Michael - The Great Album Debate

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'd love to see HT and BTM get the recognition they deserve, especially BTM, but the lack of promotion we've seen is likely only going to continue.

The album is dead, anyway. I look at the lack of promotion as a good thing. The less people know about this joke of an album, the better.

[youtube]IIAdHEwiAy8&feature=fvw[/youtube]

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[youtube]IIAdHEwiAy8&feature=fvw[/youtube]

:hysterical: :hysterical:

ALRIGHT! I confess! I confess that I had a lapse in brain function and proceeded to type 'Instinctually' instead of 'Instinctively'...And it seems that, as punishment, Bumper would like to cut my balls off. Good luck with that one

Yes, I made a mistake, but, let it be known that I've NEVER denied being blonde.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

:hysterical: :hysterical:

ALRIGHT! I confess! I confess that I had a lapse in brain function and proceeded to type 'Instinctually' instead of 'Instinctively'...And, it seems that, as punishment, Bumper would like to cut my balls off. Good luck with that one

Yes, I made a mistake, but, let it be known that I've NEVER denied being blonde.

Shhhh, you shouldn't have said it, I was enjoying the secrecy lol

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Shhhh, you shouldn't have said it, I was enjoying the secrecy lol

Oh, and give you more incentive to tease me? I don't think so! :lol:

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Shhhh, you shouldn't have said it, I was enjoying the secrecy lol

Oh, and give you more incentive to tease me? I don't think so! :lol:

guys... let's keep it in the closet...

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Just to get back to this quote:

You seemingly lack proper respect for another's opinion, no one, no one is telling you, "It's Michael Jackson, you're wrong". The only one with a blatant level of disrespect for another person like that, is you, I'm afraid. I've seen Jesta state, that it's their opinion, and they respect your right to disagree, your problem is, you feel the need to bypass that common ground, the median, in order to tell someone their belief is wrong, and why.

This is what I posted to Jesta.

I respect your right to an opinion, of course. I don't respect your opinion, however.

You are the only person on here who tries to turn conversations personal when the going gets tough. At no stage have you answered the question as to how you DIDN'T hear Michael Jackson and then you DID hear Michael Jackson on these songs. Just more, personal, nonsense. Completely baseless, at that.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Sam, I don't think you're going to get an answer out of her...

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^I asked the supporters of the Cascio tracks questions like:

1. Has it ever come across your mind that the lyrics of the Cascio tracks are unusally weak?

2. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to incorporate insulting remarks in his song?

3. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to sing those insulting lines?

I don't think I get any DIRECT answer.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ Sam, I don't think you're going to get an answer out of her...

Of course. If I was arguing for my side, however, I'd take on any argument that was in my way.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I would like to know too, though.....Just out of simple curiosity. Like I said before, a lot of people changed their minds to pro-Cascio after hearing the acapella of BN. For me, though, that acapella only cemented my disgust.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I would like to know too, though.....Just out of simple curiosity. Like I said before, a lot of people changed their minds to pro-Cascio after hearing the acapella of BN. For me, though, that acapella only cemented my disgust.

I just find it amazing that Jason Malachi's (predictable) denial of being involved in corporate fraud alters the audio file so that we are now listening to Michael where we weren't listening to him before.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^I asked the supporters of the Cascio tracks questions like:

1. Has it ever come across your mind that the lyrics of the Cascio tracks are unusally weak?

2. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to incorporate insulting remarks in his song?

3. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to sing those insulting lines?

I don't think I get any DIRECT answer.

1- they are demo : unfinished business
2- what are you talking about ?

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They aren't demos. No way. We all know how an MJ demo sounds, not at all like that. And a Jason Malachi demo sounds like this. (11:08)

[youtube]DhFuAY1pE2c[/youtube]

He sounds like such an out of tune whiteboy.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I can hear MJ in the Cascio Tracks...

Too Bad you can't !

 

[kreen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^I asked the supporters of the Cascio tracks questions like:

1. Has it ever come across your mind that the lyrics of the Cascio tracks are unusally weak?

2. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to incorporate insulting remarks in his song?

3. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to sing those insulting lines?

I don't think I get any DIRECT answer.

1- No, they're not unusually weak. They're run-of-the-mill pop lyrics, neither better nor worse than most of the stuff on most pop songs.

