Michael - The Great Album Debate

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hmmm, i wonder what deep, childhood memory inspired the lyrics "mama got you in a zig zag" or "they'll eat your soul like a vegetable?" maybe sam has some ideas?

Sorry, I'm not enough of a genius to understand what the King of Pop would mean by such garbage. We need to take this to Einstein...

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It sounds exactly like a Michael Jackson impersonator. Of whom we are all familiar. Not 'like him'. Exactly the same as him.

Either way, fans slating off Michael's living work to justify these bullshit songs is a complete joke!

I have to say, and run the risk of being shot down that in terms of songs, then BN & Monster are better than some songs on Invincible e.g. Privacy or Don't Walk Away.

However, that's a moot point as it's like saying some songs on the last Black Eyed Peas album are better than some songs on Invincible as it's not comparing Mike with Mike.

I'm no huge Invincible fan, it's by far the worst out of all the MJ solo albums but there are some great songs on there, Whatever Happens, Threatened, Unbreakable, Butterflies for example.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This whole deification of MJ is something I don't go for. MJ has recorded a LOT of terrible songs, with terrible lyrics. Come on now. Not a single soul on this forum -- or indeed anywhere -- would remember let alone still listen to Invincible, if it had been released by, say, Brandy, which it totally could have been considering MJ barely wrote anything for it.

If there was no controversy surrounding the Cascios, you'd all be in love with their songs on the album -- and ironically, moderate fans like myself would then probably have to remind you that they're not THAT good.

Deification? What are you talking about? None of us is saying Michael Jackson is God. We are just saying Michael Jackson hardly recorded one terrible song, let alone LOTS of terrible songs. One might argue Privacy is the worst Michael Jackson song. But, to me, when I compare Privacy to Monster and Breaking News (songs share similar theme), I found Privacy to be far superior vacally and lyrically.

If Michael Jackson had so many terrible songs like you suggested, why he's considered one of the greatest artists ever? Music is the only aspect in Michael's life even his harshest critics cannot trash him for. Michael Jackson was a musical genius. Period. Seriously, what Michael Jackson songs you consider terrible? Off the Wall, Thriller, BAD, Dangerous and HIStory are what I call template of perfect album of popular music. Other artist can only dream of having an album the caliber of a Michael Jackson album. Michael Jackson's back catalog is as good as any artist can ever dream of.

Now, on a Michael Jackson fan forum, we have a fan who claimed one of the greatest artist ever lived recorded lots of terrible songs. Absolutely unbelievable! If he had so many terrible songs, why are you a fan to begin with? Please stop bringing down Michael Jackson's back catalog to justify the lousiness of the Cascio tracks.

One of the reasons why this discussion is still on-going is becasue many of us think the Cascio tracks are unusually weak per Michael Jackson standard. If Michael Jackson had that many terrible songs, many of us would simply accept that these tracks are just another bad recordings done by Michael. However, so many of us have never heard of Michael Jackson songs in such low quality sonically, vocally and lyrically.

You are grossly wrong with your stance on Invincible. If Invincible was released by Brandy, or Usher or Justin Timberlake. Invincible would be hailed as a major breakthrough. People have unbelievably high standard for Michael Jackson (myself included, I'm spoiled by him. I expect more from his music.) And, Invincible lives up to my expectation. Butterflies is a song only Michael Jackson can make it work. Speechless is another Michael Jackson classic. The potential of Threatened was unfairly taken away by Sony. It puzzles me how people enjoy trashing Invincible. But, it simply further proves that Michael Jackson's standard is sky high and he made good music, not terrible music.

On the other hand, if Stay, All I Need and Keep Your Head Up are released by Brandy, or Usher or Justin Timberlake. I'd enjoy the songs for what they are - songs released by popular artists who are not in the same league of Michael Jackson.

1- No, they're not unusually weak. They're run-of-the-mill pop lyrics, neither better nor worse than most of the stuff on most pop songs.

2- What insulting remark are you talking about again?

3- I'll answer 3 based on 2.

