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Michael - The Great Album Debate

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Which is a normal situation. You hear MJ, you know it's him.




Your "because" is an attempt to find the excuse to why the voice is different. No matter the theory, the result is the same: the voice is different.
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No, it's the same voice : from "We've Got Forever" to "Monster". But the vocals on Breaking News were initially jarring. Just like they were on Beautiful Girl and Shout. But because those songs were not released in the same context as Breaking News (obviously), their strangeness didn't lead us to the same wrong conclusions.

Look, you're free to hold on to whatever convictions you want, but if Beautiful Girl had "Cascio-Porte-Jackson" in the credits, and if it had come out on "Michael", you'd be now saying it's obviously not MJ singing. It is a pretty bad vocal, all nasal and everything.
 
@kreen...I really think you should speak for yourself..you may think that Beautiful Girl or Shout or whatever other song doesn't sound like usual Mike (I really don't understand why), but obviously to other fans, it sounds like Michael has ALWAYS sounded...not like ANOTHER person, such as these Cascio songs...this all applies TO YOU...not to everyone else...The first time I heard BN, it sounded like someone else....NOW when I listen to BN...it still sounds like someone else...Are u seriously comparing a first reaction to Beautiful Girl or Shout to a first reaction to BN? Again, speak for yourself...
 
OnirMJ said:
That way you will only hurt Michael Jackson, not Sony. I will not buy anything with Cascio name on it. But I'll buy everything else that is genuine and real, including remixes.
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Please, most of the money the Estate makes doesn't come from the albums/projects they put out anyways.
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So they could care less if we buy what they'll release. Michael's kids certainly won't be affected by us not buying future albums and Michael's legacy is strong enough as it is, it doesn't need another number one or another album to go platinum or whatever...

This is where most of The Estate's money comes from... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing_artists

My point is, you shouldn't feel obligated to buy any shitty release they put out just because "if you don't, you're hurting Michael's name and his kids". Bollocks! You're not hurting anyone. On the contrary, you're slapping the egos of those who think we're dumb enough to buy any half-arsed product they put out. The Estate is doing just fine even if we don't buy the albums, don't worry about it.

Oh and of course, Michael's kids are doing perfectly fine too. All those artists who are signed to Sony/ATV are collectively making loads of money from which the Estate gets 50% of. Michael's kids are set for life. It's no surprise really, their dad was a smart businessman (among many other things as well) and he obviously knew what he was doing, setting his kids for life like that.
 
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In Beautiful girl Michael sings the 'she' with that little lisp, that I know he has sometimes.

[youtube]Gf-9t7F8LuI[/youtube]

1.56: Can you hear it? or 3.16 " Can't you see" (the 'see'). It is a tiny difference, but so recognizable. I have not discovered one little lisp or a 'ssshhhhon' like that in any Cascio song until this day.

And probably there are more trademarks, but I just listened quickly.

And the song has a beautiful arrangement of music. Mesmerizing...It's special, not like KYHU, which is pretty common (IMO)
 
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T.N.A. said:
Please, most of the money the Estate makes doesn't come from the albums/projects they put out anyways.
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So they could care less if we buy what they'll release. Michael's kids certainly won't be affected by us not buying future albums and Michael's legacy is strong enough as it is, it doesn't need another number one or another album to go platinum or whatever...This is where most of The Estate's money comes from... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing_artistsMy point is, you shouldn't feel obligated to buy any shitty release they put out just because "if you don't, you're hurting Michael's name and his kids". Bollocks! You're not hurting anyone. On the contrary, you're slapping the egos of those who think we're dumb enough to buy any half-arsed product they put out. The Estate is doing just fine even if we don't buy the albums, don't worry about it.Oh and of course, Michael's kids are doing perfectly fine too. All those artists who are signed to Sony/ATV are collectively making loads of money from which the Estate gets 50% of. Michael's kids are set for life. It's no surprise really, their dad was a smart businessman (among many other things as well) and he obviously knew what he was doing, setting his kids for life like that.
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Agreed....to me, Michael's legacy is more of a priority than the financial welfare of his kids who will be millionaires for the rest of their lives...I understand if they were dirt poor and would be thrown out on the streets as a result of fans not buying his posthumous albums, but I think we all know that won't happen lol
 
