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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I would love to see this case in court. And even if Sony win (which I doubt they would, because if they have any evidence they would show it by now) we would know the truth and we could move on. That way Sony would have to play the original master tapes and we could hear it, that way all speculations about computer softwares and voice editors would be over. My opinion is that if the original demos are so much different than the released & leaked versions, they would already show them to public and fans.
 
Willy said:
That TMZ article really helped the case. For example, today one of the most popular Polish sites wrote a short aricle about the album controversy, Jason Malachi, etc. More and more people are getting to know about it and sooner or later it will all fall apart. We're one step closer to the truth being revealed.
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Actually that article created confusion about Hold my Hand song. It might help the "case" but it definitely didn't help the legit songs such as HMH.

OnirMJ said:
And even if Sony win (which I doubt they would, because if they have any evidence they would show it by now) we would know the truth and we could move on.
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Actually not showing your hand is a good defense strategy. Remember how Murray's team during prelim went with Michael drank Propofol and how Dr. Shafer himself drank Propofol and did a research study but then came to court and found out that suddenly the theory became Michael took multiple pills and gave himself a fast injection? and they had to go back and check for that as well. So "surprise" is a good tool during a lawsuit. No one would show their hands beforehand.
 
shelly_webster said:
They should sue Sony, screaming on twitter only brought attention on themselves.
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The Jacksons are scared, because if they sue Sony - they are suing Estate. And the Estate would be pissed.. the Estate would than sue them for something, they would stop paying Katherine so she would stop financing the whole parazite Jackson family.. all their kids would have to move from Michael's property...

I think that they should do that anyway because that is moral thing to do. But I think that the fans should be the ones who should sue them. It would be amazing if all the fans (who believes the Cascio tracks are fake) donate 10$ all over the world and we start the case "Michael Jackson Fans against Sony Music/Eddie Cascio and John Branca". I really don't know how it works in US but something should be done by fans and I would be glad to chip in.
 
OnirMJ said:
the Estate would than sue them for something, they would stop paying Katherine so she would stop financing the whole parazite Jackson family..
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Estate can't stop paying Katherine. They are legally required to pay for her living expenses. She's a beneficiary.
 
You know really Sony don't have to prove anything they aren't the ones making the allegations without backing it up. Facts help your case acting the fool on the Internet makes you look silly
 
I'm happy the issue gets more attention, yet I'm sad Hollywood Tonight and other songs are getting included in this debate.
Even today I spoke to some people (both listening to MJ) and they were 100% sure HT was fake and told everyone about it.
It's a sad thing to see, imo, how such a "conspiracy" by fans and the jacksons makes people question pretty much everything...
 
Justthefacts said:
You know really Sony don't have to prove anything they aren't the ones making the allegations without backing it up. Facts help your case acting the fool on the Internet makes you look silly
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Are you kidding me? They don't have to prove anything? You don't think they should prove it's 100% Michael, when the singer doesn't sound like Michael Jackson, but Jason Malachi to the thousands of MJ fans? Even "believers" think it doesn't sound fully like Michael and you just can't disagree with that.

Also, people who think HT is fake (that are MJ fans) clearly should not have their opinions respected. We have sheets with lyrics, people talking about the song's creation, we have demo clips of it, etc.

The Cascio songs on the other hand, what do we have of that? Nothing.
 
Justthefacts said:
You know really Sony don't have to prove anything they aren't the ones making the allegations without backing it up. Facts help your case acting the fool on the Internet makes you look silly
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They alleged these songs that sound just like Jason Malachi are Michael Jackson without backing it up.

And I can tell you for a fact that you cannot get legal aid in this country (UK) to sue a record label because you think they "might" have knowingly allowed fake tracks to be on an album. Sony and the Estate got screwed over. They are never going to admit that. It's almost impossible to prove that they have done anything illegal. The illegal act was committed by those who attempted to sell songs as MJ when they knew that it wasn't MJ singing. As far as I am concerned the perpetrators are EC,JC and JP.
 
They are not alleging anything they say it it's Michael. People who worked for Michael for years say it it's him. What proof do you have that it is not him?
 
