Michael - The Great Album Debate

[ivy]

Oh, yes you were provoking him. What did he said that you called him obsessed? He made an observation on a thread about the Cascio songs.So the right comment in the right place. So why with the obsessed thing? And if we take it a little bit further, if Stella is obsessed, then we all are obsessed. so you are actually offending every single one in here, including yourself, (if that is possible of course.)

Sorry but picking just one post of mine if flawed. Let's look to my second post shall we?

that was a serious concern. I can't imagine seeing a picture for the first time and the first thing that comes to mind and/or your comment is Cascio songs. You can't even enjoy the picture. Quite sad if you ask me. there's a lot more to life then these songs.

I wasn't trying to insult or provoke anyone. whether you see it or not it was serious and genuine concern. There was a documentary, there was new previously unseen footage, everyone was trying to see it, everyone was trying to guess the date the song being recorded etc. There was an excitement and happiness. However the first thing from Stella's mouth was about Cascio songs. It seemed quite a sad thing to me. and yes I wrote that in the hopes that he can perhaps let it go and enjoy the new unseen things.

If you want to twist it to an "evil" thing on my part go ahead. I know my heart of hearts.

furthermore yes the events of some fans finding themselves in trouble has amplified my concerns and made this obsession a real thing for me. So I take it perhaps a lot more seriously. I did express my concerns before to multiple people. I had told people to stay away so that they wouldn't get hurt (guess who those were), told people not to mention the stolen songs etc.

So if you all want to act like I single out Stella and I do it with bad intentions, again be my guest but there are people that knows this is not the first time I expressed a concern to them.

No, actually he said whatever and you kept provoking him and at some point even suggesting that you are concerned about his mental health? Let me see The thing is that some people here who have been witness of you exaggerating on a situation between you and Stella, thought of supporting him. Now you are trying to make it sound like we exaggerate but who is exaggerating i believe everyone here can see it.

No the topic was done but then Arklove kept poking - again that's the thing that I said you all make it bigger and bigger and took it longer to longer. I had stopped, I had said "no comment" but when you all kept poking I said exaggerated emotions such as "I'll shoot myself" is not normal.

So, all in all what i'm trying to say is that if you provoke then be prepare for people to answer back. :yes:

So yes if you keep poking people you'll get more than you bargain. If you didn't want this to continue any further you should have stopped it the moment when Stella said "whatever" and when I said "no comment". If you are going to question me and my intentions, I will explain myself and that might come with stuff you don't want to hear.

If I "provoke" Stella I would expect him to respond back as he's an adult. If I "provoke" Stella, I don't expect Arklove, TNA, telli-mj, Bumper etc. to respond back. Do you see anyone responding back for me? Noooo. Because I'm indeed an adult and I don't need a defense team.

People did jump out to defend Stella, but from where I'm sitting, I didn't see it as a personal attack directed at you.

re-read the posts. I indeed expressed that I had a serious concern which was ridiculed with lols, I was accused of singling Stella out and that I was obsessed with him.

There's a respectful way to disagree with what I have written and there's a way to turn it into a personal things.

----------------------

And you know what : sorry that I cared. I won't care anymore. Who cares if you hear monster in background someplace, if they release another song and if you go crazy, who cares if this gives you stress (and you know it) and yet continue to put yourself in the middle of more stress, who cares if people get sued or go to prison. Damn me for thinking about you and wanting you to be a lot more relaxed and happy and enjoy the rare new things without always having a Cascio thought in the back of your minds. Such a insult yeah I see it now.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Sorry but picking just one post of mine if flawed. Let's look to my second post shall we?

that was a serious concern. I can't imagine seeing a picture for the first time and the first thing that comes to mind and/or your comment is Cascio songs. You can't even enjoy the picture. Quite sad if you ask me. there's a lot more to life then these songs.

I wasn't trying to insult or provoke anyone. whether you see it or not it was serious and genuine concern. There was a documentary, there was new previously unseen footage, everyone was trying to see it, everyone was trying to guess the date the song being recorded etc. There was an excitement and happiness. However the first thing from Stella's mouth was about Cascio songs. It seemed quite a sad thing to me. and yes I wrote that in the hopes that he can perhaps let it go and enjoy the new unseen things.

