Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Arklove]

I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if Eddie actually ever agrees to a Q&A...He knows the only questions that are pertinent to fans are the ones about the Cascio songs...and we all know how stoked he is to answer any of those questions...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

excuse me? "butt-kissing?" seriously?

and for the record a millionth time : Frank's Q&A was through his publisher and was about his book and was also conducted by his publisher. Songs was never relevant for that Q&A and I can assure you that only a minimal of the questions sent was asked / answered. So I really appreciate if this unfair portrayals stop.

Why do you feel offended now? When have I ever accused MJJC or you of what I said? Please quote where? MJJC clearly allowed us to post any questions we wanted, but as a matter of fact the questions were carefully selected and filtered by a third party. The questions were butt-kissing, I am repeating it again. But I've never said it is MJJC's fault.

he didn't refuse or accept anything. I was and still am in talks but with the upcoming trial (of birchey) I don't think it's likely to happen.

He's been hiding under a rock, that's a fact.

 

[ivy]

Why do you feel offended now? When have I ever accused MJJC or you of what I said? Please quote where? MJJC clearly allowed us to post any questions we wanted, but as a matter of fact the questions were carefully selected and filtered by a third party. The questions were butt-kissing, I am repeating it again. But I've never said it is MJJC's fault.

why? because I select the questions and majority of the times the Q&A's are directly done by the person. Frank's was the only one through an intermediary which was clearly stated from the start. So who do you expect to be selecting the questions for Eddie or be the third party if the Q&A ever happens? As 99% of the time I control the Q&A's, it's offensive.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

why? because I select the questions and majority of the times the Q&A's are directly done by the person. Frank's was the only one through an intermediary. So who do you expect to be selecting the questions for Eddie or be the third party if the Q&A ever happens? As 99% of the time I control the Q&A's, it's offensive.

I am not aware who is filtering or selecting the questions. All I said is that the questions were filtered. I assumed it was the third party as MJJC allowed us to post the questions we wanted. None of the visible to the public are offensive, and 90% hasn't been answered, nor asked.

What's the point of having Q&A session if it is to be over-controlled by whoever does it. I didn't even know that you have selected the questions.

Don't blame me if you feel responsible for the results we all saw. The point is, I never directed my post neither at you nor at MJJC.

 

[Arklove]

Oh 'scuse me....Just passin' through

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Bumper- you should write out what Eddie said in the making of Michael video. He actually reveals exactly what Michael did in that studio. A little Freudian slip if you will. Remember how WBSS 08 credits the backing vocals as being recorded by Angelikson? The key clue being "backing". And that shower actually did play a role....See if you can spot it....


[youtube]15TxYH0hAjQ&ob=av2e[/youtube]

The thing is, Eddie never speaks of not accomplishing the recordings. Yet we have so many copy-pastes.
On the other hand we have Akon saying MJ finsihed their song/vocals in a matter of a couple of hours. Not single Cascio song is without copy-pastes and rip-offs.

 

[ivy]

I am not aware who is filtering or selecting the questions. All I said is that the questions were filtered. I assumed it was the third party as MJJC allowed us to post the questions we wanted. None of the visible to the public are offensive, and 90% hasn't been answered, nor asked.

What's the point of having Q&A session if it is to be over-controlled by whoever does it. I didn't even know that you have selected the questions.

Don't blame me if you feel responsible for the results we all saw. The point is, I never directed my post neither at you nor at MJJC.

If you know nothing then do not write about it.

For every Q&A I give information of how it will work and if there's any limitations.

For example Jermaine Jackson Q&A stated:

"There are some rules :
- Questions concerning matters that are in personally private nature and
- Questions about Prince, Paris or Blanket

will NOT be considered."

It also included the information of how the Q&A's were selected

"Also to help with the selection of final questions that will be sent to Jermaine please comment on the questions asked by other members. This way I can determine the most common and most preferred questions."

Frank's Q&A also had the relative information for the people that read it

Title clearly showed the scope - Q & A with Frank Cascio about his book "My Friend Michael"

The body clearly identified the involvement of his publisher - "MJJC is combining forces with Harper Collins / William Morrow publishers"

It even mentioned the songs weren't relevant explicitly - "This is about Frank's book and not the songs."

So people posted the questions, I selected the top 15-20 questions and sent it to the publisher to do the livestream, they too further selected the questions they wanted to ask / answer.

However as I said Frank's Q&A is unique in regards to the middleman involved and the second pass of questions. There's nothing that says if done a Q&A with Eddie would be the same way. All other Q&A's has been direct.