The insulting remark I refer to is the line "Monster. He's a monster. He's an animal." No, it's not straightforward cursing, but calling someone an animal is equivalent to calling someone a motherfucker.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The insulting remark I refer to is the line "Monster. He's a monster. He's an animal." No, it's not straightforward cursing, but calling someone an animal is equivalent to calling someone a motherfucker.

I think you were doing well until this point!

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have to say, and run the risk of being shot down that in terms of songs, then BN & Monster are better than some songs on Invincible e.g. Privacy or Don't Walk Away.

However, that's a moot point as it's like saying some songs on the last Black Eyed Peas album are better than some songs on Invincible as it's not comparing Mike with Mike.

I'm no huge Invincible fan, it's by far the worst out of all the MJ solo albums but there are some great songs on there, Whatever Happens, Threatened, Unbreakable, Butterflies for example.

I've already said on here that I think Privacy is a terrible song. And we know he recorded better stuff around that time and chose not to add them to the album - STTR, for example. Don't Walk Away is one of the best songs of his career, in my opinion.

I believe he deliberately withheld his best stuff from Sony towards the end - the Blood on the Dancefloor album, for example, was an album compiled together in an effort to get him out of his contract, hence only the few new songs.

Breaking News is a joke. Monster is a joke. KYHU is a disgusting joke.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Actually, "love is a donut" had meaning to michael. In (was it Moonwalk? i can't remember) some interview he talked about how Joe was really strict but some of the little things he did made michael feel loved, like that time he always talks about when his dad lifted him up onto a pony at the fair, or how Joe always brought home glazed DONUTS on sunday morning because they were michael's favorite . . .

so in his case, love actually IS a donut and that meant something to him. Hmmm, i wonder what deep, childhood memory inspired the lyrics "mama got you in a zig zag" or "they'll eat your soul like a vegetable?" maybe sam has some ideas?

Thank you for pointing the donut reference out. Yes, when I heard the Who Is It demo for the first time, I thought of the donut story.

Michael wanted his father's love so bad. To him, donut means love from Joe.

I wonder how many people know that.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think you were doing well until this point!

Yeah... I lost my temper. Some posts just got to my nerves. I wish I'm more like Mike, but it's tough sometimes.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I've already said on here that I think Privacy is a terrible song. And we know he recorded better stuff around that time and chose not to add them to the album - STTR, for example. Don't Walk Away is one of the best songs of his career, in my opinion.

I believe he deliberately withheld his best stuff from Sony towards the end - the Blood on the Dancefloor album, for example, was an album compiled together in an effort to get him out of his contract, hence only the few new songs.

Breaking News is a joke. Monster is a joke. KYHU is a disgusting joke.

Michael was too much of a perfectionist to purposely release below par material. There's no way he would release songs that he thought were second rate. I believe he thought Invincible was a great album that would sell 30 million.

I have other beliefs about Michael in that period but probably best not to voice them here. Like others have said, had JT or others released Invincible it would be regarded as much more of a success. However when you're comparing an album to the greatest albums of all time it inevitably comes off second rate unless it's bloody perfect.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The questions you ask aren't even relavent - the only thing that matters is whether the vocals sound like MJ. Obviously people have different opinions on that - but thats all they are, opinions.

I have to disagree with you. Vocal is not the only thing that matters. Meloday is important. Lyric is importnat. Michael Jackson was both great song-writter and great vocalist. When he was a child, he already said, "I don't sing it if I don't mean it." He's not a Celine Dion or a Mariah Carey. Michael Jackson wrote Billie Jean, Earth Song, TDCAU and many other great songs with great message.

I cannot imagine words like "monster. he's a moster. he's an animal" or "mama say mama get you in a zig zag" coming our from Michale Jackson's mouth. I just cannot picture it.