If you want to twist it to an "evil" thing on my part go ahead. I know my heart of hearts.

furthermore yes the events of some fans finding themselves in trouble has amplified my concerns and made this obsession a real thing for me. So I take it perhaps a lot more seriously. I did express my concerns before to multiple people. I had told people to stay away so that they wouldn't get hurt (guess who those were), told people not to mention the stolen songs etc.

So if you all want to act like I single out Stella and I do it with bad intentions, again be my guest but there are people that knows this is not the first time I expressed a concern to them.



No the topic was done but then Arklove kept poking - again that's the thing that I said you all make it bigger and bigger and took it longer to longer. I had stopped, I had said "no comment" but when you all kept poking I said exaggerated emotions such as "I'll shoot myself" is not normal.



So yes if you keep poking people you'll get more than you bargain. If you didn't want this to continue any further you should have stopped it the moment when Stella said "whatever" and when I said "no comment". If you are going to question me and my intentions, I will explain myself and that might come with stuff you don't want to hear.

If I "provoke" Stella I would expect him to respond back as he's an adult. If I "provoke" Stella, I don't expect Arklove, TNA, telli-mj, Bumper etc. to respond back. Do you see anyone responding back for me? Noooo. Because I'm indeed an adult and I don't need a defense team.



re-read the posts. I indeed expressed that I had a serious concern which was ridiculed with lols, I was accused of singling Stella out and that I was obsessed with him.

There's a respectful way to disagree with what I have written and there's a way to turn it into a personal things.

----------------------

And you know what : sorry that I cared. I won't care anymore. Who cares if you hear monster in background someplace, if they release another song and if you go crazy, who cares if this gives you stress (and you know it) and yet continue to put yourself in the middle of more stress, who cares if people get sued or go to prison. Damn me for thinking about you and wanting you to be a lot more relaxed and happy and enjoy the rare new things without always having a Cascio thought in the back of your minds. Such a insult yeah I see it now.

Don't see it as an attack from my part Ivy, but why not taking the concern simply in private?

 

[Arklove]

And you know what : sorry that I cared. I won't care anymore. Who cares if you hear monster in background someplace, if they release another song and if you go crazy, who cares if this gives you stress (and you know it) and yet continue to put yourself in the middle of more stress, who cares if people get sued or go to prison. Damn me for thinking about you and wanting you to be a lot more relaxed and happy and enjoy the rare new things without always having a Cascio thought in the back of your minds. Such a insult yeah I see it now.

Ivy, is SARCASM your favourite '-asm'?

 

[ivy]

Don't see it as an attack from my part Ivy, but why not taking the concern simply in private?

again bumper it was freaking over already. stella had written "whatever" , I had written "no comment". It was done and over in my book, it was a non-event. Yet people keep poking and poking and making this longer and bigger that it should have been. You are all wonderful in creating negativity and drama when there's none. And how is still talking about this benefiting anyone? How?

I'm done with some people on this thread. I can't even post a one sentence without people turning it into a major drama. I promise I won't care anymore. Do whatever you please. Be affected by this thing till the eternity. See if I'll give a damn about anymore.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

again bumper it was freaking over already. stella had written "whatever" , I had written "no comment". It was done and over in my book, it was a non-event. Yet people keep poking and poking and making this longer and bigger that it should have been. You are all wonderful in creating negativity and drama when there's none. And how is still talking about this benefiting anyone? How?

I'm done with some people on this thread. I can't even post a one sentence without people turning it into a major drama. I promise I won't care anymore. Do whatever you please. Be affected by this thing till the eternity. See if I'll give a damn about anymore.

But ivy, the question is not after the "whatever" comment, but the very first one you posted about being obsessed. Before Stella reacted.

I mean, I try to imagine a classroom and see someone who apparently is obsessed. I would talk to him/her in private about the concern, not in public in front of everyone. Wouldn't you?

At the same time, we are all as adults as you are. How would you respond if someone publicly told you that he or she is concerned about your obsession about Michael Jackson, MJJC, or things you daily do in your life?

 

[Chamife]

You know, I closely followed him (not geographically), and I witnessed how much MJ's populariry was tarnished by the accusations. It all ended in 1993. The rest of his career he tried so hard to re-build it, but the press continuously suggested that he was a pedophile.

Maybe it started before 1993. I'm not sure, but didn't the tabloids already starting to mock him before that? I have the feeling Michael was too perfect in their eyes. He didn't drink or smoke or used drugs and he was incredibly sweet and he looked good. And then to have that enormous success. They had nothing on him but had to find something. Maybe it really was some sort of jealousy.

