Michael - The Great Album Debate

[azsummergirl]

i shudder to think what will happen on the next cd, and how many more people will buy into it. I mean, they didn't even do a good job with the impersonator this time, seriously. it's really half-assed, let's be real. it still blows my mind that any fan still even has a question about this but ok.

next time when they get someone who actually remembers to clap once in a while . . . fuhgedda about it.

 

[love is magical]

Ummm...

So calling the Cascio's liars and claiming that they hired a vocalist to fill in the blanks is not attacking Eddie ?

I don't see people attacking Neff U since he created the music for Best Of Joy since when he got the song it was just an a cappella.

I don't see Akon being attacked for adding vocals and editing the song, don't you want it the way MJ left it ?

I don't see people attacking John McClain for adding the vocals from the Dangerous tour to Behind The Mask

But when we see the Cascio tracks it is wrong that they added ad-libs to fill the blanks and complete the song posthumously.

Don't you agree that James Porte is part of the lead vocals? So, there is some truth to the statement that "a vocalist is hired to fill in the blank."

Why we want to attack Neff-U or Akon? For what? For keeping Michael's vocals in tact?

Oh... If you have followed this thread from page one, you would have seen that John McClain got much criticism.

If you don't see anything wrong with th Cascio tracks, good for you. But, don't call people who have problems with the distorted vocals haters.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

You just refuse to listen to anyone who don't share your passion in the Cascio tracks. You know what? I don't mind being called a doubter because I do have doubt. I don't know what to believe. But, that doesn't make me a hater.

You keep saying Michael's legacy needs posthumous release and "the best is yet to come". Really? So, studio trickery can not only replace Michael, but also create the best work that bears the name Michael Jackson? Sometimes, I really wonder why posthumous release means so much to you. What's wrong with the legacy catalog?

And, dont worry about Michael's music going down. Billie Jean is still Billie Jean. This debate has nothing to do with Michael's classics. Michael's music will last till eternity. It doesn't depend on you or me or John Branca. Michael's music speaks for itself.

Now, get over it. Michael is dead. Nobody will be able to give you his best, but himself.

You need to get over the Cascio tracks and find proof or something creditable and take the Cascio's, Epic Records, Sony to court.


Now I know his legacy is already as big as it can get but posthumous releases are important too there are so many great songs that Michael Jackson recorded but did not have enough time to release.




Impersonator ?
Any videos, or pictures of him recording the tracks ?

 

[love is magical]

You need to get over the Cascio tracks and find proof or something creditable and take the Cascio's, Epic Records, Sony to court.


Now I know his legacy is already as big as it can get but posthumous releases are important too there are so many great songs that Michael Jackson recorded but did not have enough time to release.




Impersonator ?
Any videos, or pictures of him recording the tracks ?

You are just as obsessed about the Cascio tracks as the doubters. Or else, you will not keep comming back.

Fine. Posthumous album is very important. It really is. It is more important than Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. Happy now?

By the way, you don't need to get over anything. My bad. I'm sure some soul-less computer program can not only replace Michael, it will also provide us the best Michael Jackon tracks. Wow... I'm excited. The best is yet to come!

Time to party. Hooray!!

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

You are just as obsessed about the Cascio tracks as the doubters. Or else, you will not keep comming back.

Fine. Posthumous album is very important. It really is. It is more important than Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. Happy now?

By the way, you don't need to get over anything. My bad. I'm sure some soul-less computer program can not only replace Michael, it will also provide us the best Michael Jackon tracks. Wow... I'm excited. The best is yet to come!

Time to party. Hooray!!

WOW!

Really no need to be a smart ass but I was just saying that posthumous albums are important to the legacy I did NOT say it was the most important.

To me "Michael" will always be a collection not a studio album like Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On The Dance Floor, Invincible, "Michael" is just a collection of unreleased material but it's the first to release since Invincible with new music so to me it's important.

I love MJ's music ever since I was 3 or 4 I was listening to MJ and I only listen to MJ I cannot see myself listening to Souja Boy or any of those artists I like real music and the only artist I know can deliver that is MJ.

I love to hear what MJ was working on over the years I mean from 01 - 09 there was a lot of music recorded and I love listening to it and to me I do not hear a difference on the Cascio tracks as you guys I mean I know you all say that it does not sound like him but to me I cannot hear the difference and I cannot imagine his friends back stabbing him for just 3 songs that could easily be replaced with "Do You Know Where Your Children Are", "Blue Gangsta", "Do You Love Me" and a company risk it's reputation.

 

[Rudolf]

Impersonator ?
Any videos, or pictures of him recording the tracks ?