Pentum said:
Are you kidding me? They don't have to prove anything? You don't think they should prove it's 100% Michael, when the singer doesn't sound like Michael Jackson, but Jason Malachi to the thousands of MJ fans? Even "believers" think it doesn't sound fully like Michael and you just can't disagree with that.

Also, people who think HT is fake (that are MJ fans) clearly should not have their opinions respected. We have sheets with lyrics, people talking about the song's creation, we have demo clips of it, etc.

The Cascio songs on the other hand, what do we have of that? Nothing.
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That don't have to prove anything because doubters never brought suit against them. Why would Sony care about a bunch a fans that rant about them over the internet? They're some fans that accused them of killing Michael, setting up the 2005 trial, trying to rob Michael and take his Cat, so this isn't the first time fans brought up crap about them. The album, despite all the fuss, still sold over 4 million copies, which is amazing for a CD of this type, so it was by all accounts successful.

Also, Michael has millions of fans across the globe. A thousand of even two-thousand fans means really nothing. Besides, some in that thousand believes that Hollywood Tonight is fake and you say those fans should, 'clearly should not have their opinions respected'. Really, if you can tell a song is Michael or not just by 'hearing' it alone like the doubter have done for the Cascio's songs, then it should stand to reason that any fan should be able to tell that Hollywood Tonight is real just by the vocals alone, no proof need. If you cannot, how can you say it isn't Michael on the Cascio's songs just by sound alone?

As I said, put your money where your mouth is and force Sony's hand. File a freaking suit against Sony, Cascios, and the estate. Go on tweeter and demand that the Jacksons take action and don't stop until they respond. If they refuse, blast them on tweeter and on news outlets. Go to the people who worked with Michael over the years and demand they say whether or not that is Michael on those songs.

Really, do anything, but come on here and complain. Sitting hear and whining from the safety and comfort of your internet is not going to change anything except make you look even more foolish. It has been two years, do something.
 
StellaJackson said:
They alleged these songs that sound just like Jason Malachi are Michael Jackson without backing it up.

And I can tell you for a fact that you cannot get legal aid in this country (UK) to sue a record label because you think they "might" have knowingly allowed fake tracks to be on an album. Sony and the Estate got screwed over. They are never going to admit that. It's almost impossible to prove that they have done anything illegal. The illegal act was committed by those who attempted to sell songs as MJ when they knew that it wasn't MJ singing. As far as I am concerned the perpetrators are EC,JC and JP.
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Then sue them for selling fake songs. Even if you lose or it doesn't go to court, you can at least show that you care other than just typing about it. Take the suggesting I made in this thread and takes action.

You don't have to do it from the UK courts, have the US fans do it and have fans all around donate. You can sue for anything around here. You have 'thousands' of a fans behind you, use them.

Really, all I hear is excuses.
 
Justthefacts said:
They are not alleging anything they say it it's Michael. People who worked for Michael for years say it it's him. What proof do you have that it is not him?
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Are you joking? The fact that they don't sound how Michael has ever sounded for a start. Or the fact that Jason Cupeta's accent, pronounciation and uncontrolled vibrato are all over these tracks. Even the snorts that he does in his own tracks are in these songs. Listen to Jason acapella then listen to Fall In Love. The voice is identical. Couple that with all the suspicious circumstances surrounding these tracks and the total lack lack of clarity regarding their creation and it isn't difficult to see why people believe they are fake. Even the Estate was investigating Jason prior to the albums release. People keep asking for eveidence. Well the evidence is the songs themselves. Where is the proof that it's Michael? Where are the out takes, notes etc?
 
Ramona122003 said:
Then sue them for selling fake songs. Even if you lose or it doesn't go to court, you can at least show that you care other than just typing about it. Take the suggesting I made in this thread and takes action.

You don't have to do it from the UK courts, have the US fans do it and have fans all around donate. You can sue for anything around here. You have 'thousands' of a fans behind you, use them.

Really, all I hear is excuses.
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If you could give me the money it would cost to sue them I will. And perhaps you could find me enough time to do it as well. And what would I be suing them for? How have they wronged me on either a personal or financial level? I didn't even buy the album.

Justthefacts said:
Strong words but no proof.
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Then provide a coherent explanation for all the direct similarities between Jason and the Cascio tracks. Then show me similarities on the tracks with genuine Mj songs.