Another thing he should have never done imo was that interview with Oprah. MJ's private life is none of anyone's business. Also, the one billion contract in 1991 with SONY definitely affected MJ's freedom of creativity.

A think a lot of fans were fooled and there are others who simply refuse to even accept the possibility. And I understand that. I really do. I would do anything for the songs, regardless of quality, to be Michael. I'd rather have the crappiest MJ songs ever than a masterpiece sung by a soundalike simply because of what such a thing represents: betrayal and exploitation. But I can't help, what to me, is instantly recognisable.

When I saw that video Bumper posted, in which you saw again what an artist he was and what sacrifices he had to make for that and what he was deprived of because of that and the incredible hard work he put into into everything he did....(I hate to say it and like you I wish I wouldn't have to say it, also because I really don't like accusing people of things) It makes me sad and angry to think they used someone elses voice.

 

[Arklove]

But ivy, the question is not after the "whatever" comment, but the very first one you posted about being obsessed. Before Stella reacted.

I mean, I try to imagine a classroom and see someone who apparently is obsessed. I would talk to him/her in private about the concern, not in public in front of everyone. Wouldn't you?

At the same time, we are all as adults as you are. How would you respond if someone publicly told you that he or she is concerned about your obsession about Michael Jackson, MJJC, or things you daily do in your life?

Point is, when someone's mental health, and so-called obsession is questioned in a public thread, expect to get a response...There's no way around that...

 

[Arklove]

Maybe it started before 1993. I'm not sure, but didn't the tabloids already starting to mock him before that? I have the feeling Michael was too perfect in their eyes. He didn't drink or smoke or used drugs and he was incredibly sweet and he looked good. And then to have that enormous success. They had nothing on him but had to find something. Maybe it really was some sort of jealousy.

I remember watching on TV Michael's public announcement and response to the allegations in 1993...I was only 11 years old, but my heart was breaking for him...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Maybe it started before 1993. I'm not sure, but didn't the tabloids already starting to mock him before that? I have the feeling Michael was too perfect in their eyes. He didn't drink or smoke or used drugs and he was incredibly sweet and he looked good. And then to have that enormous success. They had nothing on him but had to find something. Maybe it really was some sort of jealousy.

Yes, he was called all names, there were many invented stories, but never th epress suggested he was a paedophile. So the invented stories did not affect his career or image. On the contrary, it triggered curiosity and people wanted to see him. People were impressesd when they saw him.

But once he gave the interview to Oprah, the mythical MJ was replaced by someone who trusted the press enough to talk about his private life. And yet again the press twisted around things despite what he had said to Oprah. (Later to Bashir.)

Before that, despite the newspapers articles about MJ sleeping in an oxygen chamber, and all sorts of rumours, he was also extremely respected as even the press knew that the stories were invented. MJ never said any of those rumours to anyone. He expressed himself back through the songs like "Leave me alone"

[youtube]crbFmpezO4A&ob=av2e[/youtube]

Although hurtful to MJ, the press back then was nothing compared to what he endured after the accusations. MJ did it very well with Leave me alone, and Oprah was unnecessary (except to voyeurs who wanted to know every single detail of MJ's private life). Michael unveiling his private life was like removing Santa Claus's beard in front of a child. The myth was over, and it was time to find new sorts of rumours. Shortly after Michael got accused.

SONY, instead of fighting, advised to move on by settling out of court. Later on, despite MJ's trimendeous efforts and creativity (Ghosts video), the promotion was extremely poor. Still today there's even no DVD for it, just a VHS distributed on the European market (a VHS????? although everyone already had been buying movies on DVDs).

Later on SONY promoted MJ even less (we all saw, well thsoe who remember) how poorly Invincible was promoted. Many seem tend to forget that. Clearly the one billion that SONY paid to MJ, was to own him and not to produce him. Today we have a turmoil with the Cascio songs.

Now look at this video (pre-Oprah and pre-SONY era) and see how Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall reacted when they had THE MAN, THE LEGEND, THE MYTH standing in front of them (despite the oxygen chamber rumours and so on):

[youtube]M5Ht6ue7wMs[/youtube]

 

[Rudolf]

SONY, instead of fighting, advised to move on by settling out of court. Later on, despite MJ's trimendeous efforts and creativity (Ghosts video), the promotion was extremely poor. Still today there's even no DVD for it, just a VHS distributed on the European market (a VHS????? although everyone already had been buying movies on DVDs).