Yet where is proof that it was Michael? There isn't apart from some pic of Michael in Cascio house and the word of Sony and Cascios. And some secret ''analysis'' which just claimed it is Michael. There is no real proof. Please show us demos, studio sessions videos, even show us that damn analysis, and I think most of us would agree it is Michael then. Yet there is no real proof. But doubters want to be proven wrong.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

WOW!

Really no need to be a smart ass but I was just saying that posthumous albums are important to the legacy I did NOT say it was the most important.

To me "Michael" will always be a collection not a studio album like Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On The Dance Floor, Invincible, "Michael" is just a collection of unreleased material but it's the first to release since Invincible with new music so to me it's important.

I love MJ's music ever since I was 3 or 4 I was listening to MJ and I only listen to MJ I cannot see myself listening to Souja Boy or any of those artists I like real music and the only artist I know can deliver that is MJ.

I love to hear what MJ was working on over the years I mean from 01 - 09 there was a lot of music recorded and I love listening to it and to me I do not hear a difference on the Cascio tracks as you guys I mean I know you all say that it does not sound like him but to me I cannot hear the difference and I cannot imagine his friends back stabbing him for just 3 songs that could easily be replaced with "Do You Know Where Your Children Are", "Blue Gangsta", "Do You Love Me" and a company risk it's reputation.

If you had lived and witnessed Michal Jackson mania as for the 80s, you'd understand that the Cascio songs are shitty tracks for someone like THE Michael Jackson and that it doesn't do him ANY favor in releasing them in the state they're released. If they want to keep on with MJ's legacy, they should not touch a little bit what the master has crafted, but release them the way he left it.

But you come inhere with your judgments of someone who has never known the excitment before "Thriller", "Bad", "Dangerous",... were released and you give credit to your excitment before "Michael" was released erecting the Cascio songs such as "Monster" to the level that beyond any doubt is far, far, far away from reaching Michael's ankle of legacy.

There is no single proof Michael ever did anything for those songs, and if Michael was really happy about them he'd at least include your "Monster" song on This Is It concert as a new song or something. Instead he planned to sing other songs (none of which being a Cascio song). Those songs simply seem to be nonexistent in Michael's life.

Do you actually realize the meaning of NO SINGLE trace? Not a scratch on a sheet of paper, not a scratch of music sheets, not a phone call about the songs, not a video, not a worktape, not a single alternative take, nothing, complete VOID. That's what the Estate has provided to the fans as a proof:

VOID!

Yeah, excuse my doubts about the authenticity. To me official seal doesn't mean "the truth" seal.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

If you had lived and witnessed Michal Jackson mania as for the 80s, you'd understand that the Cascio songs are shitty tracks for someone like THE Michael Jackson and that it doesn't do him ANY favor in releasing them in the state they're released. If they want to keep on with MJ's legacy, they should not touch a little bit what the master has crafted, but release them the way he left it.

But you come inhere with your judgments of someone who has never known the excitment before "Thriller", "Bad", "Dangerous",... were released and you give credit to your excitment before "Michael" was released erecting the Cascio songs such as "Monster" to the level that beyond any doubt is far, far, far away from reaching Michael's ankle of legacy.

There is no single proof Michael ever did anything for those songs, and if Michael was really happy about them he'd at least include your "Monster" song on This Is It concert as a new song or something. Instead he planned to sing other songs (none of which being a Cascio song). Those songs simply seem to be nonexistent in Michael's life.

Do you actually realize the meaning of NO SINGLE trace? Not a scratch on a sheet of paper, not a scratch of music sheets, not a phone call about the songs, not a video, not a worktape, not a single alternative take, nothing, complete VOID. That's what the Estate has provided to the fans as a proof:

VOID!

Yeah, excuse my doubts about the authenticity. To me official seal doesn't mean "the truth" seal.

Okay I understand but we have to be a little real here Sony and the Estate are not going to release them as they are they will have to think financially too.

Now for the evidence if they don't provide it then we should get our own tests conducted.


Now my plans for future Cascio tracks is release the CD with the songs but in the booklet include a voucher to download the demos or extras so they will not have to put a second CD so it saves them $$$ and gives us what we want.

 

[teli-mj]

And you know this how ?

There is no proof that there is no proof


Like I said many times there might be videos, pictures, etc but Eddie might not want to release it because it may show Michael is a way that he would not want to be seen or SONY/Estate now owns it since they bought the right to the songs and the contract said that they get all material connected to these songs.






@teli-mj FYI I put the Billboard sales because it was just recently posted on the Billboard and I didn't want to double post.


Ad-libs been used for ages so I see nothing wrong with it.