2- What insulting remark are you talking about again?

3- I'll answer 3 based on 2.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

1- No, they're not unusually weak. They're run-of-the-mill pop lyrics, neither better nor worse than most of the stuff on most pop songs.

When have you ever heard a 'run-of-the-mill' pop song by Michael Jackson? That was the difference with him - he was anything but that. You may not think they're weak, but they definitely are for Michael Jackson.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When have you ever heard a 'run-of-the-mill' pop song by Michael Jackson? That was the difference with him - he was anything but that. You may not think they're weak, but they definitely are for Michael Jackson.

They'd be piss-poor for Justin Bieber. Let alone the greatest entertainer that ever lived.

But hey... maybe 'They eat your soul... like a vegetable...' is where he was at in 2007.

 

[analogue]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I would like to know too, though.....Just out of simple curiosity. Like I said before, a lot of people changed their minds to pro-Cascio after hearing the acapella of BN. For me, though, that acapella only cemented my disgust.

What i find even more mind boggling is how the people who didn't think it was MJ changed their minds after the estate released that statement claiming that it was MJ, and even though the estate provided no proof what so ever to show that i was MJ on the cascio tracks, alot of fans still believed them.

I guess a statement with no proof is enough for some people

 

[moonwalkingsteve]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^I asked the supporters of the Cascio tracks questions like:

1. Has it ever come across your mind that the lyrics of the Cascio tracks are unusally weak?

2. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to incorporate insulting remarks in his song?

3. Do you think Michael Jackson would have agreed to sing those insulting lines?

I don't think I get any DIRECT answer.

1. Not unusually weak considering they are a demo and MJ once sang 'love is a donut' on a demo. Also in terms of a fully completed MJ song 2000 watts is nothing clever lyrically. When i say demo, im suggesting mj sang in demo form and because the sound quality was poor (i.e too quiet, other sounds in the room) the vocals have been 'treated' and messed with to bring up to studio quality. This is what the estate claims - whether true or false. Taking that into account lyrical content is neither here nor there.

2. Mj was quite insulting in DS and i don't see Monster as being anymore insulting than that. Lyrically it is pretty standard and mild when you consider that MJ songs have in the past featured dark themes and even swearing (see history album)

3. see above.


The questions you ask aren't even relavent - the only thing that matters is whether the vocals sound like MJ. Obviously people have different opinions on that - but thats all they are, opinions.

 

[kreen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When have you ever heard a 'run-of-the-mill' pop song by Michael Jackson? That was the difference with him - he was anything but that.

This whole deification of MJ is something I don't go for. MJ has recorded a LOT of terrible songs, with terrible lyrics. Come on now. Not a single soul on this forum -- or indeed anywhere -- would remember let alone still listen to Invincible, if it had been released by, say, Brandy, which it totally could have been considering MJ barely wrote anything for it.

If there was no controversy surrounding the Cascios, you'd all be in love with their songs on the album -- and ironically, moderate fans like myself would then probably have to remind you that they're not THAT good.

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This whole deification of MJ is something I don't go for. MJ has recorded a LOT of terrible songs, with terrible lyrics. Come on now. Not a single soul on this forum -- or indeed anywhere -- would remember let alone still listen to Invincible, if it had been released by, say, Brandy, which it totally could have been considering MJ barely wrote anything for it.

Invincible is a beautiful, underrated album. The only song I don't listen to is Privacy.

If there was no controversy surrounding the Cascios, you'd all be in love with their songs on the album -- and ironically, moderate fans like myself would then probably have to remind you that they're not THAT good.

Would we? I don't think so. And those songs being on the album doesn't change the fact that it isn't MJ singing. And don't even start with the whole "fan" argument.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This whole deification of MJ is something I don't go for. MJ has recorded a LOT of terrible songs, with terrible lyrics. Come on now. Not a single soul on this forum -- or indeed anywhere -- would remember let alone still listen to Invincible, if it had been released by, say, Brandy, which it totally could have been considering MJ barely wrote anything for it.

If there was no controversy surrounding the Cascios, you'd all be in love with their songs on the album -- and ironically, moderate fans like myself would then probably have to remind you that they're not THAT good.

Complete and utter bullshit.

MJ hardly wrote a word on Invincible. Invincible is the product of a man desperately trying to extricate himself from a corrupt recording company.