kreen;3613442 said:
If KYHU had been the first single, I would not have doubted for a second, and while many here will deny it, I am 100 % sure that the first few messages on this board upon first hearing this song would have been « OMG this song is so beautiful » and « MJ sounds so sweet I can’t believe it ».
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Kreen, you keep repeating this KYHU argument and I kinda agree, 'cause to me this song is the most convincing of the three. If KYHU had been the first single the outcry would probably have been less, but that doesn't metter because in a day or two we would have heard "Monster" and "Breaking News" anyway, so the total outcome would have been the same. Some of these songs may appear more convincing than others, that's all.
 
I can't imagine how anyone could think Beautiful Girl or Shout don't sound like MJ. They do. With the voice in the Cascio songs, it isn't just that they don't sound like Michael, it is who they DO sound like. Why won't any believer even attempt to explain the presence of JM's vocal tics, vibrato etc on these tracks? You can't just ignore it. You must have an explanation. And it's "processing" is not good enough. What specific processing technique? Can you name it and show other examples where a voice has developed such a vibrato as well as snorts and different pronounciation?
 
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I'm sensitive to Michael's ballads, so the first time I heard KYHU, it didn't sound anything like MJ to me...SOME parts are a bit more convincing, but overalll, no....IMO, the voice sounds quite amateur and young sounding, actually...
 
I'd like to see (if it hasn't been done allready) one of Michael's songs to be prosessed and see if it ends up sounding like Jason Malachi like the cascio tracks do
 
???????

I just want to say that when I first heard KYHU, I did not know ANYTHING about the song. I did not know it was a Cascio track at all. It still sounded like Jason Malachi to me.
 
kreen;3613442 said:
Of course not, but that's because the Cascio songs were created and released in a context that was totally different from any other MJ previous release. The « surprise » of those songs appearing out of the blue. The Jacksons’ accusation that the songs were fake. The « Frankenstein » nature of many of the songs. And to top it all off, the release of BN – a strange track by any definition -- as the first single.
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These are all contextual issues. I would still be interested to hear what convinced you, despite believing that the vocals sound off to the extent that you thought impersonators were used, that it is really Michael? What accounts for the voice sounding so different?

If KYHU had been the first single, I would not have doubted for a second, and while many here will deny it, I am 100 % sure that the first few messages on this board upon first hearing this song would have been « OMG this song is so beautiful » and « MJ sounds so sweet I can’t believe it ».

By the same token, if the first leaked Cascio song had been “Shout” or “Beautiful Girl”, those would have been considered fake by people around here.
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I simply cannot comprehend how you can compare the Cascio songs to Shout and Beautiful Girl. These two songs sound unequivocally like Michael to me.

In fact, it will be interesting when the next album of MJ unreleased tracks is released, because, if you guys believe that the Estate now knows that 3 tracks were fake, but didn’t do anything about it, it means that they might do the same thing again next time. So you’ll always have this doubt, not just on the Cascio tracks but on ANY track that is not known from before, that the singer might be a fake.

Say the next album has a cover of, say, Prince’s “When Doves Cry”, and the voice sounds like the voice on “Shout”, or “Beautiful Girl”, or KYHU”. And all they say is, yeah, MJ recorded this for fun around 2005 in Neverland. How will you guys accept this song’s authenticity?
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If it sounds like Michael, just like all his songs except for the Cascio tracks always have, I have no problems doing so.
You’ll be tortured over the possibility it’s fake. While I’ll be bopping my head to the sweet sounds of MJ. From now on, you’ll always be stuck in a hell of your own making when it comes to enjoying any future release.
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A hell of our own making? None of us ever asked for these songs to be released.