Ramona122003 said:
That don't have to prove anything because doubters never brought suit against them. Why would Sony care about a bunch a fans that rant about them over the internet? They're some fans that accused them of killing Michael, setting up the 2005 trial, trying to rob Michael and take his Cat, so this isn't the first time fans brought up crap about them. The album, despite all the fuss, still sold over 4 million copies, which is amazing for a CD of this type, so it was by all accounts successful.

Also, Michael has millions of fans across the globe. A thousand of even two-thousand fans means really nothing. Besides, some in that thousand believes that Hollywood Tonight is fake and you say those fans should, 'clearly should not have their opinions respected'. Really, if you can tell a song is Michael or not just by 'hearing' it alone like the doubter have done for the Cascio's songs, then it should stand to reason that any fan should be able to tell that Hollywood Tonight is real just by the vocals alone, no proof need. If you cannot, how can you say it isn't Michael on the Cascio's songs just by sound alone?

As I said, put your money where your mouth is and force Sony's hand. File a freaking suit against Sony, Cascios, and the estate. Go on tweeter and demand that the Jacksons take action and don't stop until they respond. If they refuse, blast them on tweeter and on news outlets. Go to the people who worked with Michael over the years and demand they say whether or not that is Michael on those songs.

Really, do anything, but come on here and complain. Sitting hear and whining from the safety and comfort of your internet is not going to change anything except make you look even more foolish. It has been two years, do something.
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The album sold 2.5 million copies, which was way below expectations. Not to mention the ongoing damage that this has caused from a public relations perspective as we have seen over the last week. I presume you've heard all 12 songs and all the demos of these tracks before labelling us conspiracy theorists? You do know about the words that are pasted in right? And for you information we have done all of the tings you stated above. There is currently an ongoing lawsuit involving two fans and Eddie and Jason.
 
Ramona122003 said:
That don't have to prove anything because doubters never brought suit against them. Why would Sony care about a bunch a fans that rant about them over the internet? They're some fans that accused them of killing Michael, setting up the 2005 trial, trying to rob Michael and take his Cat, so this isn't the first time fans brought up crap about them. The album, despite all the fuss, still sold over 4 million copies, which is amazing for a CD of this type, so it was by all accounts successful.

Also, Michael has millions of fans across the globe. A thousand of even two-thousand fans means really nothing. Besides, some in that thousand believes that Hollywood Tonight is fake and you say those fans should, 'clearly should not have their opinions respected'. Really, if you can tell a song is Michael or not just by 'hearing' it alone like the doubter have done for the Cascio's songs, then it should stand to reason that any fan should be able to tell that Hollywood Tonight is real just by the vocals alone, no proof need. If you cannot, how can you say it isn't Michael on the Cascio's songs just by sound alone?

As I said, put your money where your mouth is and force Sony's hand. File a freaking suit against Sony, Cascios, and the estate. Go on tweeter and demand that the Jacksons take action and don't stop until they respond. If they refuse, blast them on tweeter and on news outlets. Go to the people who worked with Michael over the years and demand they say whether or not that is Michael on those songs.

Really, do anything, but come on here and complain. Sitting hear and whining from the safety and comfort of your internet is not going to change anything except make you look even more foolish. It has been two years, do something.
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Now you tone down your voice. Who do you think the doubters are? The ones who created this mess? We're MJ's fans and nothing more. If you eat up everything the officials tell you go ahead be our guest. But stop treating the doubters as if they were some kind of handicapped cavemans inable to recognize Michael or not knowing what a filing a lawsuit implies.

The doubters aren't as naive as your posts are. The doubters have admitted long ago that they don't have any proof except what can be compared. Which means, you have as much proof as the doubters: someone telling you it's MJ. The doubters haven't been whining, but have been asking the believers for a year and more to show us where you hear Michael on the Cascio songs, to point out which other songs sounds like the Cascio ones. None!

Now if you come here to belittle the doubters, do yourself a favor and walk away. Nobody needs your separatist speeches between the doubters and the believers, we're already split by the Cascio songs. A true fellow fan would fight for the same cause - Michael, and not the Estate, Branca, Cascio or whoever else.
 
