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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ Thats exactly the right expression, though. George Michael was one of the biggest stars in the world until Tommy Mottola joined Sony. Soon as that happened, George wanted out. Literally losing YEARS of his career at it's peak in order to sever ties with Mottola and Sony.

Prince disappeared, retail outlets wouldn't even sell his albums for the best part of 10 years. 10 years! He pioneered his own business model and came back and won.

No different, in my opinion, to Michael's output from HIStory onwards. He wanted out. No question.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hey :) I'm a die-hard, crazily, unhealthily obsessed Michael Jackson fan and I was so spellbound and pleasantly surprised when I found out what the meaning behind the sexily awesome song, '2,000 Watts' is.
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I'm a songwriter and I understand lyrics, I've done extensive research into MJ's songwriting method and techniques and what he's done here is use a metaphor for sex; it's about an orgasm. Let me take it step by step... ​


VERSE ONE: Bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go
Just enough to make your juices flow
Press play, don't stop, rotate, too hot
You feel I'm real
I'm everything you need, so tell me what's the deal ​



Verse one is about the foreplay; 'how low you go, juices flow, press play, ect...'
The beginning of the song is about the beginning of sex. ​



CHORUS: 2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don't overload
2000 Watts, 8 ohms, 200 volts, real strong
Too much of that, fuse blown
Be careful what you say don't overload ​



The chorus is clearly the main part of the song. 2,000 watts = climax. The use of terms such as 'real strong' and 'fuse blown' are completely overt sexual innuendos. ​



VERSE TWO: 3D, high speed, feedback, Dolby?
Release two or three, when I reach I can go 'til I hit my peak
Compact steelo, chico, D-Lo, highpost lady Shorty really wanna be there for me ​



This is also obvious; perhaps the most sexually vivid part of the song.
'Release two or three, when I reach I can go 'til I hit my peak' - sex. ​




I love this song, it's so sexy and he sounds great in it. Hope I've helped!
Long Live The King.​
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​

​












 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I truly don't know what to think about Invincible. I think it's a great album. I enjoy it as much as all other Michael Jackson albums. On one hand, I agree with Tony that Michael was too much a perfectionist to deliberately release what he thought as sub-par materials. He simply loved his arts too much to do so.

If he did withhold better songs and gave Sony so-so stuff, what can I say man, what he considered so-so are still masterpiece!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

About Michael never insulting the paparazzi, I think you're mistaken...

He's flipped them off before, said they're terrible. I don't think he has any respect for them at all in any of his music. "You'd even sell your soul"? Oh, not insulting at all...

You can choose not to be a paparazzi... Nobody is forcing these people to do it. I don't think Michael Jackson had any respect for them.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I am fed up with repeating that Invincible is an excellent album. There is no weak song on that album. Michael probably left better songs for further albums, but INVINCIBLE has definitely no weak song. The only error I would say is that Michael chose "You Rock My Workd" instead of "Rock Your Body" which is much fresher and his style.

Invincible is as good as any Michael's album. It sold 8 million copies worldwide in an era when everyone could download it for free more easily than today as the anti-download regulations were not clearly implemented in many countries. You had lots of share sofwares such as limewire, winmx, napster, kazaa, etc. People didn't bother to buy cds any more. Today despite many illegal downloads, there are still a reasonable number of legal downloads on softwares such as i-TUnes.

Bear in mind that Invincible had only one video with Michael in it which was meant to be continued (but never did). Cry came afterwards without Michael in the video. The promotion was dead and wasted huge, tremendous potential hits:

-Unbreakable
-Threatened (imagine the video for that one! We saw a snippet at This Is It rehearsals, it was bomb blasting!)
-2000 Watts (good song for clubs and the beginning of the new millenium, "DANCE" says the deep voice with awesome rhythm sounding as a new millenium Wanna be startin' somethin')
-Whatever Happens (brilliant song with Santana and lyrics in 3d person, quite rare)
-Butterflies (inimitable and matched the r'n'b hype; the version with Eve isn't too bad)
-Speechless and The Lost Children (perfect songs for Christmas)
-Break of Dawn & Heaven can wait (EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! soft, pure, fresh, tender, loving, warm, bouncing, --SING THEM WITH FRIENDS, they put hellova good atmosphere!)
-Privacy (Hail Rock! with FINALLY a real ROCK voice; has nothing to envy Metallica's singer! And Slash is awesome there as well)
-Heartbreaker & Invincible "Awesome bouncing tracks, dance to them, sing them)
Take a look here what a MJ-FAN Pakistani/Hindi (I think) singer did with it! It made a huge hit in his country!!!
-Don't walk away & You are my life (sit down relax, and listen to those ballads flow your body and veins; short movies such as "You are not alone" could have been made)

[youtube]PgpUgH5VTG4[/youtube]
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
About Michael never insulting the paparazzi, I think you're mistaken...