 

[donalb]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When Michael Jackson died, I was in the middle of an exotic vacation in Thailand. I first became aware that something might be wrong when I overheard two Flemish speakers talking about Michael Jackson and John Lenon during one of our expeditions. Although I didn't understand the conversation, my instinct told me that something was terribly wrong. For the rest of the day, I tried not to think about it. I avoided the tv in the hotel and had a very quite dinner. Despite my concerns, I just wanted everything to be ok. It wasn't until the folllowing day that my fears were confirmed. While flipping through the tv stations in my room, a picture of Michael Jackson suddenly appeared with the year of his birth and death. Although I was very overcome with emotion, the news did not come as a complete shock given my uneasy feelings. This is similar to my reaction when I first heard the Cascio songs. Although my instinct told me something was very wrong with the vocals, I didn't want to believe it. I bought the CD the first day it came out and convinced others to do so. I just wanted everything to be ok and for Michael to be back on top again. Unfortunately, the uneasy feelings I had about the songs only got worse until the day when I finally accepted the fact that these songs are not sung by Michael Jackson. Again, I was overcome with emotion and sadness but not shock. I hope that others with similar uneasy feelings about these songs will trust their instincts and come to accept them for what they are.

 

[moonwalkingsteve]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have to disagree with you. Vocal is not the only thing that matters. Meloday is important. Lyric is importnat. Michael Jackson was both great song-writter and great vocalist. When he was a child, he already said, "I don't sing it if I don't mean it." He's not a Celine Dion or a Mariah Carey. Michael Jackson wrote Billie Jean, Earth Song, TDCAU and many other great songs with great message.

I cannot imagine words like "monster. he's a moster. he's an animal" or "mama say mama get you in a zig zag" coming our from Michale Jackson's mouth. I just cannot picture it.

I can picture these words coming out of MJs mouth so it that sense our opinions differ. I dont see that its too much a stretch to go from 'bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go, just enough to make your juices flow' to 'maam say mama got you in a zig zag' particularly if the later is a holding lyric because MJ had the melody and he would go back and change the lines with different lyrics later on.

i dont think words like he's a monster he's an animal are insulting - they are just descriptive words and they are not aimed at anyone in particular. Unlike DS lyrics which are clearly aimed at one man and talk about his mother not teaching him right and his brother with the kkk.

I believe MJ was human and therefore capable of kindness, anger, love hate and all the emotions that come with humanity. I believe he was capable of wonderful things and bad things because thats what humans do. He was a wonderful person but perfectly capable of uttering some strange lyrics in a song.

As i say we have differing opinions neither likely to convince the other.

 

[Arklove]

I dont see that its too much a stretch to go from 'bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go, just enough to make your juices flow' to 'maam say mama got you in a zig zag'

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty convinced that 2000 Watts is about sex. It's chock-full of insinuation. Which, if true, proves (once again) that Michael Jackson is a genius

JUST sayin'

Bass note (the man) treble (the woman) stereo control (desire) how low you go just about enough to make your juices flow (heat things up to turn you on)
Press play (Foreplay) don't stop. Rotate (Guy on top, girl on top) Too Hot! You feel I'm real (Penis Size) I'm everything you need so tell me what's the deal? (Girl stops suddenly)
Release two or three (C*m-loads) When I reach, I can go until I hit my peak (When he tries, he can go for a looooonnnnggg time til he "hits his peak")
Highpost Lady (Prostitute) Shorty(Some random girl he met and has feelings for) Really wanna be there for me? (He likes commitment when he has sex)
2000 watts 8 ohms 200volts, real strong (Refering to his stamina) too much of that, fuse blown (if he keeps his strong rhythm he comes too fast.)
Be careful what you say don't overload (He doesn't like girls that talk too dirty, just enough to turn him on, talking dirty too much is a turn off.)
3D, (threesome!?!?!) high speed, (banging her fast) feedback(How good the sex was), Dolby(He's big, I mean real big)
Release two or three, (c*mloads) when I reach I can go ‘til I hit my peak(When he tries, he can go for hours or days)
Compact steelo, (#$%&/sextoy) chico(him), D-Lo(Also known as downlow), highpost lady(prostitute)
Shorty really wanna be there for me (means he likes commitment before having sex)



And, I'll be damned if I could figure out what the fcuk 'mama say mama got you in a zig zag' or 'they eat your soul like a vegetable' means.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I can picture these words coming out of MJs mouth so it that sense our opinions differ. I dont see that its too much a stretch to go from 'bass note, treble, stereo control, how low you go, just enough to make your juices flow' to 'maam say mama got you in a zig zag' particularly if the later is a holding lyric because MJ had the melody and he would go back and change the lines with different lyrics later on.

i dont think words like he's a monster he's an animal are insulting - they are just descriptive words and they are not aimed at anyone in particular. Unlike DS lyrics which are clearly aimed at one man and talk about his mother not teaching him right and his brother with the kkk.

