Michael - The Great Album Debate

Does anyone have Jason's a capella videos or either of those a capella clips of him singing? They've all been taken off youtube.

Scratch that. I found the prick. Only one video though. The rest are gone.
 
I remember emitting different hypothesis why "he" sounded different. I suggested to people to try to listen to the songs in their cars and what not in order to maybe detect MJ's voice. But actually, the noise of the engine of the car covered even more the voice so inbetween the noises you sort of hear something sounding like MJ. But after that stupid exercise of mine, I said to myself, hold on a moment, this is not supposed to be a normal condition of listening to MJ. Do I have to actually cover the voice with the engine noise in order to (sort of) hear him? Of course the blurriest the voice, the more difficult to say who's singing, many little sound exercises proved it in this thread when people were posting few seconds long snippets of bad quality (supposedly?) MJ's voice.
So I stopped making up excuses and had to face the reality of the matter -- not MJ's voice.

I refuse to make any kind of excuse why "he" sounds different. It is indeed farfetching when the excuses are used such as "processing" (which means nothing at all since all MJ's songs have been processed throughout his career and never did he sound like that), or excuses such as because he was sick, or because of the studio environment, etc.

He was not sick, Eddie confirmed that "he" was ready and that "he" was training every day and that "they" were working hard to record those songs.

Poor studio environment does not affect the voice, it only affects the quality of the recording. We all know that there are some MJ's songs that haven't been recorded in a proper studio, yet his voice does not sound as the one on the Cascio tracks.

Regarding the Estate's report, it is not that I willingly do not want to believe them, but the truth of the matter is that I don't want to lie to myself what I hear. So the Estate's window-dressing report, in order to convince the doubters, should be more tangible than pulling wool over our eyes.

There is no conspiracy from the doubters' parts, nor any accusations, we just don't hear MJ. Only when it is proven that it is MJ, then we will believe it. The same goes if the opposite is proven. If it is not MJ, then someone is guilty about all this mess. It is one way or the other. But if there is fraud the responsibles will never admit their guilt, that's a fact.

I was the same...After trying to make all sorts of excuses as to why I was hearing what I was hearing (or not hearing lol), there came a point when you realize, ok, this isn't how MJ is supposed to be listened to!...And that should be a red flag right there...that you have to use all sorts of excuses to explain what the hell is going on...That's worrying to me...

I was looking forward to that statement because I thought somehow I'd be satisfied with the information they'd give us....Still, after reading that statement, that nagging feeling just didn't go away...The statement just gave us their word...But without anything to back it up AND not hearing MJ, it just didn't and still doesn't settle well..

So really, I think a lot of doubters really tried to hear MJ and really attempted to give all responsible the benefit of the doubt...At least with me, I had a hard to saying anything was 'fake'....But, after awhile, I just had to agree that these songs may just not be Michael....That's the most simplest answer to me....
 
Okay people who are for logic and rational thinking: Explain why does this comparison sound like a new song with one and the same singer? Why do the 2 'different' voices blend this easily? Huh huh?...:D
 
KingMikeJ;3612609 said:
Please explain how it is impossible for Jason Malachi to be the singer of the Cascio tracks.

1- If he was the singer, a lot of people who have to know about it : the whole Cascio family, including mother and father, James Porte and family, Malachi's wife, a bunch of friends, etc. There's no way all of those people could keep such a fraud secret over such a long period of time.

2- When one commits a risky crime, one must benefit from it. Malachi couldn't have benefited from this crime in terms of credit (he had to remain anonymous for the whole thing to work), and we can tell he didn't benefit in terms of money (he still works 9 to 5 in the same job).

3- The Jacksons, who love to sue, would have sued by now if the evidence provided by the Cascios (vocal analysis? affidavits?) wasn’t convincing.

4- The Estate, who are real professionals dealing with millions of dollars and very much aware of the legal ramifications of everything, would have taken legal action of some sort if they thought the songs were fake, instead of actually using them again on another official product (MJ Immortal Tour).

5- There’s also the fact we have no reason to believe Eddie Cascio has ever even met Jason Malachi.

So there you go – basically impossible!
 
Once again avoiding all the issues with the songs. Sigh.

1. They would if there was a lot to lose and a lot of money involved.

2. The first rule when profiting from a crime is that you don't flash your cash. You carry on as normal. Besides he might have put it away for his children's future. And there is reason to believe that money was not the main motivating factor for him. And how do you reckon that he doesn't benefit? Just because he isn't credited (obviously) doesn't mean he wasn't paid.