Ralphige gave no limitations, answered selected and sent questions.
Dr. Shafer gave no limitations, answered all questions sent by the fans.
Taj Jackson gave no limitations, answered selected and sent questions.
Joe Vogel gave a certain question number limit and wanted the Q&A to be mainly about his "Earth Song" book, answered selected and sent questions.
Jermaine Jackson gave a certain question number limit and did not want personal questions or questions about Michael's kids, answered selected and sent questions.
DA Walgren gave a certain question number limit and said that he might not answer some questions due to his position. He's sent selected questions, he will answer whatever he want, he will ignore whatever he wants.

So if there's ever a Q&A with Eddie who do you assumed to be the person to "filter and only ask the butt-kissing and rubbing ones"?

 

[Chamife]

The irony...

EDDIE CASCIO: I had been studying piano since the age of four, and my brother as well, and
as we grew up, we would play for Michael, and we both learned pretty much all of Michael's
songs. I'll take you down to the studio. It's in the basement. So this is the studio, and it didn't
always look like this. When Michael was here, there wasn't any drums or anything here. There
was just a box spring with a mattress. So he would sleep over here. Then I had sectioned off this
corner with curtains, black, dark curtains going all the way around it, with a flat-screen TV. So
he had, like, his little cave. Right here, we had--it wasn't this dance floor, but we had a regular,
wooden dance floor put in just for him. He was training every morning. He'd dance, and I would
be right here next to him dancing. Years later, fast forward to, I would say, the beginning of '07,
he came ready to work, and that's what we did. Spent long hours working in the studio,
recording. The vocals were done, actually, right in this room. I think Michael would be very
excited right now that the music that he was doing for his fans, they're finally going to get a
chance to hear it.

So according to Eddie:

-MJ came to record beginning 2007
-MJ was ready (not ill, not for fun)
-MJ did not record for Eddie but for his fans
-MJ would be excited about the release of such tracks (no mention of copy-pastes).

EDDIE CASCIO: I can tell you that it is Michael's voice. He recorded right there in my
basement

It's good that you can tell Eddie, 'cuz bunch of us cannot tell. Quite the contrary actually. Now, Eddie, set aside what you "can tell", give us something more tangible (worktape? video? handwritten notes? outtakes? demos? photos? any souvenir or anecdote from the recording session?)

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah, it was a home studio, and, you know, we worked. I was there pushing
the buttons. He was right there directing, and he--that's Michael Jackson.

No, we don't know Eddie. What was he doing? Directing or actually singing the songs? Both? Well, show some footages, show something more than just your word. That's all we're asking.




TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Well, I say to the
doubters, along with my friends who also worked with Michael over 20 years, over 25 years, this
is Michael's voice. And so many people, including some of the family, they doubt that it's him,
but we professionally, we've been around him.

Teddy, we not professionally, but FANATICALLY have been around MJ's music since our birth. Listening daily (not working, but LISTENING) to all his songs, analysing the slightest breath, the slightest note, the slightest hiccup, we the FANATICS don't hear our usual Michael Jackson's voice on those tracks.

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Because you can hear the
authenticity in his voice and you can hear, like, the natural part of him, and no one could really
do a scream like that strong scream on the music that you hear like Michael. I don't care if you
get anyone. They will never be able to duplicate Michael's voice.



No Teddy, that's the point we don't hear the authenticity in that voice AT ALL. Screams? Why don't you mention that you (or whoever) copy-pasted them on those songs?


EDDIE CASCIO: Well, I feel that Michael absolutely wanted these songs released. Michael did
it for his fans. He recorded for his fans, and it deserves to come out, and the fans deserve to hear
what the musical genius of Michael really is.


Michael absolutely wanted these songs released?
-Not one was included on This Is It Tour.
-No one ever heard about them.
-Michael did it for his fans in an underground studio with unrecognizable voice? Oh, "thanks" Eddie.
-Regarding MJ being genius, thank you Eddie, but we already knew he was a genius. But those songs certainly are far from showing any perfection whatsoever (especially with copy-pasted screams and breaths from Invincible and ripped off melodies, not to mention the goaty vibrato and odd voice timbre).

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): It's to continue his
legacy. I think--they're saying it's not perfect, but this is Michael's, you know, his art, and we
must continue his legacy. Michael's worst day is probably a lot of those people's, you know, best
day. So this is still Michael and this is, you know, what we...

Blahblahblah. Prove it instead of just talking. MJ didn't need to wait for those Cascio songs to continue his legacy.




-------------

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would Michael have liked the heat on this new album? Would he
like the controversy?

