Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Chamife]

He didn't change his accent or his dialect. It's your imagination and your will to believe that's playing tricks on you, as well as the presence of James Porte on vocals.

Like I've pointed out before, MJ sings the word "lost" as if it was pronounced "La-auh-st" in "You are my life". Doesn't mean the song was sung by an English impersonator.

As for why the vocals are weaker on the Cascio songs than on other songs, well actually they aren't always. KYHU is a nice performance; indeed, if that song had been the first one leaked, the whole controversy would have never happened. But yeah, on some other songs, MJ is obviously not trying hard -- which makes perfect sense, as these were incomplete vocals that were never meant to be released. And when some people say, well I've heard MJ ad-lib songs in videos and he always sounds incredible, again that's just beause that's what you choose to believe. I personally think his vocal on "Beautiful Girl", for example, is awful : nasal, stuffed-up, like he has a cold.


I'll add "All I need" to the list of Cascio songs with nice MJ vocals.

You know, from the first moment I heard MJ recorded those songs with Eddie while he was living with them in 2007, I thought, "he's doing this because he's broke and has no place to stay, so basically he's paying them for taking care of his family by helping Eddie with his music". That would explain MJ's lack of interest for the songs either while they were recorded or after. He loved the Cascios, but I'm not sure he was humble enough to include an unknown 19-year-old kid's songs on his next album.

I can't remember anyone here saying that the vocals sound weak...I think they are strong vocals. (When I say strong, I'm not talking about the quality of them, but about if they're powerful). They are powerful, IMO.

 

[SoCav]

I can't remember anyone here saying that the vocals sound weak...I think they are strong vocals. (When I say strong, I'm not talking about the quality of them, but about if they're powerful). They are powerful, IMO.

To me they definitely sound weak. Not in the sense that the person singing them is doing a half-arsed job (which for some people explains how it can sound off but still be Michael). On the contrary, it sounds like the singer is trying his hardest. The voice singing them just sounds very weak to me. And lifeless, insincere and fake, as if someone is putting on a voice rather than singing with their natural voice. All qualities I associate with one Jason Malachi.

 

[kreen]

Are you joking? It's our imagination that the singer pronounces the word waiting = wai'in, JUST like Jason does?

Coincidence, imagination and self-deception: the unholy trinity on which all conspiracy theories rest.

Let me put it to you this way: pretend for just a minute that you know Jason Malachi CAN'T POSSIBLY be singing on the Cascio tracks, because he denies it, has not in any way received any payment from the sale of the tracks, and has not been betrayed/sued by any of the numerous people who would have to know about his taking part in the greatest hoax in the history of recorded music.

Ok, let’s say you know this. Can you come up with other explanations as to why MJ might say the word « waiting » in a way that slightly resembles the way another singer sings the same word in another song? Are there other explanations for this detail aside from the theory that the greatest hoax in the history of the 20th century has been pulled off under our noses?

I’ll give you another example : I just saw a man on the street that I could swear was my father : same weight, same height, same silly winter hat, same brown winter coat, walked the same, looked the same, and then he turned the corner and I couldn’t see him. Now I know my father is currently in his house 500 km from here. So despite my impression that I just saw my father, and despite my hope that it could indeed be my father, because it would mean he’s surprising me with a nice visit, I have to come up with some other explanation as to why a man who looks like my father currently wanders the streets.

 

[Chamife]

To me they definitely sound weak. Not in the sense that the person singing them is doing a half-arsed job (which for some people explains how it can sound off but still be Michael). On the contrary, it sounds like the singer is trying his hardest. The voice singing them just sounds very weak (and lifeless and fake, as if someone is putting on a voice rather than singing with their natural voice) to me. All qualities I associate with one Jason Malachi.

Yes, that's what I meant, but I'm not sure what kind of weak Kreen means.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Coincidence, imagination and self-deception: the unholy trinity on which all conspiracy theories rest.

Let me put it to you this way: pretend for just a minute that you know Jason Malachi CAN'T POSSIBLY be singing on the Cascio tracks, because he denies it, has not in any way received any payment from the sale of the tracks, and has not been betrayed/sued by any of the numerous people who would have to know about his taking part in the greatest hoax in the history of recorded music.

Ok, let’s say you know this. Can you come up with other explanations as to why MJ might say the word « waiting » in a way that slightly resembles the way another singer sings the same word in another song? Are there other explanations for this detail aside from the theory that the greatest hoax in the history of the 20th century has been pulled off under our noses?

