Michael - The Great Album Debate

[IvoDT]

Why can't people leave a 13 year old kid alone? Maybe you don't realize that she is only 13 and still a child, because it's the internet and you don't actually see her face to face when she tweets and when you reply, pressuring a child on the internet is quite disgusting and frankly a bit creepy.

I don't even care what she said in 2010, she was what, 10, 11? I said a lot of things when I was 10 or 11, thank God the public or TMZ wasn't watching me. Isn't it enough that TMZ has no shame and exploits a child? I see replies here like "she deserves it" ... a 13 year old child doesn't deserve any of this.

There's only 1 thing she DOES needs to know.
Even if she is "just" 13 years old, she wants to be in the spotlight with her twitter account etc etc, and spreads fake information about her own father. It's not wrong to tell her (and show her) MJ did indeed sing Hollywood Tonight.

You guys are a bit too overprotective (or whatever it is spelled) of someone who isn't even your own child. It's a bit annoying to be honest, while I agree to some level that people need to leave her be.

 

[Milka]

There's only 1 thing she DOES needs to know.
Even if she is "just" 13 years old, she wants to be in the spotlight with her twitter account etc etc, and spreads fake information about her own father. It's not wrong to tell her (and show her) MJ did indeed sing Hollywood Tonight.

Even if she "wants the spotlight", she is 13 and you are responsible for your own actions. Not her. And if you want to show her a video, tweet her once and leave it at that ... don't spam her "until she replies". Would you do this in real life to any kid?

You guys are a bit too overprotective (or whatever it is spelled) of someone who isn't even your own child. It's a bit annoying to be honest, while I agree to some level that people need to leave her be.

I'm always "overprotective" if someone is harassing a child, especially if adults do it.

 

[No-Body]

Why can't people leave a 13 year old kid alone? Maybe you don't realize that she is only 13 and still a child, because it's the internet and you don't actually see her face to face when she tweets and when you reply, pressuring a child on the internet is quite disgusting and frankly a bit creepy.

I don't even care what she said in 2010, she was what, 10, 11? I said a lot of things when I was 10 or 11, thank God the public or TMZ wasn't watching me. Isn't it enough that TMZ has no shame and exploits a child? I see replies here like "she deserves it" ... a 13 year old child doesn't deserve any of this.

GOD BLESS YOU for talkin' sense. People need to back off and leave Paris alone. Those who are quick to react and judge thinking she is exposing herself to the scrutiny by having a twitter account may very well be making a huge mistake. You never can really tell anyone's motivation for things they say or do.

I would advice great care and a lot more caution considering she is indeed only 13, although by this age this brave young lady has already been through things most adults couldn't really stand. God bless her brave little heart. I hope she doesn't feel pressured to answer to any, let alone all the dumb things thrown at her. I know she is a lot smarter than that.

I'm always "overprotective" if someone is harassing a child, especially if adults do it.

There's no such thing as being overprotective when it comes to these things. THANK YOU once more.





About that mess of an 'album' which you lovely people have been talkin' about for years and thousands of pages by now *wowwww* what can i say? The world, especially the online 'realm' is full of impostors and lies, but that should have been clear already.....

I still like the beat on Breakin' news; it is on point as a friend o' mine put it and i still loooove Another day, that's one helluva tune, it really rocks my world. It actually is my favorite & 2nd best is dat ole/new thing which includes my car alarm sounds lol.

 

[qbee]

there is so much proofs that Michael sings in Hollywood:

1. Michael Jackson - Don't Stop It Now (Hollywood Tonight) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXU4wEM-BSg

2. Michael Jackson - Hollywood Tonight (Demo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le4DM5j6MSU

3. Inside Michael Jackson’s “Hollywood” by Joe Vogel http://joevogel.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/exclusive-inside-michael-jacksons-hollywood/

4. Michael's hand written lyrics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TxYH0hAjQ

5. List of songs found in MJ's house with Hollywood Tonight on it...

Yes there is plenty of evidence "Hollywood Tonight" is Michael. Thank you for gathering all the info
I can use that I have the pics of his hand written intructions, lyrics and song list he wrote at Carrolwood

 

[dam2040]