They are releasing music for Michael to continue his legacy.


.

Yes, i used to think that also ie : that Mike's estate is trying to continue MJ's legacy but when i bought the "Michael" album i discovered otherwise. Tell me, how exactly are they trying to continue MJ's legacy when everybody are laughing at the Michael album and saying that even his estate doesn't respect him as an artist when releasing songs like the Cascio one? I had debates with people saying this thing to me. It's not pretty to hear it for the man that you admire, trust me.

And these tracks were demos but then again where are they going to get new vocals from ?

This i didn't get. Because i have misinterpret people's words in the past, what do you exactly mean by this?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Okay I understand but we have to be a little real here Sony and the Estate are not going to release them as they are they will have to think financially too.

Now for the evidence if they don't provide it then we should get our own tests conducted.


Now my plans for future Cascio tracks is release the CD with the songs but in the booklet include a voucher to download the demos or extras so they will not have to put a second CD so it saves them $$$ and gives us what we want.

You know, it doesn't take much to stream the demos or a worktape or make an official video on Youtube. They could have done it without paying a cent for it.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Yes, i used to think that also ie : that Mike's estate is trying to continue MJ's legacy but when i bought the "Michael" album i discovered otherwise. Tell me, how exactly are they trying to continue MJ's legacy when everybody are laughing at the Michael album and saying that even his estate doesn't respect him as an artist when releasing songs like the Cascio one? I had debates with people saying this thing to me. It's not pretty to hear it for the man that you admire, trust me.



This i didn't get. Because i have misinterpret people's words in the past, what do you exactly mean by this?

I meant he's gone there's no way to get new vocals so ad-libs would be the answer.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I meant he's gone there's no way to get new vocals so ad-libs would be the answer.

No one is criticizing the ad-libs Adki.

The adlibs are on Another Day, Behind the Mask, the beatbox is on Hollywood Tonight,...etc. Everyone understands the reasons why they had to be added, because MJ's not here.

But copy-pasting words in the middle of the sentences in order to fabricate a new sentence??? As far as I am concerned: NO WAY! And no excuse!

If Michael didn't record the sentence, you just don't allow anyone to fabricate them, to autotune them and melodye them in order to mask the forgery. And above all, even if such practice is done, then you give due credit to where it belongs to -Invincible album and outtakes.

 

[dam2040]

Jason Malachi - Monster (2012 Album Tracklist)
1.Monster
2.Keep Your Head Up
3.Breaking News
4.Soldier Boy
5.Black Widow
6.Burn Tonight
7.Ready 2 Win
8.Water
(More coming soon)

WHO'S EXCITED?!?!?! I AM!!!

 

[Korgnex]

The adlibs are on Another Day [...] Everyone understands the reasons why they had to be added, because MJ's not here.

There aren't any added vocals on "Another Day". It's a wrong rumour from fans who claimed they would have added ad-libs from "2 Bad", "Jam" or "We've Had Enough".

 

[BottleOfSmoke]

And you know this how ?

There is no proof that there is no proof

Like I said many times there might be videos, pictures, etc but Eddie might not want to release it because it may show Michael is a way that he would not want to be seen or SONY/Estate now owns it since they bought the right to the songs and the contract said that they get all material connected to these songs.

Michael wouldn't want to be seen that way but he would definitely want to be heard that way and not be recognized, wow how kind and thoughtful of Mr Cascio to take care of "his friend" this way :lol:

Seriously, since all this bullshit started, have you guys noticed how many elements, evidence and analyses were presented by the doubters to defend their point of view? And now tell me how many elements were brought to our attention by the other part of fans as well as $ony and/or e$tate? Absolutely NOTHING! Just WORDS! Except "you can hear... uh... the authenticity in his voice" :lol: and a little video footage of an empty shower cabin we've seen nothing to this day: no video, no audio, no photo... Nada!
I think that speaks for itself

They are releasing music for Michael to continue his legacy.

I'm afraid they got all wrong, neither us nor Michael's legacy needs music to be released for Michael, but of Michael (himself.) That's what we're trying to talk about here.

Since when does wanting respect and dignity for Mike's art and music make us Cascio haters? Do not throw that word around here as if it applies...It doesn't...
Where's the attack? Where's the hate?
All I see are fans voicing their displeasure and extreme disappointment for the way Michael's music has been treated as if he's easily replaced....

Was going to say the same. It's not a "Cascio" issue. If same music came from someone else (Will i am, Lenny Kravitz, Akon, Neff U, 3T, Jackson family and so on and so on) we would be defending our position the same way we do right now

and all of us after hearing Breaking News

:lmao:

 

[Rudolf]

^ Hehe, this

 

[love is magical]

^^Monkey Business going on. :lmao:

 

[love is magical]

WOW!