I’ll give you another example : I just saw a man on the street that I could swear was my father : same weight, same height, same silly winter hat, same brown winter coat, walked the same, looked the same, and then he turned the corner and I couldn’t see him. Now I know my father is currently in his house 500 km from here. So despite my impression that I just saw my father, and despite my hope that it could indeed be my father, because it would mean he’s surprising me with a nice visit, I have to come up with some other explanation as to why a man who looks like my father currently wanders the streets.

Have you seen one "father" or 12 "fathers"? Because it's not in one song that we hear the soundalike with such a pronunciation but in 12, all coming from the same source.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Yes, that's what I meant, but I'm not sure what kind of weak Kreen means.

I agree with SoCav, the vocals are definitely weak. Michael has a powerful voice. The Cascio singer sings as if he was trying to fight to hit the right notes, so he sounds much more careful and weaker.

 

[SoCav]

Edit; see next post (apologies for the mistake)

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Come on, don't pretend as if people claim the pronunciation of the word 'waiting' is the only thing that makes them think it is not Michael.

Imagine the guy walking down the street who has the same height, weight and hair color as your father. As you see him appear in the distance, you might mistake him for your father for a second. But as you near each other, you realize it is not your father at all: the fact that the guy happens to shares some characteristics with your old man, does not mean it is him. You politely nod to the man as you walk past each other, grinning because of your initial confusion.Then suddenly, the guy exclaims "son!" (in a Maryland accent ) and gives you a hug. Surprised and disturbed, you tell him you are not his son, that he must have made a mistake.

Bahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent! Looooooooooooool!!!!! :lmao: :rofl:

I imagine the whole thing, you know it's not your father and he himself claims he is (with a foreign accent) looooooooooool:

"I am your fa'er...Luke" loooooooooool

 

[SoCav]

Come on, don't pretend as if people claim the pronunciation of the word 'waiting' is the only thing that makes them think it is not Michael.

Imagine the guy walking down the street who has the same height, weight and hair color as your father. As you see him appear in the distance, you might mistake him for your father for a second. But as you near each other, you realize it is not your father at all: the fact that the guy happens to shares some characteristics with your old man, does not mean it is him. You politely nod to the man as you walk past each other, grinning because of your initial confusion.Then suddenly, the guy exclaims "son!" (in a Maryland accent ) and gives you a hug. Surprised and disturbed, you tell him you are not his son and that he must have made a mistake. While you are denying this, some neighbors from down your dad's street pass by. They overhear your conversation and tell you that they are certain it is your dad. They had some doubts as well, but in the end came to the conclusion that it must be him because it is most logical that a guy with that height, weight and wintercoat must be your dad. Would you believe them?

:lol:

 

[SoCav]

Bahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!! Excellent! Looooooooooooool!!!!! :lmao: :rofl: I imagine the whole thing, you know it's not your father and he himself claims he is (with a foreign accent) looooooooooool.

Sorry for the double post. I accidentally already posted this as I was typing. I thought I stopped the page from submitting it, but guess not.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Come on, don't pretend as if people claim the pronunciation of the word 'waiting' is the only thing that makes them think it is not Michael.

Imagine the guy walking down the street who has the same height, weight and hair color as your father. As you see him appear in the distance, you might mistake him for your father for a second. But as you near each other, you realize it is not your father at all: the fact that the guy happens to shares some characteristics with your old man, does not mean it is him. You politely nod to the man as you walk past each other, grinning because of your initial confusion.Then suddenly, the guy exclaims "son!" (in a Maryland accent ) and gives you a hug. Surprised and disturbed, you tell him you are not his son and that he must have made a mistake. While you are denying this, some neighbors from down your dad's street pass by. They overhear your conversation and tell you that they are certain it is your dad. They had some doubts as well, but in the end came to the conclusion that it must be him because it is most logical that a guy with that height, weight and wintercoat must be your dad. Would you believe them?

