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Michael - The Great Album Debate

passy001 said:
Those are not FACTS. Those are her honest belief based on her interpretations of the recordings. They are NOT FACTS. They are speculative at best.
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They are there in the recordings. That is a fact that cannot be denied. We can debate the reasons for their existence but they are there.
 
passy001 said:
All of this stuff are mere suspicions. nothing more. nothing less. in fact if i were cynical I'd say this is sheer paranoia. in any cases, I'd go with the Estate version of the story. They have hired sound specialists to authenticate MJ vocals and went ahead with the project the moment they received confirmation from the sound specialists that those vocals are MJs. The reason I'd go with the executors is simple: they wouldn't risk their career and reputation just to deliberately con MJ fans with fake MJ songs. They have far more to lose by doing so. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this issue since they took, in my honest estimation, reasonable steps to verify the authenticity of the recordings, despite all the controversies.

Besides this issue was put to rest two years ago so i don't see the need to harp on this indefinitely. what's done is done and it's time to move on.
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The fact that you are unable to counter any of these points says it all. Those aspects are in the songs. The vibrato, accent etc etc. That is a fact. And this has been going on for 15 months, not two years. And could you please just show me the results of those audio tests? The estate nor Sony never deliberately conned fans either.
 
passy001 said:
Look they were many aspects of the recordings which i found irregular as well but not sufficient to convince me that they are fake. As I said earlier, these recordings were pretty much work in progress. Meaning that they could have been recorded when MJ was experimenting, trying a few things here and there. Given this it's quite possible in this context for the recordings to sound a bit off.
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Ok let's make it simple. Let's start with the vibrato. It is identical to the vibrato of Jason Cupeta. But you believe it is not him so clearly there must be another explanation according to you. Please tell us what that explanation is, backed up by sources and research.
 
MJ must have tried Sponge Bob vibrato on the Cascio tracks :D

[youtube]ifGpkKXWtGk&feature=related[/youtube]
 
MJ doing a Spongebob impression = less likely to happen than having an imposter on the tracks.

js. I gave Soilder Boy a listen the other day. And i heard someone else than MJ. I couldnt point my finger on it but there was a difference.
 
love is magical said:
The only thing I wish now is that both Birchey and Cartman come out of this case okay. I'm really concerned about them.

I feel so sad.
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Me too.

Some people inhere are complaining about some fans' behavior towards SONY music. Many of us protested before the release of the Michael album not to release the Cascio songs until there is strong, physical, visible, tracable proof that the songs are genuine. They did not listen to the fans. They just gave it a go thinking about the money that they'd collect.

Today there is a big split between the fans, among which some naturally have come to suspect (not accuse) either the Estate, SONY or the Cascio of fraud because of the inability to recognize MJ's voice.

The doubters have been criticized for their suspicion (without proof) towards the officials, yet many fail to see what SONY is doing to two of MJ's fans: not only suspecting but accusing them of hacking their servers without proof.

Now let's go back to 2010 and earlier.

Who sold the songs?
Who bought the songs?
Which songs have been analysed?
Which song was streamed before the release?
Were the fans happy with the streaming?
Did they take into account the fans reactions after the streaming?
Who allowed the songs to be released despite the unhappy fans after the streaming?
What visible/tangible/tracable/physical proofs have been shown by the officials?
Were fans satisfied with the Estate report?
What did they do about it?

And the irony in all this mess: who is accused and forced to defend themselves in court related to this whole mess in some way? Two poor MJ fellow fans vs. the big money making machine SONY.


How pathetic.
 
love is magical said:
The only thing I wish now is that both Birchey and Cartman come out of this case okay. I'm really concerned about them.

I feel so sad.
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I agree with that with all my heart. I have said multiple times to think about themselves. I just wish that some can see beyond the Cascio issue and realize that the life of 2 people is on the line here.

and Bumper unfortunately they kinda put themselves in that mess by accessing the servers (open or secured) to stop the Cascio lies - as his wife calls it.
 
ivy said:
I agree with that with all my heart. I have said multiple times to think about themselves. I just wish that some can see beyond the Cascio issue and realize that the life of 2 people is on the line here.

and Bumper unfortunately they kinda put themselves in that mess by accessing the servers (open or secured) to stop the Cascio lies - as his wife calls it.
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I know, but when I try to step back a little bit, it's like putting chocolate bars and candies in front of children, yet forbidding them to touch them. Birchey and Cartman being those children.
 
oh and also it's not "vs. sony music". this is a criminal case not a civil case.
 
ivy said:
I agree with that with all my heart. I have said multiple times to think about themselves. I just wish that some can see beyond the Cascio issue and realize that the life of 2 people is on the line here.

and Bumper unfortunately they kinda put themselves in that mess by accessing the servers (open or secured) to stop the Cascio lies - as his wife calls it.
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I just cannot get this out of my head. I had trouble sleeping last night. We are talking about the future of two young people that may be adversely impacted by this criminal case. Their actions, however well intended they thought, got themselves in trobule. Still, they are not some despicable criminals, like some said in the other thread. They are like us, MJ fans.