To say I am ANGRY, would be a MASSIVE understatement. Hollywood Tonight is MICHAEL JACKSON. $ony or whoever pulled this off have infuriated me by putting FAKE songs, and these FAKE songs have TARNISHED people's belief, and thus they believe Hollywood Tonight is one of those fakes. Michael worked for 10 plus years on that song, and for it to be dismissed due to $ony's ignorance? One has to ask, what the F***

 

[Chamife]

There's only 1 thing she DOES needs to know.
Even if she is "just" 13 years old, she wants to be in the spotlight with her twitter account

So every child that has a twitter account want to be in the spotlight? She wants to do what every child her age does.

etc etc, and spreads fake information about her own father.

-first, it was a few years ago...so old news.
-second, that's what comes with the age of 10 or 11 and even 13, but not everyone understands that, I guess.

It's not wrong to tell her (and show her) MJ did indeed sing Hollywood Tonight.

We shouldn't interfere with her, even if she says things that aren't true. It's not our job, but that of the people who are responsible for her and guide her.

You guys are a bit too overprotective (or whatever it is spelled) of someone who isn't even your own child. It's a bit annoying to be honest, while I agree to some level that people need to leave her be.

You spelled it right.., and me personally I'm not overprotective of Paris especially, but it's more the adult-child interaction that worries me. I wouldn't want this for any child on Twitter.

 

[qbee]

PLEAS READ Mod Note
This thread have veered off topic. Lets get it back on track please
If you want to argue or admonish others over Paris take it to PM.

Lets all get back to the Topic of this thread - Thanks

 

[mysterygirl7]

The paper that has 'coco butter' on it.. How did that get out? And when? If you know pls

Yes there is plenty of evidence "Hollywood Tonight" is Michael. Thank you for gathering all the infoI can use that I have the pics of his hand written intructions, lyrics and song list he wrote at Carrolwood

 

[tidus72000]

The paper that has 'coco butter' on it.. How did that get out? And when? If you know pls

on the documentary of Dr.CM that aired after the trial i think

 

[qbee]

The paper that has 'coco butter' on it.. How did that get out? And when? If you know pls

Yes in the Documentarry of Murray. there was footage or photo of Michael's Bedroom at Carrolwood which showed some hand written notes taped to his wall

This is a thread discussing the that note and the list of songs MJ had written on it
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...aper-from-inside-his-house)-am-I-late-on-this

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

??

Is this https://twitter.com/#!/pariisjaxn or this https://twitter.com/#!/ParisJackson the real Paris??

Edit: I tweeted both of them. Won't stop til I get an answer.

@ParisJackson is the real one now before it was @PariisJaxn but now it's a poser.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

ADKI and Jason:

LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!


I'm a guy LOL

Sorry about the double post but this made me laugh so damn hard.



@Dam
So Sony is ignorant for releasing music, how did they know this was going to happen that some fans were going to think it was not Michael when they hired forensic musicologists to analyze the songs and they had many producers that worked with MJ for 20+ years and they all confirmed that it was Michael on the lead vocals.

Remember the vocals they heard were raw vocals we have the finished project with the melodyne and all the stuff they did to the songs we do not have confirmed demos we have rumored demos.

 

[shelly_webster]

I am very surprised by Charles Thomson's reaction on twitter.

 

[ivy]

I am very surprised by Charles Thomson's reaction on twitter.

he strongly believes the songs to be fakes and there's nothing wrong with that.

However I too disagree with his behavior because

- he called believers not real fans
- he called them nutters
- he told them to put their heads in an oven and die

those are too harsh, dividing and disrespectful IMO.

- attacked Glee based on the word of Perez Hilton - a wrong story
- when TMZ made the story about Hayvenhurst - another wrong story- used it to attack Estate in regards to songs (bad decisions perspective)
- and today used Paris's recent tweet while totally ignoring and rejecting her HT tweet.

As I said on twitter it is strong opinions combined with clear bias + I'm gonna hate everything Estate does mentality and unneeded negativity towards fellow fans.

He also said to me that he has seen a professional vocal analysis that said it is 100% Malachi. However I don't believe it because
- no test can be 100%. It should have a probability and an error range
- if such test existed it would have been strongest argument point for the doubters , the not releasing shows me either
---- it's not that professional
---- it's not done by a person with high credentials
---- it's not conclusive.