:lol:

And ex-colleagues from work come to your home and say, we compared him with the pictures of your dad. We definitely know it's him. loooooooooooool


SoCav, I didn't know you were so funny, I just LOVE your humor

 

[StellaJackson]

I suppose the snorts, vibrato and total lack of any proof whatsoever that Michael sang these songs is all in our imagination too. And what is this nonsense about Jason not receiving payment for recording these songs? Obviously he isn't going to be credited and receiving royalties. Any payment he allegedly received would have been between him and Eddie. So how on earth could you possibly know for a fact that he hasn't received any payment? And obviously he is going to deny his involvement. At least through his manager, and only when asked. Of course the songs themselves are weak vocally but that is because the singer is weak. If anything he is trying his best. They sound nothing like any Michael Jackson demo.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I suppose the snorts, vibrato and total lack of any proof whatsoever that Michael sang these songs is all in our imagination too. And what is this nonsense about Jason not receiving payment for recording these songs? Obviously he isn't going to be credited and receiving royalties. Any payment he allegedly received would have been between him and Eddie. So how on earth could you possibly know for a fact that he hasn't received any payment? And obviously he is going to deny his involvement. At least through his manager, and only when asked. Of course the songs themselves are weak vocally but that is because the singer is weak. If anything he is trying his best. They sound nothing like any Michael Jackson demo.

If he had received a payment (for presumable fraud) of course everyone would have known it... lol

 

[love is magical]

Totally agree with SoCav on the "strength" of vocals.

To me, Monster sounds weak (not half-ass weak), but weak in technique. I listened to Fall Again yesterday, since we were talking about the song. The demo sounds so raw. It's apparent that Michael was not singing full out. But, the control is there. The emotion is there. Same with Beautiful Girl. Michael wan't singing full out. But, the nuances are there.

 

[kreen]

Have you seen one "father" or 12 "fathers"? Because it's not in one song that we hear the soundalike with such a pronunciation but in 12, all coming from the same source.

Question : if those comparisons of one word here, and one word there, and all of those small, insignificant, barely-there details you and your friends are so convinced you hear are so convincing, so clear-cut, so obvious, why have they no scientific value? Why are we still having this debate?

You guys do realize that while we haven't seen the results of the professional voice comparison the Estate did, we know that that comparison did take place (as Randy Jackson admitted, as Friedman reported, and as the Estate has confirmed), and we know that, whatever the results were, they were felt to be convincing enough as to shut down any hope the Jacksons might have had to sue the Estate and the Cascios?

So basically, if it all comes down to a vocal comparison, we have to choose between one done by real professionals, with scientific value, and considered good enough to settle the issue as far as the main parties are concerned; or one done by 20-year-old fans on the Internet, with no expertise, no technique, and a bias as big as Groenland.

 

[kreen]

If he had received a payment (for presumable fraud) of course everyone would have known it... lol

If Jason Malachi received any money for his participation in this criminal activity, he hasn't started spending any of it yet, because he still lives the exact same 9-to-5 life as before. But hey, maybe he asked to get paid in brown M&M's...

We don't even have any reason to believe that Eddie Cascio has ever even met Jason Malachi. The only reason you guys thought of that particular impersonator was because he was the most well-known. If Malachi hadn't come out with his MJ-like songs a few years before, you'd be comparing the Cascio tracks with some other impersonator now, and if that guy came from South America, you'd say you've found words in the Cascio recordings where MJ sings "with a Spanish accent".

 

[Chamife]

Question : if those comparisons of one word here, and one word there, and all of those small, insignificant, barely-there details you and your friends are so convinced you hear are so convincing, so clear-cut, so obvious, why have they no scientific value? Why are we still having this debate?


You guys do realize that while we haven't seen the results of the professional voice comparison the Estate did, we know that that comparison did take place (as Randy Jackson admitted, as Friedman reported, and as the Estate has confirmed), and we know that, whatever the results were, they were felt to be convincing enough as to shut down any hope the Jacksons might have had to sue the Estate and the Cascios?

So basically, if it all comes down to a vocal comparison, we have to choose between one done by real professionals, with scientific value, and considered good enough to settle the issue as far as the main parties are concerned; or one done by 20-year-old fans on the Internet, with no expertise, no technique, and a bias as big as Groenland.

Maybe that's the main reason there isn't a reliable method of proving a certain singing voice belongs to a specific singer. I don't think a machine can do that. You have to be familiar with the style of singing. They obviously found similarities, but we don't know what similarities.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Question : if those comparisons of one word here, and one word there, and all of those small, insignificant, barely-there details you and your friends are so convinced you hear are so convincing, so clear-cut, so obvious, why have they no scientific value? Why are we still having this debate?

Don't you realize that the official report from the Estate has no scientific value whatsoever either?

You guys do realize that while we haven't seen the results of the professional voice comparison the Estate did, we know that that comparison did take place (as Randy Jackson admitted, as Friedman reported, and as the Estate has confirmed), and we know that, whatever the results were, they were felt to be convincing enough as to shut down any hope the Jacksons might have had to sue the Estate and the Cascios?

