Michael - The Great Album Debate

[StellaJackson]

Maybe because they know what they included on the CD.

Clearly not. They took a gamble. It was a mistake. The only people who know the absolute truth are those who have profited from it and remained quiet since.

 

[StellaJackson]

this is what Teddy said about the Cascio's studio:

"It's a pretty good studio, you make a studio the best you can make it, you're just trying to get the sound, and they did it."

he talks as if the vocals they recorded were of great quality, then if it was a good enough studio and they got the sound why say this:
"We had to do what we had to do to make ... his voice work with the actual music"

If it really were MJ processed with a vibrato like, why not just leave his voice unprocessed? Let's say he only sang "finer place to stay" with "stay' being a short note, why bother stretching it out to "sta-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay"

Some fans came up with the idea that the voices were processed before Teddy said so. Teddy's statement just simply reinforced what fans had already theorized.

Exactly. The entire processing idea is a fantasy born out of a desperate need to justify the way the vocals sound with little knowledge of what processing actually is. Your KYHU example is a good one. The reason the word "stay" is shaky at the end is not down to any processing technique. It is because that's how the singer sounded. Like you said, there would be absolutely no reason to do such a thing. What would be the point? It didn't achieve anything because KYHU sounds patently nothing like MJ to the ears of any long term fan. There are just far too many direct matches with Jason Cupeta for it be a coincidence either. If it was just the vibrato that would be one thing, but we have his dialect, pronunciation, snorts etc.

And Teddy knows the songs are fake. He said so to Taryll Jackson. That's why he actually passed on KYHU and begrudgingly worked on the others in the hopes that something genuine would come along, which is why he was stoked when he got Hollywood Tonight. Either way, he needed the money. He simply decided to convince himself it was Michael on the Cascio tracks rather than lose out on the work.

 

[love is magical]

Maybe because they know what they included on the CD.

No, they didn't. If they knew, that means they had solid evidence telling them it's MJ. Not just words from Edfie Cascio. Then, what's the point of getting musicologists involved.

Whatever they got was not conclusive enough, so they need to perform due diligence by hiring the musicologists.

 

[azsummergirl]

So i popped in the Michael CD on my way home and had a nice long drive to just listen and think about this whole thing- as i've done many times. a new thought struck me this time.

we've mentioned many times that the cascio songs sound artificially michaeled up--like whoever made them TRIED to use words and phrases that michael has used in the past (eat your soul like a vegetable, anyone?)

well the real michael tracks do the same thing. Like best of joy, where he says "i am forever." Michael has definitely said this in the past, here at like 4:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XR7zpJlzT8&feature=fvst he's singing that peter pan song where he says "Dancing on a cloud...soaring up so high. Watch me now...watch me fly! I'm Peter Pan! I can do? anything. I soar so high!? I am forever!" which honestly, i used to think was an actual song but now i'm not so sure. is that from the broadway peter pan or something? i've never heard it anywhere else. anyway, to me it just doesn't seem like a one-time thing he would say. it seems like . . . deeper than that for him. and it doesn't seem like something someone else would pick up on and say "oh let's use this line to 'michael' something up, it means something"

and then obviously, slave to the rhythm, you know he's said that a bunnnch of times. i can only think of the oprah interview off the top of my head, but i know he said it more than that. My point is that things like that "i am forever" and "slave to the rhythm" are things i feel like mj probably DID say, and really did relate to at their heart, not just one-off sentences. they don't feel forced: they feel totally authentic. Like these FEEL like things michael jackson would say or sing. they make sense.

eat your soul like a vegetable or "heaven can wait", while definitely things michael has said (or kind of said) before, don't feel authentic. They don't feel like authentic thughts that he plucked out of his brain, they feel like contrived words that someone TRYING to sound like something michael would come up with.

i know what i wrote is kind of convoluted and doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense. what i guess i'm trying to say is again, for me, it all comes down to feeling. cascio songs feel contrived. the others sound authentic. And its not JUST the sound (though that's most of it) but it's everything. The pronunciation, these lyrics, and just the way i feel about them. everything.

and PS: yes, i know this is a total stretch and not a factual analysis of anything. i'm just offering a totally subjective observation. not EVERYTHING i believe is based solely on feeling, but this aspect of it definitely is, and i'm totally aware of that.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Maybe because they know what they included on the CD.

Or maybe they think they know and realized much too late the error!

