move. (with vicious attckes on his character and sanilty) he wasnt behind the curtain conducting it all then or now. The beLIEvers you refer to above (as in mj is alive) are wrong in that asumption.

I also dont believe Michael Jackson would "compromise" his art or music in any way by using a sound alike for a prank or any other reason. First of all he knows that would be very offensive to his fans and cause a uproar in the musical industry questioning his integrity and 2nd of all he wasnt an idiot. Its just offensive to Michael to even suggest such a thing .. IMO

I dont think Jason Malchi knew or was aware he might or would be called to replace MJ on any tracks. How would he? Thats kind of suggesting he was in the know or involved in conspiracy to remove Michael so he could step in. Im not even going to entertain such a thought in the discussion of these tracks. That pretzel (twist) deserves its own thread.
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A few posts back I posted about this theory and now it's happening with MJJC doubters.
 
I see we are getting into the world of conspiracy--like Michael conspired against himself and his fans ^^. I don't buy that. I don't think Michael would do anything to devalue his art/craft which he worked on relentlessly since a child. Notice in TII how serious he was about the process. This is a guy who would practice one part of a dance move until it was perfect before going on to another part. Certainly he played pranks on people, but in his life time it was never something that involved showing his work in a negative way.
 
no opinion anymore, just questions :)

if those were fake, how could people get away with that legally? somewhere on these pages, someone said we need to get justice for Michael. how? it's been approximately 1 1/2 years since the release, this thread is this long, is anything being done by - who? the fans? why hasn't the family taken any legal action?

what if one day, Eddie Cascio comes out and says, 'gotcha!' and releases an avalanche of Michael footage recording those songs at the Cascio studio? will the songs suddenly sound like Michael? - - - ok, not likely to happen, but what if?

i am not a Cascio advocate - what do i know? it's just that it's a very improbable scenario for me that Sony, the Estate and some other people would conspire to release fake Michael tracks and get away with it. there is also the question, 'why?' everybody gets to lose money because of the controversy.

a friend shared this article with me. would this excerpt help?

"The first of the Cascio tracks to be heard–”Breaking News“–obviously isn’t a perfect realization of Jackson’s abilities. Receiving the most critical attention are Jackson’s vocals, the veracity of which even some family and fans are questioning. There are understandable reasons for this. This certainly isn’t a “typical” Jackson recording: there weren’t extensive warm ups with longtime vocal coach Seth Riggs, no layering and polishing by Jackson himself, no Bruce Swedien and world-class studio technology to capture the original vocal. This was a guide demo, ..."

http://chronowerx.wordpress.com/201...ing-news-some-insight-behind-the-controversy/

Stella, about the shower and "backing vocals," i think he did not mention 'lead vocals" anymore because it's a given that they were done in the studio. only the backings were done in the shower. at least that's how i interpreted that.
 
Does anybody have BREAKING NEWS ACAPELLA and instrumental please? i really need it :))
 
mj_forever;3627817 said:
no opinion anymore, just questions :)

if those were fake, how could people get away with that legally?
Click to expand...

No witnesses, no physical trace to prove the suspicion = extremely weak case, waste of time and money.
Sue who Eddie? Teddy? Sony? Estate? We don't know who did what with those songs, they are all mute like tombs
For what? Copy-pastes of MJ's voice into that "new" voice? Presence of soundalike? How to prove it without confession or any other compromising element?

mj_forever;3627817 said:
somewhere on these pages, someone said we need to get justice for Michael. how? it's been approximately 1 1/2 years since the release, this thread is this long, is anything being done by - who? the fans? why hasn't the family taken any legal action?
Click to expand...

See above. Plus: we've been searching, digging out the slightest and tiniest possible element that could help us understand what happened to those tracks. We haven't been just sitting and talking. So far the strongest evidence are the tracks themselves, but that's not enough as it'd be our word against theirs without physical proof to back it up. So far they are getting away with it.

mj_forever;3627817 said:
what if one day, Eddie Cascio comes out and says, 'gotcha!' and releases an avalanche of Michael footage recording those songs at the Cascio studio? will the songs suddenly sound like Michael? - - - ok, not likely to happen, but what if?
Click to expand...

MJ woulldn't suddenly sound himself. Even if MJ was alive and stood up and said "it's me", as far as I am concerned I'd say to him "that ain't you Mike".

If Eddie all of sudden released those footages, he will never be able to erase the one and a half year of MJ's fans split up. If he played a prank you do it for a short moment, you don't wait such a long time, unless he needs time to fabricate the proof the way he fabricated the songs.

On top of that, if he had had a single element/footage to show, there would have never been any musicology oor audio forensic to "identify" the voice. It'd be like hiring forensics to identify MJ on BAD album.

mj_forever;3627817 said:
i am not a Cascio advocate - what do i know? it's just that it's a very improbable scenario for me that Sony, the Estate and some other people would conspire to release fake Michael tracks and get away with it. there is also the question, 'why?' everybody gets to lose money because of the controversy.
Click to expand...

Just because it looks improbable they can get away with it. They certainly wouldn't do it if it looked probable. But the voice that you hear on their track is different from MJ's usual voice, that's a fact.