See above.

So basically, if it all comes down to a vocal comparison, we have to choose between one done by real professionals, with scientific value, and considered good enough to settle the issue as far as the main parties are concerned; or one done by 20-year-old fans on the Internet, with no expertise, no technique, and a bias as big as Groenland.

Their report has NO scientific value. Any expert will tell you that those analyses are just merely interpretations, but no strong scientific value whatsoever.

If Jason Malachi received any money for his participation in this criminal activity, he hasn't started spending any of it yet, because he still lives the exact same 9-to-5 life as before. But hey, maybe he asked to get paid in brown M&M's...

Were his spendings investigated? When? Where? By whom?

We don't even have any reason to believe that Eddie Cascio has ever even met Jason Malachi. The only reason you guys thought of that particular impersonator was because he was the most well-known. If Malachi hadn't come out with his MJ-like songs a few years before, you'd be comparing the Cascio tracks with some other impersonator now, and if that guy came from South America, you'd say you've found words in the Cascio recordings where MJ sings "with a Spanish accent".

And we don't have any reason not to believe that he met Jason or maybe another soundalike.

 

[kreen]

Don't you realize that the official report from the Estate has no scientific value whatsoever either?



See above.



Their report has NO scientific value. Any expert will tell you that those analyses are just merely interpretations, but no strong scientific value whatsoever.



Were his spendings investigated? When? Where? By whom?



And we don't have any reason not to believe that he met Jason or maybe another soundalike.

Whatever real professionals did to ascertain whether it's MJ singing has more value than your comparisons on the Internet; whether the right term is "scientific value" or not. Otherwise, they would have called you instead of pricy professionals.

As for Jason Malachi’s finances, one would notice if a local security guard suddenly became a millionaire and moved into a mansion. This sort of thing tends to draw other people’s attention in the neighbourhood and among friends and family members. Or maybe all of those people are part of the conspiracy too?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Whatever real professionals did to ascertain whether it's MJ singing has more value than your comparisons on the Internet; whether the right term is "scientific value" or not. Otherwise, they would have called you instead of pricy professionals.

As for Jason Malachi’s finances, one would notice if a local security guard suddenly became a millionaire and moved into a mansion. This sort of thing tends to draw other people’s attention in the neighbourhood and among friends and family members. Or maybe all of those people are part of the conspiracy too?

I am a professional in my own domain, and I know what I hear.

Can a professional be fooled? Yes.
Can an average or new MJ fan be fooled? Yes.
Can a forgery happen? Yes, they did not credit the copy-pastes from INVINCIBLE, at least out of respect to MJ they should have done it, but also out of respect to the listeners and fans. That's already a beginning of a forgery.

Can a two-three decade daily listening to MJ's voice fan be fooled? Much, much more challenging and much, much more difficult than any analyst that you can hire out there.

Now, you believe what the officials say, and I'll believe what my ears say. But I won't lie to myself, that's for sure.

 

[StellaJackson]

If Jason Malachi received any money for his participation in this criminal activity, he hasn't started spending any of it yet, because he still lives the exact same 9-to-5 life as before. But hey, maybe he asked to get paid in brown M&M's...

We don't even have any reason to believe that Eddie Cascio has ever even met Jason Malachi. The only reason you guys thought of that particular impersonator was because he was the most well-known. If Malachi hadn't come out with his MJ-like songs a few years before, you'd be comparing the Cascio tracks with some other impersonator now, and if that guy came from South America, you'd say you've found words in the Cascio recordings where MJ sings "with a Spanish accent".

No we didn't think of Jason Malachi. We recognised him in the songs. Contrary to what you believe, people can make their own minds up based on what they hear. We hear Jason in these songs. His vocal tics are all present and that has never been adequately explained. Justify it however you want but it is a fact that the snorts, vibrato etc are there.

Also, Jason Malachi is not a security guard and his motive was not financial. Anyone who has followed him over the years should realise exactly what his motive is.

And why keep bringing up the supposed research by experts hired by Sony? Without more details they are irrelevant. It's all very well saying that we are just believing what others say but you are doing exactly the same with the Estate's statement. At least we have actively demonstrated where we hear Jason in the songs. Still nothing has been done to explain any of that.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Is Monster your favorite song?

Yes.




@teli-mj Yes, Michael worked on these songs and just because some fans don't like it does not mean it's not fair to MJ.