So the single that was announced was Hold My Hand. Yet they stream a snippet of Breaking News? Duh! Why do you think? They were taking the temperature to see how fans would react. And it was a total disaster. Now those who should answer questions are hiding. Boo.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

Hollywood should have been streamed...breaking news was a test

 

[qbee]

Breaking News was destined to be streamed first in the cosmos, so everyone right off the bat could palm their face, say WTF and go on a FB, twitter and MJ forum rage rant. I always wonder what Sony and Estate were doign when they saw the response?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Breaking News was destined to be streamed first in the cosmos, so everyone right off the bat could palm their face, say WTF and go on a FB, twitter and MJ forum rage rant. I always wonder what Sony and Estate were doign when they saw the response?

They expected us to react in such a way, cuz they knew very well why they opted to stream it in the first place. They just hoped that we'll swallow the pill. Some digested it easily, some digested it with difficulty, some are still digesting it, some will never digested it, and some of us spat the pill back and are still puking because of the pill's bad taste.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I've found Eddie Cascio's and Jason Malachi's compromising document:

p.s. SONY & Estate are apparently approving it.

If I trusted Eddie, then I'd have to believe that MJ didn't like to be photographed here:

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Exactly. The entire processing idea is a fantasy born out of a desperate need to justify the way the vocals sound with little knowledge of what processing actually is. Your KYHU example is a good one. The reason the word "stay" is shaky at the end is not down to any processing technique. It is because that's how the singer sounded. Like you said, there would be absolutely no reason to do such a thing. What would be the point? It didn't achieve anything because KYHU sounds patently nothing like MJ to the ears of any long term fan. There are just far too many direct matches with Jason Cupeta for it be a coincidence either. If it was just the vibrato that would be one thing, but we have his dialect, pronunciation, snorts etc.

And Teddy knows the songs are fake. He said so to Taryll Jackson. That's why he actually passed on KYHU and begrudgingly worked on the others in the hopes that something genuine would come along, which is why he was stoked when he got Hollywood Tonight. Either way, he needed the money. He simply decided to convince himself it was Michael on the Cascio tracks rather than lose out on the work.

Isn't this a theory?

"Either way, he needed the money. He simply decided to convince himself it was Michael on the Cascio tracks rather than lose out on the work."

And really this Teddy/Taryll thing is a he said, he said situation




@BUMPER SNIPPET You do know it was not Eddie who said that Michael doesn't like to be photographed in the studio...It was Michael himself who said it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

@BUMPER SNIPPET You do know it was not Eddie who said that Michael doesn't like to be photographed in the studio...It was Michael himself who said it.

Well, it certainly does not explain that there is no single souvenir from their recording contrary to so many pics that are out there. I hope you do realize that.

 

[T.N.A.]

...It was Michael himself who said it.

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what..."

You can easily find numerous pictures and videos of Michael in the studio, so that's not really an argument.

 

[Chamife]

I have a lot of questions for Eddie Cascio, because he doesn't share a thing about this four (or three?) months experience with Michael in his studio.

I suggest a Q&A with Eddie.

 

[StellaJackson]

I have a lot of questions for Eddie Cascio, because he doesn't share a thing about this four (or three?) months experience with Michael in his studio.

I suggest a Q&A with Eddie.

10 weeks. And that wasn't continoous. Michael was in New York for part of the time that he was meant to be recording with Eddie.

Look at the date:

http://en.michaeljackson.ro/photo/m...e-cast-of-the-lion-king-show-in-new-york(350)

And further to prove it:

http://popdirt.com/michael-jackson-the-kids-attend-the-lion-king-screening/64428/

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/jacko_wigs_out_lion_king_ksCPHESbmTjmr7CCpwZXkJ

Please ignore the ignorant comments in the above piece. It was also during this trip that Michael did the photo shoot for Luomo Vogue. Remember, Michael arrived at the Cascios in mid August and was gone by early November for Jesse Jacksons birthday party in Beverly Hills. This proves it was not a continuous stay as we've been led to believe.

 

[Arklove]

if jasno sang these songs, there would have to be mj vocals to go along with it.

no, they didn't. If they knew, that means they had solid evidence telling them it's mj. Not just words from edfie cascio.

hehehehe

 

[Arklove]

I have a lot of questions for Eddie Cascio, because he doesn't share a thing about this four (or three?) months experience with Michael in his studio.

I suggest a Q&A with Eddie.

Joe Vogel already requested a Q&A with Edfie. If he can't do it, I doubt a bunch of fans can...

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

"It's a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what..."

You can easily find numerous pictures and videos of Michael in the studio, so that's not really an argument.

I'm just saying what Michael Jackson himself has said.

 

[Chamife]

Joe Vogel already requested a Q&A with Edfie. If he can't do it, I doubt a bunch of fans can...

MJJC fanclub is different. "Michael recorded these songs for his fans", so it must be a huge 'disappointment' for Eddie that these songs weren't received very well by his fans (just to name a reason).