On top of that, SONY and Estate might have been fooled in the first place by Eddie and it is too late for them to admit it. Their reputation indeed could be damaged. By remaining silent they hope they'll gett away with it and that people will forget about it.

mj_forever;3627817 said:
a friend shared this article with me. would this excerpt help?

"The first of the Cascio tracks to be heard–”Breaking News“–obviously isn’t a perfect realization of Jackson’s abilities. Receiving the most critical attention are Jackson’s vocals, the veracity of which even some family and fans are questioning. There are understandable reasons for this. This certainly isn’t a “typical” Jackson recording: there weren’t extensive warm ups with longtime vocal coach Seth Riggs, no layering and polishing by Jackson himself, no Bruce Swedien and world-class studio technology to capture the original vocal. This was a guide demo, ..."

http://chronowerx.wordpress.com/201...ing-news-some-insight-behind-the-controversy/
Click to expand...


It certainly doesn't help Eddie's claim who said that MJ was working and training every single day and that he was ready for work.
He also said MJ did it for his fans and that he would absolutely agree to release the tracks.

On the other hand when you see MJ singing in his interviews without warming up his voice, his voice is still undoubtedly same and there is no single occasion where you can hear MJ's voice sounding the same as on those Cascio tracks. Not to mention the way some words are pronounced and the extremely shaky vibrato.

mj_forever;3627817 said:
Stella, about the shower and "backing vocals," i think he did not mention 'lead vocals" anymore because it's a given that they were done in the studio. only the backings were done in the shower. at least that's how i interpreted that.
Click to expand...

Well, again, the problem is the lead vocals anyway. They don't sound usual MJ's voice despite he's reportedly continuous trainings, practice, and beaing ready to work.

A question to you, apart those tracks that you hear and their (Estate, Eddie's, Teddy's, SONY's) word that is supposed to be taken at face value, what else do you have that tells you or proves you it's MJ's voice?
 
Frankyboy5 said:
I don't believe MJ would intentionally prank the fans. I was stating another perspective that has not been mentioned here. I'm not a "beLIEver" but all possibilities must be considered. We all know that MJ was a man behind the curtain, considered by some to be a manipulator of the media.

I still think Jason KNEW he was to record MJ tracks someday. It is very suspicious he would have posted on MJJC in 2008 hinting towards that. Perhaps the Cascio tracks didn't exist at the time but once MJ passed away the doors opened for him.

Sure Teddy can believe what he wants, but is it damaging to his reputation as a "defender" of the Cascio tracks? Yes.

let's hear Monster with ONLY MJ

"and he________..."

near the end
"WHY_____ME?
WHY YOU______
WHY YOU______
WHY YOU______
...
WHY YOU
WHY YOU
HOOOOOOOOOOH!"
Click to expand...



I have been hearing this a lot and just wanted to point something here. There isn't any, NOT A SINGLE one artist out there who hasn't used the media one way or another. Planting fake stories on the media, fake relationships, fake scandals, fake animosities with other artists and so on in order of having their name out there. This is how the system works. Now if MJ at some point claimed that he wanted to buy the elephant man's bones or that he slept in hypebarick chamber big deal. Other artist are posing butt naked, kissing ever single living creature on the planet in order to have the media print their name. So yeah, MJ was real a scandalous media manipulator.

Now, as for you suggesting that maybe MJ used Malachi as a way of pranking his fans with the Cascio songs, i have to say to you that at that point of his life MJ was trying to get his career and life back on the road, trying to built up what the allegations had destroyed. I don't believe that he was so stupid or had the time and the energy to scheme pranks on his fans. I'm sorry for saying this but this theory is totally random.
 
mj_forever said:
if those were fake, how could people get away with that legally? somewhere on these pages, someone said we need to get justice for Michael. how? it's been approximately 1 1/2 years since the release, this thread is this long, is anything being done by - who? the fans? why hasn't the family taken any legal action?
Click to expand...

Because Sony is a big corporation. I'm sure they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

And as of right now, they are getting away with it.
 
mj_forever;3627817 said:
a friend shared this article with me. would this excerpt help?

"The first of the Cascio tracks to be heard–”Breaking News“–obviously isn’t a perfect realization of Jackson’s abilities. Receiving the most critical attention are Jackson’s vocals, the veracity of which even some family and fans are questioning. There are understandable reasons for this. This certainly isn’t a “typical” Jackson recording: there weren’t extensive warm ups with longtime vocal coach Seth Riggs, no layering and polishing by Jackson himself, no Bruce Swedien and world-class studio technology to capture the original vocal. This was a guide demo, ..."

http://chronowerx.wordpress.com/201...ing-news-some-insight-behind-the-controversy/
Click to expand...


Extensive warm ups with Seth Riggs -
Do we know whether Seth was presence on every single Michael Jackson recording? Was he there when Michael recorded Hollywood Tonight? Hold My Hand? Best of Joy? Do we know? Why make it sound like Michael sounded the way he sounded only when his vocal coach had prepped him?