Really no need to be a smart ass but I was just saying that posthumous albums are important to the legacy I did NOT say it was the most important.

To me "Michael" will always be a collection not a studio album like Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory, Blood On The Dance Floor, Invincible, "Michael" is just a collection of unreleased material but it's the first to release since Invincible with new music so to me it's important.

I love MJ's music ever since I was 3 or 4 I was listening to MJ and I only listen to MJ I cannot see myself listening to Souja Boy or any of those artists I like real music and the only artist I know can deliver that is MJ.

I love to hear what MJ was working on over the years I mean from 01 - 09 there was a lot of music recorded and I love listening to it and to me I do not hear a difference on the Cascio tracks as you guys I mean I know you all say that it does not sound like him but to me I cannot hear the difference and I cannot imagine his friends back stabbing him for just 3 songs that could easily be replaced with "Do You Know Where Your Children Are", "Blue Gangsta", "Do You Love Me" and a company risk it's reputation.

Different people hear different things. It's okay that you don't hear any difference. But, that doesn't mean the people who do are simply influenced by propaganda and have hatred against Eddie. We heard distorted weak vocals. That's why we demanded explanation. Unfortunately, Eddie chose to shut down any communications. You know this whole debate won't gain any traction shall there be a piece of concrete info being released.

If you had lived and witnessed Michal Jackson mania as for the 80s, you'd understand that the Cascio songs are shitty tracks for someone like THE Michael Jackson and that it doesn't do him ANY favor in releasing them in the state they're released. If they want to keep on with MJ's legacy, they should not touch a little bit what the master has crafted, but release them the way he left it.

But you come inhere with your judgments of someone who has never known the excitment before "Thriller", "Bad", "Dangerous",... were released and you give credit to your excitment before "Michael" was released erecting the Cascio songs such as "Monster" to the level that beyond any doubt is far, far, far away from reaching Michael's ankle of legacy.

There is no single proof Michael ever did anything for those songs, and if Michael was really happy about them he'd at least include your "Monster" song on This Is It concert as a new song or something. Instead he planned to sing other songs (none of which being a Cascio song). Those songs simply seem to be nonexistent in Michael's life.

Do you actually realize the meaning of NO SINGLE trace? Not a scratch on a sheet of paper, not a scratch of music sheets, not a phone call about the songs, not a video, not a worktape, not a single alternative take, nothing, complete VOID. That's what the Estate has provided to the fans as a proof:

VOID!

Yeah, excuse my doubts about the authenticity. To me official seal doesn't mean "the truth" seal.

After reading this, ADKI, I'm wondering whether your excitement about the Michael CD is partly because the Michael release was the first Michael Jackson release you fully witnessed. You were too young when Invincible was released.

Unfortunately for your generation, you'll never get the chance to witness Michaelmania. For me, the release of Dangerous and HIStory were the most exciting musical events. No new release, from Michael or other artist, can ever replicate the scale and impact.

 

[StellaJackson]

Someone just played me a comparison of Fall In Love with Room 2 Breathe. It is absolutely damning beyond belief. There is no denying whatsoever that it is the same voice on both.

 

[azsummergirl]

Someone just played me a comparison of Fall In Love with Room 2 Breathe. It is absolutely damning beyond belief. There is no denying whatsoever that it is the same voice on both.

too bad u cant post it. Tho apparently to some people the comparisons prove nothing. What a joke. Wtf do u think vocal analysis is? U know, the kind Sony supposedly did? Its comparison. Analysis is comparison. Believers blindly trust analysis they've never seen (and that likely doesn't exist) and dismiss all of the actual comparisons and analyses available to them. It makes no sense.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

There aren't any added vocals on "Another Day". It's a wrong rumour from fans who claimed they would have added ad-libs from "2 Bad", "Jam" or "We've Had Enough".

I wasn't thinking of other songs, I was thinking of "We've had enough" plausible outtake that has been used in Another Day ad-libs. The line is exactly the same as in "We've had enough" with slightly different singing.

Now if you say that there is no such ad-lib, then could you elaborate your answer and say how you know it's been a rumour and not an actual outtake from one of the recording sessions during Invincible?

Anyway, this being said, ad-libs or not, it's never ben an issue, but copy-pastes within sentences (only on Cascio songs and on non other). Another striking example of this is the word "victim" in Soldier Boy.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

I like the Michael Album, though the Cascio tracks leave me puzzled and confuzzed.