Well, that is just shocking and mindblowing in it's worst. I still can't believe it's not released ..

 

[Arklove]

Yes, he was called all names, there were many invented stories, but never th epress suggested he was a paedophile. So the invented stories did not affect his career or image. On the contrary, it triggered curiosity and people wanted to see him. People were impressesd when they saw him.

But once he gave the interview to Oprah, the mythical MJ was replaced by someone who trusted the press enough to talk about his private life. And yet again the press twisted around things despite what he had said to Oprah. (Later to Bashir.)

Before that, despite the newspapers articles about MJ sleeping in an oxygen chamber, and all sorts of rumours, he was also extremely respected as even the press knew that the stories were invented. MJ never said any of those rumours to anyone. He expressed himself back through the songs like "Leave me alone"

[youtube]crbFmpezO4A&ob=av2e[/youtube]

Although hurtful to MJ, the press back then was nothing compared to what he endured after the accusations. MJ did it very well with Leave me alone, and Oprah was unnecessary (except to voyeurs who wanted to know every single detail of MJ's private life). Michael unveiling his private life was like removing Santa Claus's beard in front of a child. The myth was over, and it was time to find new sorts of rumours. Shortly after Michael got accused.

SONY, instead of fighting, advised to move on by settling out of court. Later on, despite MJ's trimendeous efforts and creativity (Ghosts video), the promotion was extremely poor. Still today there's even no DVD for it, just a VHS distributed on the European market (a VHS????? although everyone already had been buying movies on DVDs).

Later on SONY promoted MJ even less (we all saw, well thsoe who remember) how poorly Invincible was promoted. Many seem tend to forget that. Clearly the one billion that SONY paid to MJ, was to own him and not to produce him. Today we have a turmoil with the Cascio songs.

Now look at this video (pre-Oprah and pre-SONY era) and see how Eddie Murphy and Arsenio Hall reacted when they had THE MAN, THE LEGEND, THE MYTH standing in front of them (despitte the oxygen chamber rumours and so on):

[youtube]M5Ht6ue7wMs[/youtube]

That's what I loved about him....When he was surrounded in myth...I believe that's the way he wanted it...In that way, people wanted more and more and more....Waited with bated breath for his next appearance, album, performance etc.....He was everywhere, but yet, still quite a mystery....It drew people to him...He was a showman at heart....

We never had to know his private life...Everything we needed to know about Michael is expressed in his music, his voice, his dance, his love for people around the world...The rest is fluff and for nosy people, really...Once that privacy was broken, he became vulnerable...I don't think he should have done the Oprah interview either, although I do enjoy it...Unfortunately, all the best questions (about his music) were never asked...

 

[ivy]

At the same time, we are all as adults as you are. How would you respond if someone publicly told you that he or she is concerned about your obsession about Michael Jackson, MJJC, or things you daily do in your life?

It depends on how you approach to it. My bf jokes that how I can't be separated from the Internet. My grandmother tells everyone how I'm still focused on Michael starting from childhood. I have a million penguin shaped stuff in my home, some of my friends call me "crazy penguin lady". They all do it publicly, I have on my own freewill wrote that stuff about me here and I don't see it as an insult. When my bf comes to my side and say that "it's a wonderful day outside come let's sit on the deck" I don't chew his head. Regardless of whether I listen to him or not I don't see it a terrible thing that people care about me, think about me. That's not a bad thing either in my book.

If you remember just a while ago you said " we are all obsessed" so it wasn't a bad thing then but now it become a negative thing?

It's the approach that's the problematic here. In my heart of hearts I had a genuine concern and felt sad that Stella can't enjoy a picture and a documentary without thinking about Cascio songs. There wasn't any bad intentions. But as I said if you want to approach to it with negativity and assume the worst just because I have a different opinion then you do about the songs if you want to assume that I'm singling him out and do it to insult, provoke or with bad intentions, go ahead. I truly do not care.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

That's what I loved about him....When he was surrounded in myth...I believe that's the way he wanted it...In that way, people wanted more and more and more....Waited with bated breath for his next appearance, album, performance etc.....He was everywhere, but yet, still quite a mystery....It drew people to him...He was a showman at heart....