Both Birchey and Cartman are still so young. We all have done something risky or dangerous because of our curiosity or poor judgement. Some are lucky and are still okay and get a second chance. Some are still paying the price of their actions.

I'm not saying it's okay to hack and steal someone's intellectual properties. But, I don't believe they have malicious intent. If they are looking to make a profit, we would have seen all the unreleased tracks flowing around.

I agree with you that this has gone beyound the Cascio issue. I don't see how they can bring in the song authenticity as defense. We are talking about two different matters.

This is so sad.

The future of Birchey and Cartman are way more important than the Cascio songs. I sincerely wish they put things into perspective. Their future is of the upmost priority now. I know we all want the truth to come out - but not at the expense of two young lifes. I hope they consider their options and take the one that can minimize the damage.
 
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Birchey is cool, never talked to Cartman but no matter what we have more info about the Cascio tracks becuase of them. :)

I hope everything is allright aganist them...Sony is mean.
 
I dont see anythign mean about Sony filing charges.
Everyone has a right to file criminal charges against someone who breaks in or enters and steals property from them.
Just becuase it is MJ fans doesnt make it any different. I certainly care for their well being. I even understand the temptation , but I can't condone what they did. I just hope the court is merciful.
 
I'm on edge here...this is just so sad...I really feel for these guys...I really do :(

What a mess this has all become! :no:

P.S. LOL@ your siggy, BUMpy :D
 
So I guess that Cascio debate is now back in the talks again after that hacking case....oh well.
It's really stupid to think about what a mess those songs actually caused. First there were some serious fights and break-ups in the fanbase (which fortunately seemed to stop now), and now that hacking case. Sony didn't really do themselves any favor with releasing those songs. Now they're even more hated by many fans and got some real trouble going on...
 
ivy said:
oh and also it's not "vs. sony music". this is a criminal case not a civil case.
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Well ok, you know what I meant.

love is magical said:
I just cannot get this out of my head. I had trouble sleeping last night. We are talking about the future of two young people that may be adversely impacted by this criminal case. Their actions, however well intended they thought, got themselves in trobule. Still, they are not some despicable criminals, like some said in the other thread. They are like us, MJ fans.

Both Birchey and Cartman are still so young. We all have done something risky or dangerous because of our curiosity or poor judgement. Some are lucky and are still okay and get a second chance. Some are still paying the price of their actions.

I'm not saying it's okay to hack and steal someone's intellectual properties. But, I don't believe they have malicious intent. If they are looking to make a profit, we would have seen all the unreleased tracks flowing around.

I agree with you that this has gone beyound the Cascio issue. I don't see how they can bring in the song authenticity as defense. We are talking about two different matters.

This is so sad.

The future of Birchey and Cartman are way more important than the Cascio songs. I sincerely wish they put things into perspective. Their future is of the upmost priority now. I know we all want the truth to come out - but not at the expense of two young lifes. I hope they consider their options and take the one that can minimize the damage.
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Billyjeanplxiv said:
Birchey is cool, never talked to Cartman but no matter what we have more info about the Cascio tracks becuase of them. :)

I hope everything is allright aganist them...Sony is mean.
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Cartman is as cool as his nickname ;)

qbee said:
I dont see anythign mean about Sony filing charges.
Everyone has a right to file criminal charges against someone who breaks in or enters and steals property from them.
Just becuase it is MJ fans doesnt make it any different. I certainly care for their well being. I even understand the temptation , but I can't condone what they did. I just hope the court is merciful.
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If we step aback a little, from the very beginning it was all about hastily making money.

I am not blaming businessmen and people making money. But this very situation is just disgusting from the very beginning.

Eddie Cascio registers the songs a few days after MJ dies. Why? For the money that he could make out if it.
SONY buys the songs, Eddie cashes in.
SONY releases the songs, SONY cashes in.
The Estate allows the songs, and cashes in too.

...

Meanwhile, the fans were fighting not about how to cash in, but about the authenticity of the vocals of the man they love.