I believe MJ was human and therefore capable of kindness, anger, love hate and all the emotions that come with humanity. I believe he was capable of wonderful things and bad things because thats what humans do. He was a wonderful person but perfectly capable of uttering some strange lyrics in a song.

As i say we have differing opinions neither likely to convince the other.

Somebody calls you an 'animal' and a 'monster', what would you answer to him/her?


Besides, the D.S. song that has been mentioned is the only song where Michael treated someone as a dog (with a very good reason--knowing first what Thomas Sneddon did to him, and second, Sneddon's nickname IS 'Mad Dog', check it out for yourself).


Furthermore, Ladi Di died in the accident because of papparazis -- Michael lectures them in 'Privacy', he doesn't insult them, nor anyone else. Michael, to my recollection never ever insulted in a song or called names. And the rare occasions he maybe did was always indirect, but never direct, straightforward or categorized. Michael never fell into the trap to categorize people and insult them because of their job.


p.s. I relistened to D.S., unless I missed some lyrics, I didn't find where exactly Michael calls him a dog?

p.p.s. The song 'Privacy' is a perfect rock song and should be listened as such, I don't understand how can anyone say that 'Privacy' is terrible. The guitar is heavy, his voice is rocky, it's a masterpiece! Listen to other rock songs and you'll hear it for yourself, the husky and rocky voice is meant to be. Too bad he didn't do it like that on "Give in to me" rather than hitting too high notes.

 

[moonwalkingsteve]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Somebody calls you an 'animal' and a 'monster', what would you answer to him/her?


Besides, the D.S. song that has been mentioned is the only song where Michael treated someone as a dog (with a very good reason--knowing first what Thomas Sneddon did to him, and second, Sneddon's nickname IS 'Mad Dog', check it out for yourself).


Furthermore, Ladi Di died in the accident because of papparazis -- Michael lectures them in 'Privacy', he doesn't insult them, nor anyone else. Michael, to my recollection never ever insulted in a song or called names. And the rare occasions he maybe did was always indirect, but never direct, straightforward or categorized. Michael never fell into the trap to categorize people and insult them because of their job.


p.s. I relistened to D.S., unless I missed some lyrics, I didn't find where exactly Michael calls him a dog?

At no point did i say michael calls him a dog, i just used it as an example of a song where mj says something that would'nt be considered kind.

Using the lyrics 'hes a monster, he's an animal' in a song is not some terribly insulting lyric - it isnt aimed at anyone in particular and isn't strong enough to get an 'explicit content' sticker on the album.

The point i'm trying to make is that it is not impossible that MJ would sing those lyrics and it does not make for convincing evidence that this is not an MJ song. No one here can say what MJ would or would not do in the future, peoples future actions are not dictated solely from their past actions. Mj changed as an artist and as a man just as anyone else would so to predict his next lyric or next melody is ridiculous.

i have made my point and you do not agree with it, thats fine you are entitled to your opinion. all i will say is that what some people may say is 'fact' on this forum, is in most cases just opinion.

For the record:

Breaking News - first time i heard breaking news i thought it was MJ, only after reading how everything kicked off on the forum did i begin to analyse the song. I can understand peoples concerns because the vocals dont sound as powerful as a fully completed MJ record but i put that down to it being a demo. So all in all i was comfortable with the song being an MJ song.

Keep your Head up - again first impression was that it was MJ - again prompted by this forum i analysed further and thought a few notes sounded off - again put it down to being a demo. my g/f is adamant its him and thinks im silly questioning.

monster - the one i have most issue with - something sounds off. not lyrically but vocally. reminds me of 2000 watts in that it sounds like an altered version of his voice. sped up and heightened as opposed to lowered as in 2000 watts

my opinion

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Somebody calls you an 'animal' and a 'monster', what would you answer to him/her?