We never had to know his private life...Everything we needed to know about Michael is expressed in his music, his voice, his dance, his love for people around the world...The rest is fluff and for nosy people, really...Once that privacy was broken, he became vulnerable...I don't think he should have done the Oprah interview either, although I do enjoy it...

Well as a fan, of course I enjoy it too. Also, it did allow to many people who didn't know him to get to know him better.

Unfortunately it also had side effects. Ceasing to be what he had been before that interview -- a living myth.

Questions were way too personal:

who are you dating with?
why is your skin fair?
how many surgeries did you do?
did you propose to Liz?
blahblahblah

that's no one's f.....g business. Do we ask each other all the medical, details, private life details, etc?

As Chamife said, Michael was regarded as someone healthy, who never (publicly) smoked or drank or did drugs or whatever else...

And as if it were not enough, you have a "close firend" of him who just after Murray's trial (where MJ's was portrayed as a drug addicted by Murray's lawyers, later on even some fans called him a drug addicted), writes a book in which he says that MJ smoked weed. I mean, for real? Come on. What's this constant need to go through people's tiniest secrets and private life and gossips?

I damn the day Michael signed the contract in 1991. He wouldn't have had a billion dollar contract, but he'd probably been still around. Money is a terrible thing, and once you get caught into the money whirl, it's heavily difficult to get out of it without damage. No wonder MJ's was stressed out during the rehearsals of This Is It...

 

[Arklove]

More dance footage...Cooooool! :wild:

[YouTube]awm3VRu2HFM[/YouTube]

 

[Arklove]

Well as a fan, of course I enjoy it too. Also, it did allow to many people who didn't know him to get to know him better.

Unfortunately it also had side effects. Ceasing to be what he had been before that interview -- a living myth.

Questions were way too personal:

who are you dating with?
why is your skin fair?
how many surgeries did you do?
did you propose to Liz?
blahblahblah

that's no one's f.....g business. Do we ask each other all the medical, details, private life details, etc?

As Chamife said, Michael was regarded as someone healthy, who never (publicly) smoked or drank or did drugs or whatever else...

And as if it were not enough, you have a "close firend" of him who just after Murray's trial (where MJ's was portrayed as a drug addicted by Murray's lawyers, later on even some fans called him a drug addicted), writes a book in which he says that MJ smoked weed. I mean, for real? Come on. What's this constant need to go through people's tiniest secrets and private life and gossips?

I damn the day Michael signed the contract in 1991. He wouldn't have had a billion dollar contract, but he'd probably been still around. Money is a terrible thing, and once you get caught into the money whirl, it's heavily difficult to get out of it without damage. No wonder MJ's was stressed out during the rehearsals of This Is It...

You forgot the infamous 'Are you a virgin?'...I mean, really? Would she have asked ANYONE else that? I seriously doubt that...And, as far as I know, she never did...

That's also why I didn't agree with Frank doing a book (or any other friend for that matter)..He keeps quiet after all these years, and then, boom, when Michael dies, writes a book? Sorry, but a true friend keeps details of a special friendship private...Michael's need for privacy was just so, so different than for the rest of us....I mean, we all have a right to privacy, but we all take it for granted....To Michael, it was like a life preserver...He knew that being a celebrity came with the cost of the loss of a private life...But whatever of that private life he managed to hang on to for dear life, was, once again, thrown into the public eye....It's just sad that a 'friend' had to be the one to do that...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

It depends on how you approach to it. My bf jokes that how I can't be separated from the Internet. My grandmother tells everyone how I'm still focused on Michael starting from childhood. I have a million penguin shaped stuff in my home, some of my friends call me "crazy penguin lady". They all do it publicly, I have on my own freewill wrote that stuff about me here and I don't see it as an insult. When my bf comes to my side and say that "it's a wonderful day outside come let's sit on the deck" I don't chew his head. Regardless of whether I listen to him or not I don't see it a terrible thing that people care about me, think about me. That's not a bad thing either in my book.

If you remember just a while ago you said " we are all obsessed" so it wasn't a bad thing then but now it become a negative thing?

It's the approach that's the problematic here. In my heart of hearts I had a genuine concern and felt sad that Stella can't enjoy a picture and a documentary without thinking about Cascio songs. There wasn't any bad intentions. But as I said if you want to approach to it with negativity and assume the worst just because I have a different opinion then you do about the songs if you want to assume that I'm singling him out and do it to insult, provoke or with bad intentions, go ahead. I truly do not care.