He's flipped them off before, said they're terrible. I don't think he has any respect for them at all in any of his music. "You'd even sell your soul"? Oh, not insulting at all...

You can choose not to be a paparazzi... Nobody is forcing these people to do it. I don't think Michael Jackson had any respect for them.
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I don't blame Michael. Paparazzi are scum

If people want pictures/videos of celebrities then they should take them at movie/music award shows. Not when the celebrity is out with his/her's family getting a bite to eat.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
[/LEFT]
​
[/LEFT]












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Told you :coffee:

:naughty:

love is magical said:
I truly don't know what to think about Invincible. I think it's a great album. I enjoy it as much as all other Michael Jackson albums. On one hand, I agree with Tony that Michael was too much a perfectionist to deliberately release what he thought as sub-par materials. He simply loved his arts too much to do so.

If he did withhold better songs and gave Sony so-so stuff, what can I say man, what he considered so-so are still masterpiece!
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It is definitely my least favourite album. I still think it's great, but below his standards. His vocals, however, are some of the strongest I've ever heard from him.

I'm not sure what I feel about him leaving his best stuff off of the album; it's seems to make sense, though. I mean, it lacks his magic IMO. It's grown on me over the years, but I have to admit I was disappointed when I first listened to it when it was released. It's almost like he was quite passive when creating it. He only wrote 2 songs out of the 16 on the entire album. That's unusual for him. The output reflected little heavy involvement on his part. Too many writers/producers, IMO.

I can agree with Tony in saying that Michael was a perfectionist and seems unlikely he'd do that deliberately. However, I can see Sam's point of view as well. Michael was a shrewd businessman. It was obviously difficult to fire his own father back in the day. I think being under those stifling conditions, he only did what he had to do.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
About Michael never insulting the paparazzi, I think you're mistaken...
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I said, as far as I remember the lyrics I've never seen any insulting lyrics coming from MJ's part. So, I am ready to be mistaken if anyone can prove the opposite.

Aniram said:
He's flipped them off before, said they're terrible. I don't think he has any respect for them at all in any of his music.
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Where? In which song precisely did he straightforwardly called them names such as animal, monster or any othert straightforward insulting word?


Aniram said:
"You'd even sell your soul"? Oh, not insulting at all...
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That, my friend, is not an insult. It is a harsh, nevertheless true, remark. He is lecturing them. And as far as I know these lines are not aimed at paparazzi alone, but at all those who are trying to extort money from him. It is rather aimed at the Chandlers who tarnished his image for money. The least he could do is some criticizing in his songs, which he did, but not insulting and calling names.

Aniram said:
You can choose not to be a paparazzi... Nobody is forcing these people to do it. I don't think Michael Jackson had any respect for them.
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I agree, nevertheless, as I said, Michael always said in his interviews that he was ready to forgive them because he was educated like that. Besides, he was not mean to them as one of the lasts videos of him can show it:

[youtube]aVlr8WIxhAE&feature=fvw[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

For me one of the main problems with Invincible is that there was way too many songwriters on there. Michael seemed to rely more on having outside songwriters come in and co-write with him instead of writing a good chunk of the album by himself like his previous albums. Out of the 16 songs there was only 2 that Michael wrote on his own. Speechless and The Lost Children. Less Michael Jackson songwriting = Less Michael Jackson magic.

I do enjoy the album and i still like listening to it but for me it's not as great as his previous albums.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
Told you :coffee:

:naughty:



It is definitely my least favourite album. I still think it's great, but below his standards. His vocals, however, are some of the strongest I've ever heard from him.