And look at the titles in the news papers: millions of dollars "stolen, hacked, blahblah,..." Dollars, dollars, millions, millions, money....

And two young men are facing charges of something they haven't probably even done.

I just wonder who is the real criminal in all this mess.
 
Now you have Latoya championing the doubters cause. Except I bet the the song Paris played for her WAS "Holloood Tonight"
Latoy said She said she didnt even listen to Michael Album.. so I doubt She even knows what songs are fake or not. but Paris
put this to rest and Latoya is bringing Paris back into this. I fear this will cause many peope to doubt even the real MJ songs :(
Becuase Latoya has no knowledge of the situation as usual ..
.......................................................................................

La Toya Jackson Insists It's Not King Of Pop On Michael Album



Michael Jackson's sister La Toya has thrown her weight behind allegations an impostor was hired to record tracks for the King of Pop's posthumous album, insisting some of the vocals featured are "definitely not" those of her late brother.

A report on Tmz.com last week (ends04Mar12) caused a stir among fans after editors claimed Paris Jackson had been caught telling a friend via video chat that the 2010 release, Michael, was recorded by a mimic who had been drafted in to complete her father's songs.

In a clip obtained by the website, Paris allegedly played the track Hold My Hand and when asked by her unnamed pal why the voice on the tune didn't sound like her father's, she revealed, "It's not him... the whole album isn't even him!! Go online... go on YouTube and look up Jason Malachi. That's him!! I should know if it's him (Jackson) or not because he would sing to me all the time."

The 13 year old immediately dismissed the story, taking to Twitter.com to write, "People should know by now not to believe the media when it comes down to Tmz talking about my family. Hold My Had (sic) IS my dad actually singing."

But now La Toya has questioned her niece's logic by revealing that Paris actually called her in a panic after discovering the posthumous tunes were allegedly bogus.

During a co-hosting stint on U.S. daytime show The Talk on Monday (05Mar12), La Toya Jackson recalled, "I haven't heard the complete album but I do know some of the songs that I've heard, it is definitely not his voice."

Recalling the phone conversation with Paris, she explained, "During that time I was doing (reality show) The Apprentice and Paris called me and said, 'Aunt La Toya, I want you to listen to something... You gotta listen to this, this is not daddy's voice.'

"She played it for me and I go, 'Paris, you're right, it's not.' And I kept listening, and kept listening and it was not his voice and she was so concerned about it and she said, 'We gotta put a stop to this. We must to put a stop to this. And I'm not gonna let them (record executives) get by (get away) with this.'

"This is a little girl, and this is the way she thinks because she loves her father and she didn't wanna see that out there when it wasn't her father's voice. And she went on to say this is the person who impersonates him and he's very good at it.
"
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/la-...-album_1300283
 
qbee said:
Now you have Latoya championing the doubters cause. Except I bet the the song Paris played for her WAS "Holloood Tonight"
Latoy said She said she didnt even listen to Michael Album.. so I doubt She even knows what songs are fake or not. but Paris
put this to rest and Latoya is bringing Paris back into this. I fear this will cause many peope to doubt even the real MJ songs :(
Becuase Latoya has no knowledge of the situation as usual ..
.......................................................................................

La Toya Jackson Insists It's Not King Of Pop On Michael Album



Michael Jackson's sister La Toya has thrown her weight behind allegations an impostor was hired to record tracks for the King of Pop's posthumous album, insisting some of the vocals featured are "definitely not" those of her late brother.

A report on Tmz.com last week (ends04Mar12) caused a stir among fans after editors claimed Paris Jackson had been caught telling a friend via video chat that the 2010 release, Michael, was recorded by a mimic who had been drafted in to complete her father's songs.

In a clip obtained by the website, Paris allegedly played the track Hold My Hand and when asked by her unnamed pal why the voice on the tune didn't sound like her father's, she revealed, "It's not him... the whole album isn't even him!! Go online... go on YouTube and look up Jason Malachi. That's him!! I should know if it's him (Jackson) or not because he would sing to me all the time."

The 13 year old immediately dismissed the story, taking to Twitter.com to write, "People should know by now not to believe the media when it comes down to Tmz talking about my family. Hold My Had (sic) IS my dad actually singing."

But now La Toya has questioned her niece's logic by revealing that Paris actually called her in a panic after discovering the posthumous tunes were allegedly bogus.

During a co-hosting stint on U.S. daytime show The Talk on Monday (05Mar12), La Toya Jackson recalled, "I haven't heard the complete album but I do know some of the songs that I've heard, it is definitely not his voice."