Ramona122003 said:
That don't have to prove anything because doubters never brought suit against them. Why would Sony care about a bunch a fans that rant about them over the internet? They're some fans that accused them of killing Michael, setting up the 2005 trial, trying to rob Michael and take his Cat, so this isn't the first time fans brought up crap about them. The album, despite all the fuss, still sold over 4 million copies, which is amazing for a CD of this type, so it was by all accounts successful.
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What are you talking about? They should care - we are the fans. No one else cares about MJ in this world other than his fans.

Why mention other stuff? We're talking about the songs here, not Rob Michael and the trial.

Also, Michael has millions of fans across the globe. A thousand of even two-thousand fans means really nothing. Besides, some in that thousand believes that Hollywood Tonight is fake and you say those fans should, 'clearly should not have their opinions respected'. Really, if you can tell a song is Michael or not just by 'hearing' it alone like the doubter have done for the Cascio's songs, then it should stand to reason that any fan should be able to tell that Hollywood Tonight is real just by the vocals alone, no proof need. If you cannot, how can you say it isn't Michael on the Cascio's songs just by sound alone?
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There are more than athousand or two thousands fans out there that think these songs are bogus. And if some of these fans think HT is fake, then they probably haven't heard the demo clips and the other stuff. I don't want to speak for them.

I can easily tell a Michael song by hearing it. I can hear it's not MJ on the Cascio songs because I know Jason Malachi's voice very good. I listened to him long before this mess and his voice is what I hear on these songs, the first second I heard them. No doubt in my mind. It's so obvious - even more when you hear the comparisons that have been made.

As I said, put your money where your mouth is and force Sony's hand. File a freaking suit against Sony, Cascios, and the estate. Go on tweeter and demand that the Jacksons take action and don't stop until they respond. If they refuse, blast them on tweeter and on news outlets. Go to the people who worked with Michael over the years and demand they say whether or not that is Michael on those songs.
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I don't have a lot of money. I'm in Norway. I'm not that old. You want me to go straight at them? Besides, there are already 2 people at least that are fighting with them in the court right now.

Also, blast them on "tweeter" and on news otules? I've done that, for a whole year. I never stopped. But their strategy - to ignore- is sadly winning.

Really, do anything, but come on here and complain. Sitting hear and whining from the safety and comfort of your internet is not going to change anything except make you look even more foolish. It has been two years, do something.
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If you would've been in this thread from the beginning instead of just now, you'd see that many of the doubters have tried a lot of things, (that is, without suing Sony). I don't think you should just come here today and say we must "do something". it clearly shows you have not been following this.

And so what if I want to whine? It's the internet. I can do whatever I want to do.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Now you tone down your voice. Who do you think the doubters are? The ones who created this mess? We're MJ's fans and nothing more. If you eat up everything the officials tell you go ahead be our guest. But stop treating the doubters as if they were some kind of handicapped cavemans inable to recognize Michael or not knowing what a filing a lawsuit implies.

The doubters aren't as naive as your posts are. The doubters have admitted long ago that they don't have any proof except what can be compared. Which means, you have as much proof as the doubters: someone telling you it's MJ. The doubters haven't been whining, but have been asking the believers for a year and more to show us where you hear Michael on the Cascio songs, to point out which other songs sounds like the Cascio ones. None!

Now if you come here to belittle the doubters, do yourself a favor and walk away. Nobody needs your separatist speeches between the doubters and the believers, we're already split by the Cascio songs. A true fellow fan would fight for the same cause - Michael, and not the Estate, Branca, Cascio or whoever else.
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I have no proof, but I'm not the one accusing another person of a crime or questioning their moral character. You hold the burden of proof, not me. Why should I pay money for a case you all claim to believe in. You claim to know a wrong took place, but sit but and cry when someone calls you out. I'm not like Ivy and I don't wear kid gloves when it comes to BS. You have over two years to do something. You could had taking donations to hire a professional and get those tracks check, but all your proof comes to youtube comparisons. Really, that's the amount of two years worth of research.

Also, no one has to tell me if it is Michael on those songs, just as you doubters claimed that you didn't have to be told that it wasn't Michael. I decided for myself that those songs are mostly Michael and guess what I love Monster. I think it is the best song on that album and I don't and never cared for Hollywood Tonight. If Monster is a fake, is a fine good fake that turned out better to me than the actually 'real' song.