I'm not sure what I feel about him leaving his best stuff off of the album; it's seems to make sense, though. I mean, it lacks his magic IMO. It's grown on me over the years, but I have to admit I was disappointed when I first listened to it when it was released. It's almost like he was quite passive when creating it. He only wrote 2 songs out of the 16 on the entire album. That's unusual for him. The output reflected little heavy involvement on his part. Too many writers/producers, IMO.

I can agree with Tony in saying that Michael was a perfectionist and seems unlikely he'd do that deliberately. However, I can see Sam's point of view as well. Michael was a shrewd businessman. It was obviously difficult to fire his own father back in the day. I think being under those stifling conditions, he only did what he had to do.
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Yet, he sold dozens of millions of albums and changed the history of the music industry when paradoxally his father was still in the game, as credited on Thriller.

I am not defending his father, but honestly speaking when he split from his family and Quincy Jones, I have impression that he fell into a pack of wolves where everyone wanted a piece of him. When you reach that high you shouldn't trust anyone any more. I mean when you reach a point where you can't trust your own father or family, how can you trust anyone outside who barely know you? Anyway, the contract with SONY wasn't the best move. Despite the high quality that SONY provides, they also demonstrated how low promotional they can get.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ You spelled 'barely' wrong :coffee:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
^^ You spelled 'barely' wrong :coffee:
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:hysterical::jump:

You see what happens when you hang around with wrong people :tease:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
:hysterical::jump:

You see what happens when you hang around with wrong people :tease:
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You will never beat me in the spelling department. EVER!! I am the greatest.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
^^ You spelled 'barely' wrong :coffee:
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I have a dilemma for you Miss, is it:

A) "You spelled "barely" wrong"

B) "You spelled "barely" wrongly"

C) "You spelt "barely" wrong"

D) "You spelt "barely wrongly"

Enjoy the English language :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I have a dilemma for you Miss, is it:

A) "You spelled "barely" wrong"

B) "You spelled "barely" wrongly"

C) "You spelt "barely" wrong"

D) "You spelt "barely wrongly"

Enjoy the English language :D
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Both A and C are correct. They are both acceptable. Spelt is a ridiculous word. Words don't control us.

:tease:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
Both A and C are correct. They are both acceptable. Spelt is a ridiculous word. Words don't control us.

:tease:
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You barely answered not wrong. They're all correct :tease:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
Since when??? That's not cool.
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Well in American English you would naturally use "wrong" as an adjective and as an adverb, except when it is impossible otherwise.

And "spelled" is more common than "spelt".

However, grammatically speaking they're all correct. It will depend on the region where you live hehehe :p
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Well in American English you would naturally use "wrong" as an adjective and as an adverb, except when it is impossible otherwise.

And "spelled" is more common than "spelt".

However, grammatically speaking they're all correct. It will depend on the region where you live hehehe :p
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Hmmm....It's been a while since I studied English. :lol: Either way, I was right, so that's all that matters :tease:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Around 50% of the Invincible album is as good, or better, than anything else MJ has previously recorded. Take that as a positive or a negative.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

kopwatcher said:
Around 50% of the Invincible album is as good, or better, than anything else MJ has previously recorded. Take that as a positive or a negative.
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In other words, the remaining average 50% of the Invincible album is as bad or worse than anything else MJ had previously recorded? :doh:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
In other words, the remaining average 50% of the Invincible album is as bad or worse than anything else MJ had previously recorded? :doh:
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"As bad"?

Apart from Privacy, I think they're all quality songs. I'm just saying 50% of them are up there with his very best. Which makes it, in my opinion, his best.

But interpet it how you want.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael admitted he didn't like paparazzi, in his own words, with the interview with Barbara Walters. He said he didn't mind the presence when they showed up, but made the point that they stay kind, which wasn't always the case. At the end of the day, he didn't want to live his life that way.


The same person who mouthed "**** you" to a paparazzi, for overstepping a boundary during trial. The same person who, allegedly, was informed of someone's death, who had had shown nothing but distaste for Michael in the past, and basically said good riddance. I don't think the terms "Monster" and "..He's like an animal" to be too beneath him.