Q&A also gives him the opportunity to explain some things.

I just wonder about the animo for this on MJJC. This must have been asked before?

 

[StellaJackson]

MJJC fanclub is different. "Michael recorded these songs for his fans", so it must be a huge 'disappointment' for Eddie that these songs weren't received very well by his fans (just to name a reason).

Q&A also gives him the opportunity to explain some things.

I just wonder about the animo for this on MJJC. This must have been asked before?

Eddie Cascio refuses to speak to anyone. The only thing he is disappointed about is the fact that we didn't fall for it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

MJJC fanclub is different. "Michael recorded these songs for his fans", so it must be a huge 'disappointment' for Eddie that these songs weren't received very well by his fans (just to name a reason).

Q&A also gives him the opportunity to explain some things.

I just wonder about the animo for this on MJJC. This must have been asked before?

Of course it was asked. Eddie has remained silent ever since.

Even if there is a Q&A session, they'd be filtered and only the butt-kissing and rubbing ones would be asked, just like it was the case with Frank Cascio's book.

 

[StellaJackson]

Of course it was asked. Eddie has remained silent ever since.

Even if there is a Q&A session, they'd be filtered and only the butt-kissing and rubbing ones would be asked, just like it was the case with Frank Cascio's book.

Agreed. And there is so much embellishment in that book. Like the story of how he ran to help Michael when the bridge came down during the MJ and Friends show in Munich. That is an outright lie. I was there and he simply did not do that. You can see on the video that he didn't do that. He's as shady as his brother.

 

[Chamife]

Eddie Cascio refuses to speak to anyone. The only thing he is disappointed about is the fact that we didn't fall for it.

Of course it was asked. Eddie has remained silent ever since.

Even if there is a Q&A session, they'd be filtered and only the butt-kissing and rubbing ones would be asked, just like it was the case with Frank Cascio's book.

So Eddie refused a Q&A with MJJC?

It's obvious when we ask for a Q&A with Eddie Cascio the focus is mostly on the songs.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

So Eddie refused a Q&A with MJJC?

It's obvious when we ask for a Q&A with Eddie Cascio the focus is mostly on the songs.

He addressed it once on Oprah with Teddy Riley and that was it. No more single reaction.

 

[love is magical]

Joe Vogel already requested a Q&A with Edfie. If he can't do it, I doubt a bunch of fans can...

Edfie!!! :lmao:

Stupid auto correct changed my typing when I didn't want it to; but, didn't work when my typing was actually wrong.

I'm just saying what Michael Jackson himself has said.

And, I can assure you we all know what Michael said in Moonwalk.

All my friends have heard me saying I don't like tomato. Yet, they all have seen me eating tomatoes.

 

[azsummergirl]

Michael probably DIDN'T like being filed on camera. but he's very dichotomous. Like he would tell camera-people to back up or take wide shots b/c i don't think he likes the up-close thing, but at the same time, he would call out during his tours to MAKE SURE people were recording. it seems he recorded absolutely everything. and this is the same guy who said his next step was going to be movies--how does somebody who wants to pursue a film career hate being filmed?

sure, i think he was self-conscious about it b/c he's been on camera his whole life and that's going to make anyone sick of being filmed. but at the same time, he wanted to document everything and he was fascinated by cameras. so it goes both ways.

anyway: "the way you love me" is sandwiched between KYHU and Monster. isn't that JARRING for you? 2 completely different people. forget about the cameras.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

The irony...

EDDIE CASCIO: I had been studying piano since the age of four, and my brother as well, and
as we grew up, we would play for Michael, and we both learned pretty much all of Michael's
songs. I'll take you down to the studio. It's in the basement. So this is the studio, and it didn't
always look like this. When Michael was here, there wasn't any drums or anything here. There
was just a box spring with a mattress. So he would sleep over here. Then I had sectioned off this
corner with curtains, black, dark curtains going all the way around it, with a flat-screen TV. So
he had, like, his little cave. Right here, we had--it wasn't this dance floor, but we had a regular,
wooden dance floor put in just for him. He was training every morning. He'd dance, and I would
be right here next to him dancing. Years later, fast forward to, I would say, the beginning of '07,
he came ready to work, and that's what we did. Spent long hours working in the studio,
recording. The vocals were done, actually, right in this room. I think Michael would be very
excited right now that the music that he was doing for his fans, they're finally going to get a
chance to hear it.

So according to Eddie:

-MJ came to record beginning 2007
-MJ was ready (not ill, not for fun)
-MJ did not record for Eddie but for his fans
-MJ would be excited about the release of such tracks (no mention of copy-pastes).

