Michael - The Great Album Debate

[StellaJackson]

I noticed yesterday 84 viewers too.

It is since I suggested to Gaz to make the thread open to reach more viewers that it's been happening. Combine that with what Paris tweeted not long ago, and you get the rising number of viewers. In one month we have had like 500 000 views
it passed from 800 000 to 1 300 000 views

Yeah but it rises all of a sudden and then goes back down equally quickly at the same time every night.

ETA: I've just heard that Eddie Cascio has cloned an army of Jason Malachis and has been sending them here at night to learn how to do better on the next batch of fakes.

Well Mr Cascio, your clones are impressive.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Yeah but it rises all of a sudden and then goes back down equally quickly at the same time every night.

I don't know if it is normal or a bug. But I also noticed that the number of views are never counted one by one, but all of sudden it rises by thousands or dozens of thousands too.

 

[qbee]

80 - 130 who then ??? That's a large number to be any specific group of people other then prime time zones peak times. IMO
Wow maybe it the whole casico clan or 130 Sony Executives Or maybe its prime time for UK spammers. They strike in the midnight hours when they think no one is watching.. If it rises and leaves quickly, It may be search engine scanning bots. Now Im curious.? but I dont think its any kind of conspriracyy where 130 people are spying on this thread.

Next Time Post it- right now ...

There are currently 14 users browsing this thread. (9 members and 5 guests)

 

[StellaJackson]

Someone should take some screenshots tonight.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

80 - 130 who then ??? That's a large number to be any specific group of people other then prime time zones peak times. IMO
Wow maybe it the whole casico clan or 130 Sony Executives :lol: Or maybe its prime time for UK spammers. They strike in the midnight hours when they think no one is watching.. If it rises and leaves quickly, It may be search engine scanning bots. Now Im curious.? but I dont think its any kind of conspriracyy where 130 people are spying on this thread.

oke:

 

[StellaJackson]

I can't get on the last page. It keeps sending me to page 1704 when I click on 1705.

Edit: this post fixed it.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

HELLO

 

[Arklove]

edit..

 

[Calisto]

What's the tracklist for Jason Malachi's first album? I can't seem to find a credible source.

 

[Jesta]

Thread Information
There are currently 70 users browsing this thread. (6 members and 64 guests)

Huh... I wonder if Eddie or Nasty is singing this to their computer screen right now:

Nothing you can say,
Nothing you can do,
We Be Trollin' You.

 

[StellaJackson]

There are currently 84 users browsing this thread. (8 members and 76 guests)

 

[Calisto]

Michael Jackson sounds amazingly like Jason in this clip:

http://hu.lk/pjyxziq38kk7

Great piece of audio. I'm surprised Jab Me Music hasn't buried it yet. They must have misplaced the shovel.

 

[StellaJackson]

Back to normal. There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 3 guests)

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Back to normal. There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 3 guests)

[youtube]NzlG28B-R8Y[/youtube]

 

[kreen]

Or these?


So what changed your mind Kreen? Because the Estate said so?

Yes, at first I was just like you. Then, as I've explained in numerous posts before, I realized it couldn't be an impersonator, that the differences were easily explainable in some other way, and that my initial, emotional, first-impression reaction was wrong.

Whereas you guys have just stuck to your first impressions.

The fact I went through this whole process myself makes my current contributions to this debate MORE, not less, relevant. Because it shows, when it comes to me at least, that it's not about taking a side and sticking to it, but about really trying to ascertain the truth of the matter.

 

[kreen]

Well, lookie, lookie....kreen, where exactly was your 'AH HA!' moment to all of a sudden cause you to hear MJ now?

There must have been SOMETHING in the songs that made you hear MJ? Or is it the statement and big suits that told you it's Michael, so it must be?

Whatever...if people wanna change their minds, that's their right...But don't forget what it felt like before you go around and label us as conspiracy theorists and anti-Cascio people...