3. Actually the Jackson's have no reason to sue. They aren't beneficiaries. And it would actually cost them a lot of money to do it and they would do more harm than good to the future earning potential of the Estate by showing what a mistake they made.

4. The Estate got duped. For them to admit that now would be aboutely disasterous. They (at least John McClain) had major concerns. There is no reason to believe that they know any more than us. And if they were such "professionals" they would not have let highly questionable tracks appear in the first place. And the actual lead vocals were removed from Immortal.

5. So? They aren't going to publicise it are they? And just because there is no proof they ever met doesn't mean they didn't. Is that the best you can come up with?

None of this explains all the issues with the songs: snorts, vibrato, pronounciation, accent. The fact thay sound nothing like Mj and everything like JM. Obviously you can't answer these questions.
 
Last edited:
A few quick points :

1- I've had email contacts with Joe Vogel, and he doesn't claim that the Cascio tracks are fake; he just wishes more info could be given as to their origins. So do I; maybe it will come at some point. For all we know, such evidence could be withheld right now precisely because of some court case launched by anti-Cascio people. And even if Vogel started believing the songs are fake, it wouldn't change anything to the facts.

2- As to all that "processing" talk, here's the deal : the vocals on KYHU sound just like usual MJ to me. If that song had been the first released song from the album, there would have been no controversy or debate. If Malachi is also able to sing like that, well congrats to him : he's an incredible MJ impersonator. Which, by the way, makes the hoax theory even more far-fatched : it would have made much more sense for Malachi, in the wake of MJ's death, to use his incredible talent for mimicry in an official, non-anonymous way, and to try to have a career in that way, than for him to anonymously record fake tracks, risk his liberty and potentially ruin his family. Psychologically, the motivations of all the "players" in the so-called conspiracy make no sense.

Still on the subject of processing, the vocals on BN and Monster sound like there's "something" done to them in some way : even if you're anti-Cascio, you have to admit that, because the voice on those two songs doesn't sound the same as that on KYHU. Hey, maybe there's TWO impersonators?

3- As for everybody who keeps saying "I can't believe anybody hears MJ on those tracks", it just goes to show how your emotions and psychological belief in the conspiracy theory influence what yoo hear. Like I've said a million times, the only way this hoax you believe in could have happened is if the impersonator they hired sounded amazingly close to the real MJ. If they'd hired someone who sounds nothing like MJ, like you say, there would be no Cascio song on the Michael album, because nobody would have thought they were the real deal. I'll also point out to you that for a large number of intimate MJ collaborators and producers, the songs are legit, as the Estate has pointed out.

So basically, if you say "the Cascio songs do sound a lot like MJ, but not quite, and that's why I think they're fake", then I have time for you. But if you say they sound nothing like MJ, to the point that you know for a fact just by listening to them that they are sung by an impersonator, then you're holding on to a self-contradictory opinion, because if the voice was so dissimilar to the real thing, there would have been no possibility of hoax in the first place.
 
A few quick points :

1- I've had email contacts with Joe Vogel, and he doesn't claim that the Cascio tracks are fake; he just wishes more info could be given as to their origins. So do I; maybe it will come at some point. For all we know, such evidence could be withheld right now precisely because of some court case launched by anti-Cascio people. And even if Vogel started believing the songs are fake, it wouldn't change anything to the facts.

2- As to all that "processing" talk, here's the deal : the vocals on KYHU sound just like usual MJ to me. If that song had been the first released song from the album, there would have been no controversy or debate. If Malachi is also able to sing like that, well congrats to him : he's an incredible MJ impersonator. Which, by the way, makes the hoax theory even more far-fatched : it would have made much more sense for Malachi, in the wake of MJ's death, to use his incredible talent for mimicry in an official, non-anonymous way, and to try to have a career in that way, than for him to anonymously record fake tracks, risk his liberty and potentially ruin his family. Psychologically, the motivations of all the "players" in the so-called conspiracy make no sense.

Still on the subject of processing, the vocals on BN and Monster sound like there's "something" done to them in some way : even if you're anti-Cascio, you have to admit that, because the voice on those two songs doesn't sound the same as that on KYHU. Hey, maybe there's TWO impersonators?