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): He'd love. He lives
controversy.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah.

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): He lives for it.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the fact that we're sitting here going "is it or isn't it?"

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Exactly. He would be--
he's smiling at us right now. "Just what I want you all to do."


Oh thank you so much Teddy and Eddie for bringing the controversy among MJ's fans. What would we do without you two?
But I don't recollect a single moment with such a serious controversy -- his very voice with no physical proof. When you create controversy then you also must be able to prove the contrary with other things than just your words. Big fail.

Agree with every word.

Maybe Michael loved controversy..probably, but NOT ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF HIS VOCALS !! :mat:. What kind of artist loves that? SMH.

excuse me? "butt-kissing?" seriously?

and for the record a millionth time : Frank's Q&A was through his publisher and was about his book and was also conducted by his publisher. Songs was never relevant for that Q&A and I can assure you that only a minimal of the questions sent was asked / answered. So I really appreciate if this unfair portrayals stop.




he didn't refuse or accept anything. I was and still am in talks but with the upcoming trial (of birchey) I don't think it's likely to happen.

That's clear then. I wasn't sure it was ever asked to him. The possibility of 'still in talks' never crossed my mind..

I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if Eddie actually ever agrees to a Q&A...He knows the only questions that are pertinent to fans are the ones about the Cascio songs...and we all know how stoked he is to answer any of those questions...

Oh..not every fan of Michael is a 'doubter'. I'm sure there will be a lot of other questions too.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

If you know nothing then do not write about it.

The questions were butt-kissing and filtered. I am repeating it again. And I am writing what I want to write without accusing anyone.

I am basing my opinion on the video that I saw when Frank answered the 0.1% of asked questions.

 

[ivy]

The questions were butt-kissing and filtered. I am repeating it again. And I am writing what I want to write without accusing anyone.

I am basing my opinion on the video that I saw when Frank answered the 0.1% of asked questions.

and I'm asking you who did you allege to be asking Eddie the same "filtered and butt-kissing" questions if the Q&A ever happened?

Harper Collins / William Morrow publishers will not be involved in anything in regards to Eddie. So please explain to me why, how did you expect the same thing with Eddie? Who would have done the filter and butt kissing?

 

[Arklove]

Oh..not every fan of Michael is a 'doubter'. I'm sure there will be a lot of other questions too.

Oh I agree...It's just that what other questions do fans want to ask Eddie other than about the songs? He's pretty much only known by the fans for releasing those tracks...IMO, the majority of those questions will be pertaining to the songs...Even by the believers...

 

[StellaJackson]

The thing is, Eddie never speaks of not accomplishing the recordings. Yet we have so many copy-pastes.
On the other hand we have Akon saying MJ finsihed their song/vocals in a matter of a couple of hours. Not single Cascio song is without copy-pastes and rip-offs.

But he does. He talks about exactly what he recorded with Michael. He was telling the truth. Right there in the documentary. It's a classic freduian slip.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

and I'm asking you who did you allege to be asking Eddie the same "filtered and butt-kissing" questions if the Q&A ever happened?

Harper Collins / William Morrow publishers will not be involved in anything in regards to Eddie. So please explain to me why, how did you expect the same thing with Eddie? Who would have done the filter and butt kissing?

First to clear things up, I never expected Frank to answer through his publisher. When I saw it, I put all the blame on both of them, never on you or MJJC as I thought that the questions that had not been deleted from the public eye were submitted to Frank himself and that he was going to answer them himself and not through his publisher.

Regarding Eddie's probable Q&A, I completely lost all hope since he's been silent for ages.

Given the fact that Frank did not answer some tough questions (and that they were even not asked), I projected the same scenario with Eddie.

As I had not expected third party involvement with Frank, yet there was one, I again projected the same scenario with Eddie. Who would be the third party for Eddie? I don't care.

To me what was important with Frank was to answer the questions. The truth of the matter was that it was almost as if he didn't do it. So if the same procedure happens with Eddie, why bother? It'd be the same as on Oprah "It's MJ's voice" period.

 

[Chamife]

Oh I agree...It's just that what other questions do fans want to ask Eddie other than about the songs? He's pretty much only known by the fans for releasing those tracks...IMO, the majority of those questions will be pertaining to the songs...Even by the believers...

I think so too. I don't have any other questions for him.., but Eddie has also lived close to Michael for years, and other fans probably would like to know about his experiences with Michael.

(I wouldn't mind a Q&A solely about the songs without room for other questions, but that wouldn't be fair towards other fans who maybe want to ask him other stuff).