Since some people here at so good at the ol' search function, I'll let them dig out the numerous posts where I talk about my whole thought process that led me from being a doubter to a believer -- hey, I sound like a born-again Christian now!

I'm like John McClain : I went from early doubt in the face of the obvious strangeness of the songs to confidence in their authenticity.

 

[Arklove]

Because it shows, when it comes to me at least, it's not about taking a side and sticking to it, but about really trying to ascertain the truth of the matter.

You don't think that's what we're trying to do as well? You think we all just wasted our time in these 1700 pages? We're trying to find out WHY he sounds the way he does, WHY there are missing elements of Michael's vocals that we hear in every single MJ song he's ever released...We want to know WHY these elements are missing....

The truth of the matter is that we have NO information about these songs....NOTHING.

And stuck to our first impressions? Um, no...I think we've all explained how many times we've listened to these songs, so much that I'm beyond sick of listening to them to try and hear MJ....I STILL DO NOT hear him...I cannot change that...I guess others can. How fantastic! I wish I could do that

 

[StellaJackson]

Well firstly we don't know for an absolute fact that McClain was confident in their authenticity. The last comment attributed to McClain was that he had asked for certain songs to be removed, according to Jackie Jackson. Now one could argue that McClain could have used his power as co-executor to have the songs removed. But we don't know the details of the contract between Sony and the Estate. Sony paid that money to have distribution rights to MJ's songs until 2017 and to release 10 music related projects. What we don't know is who has the final decision on the material. Plus we don't know all the details about what exactly went on behind the scenes so it would be pointless to speculate. What matters is the songs themselves. And there are serious questions that still need to be answered.

And as for the differences (matches to Jason) being explainable in a different way. Well please do that. And can you support that with some sources or other examples? We have Mj recorded out and about, on the phone etc and he never sounded like that. Plus we have Michael recorded on the same equipment in the same studio and at the same time. Again he sounds nothing like the Cascio vocalist.

Also, this isn't about taking sides. It is about the inability of fans, many of whom have decades of experience listening to MJ, not being able to hear him on these tracks. That's one thing but the fact that they sound exactly like Jason Malachi to us is serious. His vocal tics are on these records. Now you can find another way to explain them, which nobody has done to a satisfactory level yet, but they are there.

 

[azsummergirl]

hypothetical situation:
it's 2014. sony and the estate announces a new michael jackson CD to be released with never-before-heard tracks. How do you feel?

Ok, so now the CD comes out. track 2 is soldier boy. track 8 is black widow. How do you feel?

i was just thinking about this today. I feel like they've completely ruined michael jackson cd releases for all time. Obviously, it will never be the same as it was anyway. But i was still EXCITED for michael to come out. I was really excited. And then i was totally furious and crushed. I can never be excited about a "new" michael jackson release ever again, b/c i'm so terrified that they're gonna screw it up.

And not just a "michael wouldn't have released it with this arrangement" or "michael would have ad libbed here"--it's a given that we'll never get his genius touch on it again. But i'm talking a BIG screw up like "the lead vocalist on this song isn't michael jackson." i mean, how much worse could they have done here? if i heard there was a new CD coming out, my first reactions would be fear and dread, not happiness and excitement. depressing.

 

[StellaJackson]

hypothetical situation:
it's 2014. sony and the estate announces a new michael jackson CD to be released with never-before-heard tracks. How do you feel?

Ok, so now the CD comes out. track 2 is soldier boy. track 8 is black widow. How do you feel?

i was just thinking about this today. I feel like they've completely ruined michael jackson cd releases for all time. Obviously, it will never be the same as it was anyway. But i was still EXCITED for michael to come out. I was really excited. And then i was totally furious and crushed. I can never be excited about a "new" michael jackson release ever again, b/c i'm so terrified that they're gonna screw it up.