3- As for everybody who keeps saying "I can't believe anybody hears MJ on those tracks", it just goes to show how your emotions and psychological belief in the conspiracy theory influence what yoo hear. Like I've said a million times, the only way this hoax you believe in could have happened is if the impersonator they hired sounded amazingly close to the real MJ. If they'd hired someone who sounds nothing like MJ, like you say, there would be no Cascio song on the Michael album, because nobody would have thought they were the real deal. I'll also point out to you that for a large number of intimate MJ collaborators and producers, the songs are legit, as the Estate has pointed out.

So basically, if you say "the Cascio songs do sound a lot like MJ, but not quite, and that's why I think they're fake", then I have time for you. But if you say they sound nothing like MJ, to the point that you know for a fact just by listening to them that they are sung by an impersonator, then you're holding on to a self-contradictory opinion, because if the voice was so dissimilar to the real thing, there would have been no possibility of hoax in the first place.

How many times do you have to be told that no one here is anti Cascio? We recognise Jason on the songs and not Michael. You need to stop with comments like "your emotions and psychological belief in the conspiracy theory influence what yoo hear". I recognise Jason and not Michael. If you don't have anything to add to this debate other than labelling people then you should leave. We hear what we hear because we hear it, not because of what anyone else says. How do you explain the fact that I recognised Jason on BN before I even knew of any of this controversy? I could just as easily say that you are influenced by the Estate's statement. As for KYHU, have you heard the pre Stewart mix? It sounds nothing like Michael and imo is the worst fake on the album. Jason did use his talent in an official way before MJ's death - see A Hero Fell. Those collaborators know no more than us. There are other producers and collaborators, including Rodney Jerkins, who said it doesn't sound like Michael. And fyi there is no court case that has been launched by anti-Cascio people. From now on how about we refer to you as an anti-Jackson conspiracy theorist? Why don't you actually address the specific issues with the songs? Because you can't.

But seriously you need to stop labelling us conspiracy theorists, especially when you yourself shared the same view at one point.
 
Last edited:
kreen;3613034 said:
1- If he was the singer, a lot of people who have to know about it : the whole Cascio family, including mother and father, James Porte and family, Malachi's wife, a bunch of friends, etc. There's no way all of those people could keep such a fraud secret over such a long period of time.

2- When one commits a risky crime, one must benefit from it. Malachi couldn't have benefited from this crime in terms of credit (he had to remain anonymous for the whole thing to work), and we can tell he didn't benefit in terms of money (he still works 9 to 5 in the same job).

3- The Jacksons, who love to sue, would have sued by now if the evidence provided by the Cascios (vocal analysis? affidavits?) wasn’t convincing.

4- The Estate, who are real professionals dealing with millions of dollars and very much aware of the legal ramifications of everything, would have taken legal action of some sort if they thought the songs were fake, instead of actually using them again on another official product (MJ Immortal Tour).

5- There’s also the fact we have no reason to believe Eddie Cascio has ever even met Jason Malachi.

So there you go – basically impossible!

My guess is that the Cascios did have some tapes of MJ singing this song, but not enough and nothing that could be released, so they got a sound-alike to sing the rest of the vocals. Cannot believe Sony got fooled.

Deja vu kreen?
 
Last edited:
@kreen...why don't you put KYHU and Much Too Soon or any other ballad for that matter side by side comparison and let's just see how 'usual' MJ sounds when compared...Maybe then someone, somewhere, somehow can take all your psychoanalytical assumptions seriously...YOU of all people should be able to relate to the doubters as you were in our place at one point...so don't try and act like you don't remember what it felt like before you decided to listen to the official, legal version instead of what your ears are telling you ..I think I speak for a lot of us when I say I'm sick and tired of you putting us all in the same damn basket because it fits whatever non-sensical beliefs you now hold for these tracks...I'm beginning to think you just like hearing yourself talk..It seems that maybe you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else...really, everything we say to you goes through one ear and out the other...
 
My guess is that the Cascios did have some tapes of MJ singing this song, but not enough and nothing that could be released, so they got a sound-alike to sing the rest of the vocals. Cannot believe Sony got fooled.

Deja vu kreen?

Or these?

"This is not MJ : Sony got punk'd by the Cascios. This could be the biggest scandal in the music industry since Milli Vanilli.

The only place you can hear MJ on the song is during the chorus, and even that is way in the background.

My guess is that the Cascios did have some tapes of MJ singing this song, but not enough and nothing that could be released, so they got a sound-alike to sing the rest of the vocals. Cannot believe Sony got fooled. Can the album even be legally released now?"