Recalling the phone conversation with Paris, she explained, "During that time I was doing (reality show) The Apprentice and Paris called me and said, 'Aunt La Toya, I want you to listen to something... You gotta listen to this, this is not daddy's voice.'

"She played it for me and I go, 'Paris, you're right, it's not.' And I kept listening, and kept listening and it was not his voice and she was so concerned about it and she said, 'We gotta put a stop to this. We must to put a stop to this. And I'm not gonna let them (record executives) get by (get away) with this.'

"This is a little girl, and this is the way she thinks because she loves her father and she didn't wanna see that out there when it wasn't her father's voice. And she went on to say this is the person who impersonates him and he's very good at it.
"
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/la-...-album_1300283
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She should be in a mental institution (no offense, just my humble opinion). She didn't even listened the album!!!
 
qbee said:
Now you have Latoya championing the doubters cause. Except I bet the the song Paris played for her WAS "Holloood Tonight"
Latoy said She said she didnt even listen to Michael Album.. so I doubt She even knows what songs are fake or not. but Paris
put this to rest and Latoya is bringing Paris back into this. I fear this will cause many peope to doubt even the real MJ songs :(
Becuase Latoya has no knowledge of the situation as usual ..
.......................................................................................

La Toya Jackson Insists It's Not King Of Pop On Michael Album



Michael Jackson's sister La Toya has thrown her weight behind allegations an impostor was hired to record tracks for the King of Pop's posthumous album, insisting some of the vocals featured are "definitely not" those of her late brother.

A report on Tmz.com last week (ends04Mar12) caused a stir among fans after editors claimed Paris Jackson had been caught telling a friend via video chat that the 2010 release, Michael, was recorded by a mimic who had been drafted in to complete her father's songs.

In a clip obtained by the website, Paris allegedly played the track Hold My Hand and when asked by her unnamed pal why the voice on the tune didn't sound like her father's, she revealed, "It's not him... the whole album isn't even him!! Go online... go on YouTube and look up Jason Malachi. That's him!! I should know if it's him (Jackson) or not because he would sing to me all the time."

The 13 year old immediately dismissed the story, taking to Twitter.com to write, "People should know by now not to believe the media when it comes down to Tmz talking about my family. Hold My Had (sic) IS my dad actually singing."

But now La Toya has questioned her niece's logic by revealing that Paris actually called her in a panic after discovering the posthumous tunes were allegedly bogus.

During a co-hosting stint on U.S. daytime show The Talk on Monday (05Mar12), La Toya Jackson recalled, "I haven't heard the complete album but I do know some of the songs that I've heard, it is definitely not his voice."

Recalling the phone conversation with Paris, she explained, "During that time I was doing (reality show) The Apprentice and Paris called me and said, 'Aunt La Toya, I want you to listen to something... You gotta listen to this, this is not daddy's voice.'

"She played it for me and I go, 'Paris, you're right, it's not.' And I kept listening, and kept listening and it was not his voice and she was so concerned about it and she said, 'We gotta put a stop to this. We must to put a stop to this. And I'm not gonna let them (record executives) get by (get away) with this.'

"This is a little girl, and this is the way she thinks because she loves her father and she didn't wanna see that out there when it wasn't her father's voice. And she went on to say this is the person who impersonates him and he's very good at it.
"
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/la-...-album_1300283
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I am really not afraid of that. I know that the fans will always recognize MJ's voice no matter what. The only problem has been nothing else thna the Cascio songs.

Now it goes both ways. If the Cascio songs are genuine we don't hear them that way, if they are not genuine, new MJ fans will be misle into thinking that it's MJ's voice.

The same goes for HT unfortunately, older fans will know it's MJ's voice, but newer fans will probably doubt it.
 
What really pisses me off is that everything BUT the Cascio songs are questioned in the media....Hold My Hand, Hollywood Tonight, WTF?

It's the Cascio songs that need attention drawn to them...
 
Arklove said:
What really pisses me off is that everything BUT the Cascio songs are questioned in the media....Hold My Hand, Hollywood Tonight, WTF?

It's the Cascio songs that need attention drawn to them...
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Exactly!
 
This isn't anything new. Latoya has stated before that she believe's the "Michael" album is fake, and so have other members of the Jackson family.

Dosen't change anything though regarding the validity of the Cascio Tracks at hand.
 
LaToya is full of it the same way she claimed she has all of MJ's unreleased songs in 2011.

She wants attention and now she's using MJ's kids for it.
 
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