And not just a "michael wouldn't have released it with this arrangement" or "michael would have ad libbed here"--it's a given that we'll never get his genius touch on it again. But i'm talking a BIG screw up like "the lead vocalist on this song isn't michael jackson." i mean, how much worse could they have done here? if i heard there was a new CD coming out, my first reactions would be fear and dread, not happiness and excitement. depressing.

I will never buy any cd released by Sony and the Estate again. I used to buy several copies of every MJ album but now I just don't want to. That's the place they've put me and many other fans in. Maybe if they treated the opinions of fans with a little respect then I might think about it. But I know how you feel. I dread the next release. As far as I'm concerned, after the atrocity of "Michael" they needn't bother. And that includes Bad 25 which will no be doubt be handled badly as well.

 

[8701girl]

hypothetical situation:
it's 2014. sony and the estate announces a new michael jackson CD to be released with never-before-heard tracks. How do you feel?

Ok, so now the CD comes out. track 2 is soldier boy. track 8 is black widow. How do you feel?
.

I would be very wary

 

[Arklove]

Of course I look forward to hearing Michael's unreleased music...But with the people who have his music and legacy in the palm of their hands, I don't trust it...As of now, the 'Michael' album is collecting dust on my shelf. It's really too bad that a legend like Michael Jackson is treated with such disdain and carelessness.

 

[azsummergirl]

I will never buy any cd released by Sony and the Estate again. I used to buy several copies of every MJ album but now I just don't want to. That's the place they've put me and many other fans in. Maybe if they treated the opinions of fans with a little respect then I might think about it. But I know how you feel. I dread the next release. As far as I'm concerned, after the atrocity of "Michael" they needn't bother. And that includes Bad 25 which will no be doubt be handled badly as well.

i know. i said after "Michael" i'd never purchase a michael jackson release again BUT . . . i will have to purchase the bad tour blu-ray if it gets released. my principles go out the window when it comes to bad tour in high quality. such a hypocrite, what can i say?

Random OT question: where the heck did the chat feature go? I haven't been able to find it since MJJC switched to the BAD theme. am i missing something?

 

[Arklove]

BUT . . . i will have to purchase the bad tour blu-ray if it gets released. my principles go out the window when it comes to bad tour in high quality.

Life. Complete

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

edit..

lol oke:

Yes, at first I was just like you. Then, as I've explained in numerous posts before, I realized it couldn't be an impersonator, that the differences were easily explainable in some other way, and that my initial, emotional, first-impression reaction was wrong.

Whereas you guys have just stuck to your first impressions.

The fact I went through this whole process myself makes my current contributions to this debate MORE, not less, relevant. Because it shows, when it comes to me at least, that it's not about taking a side and sticking to it, but about really trying to ascertain the truth of the matter.

Answer this very simple question:

Have you ever in your life had the same first impression when listening to MJ for the first time and not recognize him in 30% on an album (3 songs out of 10)?

For example did you have the same experience and doubts when some songs were leaked such as:

Escape
Slave To The Rhythm
12 O'Clock
Blue Gangsta

or some snippets like:

-A Place Without No Name
-Can't Get Your Weight Off Of Me

or some appearances as in:

-We Be Ballin' You

or some backgrounds vocals as in:

-All I do (with Stevie Wonder)
-Goin' Back to Alabama (with Kenny Rogers)

if you haven't heard these latter, here you are:

[youtube]QCOcV-NCrYc[/youtube]

[youtube]cZ9Pa41KJjM[/youtube]

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

The Cascio's sudden appearance of 12 songs:

SONY's offices and negotiators for the songs:

The Estate's report:

The general public (after hearing the second streaming of Breaking News and after reading the Estate's report):

A doubter (as seen by some believers):

p.s. Hello NASTY, how are you today?

 

[Pentum]

DAH, DAH!!!!!!..........DAH!!!!!.......Dah......DAH, DAHEEEEEEEEEEeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEeEEEEEEEEEEEEeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwDAHHH!!!!