"Maybe the Sony execs really did think those vocals were real. And it's apparent from various sources that they wanted more recent material for the album, and there isn't a lot of it. So when the Cascios showed up with these tracks, Sony thought they'd hit the jackpot : recent MJ songs from 2007!"

And here applying the same argument that he now criticises us for..

"I don't think it's like that at all. The Sony people involved in putting the album together probably thought all those Cascio songs were the real deal. I mean, the Cascios were indeed good friends of Michael Jackson's, and they do have a home studio, and MJ did spend time with them in 2007. So the story was believable. Of course, to music or MJ fans like us, the vocals sound very fake, or at least very suspicious, but to a bunch of music executives, they probably sounded like MJ.

My question to you in particular would be : after listening to the Monster snippet, do you think it is really MJ singing?"

So what changed your mind Kreen? Because the Estate said so?
 
Last edited:
My guess is that the Cascios did have some tapes of MJ singing this song, but not enough and nothing that could be released, so they got a sound-alike to sing the rest of the vocals. Cannot believe Sony got fooled.

Deja vu kreen?
Hahaha.
 
Kreen has never denied that he initially believed the tracks to be fake though. I too do wonder what changed your mind, kreen, and more specifically: given that you clearly felt that the vocals sounded like an impersonator and not like Michael, what do you believe to be the reason for this? What explains why the vocals sounds so different?
 
Or these?

"This is not MJ : Sony got punk'd by the Cascios. This could be the biggest scandal in the music industry since Milli Vanilli.

The only place you can hear MJ on the song is during the chorus, and even that is way in the background.

My guess is that the Cascios did have some tapes of MJ singing this song, but not enough and nothing that could be released, so they got a sound-alike to sing the rest of the vocals. Cannot believe Sony got fooled. Can the album even be legally released now?"

"Maybe the Sony execs really did think those vocals were real. And it's apparent from various sources that they wanted more recent material for the album, and there isn't a lot of it. So when the Cascios showed up with these tracks, Sony thought they'd hit the jackpot : recent MJ songs from 2007!"

And here applying the same argument that he now criticises us for..

"I don't think it's like that at all. The Sony people involved in putting the album together probably thought all those Cascio songs were the real deal. I mean, the Cascios were indeed good friends of Michael Jackson's, and they do have a home studio, and MJ did spend time with them in 2007. So the story was believable. Of course, to music or MJ fans like us, the vocals sound very fake, or at least very suspicious, but to a bunch of music executives, they probably sounded like MJ.

My question to you in particular would be : after listening to the Monster snippet, do you think it is really MJ singing?"

So what changed your mind Kreen? Because the Estate said so?

Well, lookie, lookie....kreen, where exactly was your 'AH HA!' moment to all of a sudden cause you to hear MJ now?

There must have been SOMETHING in the songs that made you hear MJ? Or is it the statement and big suits that told you it's Michael, so it must be?

Whatever...if people wanna change their minds, that's their right...But don't forget what it felt like before you go around and label us as conspiracy theorists and anti-Cascio people...
 
My guess is that the Cascios did have some tapes of MJ singing this song, but not enough and nothing that could be released, so they got a sound-alike to sing the rest of the vocals. Cannot believe Sony got fooled.

Deja vu kreen?

I don't believe Sony got fooled either. I believe they knew all along who really sang the vocals.
 
I don't believe Sony got fooled either. I believe they knew all along who really sang the vocals.

Unless a real incompetent team of businessmen who heard the tracks and negotiated their price really got fooled.
 
By the way, something weird has been happening in this thread. Between midnight and 1am (UK time) the number of guests viewing the thread shoots up to between 103 and 110. After half an hour or so it goes back to normal. I've seen this 4 nights in a row now. It's been the same numbers at the same time every night.
 
By the way, something weird has been happening in this thread. Between midnight and 1am (UK time) the number of guests viewing the thread shoots up to between 103 and 110. After half an hour or so it goes back to normal. I've seen this 4 nights in a row now. It's been the same numbers at the same time every night.
I noticed that too...
 
By the way, something weird has been happening in this thread. Between midnight and 1am (UK time) the number of guests viewing the thread shoots up to between 103 and 110. After half an hour or so it goes back to normal. I've seen this 4 nights in a row now. It's been the same numbers at the same time every night.

I noticed yesterday 84 viewers too.

It is since I suggested to Gaz to make the thread open to reach more viewers that it's been happening. Combine that with what Paris tweeted not long ago, and you get the rising number of viewers. In one month we have had like 500 000 views
it passed from 800 000 to 1 300 000 views
 
Back
Top