Besides, the D.S. song that has been mentioned is the only song where Michael treated someone as a dog (with a very good reason--knowing first what Thomas Sneddon did to him, and second, Sneddon's nickname IS 'Mad Dog', check it out for yourself).


Furthermore, Ladi Di died in the accident because of papparazis -- Michael lectures them in 'Privacy', he doesn't insult them, nor anyone else. Michael, to my recollection never ever insulted in a song or called names. And the rare occasions he maybe did was always indirect, but never direct, straightforward or categorized. Michael never fell into the trap to categorize people and insult them because of their job.

Yep. :yes:

p.p.s. The song 'Privacy' is a perfect rock song and should be listened as such, I don't understand how can anyone say that 'Privacy' is terrible. The guitar is heavy, his voice is rocky, it's a masterpiece! Listen to other rock songs and you'll hear it for yourself, the husky and rocky voice is meant to be. Too bad he didn't do it like that on "Give in to me" rather than hitting too high notes.

I don't understand people's issue with Invincible. It may not be his greatest; nevertheless, an album with good song after good song.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty convinced that 2000 Watts is about sex. It's chock-full of insinuation. Which, if true, proves (once again) that Michael Jackson is a genius

JUST sayin'

Bass note (the man) treble (the woman) stereo control (desire) how low you go just about enough to make your juices flow (heat things up to turn you on)
Press play (Foreplay) don't stop. Rotate (Guy on top, girl on top) Too Hot! You feel I'm real (Penis Size) I'm everything you need so tell me what's the deal? (Girl stops suddenly)
Release two or three (C*m-loads) When I reach, I can go until I hit my peak (When he tries, he can go for a looooonnnnggg time til he "hits his peak")
Highpost Lady (Prostitute) Shorty(Some random girl he met and has feelings for) Really wanna be there for me? (He likes commitment when he has sex)
2000 watts 8 ohms 200volts, real strong (Refering to his stamina) too much of that, fuse blown (if he keeps his strong rhythm he comes too fast.)
Be careful what you say don't overload (He doesn't like girls that talk too dirty, just enough to turn him on, talking dirty too much is a turn off.)
3D, (threesome!?!?!) high speed, (banging her fast) feedback(How good the sex was), Dolby(He's big, I mean real big)
Release two or three, (c*mloads) when I reach I can go ‘til I hit my peak(When he tries, he can go for hours or days)
Compact steelo, (#$%&/sextoy) chico(him), D-Lo(Also known as downlow), highpost lady(prostitute)
Shorty really wanna be there for me (means he likes commitment before having sex)



And, I'll be damned if I could figure out what the fcuk 'mama say mama got you in a zig zag' or 'they eat your soul like a vegetable' means.

I'm shocked

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Somebody calls you an 'animal' and a 'monster', what would you answer to him/her?


Besides, the D.S. song that has been mentioned is the only song where Michael treated someone as a dog (with a very good reason--knowing first what Thomas Sneddon did to him, and second, Sneddon's nickname IS 'Mad Dog', check it out for yourself).


Furthermore, Ladi Di died in the accident because of papparazis -- Michael lectures them in 'Privacy', he doesn't insult them, nor anyone else. Michael, to my recollection never ever insulted in a song or called names. And the rare occasions he maybe did was always indirect, but never direct, straightforward or categorized. Michael never fell into the trap to categorize people and insult them because of their job.


p.s. I relistened to D.S., unless I missed some lyrics, I didn't find where exactly Michael calls him a dog?

p.p.s. The song 'Privacy' is a perfect rock song and should be listened as such, I don't understand how can anyone say that 'Privacy' is terrible. The guitar is heavy, his voice is rocky, it's a masterpiece! Listen to other rock songs and you'll hear it for yourself, the husky and rocky voice is meant to be. Too bad he didn't do it like that on "Give in to me" rather than hitting too high notes.

Maybe I'm mishearing, but ocassionaly you can hear him say "go on you dog!" (4:07) and "Go'n boy!" (1:29, 2:48) and other things like that.