EDDIE CASCIO: I can tell you that it is Michael's voice. He recorded right there in my
basement

It's good that you can tell Eddie, 'cuz bunch of us cannot tell. Quite the contrary actually. Now, Eddie, set aside what you "can tell", give us something more tangible (worktape? video? handwritten notes? outtakes? demos? photos? any souvenir or anecdote from the recording session?)

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah, it was a home studio, and, you know, we worked. I was there pushing
the buttons. He was right there directing, and he--that's Michael Jackson.

No, we don't know Eddie. What was he doing? Directing or actually singing the songs? Both? Well, show some footages, show something more than just your word. That's all we're asking.




TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Well, I say to the
doubters, along with my friends who also worked with Michael over 20 years, over 25 years, this
is Michael's voice. And so many people, including some of the family, they doubt that it's him,
but we professionally, we've been around him.

Teddy, we not professionally, but FANATICALLY have been around MJ's music since our birth. Listening daily (not working, but LISTENING) to all his songs, analysing the slightest breath, the slightest note, the slightest hiccup, we the FANATICS don't hear our usual Michael Jackson's voice on those tracks.

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Because you can hear the
authenticity in his voice and you can hear, like, the natural part of him, and no one could really
do a scream like that strong scream on the music that you hear like Michael. I don't care if you
get anyone. They will never be able to duplicate Michael's voice.



No Teddy, that's the point we don't hear the authenticity in that voice AT ALL. Screams? Why don't you mention that you (or whoever) copy-pasted them on those songs?


EDDIE CASCIO: Well, I feel that Michael absolutely wanted these songs released. Michael did
it for his fans. He recorded for his fans, and it deserves to come out, and the fans deserve to hear
what the musical genius of Michael really is.


Michael absolutely wanted these songs released?
-Not one was included on This Is It Tour.
-No one ever heard about them.
-Michael did it for his fans in an underground studio with unrecognizable voice? Oh, "thanks" Eddie.
-Regarding MJ being genius, thank you Eddie, but we already knew he was a genius. But those songs certainly are far from showing any perfection whatsoever (especially with copy-pasted screams and breaths from Invincible and ripped off melodies, not to mention the goaty vibrato and odd voice timbre).

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): It's to continue his
legacy. I think--they're saying it's not perfect, but this is Michael's, you know, his art, and we
must continue his legacy. Michael's worst day is probably a lot of those people's, you know, best
day. So this is still Michael and this is, you know, what we...

Blahblahblah. Prove it instead of just talking. MJ didn't need to wait for those Cascio songs to continue his legacy.




-------------

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would Michael have liked the heat on this new album? Would he
like the controversy?

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): He'd love. He lives
controversy.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah.

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): He lives for it.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the fact that we're sitting here going "is it or isn't it?"

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Exactly. He would be--
he's smiling at us right now. "Just what I want you all to do."


Oh thank you so much Teddy and Eddie for bringing the controversy among MJ's fans. What would we do without you two?
But I don't recollect a single moment with such a serious controversy -- his very voice with no physical proof. When you create controversy then you also must be able to prove the contrary with other things than just your words. Big fail.

 

[StellaJackson]

So Eddie refused a Q&A with MJJC?

It's obvious when we ask for a Q&A with Eddie Cascio the focus is mostly on the songs.

He refused to speak to Joe Vogel for his book and that was just about the music. Porte also refused.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

[youtube]e-H1mCEAoiA&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]fjMBLdFhMwY&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]wQV81v-Iba8&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[StellaJackson]

Bumper- you should write out what Eddie said in the making of Michael video. He actually reveals exactly what Michael did in that studio. A little Freudian slip if you will. Remember how WBSS 08 credits the backing vocals as being recorded by Angelikson? The key clue being "backing". And that shower actually did play a role....See if you can spot it....


[youtube]15TxYH0hAjQ&ob=av2e[/youtube]

 

[ivy]

Of course it was asked. Eddie has remained silent ever since.

Even if there is a Q&A session, they'd be filtered and only the butt-kissing and rubbing ones would be asked, just like it was the case with Frank Cascio's book.

excuse me? "butt-kissing?" seriously?

and for the record a millionth time : Frank's Q&A was through his publisher and was about his book and was also conducted by his publisher. Songs was never relevant for that Q&A and I can assure you that only a minimal of the questions sent was asked / answered. So I really appreciate if this unfair portrayals stop.

So Eddie refused a Q&A with MJJC?

It's obvious when we ask for a Q&A with Eddie Cascio the focus is mostly on the songs.

he didn't refuse or accept anything. I was and still am in talks but with the upcoming trial (of birchey) I don't think it's likely to happen.