 

[BottleOfSmoke]

Have you seen one "father" or 12 "fathers"? Because it's not in one song that we hear the soundalike with such a pronunciation but in 12, all coming from the same source.

Hahaha excellent question :lol:

I suppose the snorts, vibrato and total lack of any proof whatsoever that Michael sang these songs is all in our imagination too. And what is this nonsense about Jason not receiving payment for recording these songs? Obviously he isn't going to be credited and receiving royalties. Any payment he allegedly received would have been between him and Eddie. So how on earth could you possibly know for a fact that he hasn't received any payment? And obviously he is going to deny his involvement. At least through his manager, and only when asked. Of course the songs themselves are weak vocally but that is because the singer is weak. If anything he is trying his best. They sound nothing like any Michael Jackson demo.

100% agree

If Jason Malachi received any money for his participation in this criminal activity, he hasn't started spending any of it yet, because he still lives the exact same 9-to-5 life as before. But hey, maybe he asked to get paid in brown M&M's...

How do you know what he's doing right now? And are you really that naive? You really think he's such an idiot to start shaking the bills in front of our faces and prove to the whole world he's involved? Or maybe you're not naive at all, you're just working for one of the involved parties?

 

[teli-mj]

Yes.




@teli-mj Yes, Michael worked on these songs and just because some fans don't like it does not mean it's not fair to MJ.

Right.You truly believe that MJ would have been satisfied that songs like the Cascio one were released under his name. The same guy who wanted to be absolutely sure for the quality of a song before he release them, who made a record every 5 years because of it?

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Right.You truly believe that MJ would have been satisfied that songs like the Cascio one were released under his name. The same guy who wanted to be absolutely sure for the quality of a song before he release them, who made a record every 5 years because of it?

You have to understand this is a POSTHUMOUS album he is not here with us to make a decision any more now it's up to the estate and the people who worked with him for over 20 years.

No one really knows what he would have wanted on these Cascio songs maybe he wanted them maybe not.




Update: The "Michael" album sold 405,000 copies in 2010 in the U.S according to the Billboard.
http://www.billboard.com/news/music...-40-money-makers-2011-1005031152.story?page=2

 

[Arklove]

You have to understand this is a POSTHUMOUS album he is not here with us to make a decision any more now it's up to the estate and the people who worked with him for over 20 years.

No one really knows what he would have wanted on these Cascio songs maybe he wanted them maybe not.




Update: The "Michael" album sold 405,000 copies in 2010 in the U.S according to the Billboard.
http://www.billboard.com/news/music...-40-money-makers-2011-1005031152.story?page=2

Oh, great decision the Estate made...Releasing over processed music under Michael Jackson's name that a mass amount of the fan base can barely recognize his voice...I'm sure MJ would have loved that...

You realize that it's not about whether or not we 'like' the songs (it's not about US) it's about whether or not these songs uphold Michael's legacy...?

 

[Calisto]

Yes, Michael worked on these songs and just because some fans don't like it does not mean it's not fair to MJ.

There is no proof that Michael Jackson worked on these twelve songs.

 

[8701girl]

e

Oh, great decision the Estate made...Releasing over processed music under Michael Jackson's name that a mass amount of the fan base can barely recognize his voice...I'm sure MJ would have loved that...

You realize that it's not about whether or not we 'like' the songs (it's not about US) it's about whether or not these songs uphold Michael's legacy...?

Excatly its like having jason or any other impersonator doing vocals for these new songs is like undermining mj's talent & legacy. It would be so unfair for mj to do all that hard work just to have an impersonator sing his songs when that impersonator sounds nothing like mj

 

[Arklove]

Excatly its like having jason or any other impersonator doing vocals for these new songs is like undermining mj's talent & legacy. It would be so unfair for mj to do all that hard work just to have an impersonator sing his songs when that impersonator sounds nothing lik mj

Well, whether it's Michael or not, the very fact that they put these songs on the album just goes to show that the people responsible think Mike is just that easily replaced...either by some fancy studio trickery or an impostor...It's just wrong...

 

[love is magical]

@teli-mj Yes, Michael worked on these songs and just because some fans don't like it does not mean it's not fair to MJ.

You've been following this thread for a while, do you really think fans don't want future release of the Cascio tracks simply because we don't like them? Seriously? If this is the case, then I urge you to please hear us out. It's fair to say most believers would agree these tracks are created from demos that Michael never would have released. How is it fair to him?Stop thinking the Estate's idea is equivalent to Michael's idea. The Estate is an artificial entity, not continuance of Michael.