 

[kreen]

lol oke:



Answer this very simple question:

Have you ever in your life had the same first impression when listening to MJ for the first time and not recognize him in 30% on an album (3 songs out of 10)?

Of course not, but that's because the Cascio songs were created and released in a context that was totally different from any other MJ previous release. The « surprise » of those songs appearing out of the blue. The Jacksons’ accusation that the songs were fake. The « Frankenstein » nature of many of the songs. And to top it all off, the release of BN – a strange track by any definition -- as the first single.

If KYHU had been the first single, I would not have doubted for a second, and while many here will deny it, I am 100 % sure that the first few messages on this board upon first hearing this song would have been « OMG this song is so beautiful » and « MJ sounds so sweet I can’t believe it ».

By the same token, if the first leaked Cascio song had been “Shout” or “Beautiful Girl”, those would have been considered fake by people around here.

In fact, it will be interesting when the next album of MJ unreleased tracks is released, because, if you guys believe that the Estate now knows that 3 tracks were fake, but didn’t do anything about it, it means that they might do the same thing again next time. So you’ll always have this doubt, not just on the Cascio tracks but on ANY track that is not known from before, that the singer might be a fake.

Say the next album has a cover of, say, Prince’s “When Doves Cry”, and the voice sounds like the voice on “Shout”, or “Beautiful Girl”, or KYHU”. And all they say is, yeah, MJ recorded this for fun around 2005 in Neverland. How will you guys accept this song’s authenticity? You’ll be tortured over the possibility it’s fake. While I’ll be bopping my head to the sweet sounds of MJ. From now on, you’ll always be stuck in a hell of your own making when it comes to enjoying any future release.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Of course not,

Which is a normal situation. You hear MJ, you know it's him.

but that's because the Cascio songs were created and released in a context that was totally different from any other MJ previous release. The « surprise » of those songs appearing out of the blue. The Jacksons’ accusation that the songs were fake. The « Frankenstein » nature of many of the songs. And to top it all off, the release of BN – a strange track by any definition -- as the first single.

If KYHU had been the first single, I would not have doubted for a second, and while many here will deny it, I am 100 % sure that the first few messages on this board upon first hearing this song would have been « OMG this song is so beautiful » and « MJ sounds so sweet I can’t believe it ».

By the same token, if the first leaked Cascio song had been “Shout” or “Beautiful Girl”, those would have been considered fake by people around here.

In fact, it will be interesting when the next album of MJ unreleased tracks is released, because, if you guys believe that the Estate now knows that 3 tracks were fake, but didn’t do anything about it, it means that they might do the same thing again next time. So you’ll always have this doubt, not just on the Cascio tracks but on ANY track that is not known from before, that the singer might be a fake.

Say the next album has a cover of, say, Prince’s “When Doves Cry”, and the voice sounds like the voice on “Shout”, or “Beautiful Girl”, or KYHU”. And all they say is, yeah, MJ recorded this for fun around 2005 in Neverland. How will you guys accept this song’s authenticity? You’ll be tortured over the possibility it’s fake. While I’ll be bopping my head to the sweet sounds of MJ. From now on, you’ll always be stuck in a hell of your own making when it comes to enjoying any future release.

Your "because" is an attempt to find the excuse to why the voice is different. No matter the theory, the result is the same: the voice is different.

 

[OnirMJ]

I will never buy any cd released by Sony and the Estate again. I used to buy several copies of every MJ album but now I just don't want to. That's the place they've put me and many other fans in. Maybe if they treated the opinions of fans with a little respect then I might think about it. But I know how you feel. I dread the next release. As far as I'm concerned, after the atrocity of "Michael" they needn't bother. And that includes Bad 25 which will no be doubt be handled badly as well.

That way you will only hurt Michael Jackson, not Sony. I will not buy anything with Cascio name on it. But I'll buy everything else that is genuine and real, including remixes.