To be fair, he also said in the same Barbara Walters interview, that you shouldn't point at anyone and call them "an animal". But again, calling someone the "devil" isn't any better, with that said, when directed to certain people and their negativity, it seems Michael had no problem using similar terms to describe certain individuals, ie. Tabloids, paparazzi & Tommy Mattola.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

kopwatcher said:
"As bad"?

Apart from Privacy, I think they're all quality songs. I'm just saying 50% of them are up there with his very best. Which makes it, in my opinion, his best.

But interpet it how you want.
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I was just kidding.

PRIVACY is not a bad song. It is a rock song. You can't compare Privacy to other songs on the album, they are completely different musical styles. It is as if you compared Metallica to Justin Timberlake. The power of Michael is that he could reach different audiences contrary to many artists who were stuck only with one style of music on their albums.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Michael admitted he didn't like paparazzi, in his own words, with the interview with Barbara Walters. He said he didn't mind the presence when they showed up, but made the point that they stay kind, which wasn't always the case. At the end of the day, he didn't want to live his life that way.


The same person who mouthed "**** you" to a paparazzi, for overstepping a boundary during trial. The same person who, allegedly, was informed of someone's death, who had had shown nothing but distaste for Michael in the past, and basically said good riddance. I don't think the terms "Monster" and "..He's like an animal" to be too beneath him.


To be fair, he also said in the same Barbara Walters interview, that you shouldn't point at anyone and call them "an animal". But again, calling someone the "devil" isn't any better, with that said, when directed to certain people and their negativity, it seems Michael had no problem using similar terms to describe certain individuals, ie. Tabloids, paparazzi & Tommy Mattola.
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Let's not forget to make a difference between songs and interviews. In the interviews he explained and showed that he was educated to forgive. In his speeches he as a matter of fact was angry at some journalists and people like Tommy Motolla. But he never overstepped to the point to write down lyrics and then sing them. The harshest thing he did is basically D.S. To be honest, in Michael's place many would be much harsher after all Michael had to go trhrough.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Invincible is underrated by the people who bash it and it's overrated by the people who praise it. The album is good but it's nothing special

Ok i'm gonna run now
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ "nothing special", eh? You can all have your opinions about Invincible, but remember that it doesn't make you right. People connect with music for different reasons and I've noticed that you can't really tell why someone connects the way they do, as everyone has their own upbringing and situations.

I, for one, think Invincible is an incredibly amazing, powerful album, and I'm glad he released it. I think it's very special, I don't even want to think if he didn't release it. Heartbreaker, Invincible, You Rock My World, Speechless, Butterflies, You Are My Life, Threatened, Don't Walk Away... these songs changed my life.

By the way, just because he co-wrote a lot of these songs doesn't mean he didn't contribute a LOT to them.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
By the way, just because he co-wrote a lot of these songs doesn't mean he didn't contribute a LOT to them.
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Here's the original demo for Whatever Happens. Which, at this point, Michael hadn't worked on.

Now... what did Michael add A LOT Of to this demo to earn him a songwriting credit? And what did Teddy add to get a songwriting credit? Whatever co-writing either of them did on this song, for example, wasn't 'a LOT'.

[youtube]4MPv6f-zYys[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I just don't feel that the songs on Invincible are as good as songs like They Don't Care About Us, Stranger In Moscow, Who Is It, Liberian Girl, Smooth Criminal and Will You Be There. The songs that Michael writes on his own are always his best. yes there are exceptions but 95% of the time his best songs are his self penned ones. In my opinion

Like i said before i like Invincible and i enjoy listening to it but it is my least favorite album. Also i'm one of the ones who always defends The Lost Children cause i think it's one of the best songs on the album.

Invincible songs i like:
Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Invincible
You Rock My World
Speechless
2,000 Watts
The Lost Children
Whatever Happens
Threatened

Invincible songs i dislike
Privacy
Butterflies (I know that lots of people love this but i honestly don't understand what people see in it. I'm just gonna have to expect that there's something i'm not getting)

Invincible songs i think are just ok:
Heaven Can Wait
Don't Walk Away
Break Of Dawn
You Are My Life
Cry
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
Now... what did Michael add A LOT Of to this demo to earn him a songwriting credit? And what did Teddy add to get a songwriting credit? Whatever co-writing either of them did on this song, for example, wasn't 'a LOT'.
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What about the other co-written songs? Were they already largely lyrically complete before MJ got them?
 
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