But are you as close to Stella as your bf and your friends are with you?

Besides, I honestly had the same reaction as Stella when I saw the video, I just didn't post it. Because we are in the Cascio thread we automatically expect to see a footage from the Cascio session. Yet we keep on getting the footages of other people and other studios in this very thread. That doesn't mean that it prevents anyone from enjoying to see those new footages. It's just that it triggers this feeling correlation to this thread and frustration that we haven't seen MJ in the Cascio studio as claimed by the Cascios.

I suppose that actually many doubters had the same reaction, but didn't post it. Stella did it though. So when you expressed your concern for Stella, I think we all felt being called obsessed about the Cascios, when in reality we are as a matter of fact obsessed by MJ, not by the Cascios.

As yuor initial reaction was public, I don't think that people meant to jump to attack you, but to defend themselves about your concerns as we somewhat all have more or less the same kind of obsession.

On the other hand, I was reading the Birchey thread, and I thanked you to indicate me the thread, I was appalled by some people behavior and ability to spread literal hate without even knowing the facts and before Birchey ever got the chance to present his case to the judge. Yet some fans were calling out for punishment and what not before the trial even started. I couldn't help but react and write how unecessary such a hate was before knowing the facts. I unfortunately haven't seen you raised any concern, which honestly was three times worse than Stella's little remark regarding the Cascio absence of vidoe footage.

 

[azsummergirl]

More dance footage...Cooooool! :wild:

[YouTube]awm3VRu2HFM[/YouTube]

i love that it's foggy in the room. What up with that? is that just michael jackson's cool-ness manifesting itself in a phsyical way? and he's such a boss. i mean, come on, walks into room, kills rehearsal, leaves. ughgghg there has to be more to this footage, i want to see the whole thing.

 

[Arklove]

i love that it's foggy in the room. What up with that? is that just michael jackson's cool-ness manifesting itself in a phsyical way? and he's such a boss. i mean, come on, walks into room, kills rehearsal, leaves. ughgghg there has to be more to this footage, i want to see the whole thing.[/QUOTE

hahaha...yeah, it'll all creep out slowly like STTR did...LOOOL...This type of thing just gives me such joy...Seriously, who else can do that? In a 1:20 min clip?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

i love that it's foggy in the room. What up with that? is that just michael jackson's cool-ness manifesting itself in a phsyical way? and he's such a boss. i mean, come on, walks into room, kills rehearsal, leaves. ughgghg there has to be more to this footage, i want to see the whole thing.[/QUOTE

hahaha...yeah, it'll all creep out slowly like STTR did...LOOOL...This type of thing just gives me such joy...Seriously, who else can do that? In a 1:20 min clip?

[youtube]0V7_aqZ-L0A[/youtube]

 

[Arklove]

[youtube]0V7_aqZ-L0A[/youtube]

He couldn't even do it in 3 mins

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

He couldn't even do it in 3 mins

Liar. Why are you standing in front row and screaming then, trying to touch him?

 

[Arklove]

Liar. Why are you standing in front row and screaming then, trying to touch him?

I see some guys in the audience too....Ooooh, I see you!

 

[Pentum]

Funny how the Estate are giving footage of MJ rehearsing (and studio picture) for this documentary to promote the IMMORTAL World Tour, but when promoting the MICHAEL album with the "Making of", they didn't include any footage to even show that Michael had anything to do with the songs (something all fans wanted to see).

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Funny how the Estate are giving footage of MJ rehearsing (and studio picture) for this documentary to promote the IMMORTAL World Tour, but when promoting the MICHAEL album with the "Making of", they didn't include any footage to even show that Michael had anything to do with the songs (something all fans wanted to see).

Cue Eddie's word cannot be questioned. He's a friend.

 

[ivy]

I unfortunately haven't seen you raised any concern, which honestly was three times worse than Stella's little remark regarding the Cascio absence of vidoe footage.

Really now?