 

[8701girl]

- he told them to put their heads in an oven and die

OMG that is totally uncalled for & immature for him to say that

 

[Ramona122003]

he strongly believes the songs to be fakes and there's nothing wrong with that.

However I too disagree with his behavior because

- he called believers not real fans
- he called them nutters
- he told them to put their heads in an oven and die

those are too harsh, dividing and disrespectful IMO.

- attacked Glee based on the word of Perez Hilton - a wrong story
- when TMZ made the story about Hayvenhurst - another wrong story- used it to attack Estate in regards to songs (bad decisions perspective)
- and today used Paris's recent tweet while totally ignoring and rejecting her HT tweet.

As I said on twitter it is strong opinions combined with clear bias + I'm gonna hate everything Estate does mentality and unneeded negativity towards fellow fans.

He also said to me that he has seen a professional vocal analysis that said it is 100% Malachi. However I don't believe it because
- no test can be 100%. It should have a probability and an error range
- if such test existed it would have been strongest argument point for the doubters , the not releasing shows me either
---- it's not that professional
---- it's not done by a person with high credentials
---- it's not conclusive.

Sorry, but I laughed out loud reading that. Isn't Charles Thomson supposed to be a professional journalist who got on the national media for being lazy with regards to reporting on Michael and he is acting like this? Really, it's shameful of someone of his profession to act like this. He comes across as a craze fan who can't see pass their own butt.

And really, the 'he also said to me that he has seen a professional vocal analysis that said it is 100% Malachi', is very wrong for another reason. He has this 'professional' say the vocal are Malachi, but he never bring these findings to court, to the national media, or even to Michael's family.

This is the problem I have with the doubter. If you truly believe something to be fake, get off the internet and do something. Hire a real professional and get the truth and take the estate, Sony, and everyone else involve in court. Even if you lose, you can say you fought for your right to get the truth out. Instead, fans attacking other fans as blind from the safety of their home. In my opinion, you either put out or shut up on this issue. I mean, it has been over a year and we have grown men like Charles Thomson acting like 13 years.

 

[ivy]

apparently the person who did the professional vocal analysis didn't want it to be public. and that should be alarm bells going on signalling that it probably isn't professional.

It seems like it's a fan that's in some manner in the music business (probably) taking released songs (not raw vocals) and doing some sort of test (who knows what or if it followed generally accepted rules) while being biased (probably) and coming up with a 100% Malachi (not possible as 100% Michael isn't possible either) result.

If my assumption is true it won't mean a thing and won't hold any weight.

If what Charles said was true that a real music professional with good credentials did a professional analysis and got a real strong result that the vocals are fake, there would be no reason to keep it hidden. It's the smoking gun that the doubters are looking for. It doesn't make the slightest sense to not make it public if it's true and if it can stand scrutiny.

 

[8701girl]

But what if the vocal analysis thought something was wrong then why couldnt he do something to stop it?

 

[Ramona122003]

But what if the vocal analysis thought something was wrong then why couldnt he do something to stop it?

That's the real key to everything. We have fans saying that they know Michael's voice and these songs is fake, but no one can't seem to hire a professional to back up their claim. Instead, we get youtube videos as 'evidences' and claims like Charles Thomson who should know that no professional would say something is 100%. Nothing is 100%, which is why DNA evidence has that 98.9% attach to it.

Charles Thomson should be ashamed of himself not for saying the songs are fake, but for acting like a petty fan who didn't get their way. As I said in my first post, if you're not willing to put your butt on the line and take the responsable parties to court for selling fake songs to the public, then you have no right to whine on twitter, telling fans to 'he told them to put their heads in an oven and die'.

 

[KingMikeJ]

To be honest I think Charles Thomson is tweeting so much about these songs being fake as a way to try and convince people to boycott the Estate. He used Paris in his argument as she was Michael's daughter and "she would know", yet he totally ignored her tweet regarding Hollywood Tonight being fake despite being sent it by me and others several times.

This shows me that he is using these songs (which I believe to be "fake") simply as a way to attract a few more Twitter followers (doubters) and maybe he can convince them to support the Jackson family's deals rather than the Estate.