 

[Arklove]

I think so too. I don't have any other questions for him.., but Frank has also lived close to Michael for years, and other fans probably would like to know about his experiences with Michael.

(I wouldn't mind a Q&A solely about the songs without room for other questions, but that wouldn't be fair towards other fans who maybe want to ask him other stuff).

Of course, I know that fans will want to know about his friendship with Michael...that's a given...It's just that I think Eddie knows that people may not care about too much other than the songs...It'd look pretty obvious if he agreed to a Q&A, but didn't want to answer questions about the songs...And if he DID choose to answer some questions, I will bet my left arm the answers will be vague as hell...

 

[StellaJackson]

Ultimately, it all boils down to one thing. For anyone who thinks the vocals are Michael, just listen to Fall In Lover and Water. That is not Michael Jackson singing. End of. The issue should be about getting justice for this fraud.

 

[ivy]

To me the point is simple. These Q&A's aren't easy, I've spent months on each one. Walgren took me over 4 months to get it. For months I have been pursing Eddie. I don't appreciate baseless assumptions or words such as "butt-kissing". If you prefer I can give it up and not do it at all.

And actually when I was talking to Frank about it recently, he did mention some users - by name / nickname - and how they have been so harsh and insulting towards his family . Today just seeing that "butt-kissing" comment makes me think "why the hell have been spending all this time to try to convince Cascios if the response would be so unappreciative". You know what, it simply does not worth it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

To me the point is simple. These Q&A's aren't easy, I've spent months on each one. Walgren took me over 4 months to get it. For months I have been pursing Eddie. I don't appreciate baseless assumptions or words such as "butt-kissing". If you prefer I can give it up and not do it at all.

And actually when I was talking to Frank about it recently, he did mention some users - by name / nickname - and how they have been so harsh and insulting towards his family . Today just seeing that "butt-kissing" comment makes me think "why the hell have been spending all this time to try to convince Cascios if the response would be so unappreciative". You know what, it simply does not worth it.

I don't give a f..... damn about them* Ivy. I care about Michael Jackson and no one else.

I really appreciate all what you are doing, but if you are going to reproach that, please don't do anything.


* the responsible ones for this mess

 

[StellaJackson]

And actually when I was talking to Frank about it recently, he did mention some users - by name / nickname - and how they have been so harsh and insulting towards his family . Today just seeing that "butt-kissing" comment makes me think "why the hell have been spending all this time to try to convince Cascios if the response would be so unappreciative". You know what, it simply does not worth it.

They brought that on themselves. They deserve it. They released fraudulent songs in Michael's name, exploited him and exploited his fans, leaving behind a terrible mess in the fan community. If he is so concerned then he and his brother should speak up and set the record straight. Be the man and admit what they did.

 

[Arklove]

They brought that on themselves. They deserve it. They released fraudulent songs in Michael's name, exploited him and exploited his fans, leaving behind a terrible mess in the fan community. If he is so concerned then he and his brother should speak up and set the record straight. Be the man and admit what they did.

If Eddie is such a good friend to Michael for all these years, he'd know first hand how important the fans were to Michael..Leaving them hanging while these songs are completely unaccounted for doesn't exactly show he really cares what the hell the fans think or feel....I agree...set the record straight...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Well Eddy and Teddy claimed MJ would love controversy. They have it.

 

[StellaJackson]

If Eddie is such a good friend to Michael for all these years, he'd know first hand how important the fans were to Michael..Leaving them hanging while these songs are completely unaccounted for doesn't exactly show he really cares what the hell the fans think or feel....I agree...set the record straight...

If, by some miraculous stretch of the imagination it really is Michael, then prove it. Show some notes, work tapes, out takes where Michael is talking. If Michael really recorded those songs then those things would absolutely exist. Give detailed stories about the recording process. With 12 songs there must be lots to tell.

Or do the only remaining honourable thing and admit you used Jason. End this mess and donate any money you made to a charity in Michael's name. Stop the lies and end the silence.

 

[ivy]

They brought that on themselves. They deserve it. They released fraudulent songs in Michael's name, exploited him and exploited his fans, leaving behind a terrible mess in the fan community. If he is so concerned then he and his brother should speak up and set the record straight. Be the man and admit what they did.

You know what I wonder. Entertain me. What if you are wrong? What if one day the songs are proven to be real? What if one day you learn that Eddie for example had no role in any faking. What then? How are you going to explain this "they deserved it" logic? How are you going to fix it? A "sorry my bad"?

It's my culture perhaps but there's a belief that a person who accuses an innocent would pay it ten-fold either in this life or after life.

and also at least be realistic. Even if they - whoever they might be - did it, they would not admit it.