My first post in that thread : "This is a terrible and serious lawsuit for the people involved. I don't think joking about it as well as encouraging it is highly inappropriate." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606663&viewfull=1#post3606663

then "Regardless of difference in opinions in regards to this situation, I have written multiple times that I don't want to see Birchey get hurt in this situation" - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606892&viewfull=1#post3606892

then "those people are fellow MJ fans , so let's hope for a middle of the road outcome which doesn't hurt anyone." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606913&viewfull=1#post3606913

then - "I also want to say that as MJJC staff we don’t want to see anyone – especially a fellow MJ fan that we know and loved for a long time – to get hurt. As I said to Birchey multiple times, our hope is that this gets resolved in a friendly manner and Birchey & Cartman as well as other parties can walk away from this with no damages whatsoever." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606950&viewfull=1#post3606950

then - "As I also pointed out it's not our place to determine who is right or wrong. It's a question for a court, judge and jury." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606981&viewfull=1#post3606981

then "Probably the best thing to do is to wait and see what is uncovered at trial." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607006&viewfull=1#post3607006

then "yes it shouldn't be forgotten that we are talking about fellow MJ fans here, people that we know." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607022&viewfull=1#post3607022

then "I will still wish the best for Birchey and Cartman and try my best to keep this thread free of rash attacks on them but to be honestly his wife is making this somewhat hard with her non-stop focus on MJJC. " - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607158&viewfull=1#post3607158

then "Either believe one of them or wait until you have more information." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607290&viewfull=1#post3607290

then"Does "no more Cascio songs on future releases" worth seeing two fellow MJ fans in prison? Umm No When will people realize that they are talking about the future life of two fans here and realize perhaps it's a lot more valuable than this Cascio obsession?" - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607325&viewfull=1#post3607325

So Dear Bumper - I'm open to criticism but please be fair. I expressed concern multiple times and I did remind people - again multiple times- that they are talking about fellow fans and the life and future of those people were more important than anything.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Really now?

My first post in that thread : "This is a terrible and serious lawsuit for the people involved. I don't think joking about it as well as encouraging it is highly inappropriate." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606663&viewfull=1#post3606663

then "Regardless of difference in opinions in regards to this situation, I have written multiple times that I don't want to see Birchey get hurt in this situation" - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606892&viewfull=1#post3606892

then "those people are fellow MJ fans , so let's hope for a middle of the road outcome which doesn't hurt anyone." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606913&viewfull=1#post3606913

then - "I also want to say that as MJJC staff we don’t want to see anyone – especially a fellow MJ fan that we know and loved for a long time – to get hurt. As I said to Birchey multiple times, our hope is that this gets resolved in a friendly manner and Birchey & Cartman as well as other parties can walk away from this with no damages whatsoever." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606950&viewfull=1#post3606950

then - "As I also pointed out it's not our place to determine who is right or wrong. It's a question for a court, judge and jury." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3606981&viewfull=1#post3606981

then "Probably the best thing to do is to wait and see what is uncovered at trial." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607006&viewfull=1#post3607006

then "yes it shouldn't be forgotten that we are talking about fellow MJ fans here, people that we know." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607022&viewfull=1#post3607022

then "I will still wish the best for Birchey and Cartman and try my best to keep this thread free of rash attacks on them but to be honestly his wife is making this somewhat hard with her non-stop focus on MJJC. " - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607158&viewfull=1#post3607158

then "Either believe one of them or wait until you have more information." - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607290&viewfull=1#post3607290

then"Does "no more Cascio songs on future releases" worth seeing two fellow MJ fans in prison? Umm No When will people realize that they are talking about the future life of two fans here and realize perhaps it's a lot more valuable than this Cascio obsession?" - http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Sony-Server.?p=3607325&viewfull=1#post3607325

So Dear Bumper - I'm open to criticism but please be fair. I expressed concern multiple times and I did remind people - again multiple times- that they are talking about fellow fans and the life and future of those people were more important than anything.

Yes, you did address those concerns to everyone. I never denied it.

But you've seen for example Memefan litterally advocating hatred and her firm standing by that hatred. I was surprised not to see a comment from you to her.

Here you take Stella's post alone, you don't speak to the public in general contrary to that other thread. That's why I asked you, if only Stella is your concern, why not take it on PM with him?

ETA: for me, there are two pedagogies there. One when you speak to everyone at the same time so no one feels singled out (Birchey's thread) and the other pedagogy when you single someone out, which usually is done in private, not in front of everyone (this case here).

 

[StellaJackson]

Here is the Breaking News a capella. Ignore the pasted breaths, samples etc and focus on the lead vocals. Pay particular attention to the bridge. http://floriceg.multiply.com/video/...el_Jackson?&show_interstitial=1&u=/video/item

The most obvious snort is at 1:16.