'Deification'. What a stupid comment. You come onto a Michael Jackson FAN site and post that? Ridiculous thing to say. I'm not into 'fans' posting bullshit comments, demeaning his life's work just to justify the bogus quality of these disgusting excuses for songs.

If there was no controversy these songs would still be shit. And the lyrics would still be shit. And the vocals would still be shit. And they still wouldn't sound like Michael Jackson.

 

[moonwalkingsteve]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think the songs are good, i admit there's a debate to be had around the vocals, but putting that aside, the songs themselves are of a good standard. Thats my opinion it is as valid as anyone elses.

Just to note - i think Invincible is very underrated, it contains good and bad for example:

Good

You Rock My World
Butterflies
Whatever Happens
Heaven Can Wait
Break of Dawn
Unbreakable
Speechless

OK

Heartbreaker
Invincible
You are my Life
Don't Walk Away
Threatened
Cry

Bad

2000 watts
Privacy
The Lost Children

Again thats my opinion, others will having differing views and that shows how subjective music is. There is no definitive answer as to the quality of the Cascio tracks because people's opinions will vary.

Obviously there is a definitive answer as to whether MJ is singing on these tracks. But we don't know and thats because it sounds enough like him for some fans to believe its him but admittedly enough variation in the voice we are hearing to make some fans doubt and some to deny its him. Is that due to it being an imposter? or is that due to the reasons put forward by the estate? Thats the crux of the discussion here.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Invincible is a beautiful, underrated album. The only song I don't listen to is Privacy.
.

completely agree !

Invincible is just incredible...

I still don't understand what the fans have against this album which is far better than History IMO.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Obviously there is a definitive answer as to whether MJ is singing on these tracks. But we don't know and thats because it sounds enough like him for some fans to believe its him but admittedly enough variation in the voice we are hearing to make some fans doubt and some to deny its him. Is that due to it being an imposter? or is that due to the reasons put forward by the estate? Thats the crux of the discussion here.

All I would like to know is what has changed people's minds. To go from one extreme to the next. From the MASSIVE shock of 'who the fcuk is this???' to 'Ok, now I know it's 100% MJ'....

HOW did you come to this conclusion when your ears told you something completely different?

A vague statement that proves NOTHING, when your ears told you from the very start what you heard.

Suddenly using your own hearing isn't good enough anymore? Have you lost faith in what you should be trusting the most?

A statement is everything you need to tell you it's Michael Jackson singing on those records?

Did you ever have to be told before in all your years as a Michael Jackson fan who you are listening to?

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

the reason is simple : both are right !

there are mj vocals in it and there are an impersonator vocals too...

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

the reason is simple : both are right !

there are mj vocals in it and there are an impersonator vocals too...

The only MJ vocals are the ones sampled from other songs.

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This whole deification of MJ is something I don't go for. MJ has recorded a LOT of terrible songs, with terrible lyrics. Come on now. Not a single soul on this forum -- or indeed anywhere -- would remember let alone still listen to Invincible, if it had been released by, say, Brandy, which it totally could have been considering MJ barely wrote anything for it.

If there was no controversy surrounding the Cascios, you'd all be in love with their songs on the album -- and ironically, moderate fans like myself would then probably have to remind you that they're not THAT good.

Invincible is a masterpiece. So your attempt at making a point by continually bashing it will not work, it just makes you look desperate.

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

1. Not unusually weak considering they are a demo and MJ once sang 'love is a donut' on a demo.

Actually, "love is a donut" had meaning to michael. In (was it Moonwalk? i can't remember) some interview he talked about how Joe was really strict but some of the little things he did made michael feel loved, like that time he always talks about when his dad lifted him up onto a pony at the fair, or how Joe always brought home glazed DONUTS on sunday morning because they were michael's favorite . . .

so in his case, love actually IS a donut and that meant something to him. Hmmm, i wonder what deep, childhood memory inspired the lyrics "mama got you in a zig zag" or "they'll eat your soul like a vegetable?" maybe sam has some ideas?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

thats because it sounds enough like him

It sounds exactly like a Michael Jackson impersonator. Of whom we are all familiar. Not 'like him'. Exactly the same as him.

Either way, fans slating off Michael's living work to justify these bullshit songs is a complete joke!