Honestly kreen, this statement just comes across to me as promoting ignorance whenever you are in doubt. As if it is better to just stick your head in the sand and ignore what you really think and feel. "Just believe the songs are authentic, because otherwise you will always torture yourself over the possibility that they are fake and never enjoy a new release like you used to." Well, as much as I would like to look forward to a new MJ release without the idea that they did it once and could possibly do it again lingering in the back of my mind, nothing is more important to me than the truth. I do not hear Michael on these songs, I hear Jason Malachi. The so-called evidence that it is Michael is not convincing to me and neither are the explanations for why the vocals sound so 'different'. I am not going to pretend that I do not have all these concerns and that it is him, just because that would allow me to enjoy the 'Michael' album.
 
analogue said:
I'd like to see (if it hasn't been done allready) one of Michael's songs to be prosessed and see if it ends up sounding like Jason Malachi like the cascio tracks do
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This was done to various tracks, including Beat It and Earth Song, and uploaded to Soundcloud. JabMe removed them for alleged copyright.
 
T.N.A. said:
Please, most of the money the Estate makes doesn't come from the albums/projects they put out anyways.
24.gif


So they could care less if we buy what they'll release. Michael's kids certainly won't be affected by us not buying future albums and Michael's legacy is strong enough as it is, it doesn't need another number one or another album to go platinum or whatever...

This is where most of The Estate's money comes from... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing_artists

My point is, you shouldn't feel obligated to buy any shitty release they put out just because "if you don't, you're hurting Michael's name and his kids". Bollocks! You're not hurting anyone. On the contrary, you're slapping the egos of those who think we're dumb enough to buy any half-arsed product they put out. The Estate is doing just fine even if we don't buy the albums, don't worry about it.

Oh and of course, Michael's kids are doing perfectly fine too. All those artists who are signed to Sony/ATV are collectively making loads of money from which the Estate gets 50% of. Michael's kids are set for life. It's no surprise really, their dad was a smart businessman (among many other things as well) and he obviously knew what he was doing, setting his kids for life like that.
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You completely misunderstood everything I said. I would buy everything "that is genuine and real, including remixes". For me MICHAEL album would be awesome if all 10 songs were sung by Michael Jackson. I look to that album as a remix album of unreleased material.

It's not about money, of course, and I don't really care that much about who is making money now after Michael is gone (I am the fan of Michael Jackson only, I'm not the fan of his children and his family). It's really disturbing to me that his family didn't do anything about Cascio songs except few twitter statements. Also I think that Jackson family had really bad influence on the kids. Paris is starting to act like LaToya in public, and that twitter account that she has... Everything good that MJ thought them will be replaced with what Jacksons are saying and doing. I think that it would be better for the kids if they stayed with Diana Ross.

And of course it is about Michael's legacy. And if Michael Jackson fans won't buy his albums, who will? When new MJ album sells like MICHAEL did, the media will crucify Michael, not Sony or The Estate. So my opinion is that I'll buy everything that is genuine and real, including remixes.
 
Willy said:
Kreen, you keep repeating this KYHU argument and I kinda agree, 'cause to me this song is the most convincing of the three. If KYHU had been the first single the outcry would probably have been less, but that doesn't metter because in a day or two we would have heard "Monster" and "Breaking News" anyway, so the total outcome would have been the same. Some of these songs may appear more convincing than others, that's all.
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To me KYHU is the most convincing that it is Jason. That song (and Stay) sounds exactly like him to me. I can not believe how can anyone hear Michael in those songs. Breaking News sounds more like Michael than KYHU.
 
OnirMJ said:
And of course it is about Michael's legacy. And if Michael Jackson fans won't buy his albums, who will? When new MJ album sells like MICHAEL did, the media will crucify Michael, not Sony or The Estate.
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Crucifying a dead man for not selling enough albums? That's really low... even for them. No one in their right mind would waste their time doing that, and no one in their right mind would bother taking that kind of stuff seriously, especially coming from the B.S. media everybody seems to be hating (rightfully so).