No layering and polishing by Jackson himself -
Was Hold My Hand, Hollywood Tonight, TWYLM, Best of Joy, Another Day, BTM and MTS layered and polished by Michael? All of the songs I mentioned lacked the signautre Michael Jackson finishing touch as well.

no Bruce Swedien and world-class studio technology to capture the original vocal -
So, Michael Jackson sounded beautiful only when Bruce Swedien was the sound engineer? Blood on the Dance Floor was not mixed by Bruce Swedien. Do BOTDF or Morphine sound inferior? And, define world-class studio technology please? Not every single artist has the luxury to record with "world-class" studio technology. Ever heard of garage band? Correct me if I'm wrong, Foo Fighter's last album was recorded and mixed in Dave Grohl's garage - not exactly "world-class" studio. Yes, the Cascio basement was amateruish - but it wasn't the middle of Times Square.

BTW, was Hollywood Tonight recorded in a hotel room? Also, did Michael sound bad in Human Nature and IJCSLY in TII? Was there any "world-class studio technology" there to capture his original vocal? To me, the recording situation in Staple Center and the Forum was worse than an isolated basement studio.
 
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teli-mj said:
Now, as for you suggesting that maybe MJ used Malachi as a way of pranking his fans with the Cascio songs, i have to say to you that at that point of his life MJ was trying to get his career and life back on the road, trying to built up what the allegations had destroyed. I don't believe that he was so stupid or had the time and the energy to scheme pranks on his fans. I'm sorry for saying this but this theory is totally random.
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lol! of course it's a totally random theory.

can someone post what Jason posts on this forum in 2008???

First he cleared up the doubt that "I Can Make It" was sung by MJ saying that the track was leaked. Then he went on to posting in other threads more cryptic messages, along the line "some say MJ is promoting me using his voice, things will be made clear soon" or "Michael was amazed (by my voice)". At the time I thought "ohh it would be cool if Jason did a duet or something with MJ, a whole album like that" but I didn't realize it would be to this scale done after MJ passed away.

I'm not sure if it was BEFORE or AFTER MJ passed away but then Jason claimed "I'm opening for MJ for This Is It". It sounds like an outrageous claim.

Maybe Jason was gonna open up This Is It with a Cascio track :p!
 
Frankyboy5 said:
lol! of course it's a totally random theory.

can someone post what Jason posts on this forum in 2008???

First he cleared up the doubt that "I Can Make It" was sung by MJ saying that the track was leaked. Then he went on to posting in other threads more cryptic messages, along the line "some say MJ is promoting me using his voice, things will be made clear soon" or "Michael was amazed (by my voice)". At the time I thought "ohh it would be cool if Jason did a duet or something with MJ, a whole album like that" but I didn't realize it would be to this scale done after MJ passed away.

I'm not sure if it was BEFORE or AFTER MJ passed away but then Jason claimed "I'm opening for MJ for This Is It". It sounds like an outrageous claim.

Maybe Jason was gonna open up This Is It with a Cascio track :p!
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I take this as sarcasm, because logic is far... far to spot in here, but I'm not amused.
The sad part is some people actually will start/already believe in stuff like this.
BS like this is what makes people doubt songs like Hollywood Tonight etc, aswell. Not amused~
 
I know this might not be the place but can you guys tell me if I did good?

f5162e4fc5b3f505e966b979430ca5e1.png
 
thank you to those who responded to my questions.

Bumper Snippet, i don't have strong opinions on this either way. although i have been listening a lot to MJ's music, i still humbly submit that i am no expert. i may have said to myself that there was something different to those vocals, especially if i compare them to Best of Joy or his older songs, but i guess i finally put it down to over-production from original demos that were very bare. i've gone back and forth on this a lot but for now, i choose to 'keep the faith' until concrete proof shows up. i think you were the one who talked about 'dialect.' when i read that post many pages back, i kinda understood what you meant, but that was in relation to another unreleased track from the Cascios - i think it was Carry On or Stay, whatever its true title is. it felt weird listening to that because it didn't sound like MJ, not the voice, not the way he pronounced words. but that song is supposed to be in a set with these other 3 songs, so - what to think? don't know. i am just confused.

i don't like the thought that Malachi is being given too much credit as a voice-alike. but more than anything else, it's really very hard to wrap my head around the possibility that they could do this to Michael and get away with it. (i know, i repeat myself) it happened with Milli Vanilli, but how can ANYONE even attempt to do that with the KOP? what has Michael ever done to the Cascio family all these years for him to get this from Eddie? and if it was just Eddie that's the villain and Sony and the Estate were just caught in his trap, wouldn't it serve them a lot better if they stood up and exposed the fraud instead of choosing to keep quiet?

some pages back, or on another related thread, i also remember asking about the wisdom of choosing to release these over the actual outtakes - undoubtedly pure, unadulterated MJ. and though that decision sounds fishy, there's no way i could get to the answers. it's a dead end, in several ways. as you say, they're all mute on the questions that need answering.

but this is good to know:

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
See above. Plus: we've been searching, digging out the slightest and tiniest possible element that could help us understand what happened to those tracks. We haven't been just sitting and talking.
Click to expand...

i would have helped in the effort, if i could - but i'm no techie.
 
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