And StellaJackson, file a suit on behalf of the fans who did buy the songs. Get all your doubters and come up with a case. At the very least, go on tweeter and demand that Michael's family take action. Tell T3 that if they know that the songs are fake, take it to court. Hire a professional, get more of people who worked with Michael, and stand up for their uncle. Don't stop, even when the say no. You have enough energy to complain on here, take you voice to the people who can actually do something.

'A true fellow fan would fight for the same cause'. You haven't fought for nothing. All you've done is post on the internet. If you want to fight, go out and actually fight instead of hiding behind a internet screen.

Now if you come here to belittle the believers with no real proof, do yourself a favor and walk away.
 
Ramona122003 said:
That don't have to prove anything because doubters never brought suit against them. Why would Sony care about a bunch a fans that rant about them over the internet? They're some fans that accused them of killing Michael, setting up the 2005 trial, trying to rob Michael and take his Cat, so this isn't the first time fans brought up crap about them. The album, despite all the fuss, still sold over 4 million copies, which is amazing for a CD of this type, so it was by all accounts successful.

Also, Michael has millions of fans across the globe. A thousand of even two-thousand fans means really nothing. Besides, some in that thousand believes that Hollywood Tonight is fake and you say those fans should, 'clearly should not have their opinions respected'. Really, if you can tell a song is Michael or not just by 'hearing' it alone like the doubter have done for the Cascio's songs, then it should stand to reason that any fan should be able to tell that Hollywood Tonight is real just by the vocals alone, no proof need. If you cannot, how can you say it isn't Michael on the Cascio's songs just by sound alone?

As I said, put your money where your mouth is and force Sony's hand. File a freaking suit against Sony, Cascios, and the estate. Go on tweeter and demand that the Jacksons take action and don't stop until they respond. If they refuse, blast them on tweeter and on news outlets. Go to the people who worked with Michael over the years and demand they say whether or not that is Michael on those songs.

Really, do anything, but come on here and complain. Sitting hear and whining from the safety and comfort of your internet is not going to change anything except make you look even more foolish. It has been two years, do something.
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It is not 4 MIL copies, it is 2,5 MIL copies! The album was not successful, it was a flop.
 
For those who have not heard them, or wish to hear them again, here are the comparisons for the album tracks ONLY.

Breaking News.


[youtube]xsldFN2EOFQ[/youtube]

Monster


[youtube]BK6uWRKHKo0[/youtube]

Keep Your Head Up

[youtube]Ql3das3LorI[/youtube]
 
Ramona122003 said:
I have no proof, but I'm not the one accusing another person of a crime or questioning their moral character. You hold the burden of proof, not me. Why should I pay money for a case you all claim to believe in. You claim to know a wrong took place, but sit but and cry when someone calls you out. I'm not like Ivy and I don't wear kid gloves when it comes to BS. You have over two years to do something. You could had taking donations to hire a professional and get those tracks check, but all your proof comes to youtube comparisons. Really, that's the amount of two years worth of research.

Also, no one has to tell me if it is Michael on those songs, just as you doubters claimed that you didn't have to be told that it wasn't Michael. I decided for myself that those songs are mostly Michael and guess what I love Monster. I think it is the best song on that album and I don't and never cared for Hollywood Tonight. If Monster is a fake, is a fine good fake that turned out better to me than the actually 'real' song.

And StellaJackson, file a suit on behalf of the fans who did buy the songs. Get all your doubters and come up with a case. At the very least, go on tweeter and demand that Michael's family take action. Tell T3 that if they know that the songs are fake, take it to court. Hire a professional, get more of people who worked with Michael, and stand up for their uncle. Don't stop, even when the say no. You have enough energy to complain on here, take you voice to the people who can actually do something.

'A true fellow fan would fight for the same cause'. You haven't fought for nothing. All you've done is post on the internet. If you want to fight, go out and actually fight instead of hiding behind a internet screen.

Now if you come here to belittle the believers with no real proof, do yourself a favor and walk away.
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Have you any idea what we have been doing for the last 15 months? Which is actually not two years by the way. Have you any idea how much money and time is involved in filing a lawsuit like that? In this country it is not as simple as that. I suggest you do a lot of reading up on what has been going on with Birchey etc and you might realise just how out of touch you are with this situation.