 

[Arklove]

If, by some miraculous stretch of the imagination it really is Michael, then prove it. Show some notes, work tapes, out takes where Michael is talking. If Michael really recorded those songs then those things would absolutely exist. Give detailed stories about the recording process. With 12 songs there must be lots to tell.

Or do the only remaining honourable thing and admit you used Jason. End this mess and donate any money you made to a charity in Michael's name. Stop the lies and end the silence.

Well, either way, his silence speaks more volumes than anything he'd actually say...It's just sad that they are the ones that are responsible for this mess, yet it's the fans that have been blamed over and over again....All because we want some transparency about our idol's music....

 

[StellaJackson]

You know what I wonder. Entertain me. What if you are wrong? What if one day the songs are proven to be real? What if one day you learn that Eddie for example had no role in any faking. What then? How are you going to explain this "they deserved it" logic? How are you going to fix it? A "sorry my bad"?

It's my culture perhaps but there's a belief that a person who accuses an innocent would pay it ten-fold either in this life or after life.

and also at least be realistic. Even if they - whoever they might be - did it, they would not admit it.

That's not even worth thinking about because it is never going to happen. It will never be proven that the songs are Michael because they clearly aren't. If they could prove it, they would have done by now. And it is obvious who the "they" are: Cascio, Porte, Cupeta.

And as an atheist, I couldn't care less about the afterlife!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

You know what I wonder. Entertain me. What if you are wrong? What if one day the songs are proven to be real? What if one day you learn that Eddie for example had no role in any faking. What then? How are you going to explain this "they deserved it" logic? How are you going to fix it? A "sorry my bad"?

It's my culture perhaps but there's a belief that a person who accuses an innocent would pay it ten-fold either in this life or after life.

and also at least be realistic. Even if they - whoever they might be - did it, they would not admit it.

Eddie and Teddy did say MJ would love controversy. Eddie IS aware of the final product. He could have come forward and said if the final song ressembles his recording or not. But he hasn't. So, if he does not give a damn about us for this division, why should I give a damn about him for selling those songs in the first place?

 

[Arklove]

Eddie and Teddy did say MJ would love controversy. Eddie IS aware of the final product. He could have come forward and said if the final song ressembles his recording or not. But he hasn't. So, if he does not give a damn about us for this division, why should I give a damn about him for selling those songs in the first place?

As it's been said before numerous times...If the songs turn out to be Michael...the result is the same...These songs were built from scratch and are NOT MJ's pieces of music...Either way, a true 'friend' doesn't release songs that are a slap in the face to MJ's artistry....Who does that?

 

[Chamife]

To me the point is simple. These Q&A's aren't easy, I've spent months on each one. Walgren took me over 4 months to get it. For months I have been pursing Eddie. I don't appreciate baseless assumptions or words such as "butt-kissing". If you prefer I can give it up and not do it at all.

And actually when I was talking to Frank about it recently, he did mention some users - by name / nickname - and how they have been so harsh and insulting towards his family . Today just seeing that "butt-kissing" comment makes me think "why the hell have been spending all this time to try to convince Cascios if the response would be so unappreciative". You know what, it simply does not worth it.

All Q&A's are very much appreciated. When I see the 'thank yous' that says enough. Also Frank's Q&A was very much appreciated and I've not only seen negative posts, but also a lot of positive, enthousiastic posts.

What I don't get it that Eddie has to be convinced in this. What does he have to loose? He already has a bad reputation (amongst doubters) because of this.

They brought that on themselves. They deserve it. They released fraudulent songs in Michael's name, exploited him and exploited his fans, leaving behind a terrible mess in the fan community. If he is so concerned then he and his brother should speak up and set the record straight. Be the man and admit what they did.

Exactly

 

[azsummergirl]

But he does. He talks about exactly what he recorded with Michael. He was telling the truth. Right there in the documentary. It's a classic freduian slip.

what does he say? i don't have enough patience for the 24 minute video, lol, i know that's bad.

@arklove: that gif you posted was soooo classic. if i were in that grocery store i would have had more of a reaction :lmao:

 

[StellaJackson]

what does he say? i don't have enough patience for the 24 minute video, lol, i know that's bad.

@arklove: that gif you posted was soooo classic. if i were in that grocery store i would have had more of a reaction :lmao:

It's when he's showing the camera crew the shower. He says: "This is where Michael recorded those backing vocals." I believe he's telling the truth and was referring to WBSS 08. Nothing about lead vocals, or those songs.