Like I said, Michael doesn't need another number one, another album to go platinum in 15 countries worldwide, an award for album of the year or whatever... Why would he? Would he stop being the King Of Pop if his next album would sell less than 5m copies worldwide? Would his strong legacy be destroyed if his next single goes all the way to #2 but not to #1? Would his previous work disappear and people won't get a chance to listen to his classics? Would Michael be remembered for his unfinished posthumous releases or for his groundbreaking videos, top selling albums, worldwide concerts, donations to charity, etc?

The answer is the obvious one...
 
OnirMJ said:
To me KYHU is the most convincing that it is Jason. That song (and Stay) sounds exactly like him to me. I can not believe how can anyone hear Michael in those songs. Breaking News sounds more like Michael than KYHU.
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Don't get me wrong. I don't hear Michael in KYHU, it's just that out of the three it resembles Michael most, to me at least. I guess it depends on the doubter.
 
T.N.A.;3613512 said:
Crucifying a dead man for not selling enough albums? That's really low... even for them. No one in their right mind would waste their time doing that, and no one in their right mind would bother taking that kind of stuff seriously, especially coming from the B.S. media everybody seems to be hating (rightfully so).

Like I said, Michael doesn't need another number one, another album to go platinum in 15 countries worldwide, an award for album of the year or whatever... Why would he? Would he stop being the King Of Pop if his next album would sell less than 5m copies worldwide? Would his strong legacy be destroyed if his next single goes all the way to #2 but not to #1? Would his previous work disappear and people won't get a chance to listen to his classics? Would Michael be remembered for his unfinished posthumous releases or for his groundbreaking videos, top selling albums, worldwide concerts, donations to charity, etc?

The answer is the obvious one...
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Don't worry. It will happen. It started already with Immortal (although it's just remix/soundtrack) album. We all know that Michael had an amazing career. But why he couldn't have an amazing posthumous career also? He don't need that, but he can have it. I'm not saying that he has to be on the top again, but the fans need (in my opinion) support all genuine and real (without Cascio name on it) releases or re-releases. The situation is not great in the Estate with many songs being unfinished, missing vocal parts or conflicts with producers like will.i.am and RedOne. But that music has to be released and we (the fans) should support it and keep Michael's legacy alive. 2Pac has very successful posthumous career and his Estate released 7 studio albums after he died (he had only 4 released while he was alive). I was hoping to see something similar with Michael's posthumous career. But that wouldn't happen if The Estate keep releasing fake songs and fans boycotting new releases. I understand if someone decide to boycott an album with fake songs on it, but boycotting genuine Michael Jackson album is just stupid.

I'll quote Joe Vogel from his Hollywood Tonight article:

"...That’s the nature of posthumous releases. They will always be imperfect and they will always generate fierce debate.
But for most music lovers, we will take whatever new Michael Jackson we can get, whether demos, new mixes or remixes. “Hollywood Tonight” could be gathering dust in a vault; instead, it has people dancing in the streets."
 
Willy said:
Don't get me wrong. I don't hear Michael in KYHU, it's just that out of the three it resembles Michael most, to me at least. I guess it depends on the doubter.
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Yes, it obviously depends on the "knower". For me Monster sounds nothing like Michael Jackson. KYHU sounds most like Jason Malachi to me, with some parts that sounds like Michael. Breaking News sounds most like Michael in my opinion. And that is just few lines in the whole song!
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
The Cascio's sudden appearance of 12 songs:


LapinChapeau.jpg


SONY's offices and negotiators for the songs:


smoke-and-mirrors.jpg


The Estate's report:


charter1.jpg


The general public (after hearing the second streaming of Breaking News and after reading the Estate's report):

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A doubter (as seen by some believers):

black-sheep_1719970i.jpg





p.s. Hello NASTY, how are you today?
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LOL! yep that pretty much sums it all
 
StellaJackson said:
Does anyone have Jason's a capella videos or either of those a capella clips of him singing? They've all been taken off youtube.

Scratch that. I found the prick. Only one video though. The rest are gone.
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You really have to call him a "Prick" ?
What has he done to you or anyone to deserve that ?

See just like 05.



@OnirMJ I can't believe anyone will think it's not Michael Jackson.
 
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