It would be nice if you could actually identify where you hear Michael in the tracks and give explanations for the vibrato, accent, pronounciation and snorts or spend some time making comparison audios to match up Mj with the Cascio tracks instead of insulting us.
 
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Pentum said:
What are you talking about? They should care - we are the fans. No one else cares about MJ in this world other than his fans.

Why mention other stuff? We're talking about the songs here, not Rob Michael and the trial.

There are more than athousand or two thousands fans out there that think these songs are bogus. And if some of these fans think HT is fake, then they probably haven't heard the demo clips and the other stuff. I don't want to speak for them.

I can easily tell a Michael song by hearing it. I can hear it's not MJ on the Cascio songs because I know Jason Malachi's voice very good. I listened to him long before this mess and his voice is what I hear on these songs, the first second I heard them. No doubt in my mind. It's so obvious - even more when you hear the comparisons that have been made.

I don't have a lot of money. I'm in Norway. I'm not that old. You want me to go straight at them? Besides, there are already 2 people at least that are fighting with them in the court right now.

Also, blast them on "tweeter" and on news otules? I've done that, for a whole year. I never stopped. But their strategy - to ignore- is sadly winning.

If you would've been in this thread from the beginning instead of just now, you'd see that many of the doubters have tried a lot of things, (that is, without suing Sony). I don't think you should just come here today and say we must "do something". it clearly shows you have not been following this.

And so what if I want to whine? It's the internet. I can do whatever I want to do.
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I was here too when the BS hit the fan, so I just didn't come here as I put it. You had two years to get all the fans who had doubts and pull your resources to hire a professional or get someone like Thomas, who supported your cause from the start, to pay for it. Sorry, but the whole money issues falls flat to me given how resourceful fans can be when they really want to.

And really, 'No one else cares about MJ in this world other than his fans.', how arrogant can you be? If you really cared, you would had file suit against everyone you thought were involve, including T3 for withholding evident.

Doubters have done a lot of things, except hire a professional, file suit, and continue to hammer T3 except for half a dozen fans. I hardly calling pulling all your power together.

I also heard Jason Malachi too, thank you very much. He sounds like Michael on some parts, but he never sounds right to me. I listen to Michael and I don't hear Jason Malachi. Besides, even if it was a fake, it isn't like Jason is the only person they could find to mimic Michael's voice. Especially since Jason can be sued if he did take part in fraud. So the fact is, we're both fans, but we don't hear the same thing. Who's right, who knows, which is why we have professionals.
 
StellaJackson said:
Then provide a coherent explanation for all the direct similarities between Jason and the Cascio tracks. Then show me similarities on the tracks with genuine Mj songs.
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If you feel this passionate about it file a lawsuit get others to join you. Use your "proof"
 
Ramona122003 said:
I was here too when the BS hit the fan, so I just didn't come here as I put it. You had two years to get all the fans who had doubts and pull your resources to hire a professional or get someone like Thomas, who supported your cause from the start, to pay for it. Sorry, but the whole money issues falls flat to me given how resourceful fans can be when they really want to.

And really, 'No one else cares about MJ in this world other than his fans.', how arrogant can you be? If you really cared, you would had file suit against everyone you thought were involve, including T3 for withholding evident.

Doubters have done a lot of things, except hire a professional, file suit, and continue to hammer T3 except for half a dozen fans. I hardly calling pulling all your power together.

I also heard Jason Malachi too, thank you very much. He sounds like Michael on some parts, but he never sounds right to me. I listen to Michael and I don't hear Jason Malachi. Besides, even if it was a fake, it isn't like Jason is the only person they could find to mimic Michael's voice. Especially since Jason can be sued if he did take part in fraud. So the fact is, we're both fans, but we don't hear the same thing. Who's right, who knows, which is why we have professionals.
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We have tried to hire a professional. The exchanges between the musicologist and doubters were shown and discussed extensively on Maximum Jackson over a year ago. Money was the barrier which prevented us from going forward. Yes there are other soundalikes but all the similarities are with Jason - vibrato, accent etc.

By T3 I presume you mean 3T. They certainly haven't been withholding anything. They were extremely vocal about this issue and gave a lot of useful info regarding the circumstances at the studio when the songs were delivered.
 
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