 

[shelly_webster]

apparently the person who did the professional vocal analysis didn't want it to be public. and that should be alarm bells going on signalling that it probably isn't professional.

It seems like it's a fan that's in some manner in the music business (probably) taking released songs (not raw vocals) and doing some sort of test (who knows what or if it followed generally accepted rules) while being biased (probably) and coming up with a 100% Malachi (not possible as 100% Michael isn't possible either) result.

If my assumption is true it won't mean a thing and won't hold any weight.

If what Charles said was true that a real music professional with good credentials did a professional analysis and got a real strong result that the vocals are fake, there would be no reason to keep it hidden. It's the smoking gun that the doubters are looking for. It doesn't make the slightest sense to not make it public if it's true and if it can stand scrutiny.

Did you ask him why he never brought that test to court? It's up to the fans to do that.
Does he understand that, if true, then selling the cd is illegal.

 

[qbee]

Mod Note Ok guys Please lets stay on topic-
This thread is about the Casico songs and Michael Album. Not about Paris twitter account.
The article was brought in to so we can discuss why she has these beliefs about the songs.
not how she should be raised or whether she should be allowed on twitter. etc etc . Thanks

 

[Pentum]

That's the real key to everything. We have fans saying that they know Michael's voice and these songs is fake, but no one can't seem to hire a professional to back up their claim. Instead, we get youtube videos as 'evidences' and claims like Charles Thomson who should know that no professional would say something is 100%. Nothing is 100%, which is why DNA evidence has that 98.9% attach to it.

Charles Thomson should be ashamed of himself not for saying the songs are fake, but for acting like a petty fan who didn't get their way. As I said in my first post, if you're not willing to put your butt on the line and take the responsable parties to court for selling fake songs to the public, then you have no right to whine on twitter, telling fans to 'he told them to put their heads in an oven and die'.

Hello? Do you know how much it costs to rent a musicologist for just a few days?? Thousands of dollars. Don't you think we "knowers" have already tried this a few times and discussed even more?

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Hello? Do you know how much it costs to rent a musicologist for just a few days?? Thousands of dollars. Don't you think we "knowers" have already tried this a few times and discussed even more?

"Knowers" ?

 

[OnirMJ]

Hello? Do you know how much it costs to rent a musicologist for just a few days?? Thousands of dollars. Don't you think we "knowers" have already tried this a few times and discussed even more?

Yes, and starting a court trial against Sony or Michael Jackson's Estate would probably cost 1-2 MIL $. Just to bring the subject to court! When one composer from my country wanted to sue Robbie Williams for plagiarism they told him that he had to put 1 MIL $ just to start the case. Here is the video; he would definitively win but he didn't have 1 MIL to open the case. He also gives comparison of Black or White and one of his songs "Poljupci" by his group "Magazin". He said that Michael probably never heard his song but that similarities exist. The point is that big corporations like Sony and other record companies know that no one will sue them because regular people can not afford it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ori0aQabiQ

 

[Korgnex]

This is not true. You would neither need an expert assessment to open a lawsuit nor would you need much money. It would be unlawful to hamper the legal process for consumers, thus consumers can request legal aid. This is possible in the United States, the UK, Germany and lots of other countries.

That composer example you have given is not comparable as he's not eligible to file a CONSUMER fraud lawsuit as he claims to be violated in one of his OWN rights (copyright and related rights)!
And again: plagiarism is not a crime per se, it's a special case group that CAN qualify for various crimes, most notably copyright infringement. Court cases can mention the word plagiarism in the complaint because that way it's more transparent what the case is about. But you cannot be penalized for plagiarism, such a law does not exist in ANY country. You can be penalized for copyright infringement e.g. and plagiarism can be an ELEMENT of an offense.


About Charles Thompson: He's being spammed by Damien Shields and TPIMaster who have been telling him for months there would be a conspiracy and Sony would be threatening fans etc. He simply believes them, nothing wrong with that. However that way doubters might be happy to see him joining cursing, but it won't help them to achieve their actual goal.

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Yes, and starting a court trial against Sony or Michael Jackson's Estate would probably cost 1-2 MIL $. Just to bring the subject to court!