Now listen to this Jason track. Sorry I can't find an a capella version. That is unquestionably the same voice. I know I'm preaching to the converted here but this just isn't right.


[youtube]4aJupUgecKk[/youtube]

 

[ivy]

Yes, you did address those concerns to everyone. I never denied it.

well you said you haven't seen me raise any concerns which is a flawed statement.

But you've seen for example Memefan litterally advocating hatred and her firm standing by that hatred. I was surprised not to see a comment from you to her.

a little reminder about that thread. what happened when Memefan wrote such posts? weren't pentum and stella quick to respond to her and they discussed it back and forth? Yes they did.

everyone was able to discuss and express their point of views. there was no need for me to defend anyone or jump on the back of anyone, both sides were perfectly capable. remember when I said if there's an issue between me and Stella, I don't expect to see other people involved in it. The same logic. I don't play lynch mob or defense team for anyone. And this is a discussion forum. If people are able to express and disagree/ agree on their own they don't need me to be their cheerleader.

furthermore : the initial posts were written when I was asleep and even were moderated by the time I got up.

ETA: for me, there are two pedagogies there. One when you speak to everyone at the same time so no one feels singled out (Birchey's thread) and the other pedagogy when you single someone out, which usually is done in private, not in front of everyone (this case here).

so then you are also against the posts that singled memefan out and didn't take it to pm then? or is the okay because it got your permission.

To be clear - this is a discussion forum. people discuss. We talk to each other by quoting each other. we do it for the majority of the time on public platform. there have been posts addressed to me as well which pretty much singled me out and no one did it in private - not even once. I'm on this thread as another member and not a moderator.

And I'm terribly bored with this topic. I'll go and get obsessed with red leather pants and when I'm gone you can all discuss my mental health.

 

[Lucilla]

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

well you said you haven't seen me raise any concerns which is a flawed statement.

No Ivy, it is not a flawed statement. Let's compare what's comparable. I was comparing Stella's individual post with anyone else's individual post. You cannot compare statements to the people in general and individual posts.

a little reminder about that thread. what happened when Memefan wrote such posts? weren't pentum and stella quick to respond to her and they discussed it back and forth? Yes they did.

Yes they did, so did I because her statements were shocking and much more worrying than Stella's remark inhere. So I don't get the point.

everyone was able to discuss and express their point of views. there was no need for me to defend anyone or jump on the back of anyone, both sides were perfectly capable. remember when I said if there's an issue between me and Stella, I don't expect to see other people involved in it. The same logic. I don't play lynch mob or defense team for anyone. And this is a discussion forum. If people are able to express and disagree/ agree on their own they don't need me to be their cheerleader.

First, I didn't expect you neither to defend, nor to attack anyone. I expected you to raise your concern, since you seem to be concerned about Stella. So why not about Memefan whose statements were much more serious and grave than Stella's?

Second, if publicly you express your concern about Stella instead of doing it privately, expect people to feel concerned too (on the same level as you) about your remark to Stella. If it had been done privately, no one would have reacted except you and Stella.

furthermore : the initial posts were written when I was asleep and even were moderated by the time I got up.

I think as an international community we all experience the same regarding the timeframe. I don't see why is it all of sudden a problem.

so then you are also against the posts that singled memefan out and didn't take it to pm then? or is the okay because it got your permission.

I won't react to your sarcastic "permission" part, but you seem to forget that Memefan publicly stated and stood by what she said about Birchey. So, of course her shocking statements were going to trigger public reaction. Memefan's was talking about depriving another fan from freedom, not about her opinion regarding a song or a footage. Let's not mix up all. She from the starters singled out Birchey and found him guilty before the trial and the verdict. Furthermore, Memefan wasn't really singled out, she got reactions based on the topic itself, whereas Stella was singled out based on the concern of his mental health (which is out of scope). So the two pedagogies cannot be compared in this instance.

To be clear - this is a discussion forum. people discuss. We talk to each other by quoting each other. we do it for the majority of the time on public platform. there have been posts addressed to me as well which pretty much singled me out and no one did it in private - not even once. I'm on this thread as another member and not a moderator.

Then you are just as obsessed as Stella or anyone else inhere, because you raised your concern about his number of posts in this thread, yet you have done the same as a member.

And I'm terribly bored with this topic. I'll go and get obsessed with red leather pants and when I'm gone you can all discuss my mental health.

Ok, in case you didn't know, as far as I am concerned I am completely cuckoo.