 

[ivy]

too bad u cant post it. Tho apparently to some people the comparisons prove nothing. What a joke. Wtf do u think vocal analysis is? U know, the kind Sony supposedly did? Its comparison. Analysis is comparison. Believers blindly trust analysis they've never seen (and that likely doesn't exist) and dismiss all of the actual comparisons and analyses available to them. It makes no sense.

analysis is comparison yes, but the analysis Sony and Estate did is a lot more than just cutting and pasting 2 soundbites and then making a judgement call with your ears. It includes the use of computer software, waveform analysis, probability rates, as well as error rates. So it makes all the sense in the world to trust such detailed analysis that follow established principles of music, voice identification, mathematics and statistics rather than cut-paste and someone declaring it "damning evidence".

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

analysis is comparison yes, but the analysis Sony and Estate did is a lot more than just cutting and pasting 2 soundbites and then making a judgement call with your ears. It includes the use of computer software, waveform analysis, probability rates, as well as error rates. So it makes all the sense in the world to trust such detailed analysis that follow established principles of music, voice identification, mathematics and statistics rather than cut-paste and someone declaring it "damning evidence".

Yup, but that's not the real issue.

The issue is that we don't know what was analysed. And also, we haven't seen any trace of it either. So honestly, so far we have nothing else but their word. I just don't understand why they keep the analysis away from the public eye. What is so compromising about it to keep it hidden. Is it such a big deal to make those analyses officially published on their site? If they take into account fans' opinions as they claimed in their report, why don't they show the fans those analyses, so who knows, maybe among fans some people could also help, or at least ask some questions.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

If they HAD evidence they would have shown it. why wait to show it?

 

[azsummergirl]

analysis is comparison yes, but the analysis Sony and Estate did is a lot more than just cutting and pasting 2 soundbites and then making a judgement call with your ears. It includes the use of computer software, waveform analysis, probability rates, as well as error rates. So it makes all the sense in the world to trust such detailed analysis that follow established principles of music, voice identification, mathematics and statistics rather than cut-paste and someone declaring it "damning evidence".

the fans have used computer software and waveform analysis too. And unlike the analysis sony supposedly did, i have SEEN the waveform analysis done by the fans. i.e. it actually exists.

to think that just b/c someone does something for a living must make them an expert is just not true. sometimes it is. but a lot of times it's not. sometimes the perception of authority is just an idea, not reality. how many of us have had a boss that does less work than you do and know less about your business? I know i have. i have no reason to believe that their analysis is any more valid than our comparisons.

if this analysis existed, they would show it. There's no reason not to and 1679 (so far) reasons to show it.

 

[ivy]

the fans have used computer software and waveform analysis too. And unlike the analysis sony supposedly did, i have SEEN the waveform analysis done by the fans. i.e. it actually exists.

are you talking about Geso on max jax? I've seen it too. It was limited words. It was similar but not the same but didn't have any of the mathematical or statistical principles I'm talking about.

to think that just b/c someone does something for a living must make them an expert is just not true. sometimes it is. but a lot of times it's not.

I think Conrad Murray would agree with this statement and Dr. Shafer won't, I personally won't even dignify it with a response because it's an insult to people who give their life to education, research and so on to become an expert in their field.

 

[azsummergirl]

haha ok don't dignify it with a response. Look I can play too. I'm not even going to dignify your belief in the cascio tracks with a response because it's an insult to michael's years of hard work to become an expert in his field

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Different people hear different things. It's okay that you don't hear any difference. But, that doesn't mean the people who do are simply influenced by propaganda and have hatred against Eddie. We heard distorted weak vocals. That's why we demanded explanation. Unfortunately, Eddie chose to shut down any communications. You know this whole debate won't gain any traction shall there be a piece of concrete info being released.




After reading this, ADKI, I'm wondering whether your excitement about the Michael CD is partly because the Michael release was the first Michael Jackson release you fully witnessed. You were too young when Invincible was released.

Unfortunately for your generation, you'll never get the chance to witness Michaelmania. For me, the release of Dangerous and HIStory were the most exciting musical events. No new release, from Michael or other artist, can ever replicate the scale and impact.

I remember going to the store with my mom after school when Invincible released and getting my blue copy and listening to it for the next months non stop and I mean non stop I went to school came back I watched Pokemon on low volume and listen to Invincible.

 

[ivy]

haha ok don't dignify it with a response. Look I can play too. I'm not even going to dignify your belief in the cascio tracks with a response because it's an insult to michael's years of hard work to become an expert in his field

it's a sad thing when people's only point is through belittling people and professionals. but hey I guess it's all fair in this Cascio obsession.