Then there is no end in sight for this album debate that is going into its second full year? With all the damage this has done to the Michael Jackson fan community and Michael's musical reputation already, I can't believe it. What a shame. I'm sorry. But this really makes me sad and angry.

 

[ivy]

Did you ask him why he never brought that test to court? It's up to the fans to do that.
Does he understand that, if true, then selling the cd is illegal.

I did and he said the person that did the "professional vocal analysis" didn't want it to be public. That's why I called it unbelievable. If I had such thing and if I was a doubter or knower as Pentum calls it, I would not be silent about it. It's the smoking gun, it's the evidence that doubters need - of course if it's legit and strong.

Hello? Do you know how much it costs to rent a musicologist for just a few days?? Thousands of dollars. Don't you think we "knowers" have already tried this a few times and discussed even more?

you don't have to worry about that, according to Charles Thomson there's a professional vocal analysis that says 100% Malachi but is being kept secret because the person did it doesn't want to make it public. You can ask him to make it public although I have a hunch that it would not be coming from a musicologist or it would not be a professional vocal analysis. It would be a fan that's somewhat in the music industry that did some waveform or a comparison etc and went "dude it's 100% Malachi".

Yes, and starting a court trial against Sony or Michael Jackson's Estate would probably cost 1-2 MIL $. Just to bring the subject to court! When one composer from my country wanted to sue Robbie Williams for plagiarism they told him that he had to put 1 MIL $ just to start the case.

It's quite different in USA. Milli Vanilli was sued by a house wife in Ohio. Nona Jackson - the crazy woman who thinks she's married to Michael, had children etc - has been filing motions in all Michael related cases for years. So starting it is real easy, and if there's a legit vocal analysis it can also pass the dismissal phase and can see a jury for a decision.

About Charles Thompson: He's being spammed by Damien Shields and TPIMaster who have been telling him for months there would be a conspiracy and Sony would be threatening fans etc. He simply believes them, nothing wrong with that. However that way doubters might be happy to see him joining cursing, but it won't help them to achieve their actual goal.

Well he's claiming that he saw a professional vocal analysis which I thought was probably the comparisons TPImaster did.

 

[Ramona122003]

I did and he said the person that did the "professional vocal analysis" didn't want it to be public. That's why I called it unbelievable. If I had such thing and if I was a doubter or knower as Pentum calls it, I would not be silent about it. It's the smoking gun, it's the evidence that doubters need - of course if it's legit and strong.



you don't have to worry about that, according to Charles Thomson there's a professional vocal analysis that says 100% Malachi but is being kept secret because the person did it doesn't want to make it public. You can ask him to make it public although I have a hunch that it would not be coming from a musicologist or it would not be a professional vocal analysis. It would be a fan that's somewhat in the music industry that did some waveform or a comparison etc and went "dude it's 100% Malachi".



It's quite different in USA. Milli Vanilli was sued by a house wife in Ohio. Nona Jackson - the crazy woman who thinks she's married to Michael, had children etc - has been filing motions in all Michael related cases for years. So starting it is real easy, and if there's a legit vocal analysis it can also pass the dismissal phase and can see a jury for a decision.



Well he's claiming that he saw a professional vocal analysis which I thought was probably the comparisons TPImaster did.

Which is my point, thanks Ivy.

The doubters never actually tried to get their case to court. All I heard was excuses like: it cost too much, we can't beat Sony, what's the point? If you really believed that these songs were fake and were dumping on Michael's legacy you would had found a way to bring it to the attention of the court system. It doesn't take much in the US to sue a person and order a test if there is real concern that a company is cheating buyers. Regular folks brought Michael to court a bunch of times over him supposedly stealing songs and I doubt they had to drop a million dollars at the front door.

Sorry, simple going on a fan board and ranting for two years saying 'I know such and such' proves nothing and makes you look silly. In fact, you're worst than the 'believers' because you sat by and did nothing while an injustice happened. As I said, if you truly believe these songs to be fake, you all should had put your money where you mouths are.

 

[Willy]

That TMZ article really helped the case. For example, today one of the most popular Polish sites wrote a short aricle about the album controversy, Jason Malachi, etc. More and more people are getting to know about it and sooner or later it will all fall apart. We're one step closer to the truth being revealed.