Also, from 4:06 onwards he does, what sounds like to me, a "ruff ruff ruff" sound with his mouth, like a dog. Could just be me though

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

At no point did i say michael calls him a dog, i just used it as an example of a song where mj says something that would'nt be considered kind.

Using the lyrics 'hes a monster, he's an animal' in a song is not some terribly insulting lyric - it isnt aimed at anyone in particular and isn't strong enough to get an 'explicit content' sticker on the album.

The point i'm trying to make is that it is not impossible that MJ would sing those lyrics and it does not make for convincing evidence that this is not an MJ song. No one here can say what MJ would or would not do in the future, peoples future actions are not dictated solely from their past actions. Mj changed as an artist and as a man just as anyone else would so to predict his next lyric or next melody is ridiculous.

i have made my point and you do not agree with it, thats fine you are entitled to your opinion. all i will say is that what some people may say is 'fact' on this forum, is in most cases just opinion.

For the record:

Breaking News - first time i heard breaking news i thought it was MJ, only after reading how everything kicked off on the forum did i begin to analyse the song. I can understand peoples concerns because the vocals dont sound as powerful as a fully completed MJ record but i put that down to it being a demo. So all in all i was comfortable with the song being an MJ song.

Keep your Head up - again first impression was that it was MJ - again prompted by this forum i analysed further and thought a few notes sounded off - again put it down to being a demo. my g/f is adamant its him and thinks im silly questioning.

monster - the one i have most issue with - something sounds off. not lyrically but vocally. reminds me of 2000 watts in that it sounds like an altered version of his voice. sped up and heightened as opposed to lowered as in 2000 watts

my opinion

I didn't say you called him a dog. Actually someone else said that in a post. So I relistened to the song but couldn't find where.

As far as monster is concerned, yes, it is aimed at journalists-papparazis. If not who is "he"?

I'm sorry but calling someone an animal is an insult. It is diminishing and reduceing the person to his basic instincts.

Calling someone a monster is describing his personality. There is nothing positive in calling someone a monster, just before calling him an animal. I'm sorry, this is not Mike's style at all in none of his songs.

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe I'm mishearing, but ocassionaly you can hear him say "go on you dog!" (4:07) and "Go'n boy!" (1:29, 2:48) and other things like that.

not 100% sure, but i think when michael says boy, he's referring to himself. derogatory way to refer to black men. not that michael's being derogatory towards himself, he's just saying that the whole situation with tom sneddon was partly racially motivated so he's flipping it

and arklove you crack me up . . . it's still too early in the day for me to be reading posts like THAT it just got very pg-13 up in here LOL!!

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

not 100% sure, but i think when michael says boy, he's referring to himself. derogatory way to refer to black men. not that michael's being derogatory towards himself, he's just saying that the whole situation with tom sneddon was partly racially motivated so he's flipping it

That's true

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe I'm mishearing, but ocassionaly you can hear him say "go on you dog!" (4:07) and "Go'n boy!" (1:29, 2:48) and other things like that.

Also, from 4:06 onwards he does, what sounds like to me, a "ruff ruff ruff" sound with his mouth, like a dog. Could just be me though

Fair enough, but the fact is that Tom Sneddon's nickname actually is 'Mad Dog'. So it is nothing surprising to see a reference to a dog, if there is one, in that song.

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Fair enough, but the fact is that Tom Sneddon's nickname actually is 'Mad Dog'. So it is nothing surprising to see a reference to a dog, if there is one, in that song.

Oh wow, I didn't know that lol.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Oh wow, I didn't know that lol.

Tom Sneddon grew up in California. In 1963 Sneddon graduated from the University of Notre Dame, where he was on the boxing team; and in 1966 from UCLA Law School, where he met his wife.
From 1967-1969, during the Vietnam War, Tom Sneddon was in the U.S. Army.
From November 1969 until May 1977 Tom Sneddon served as a Deputy District Attorney in Santa Barbara County. In 1977, he was promoted to the position of Supervisor of Criminal Operations.
On January 3, 1983, Tom Sneddon became the 33rd District Attorney of Santa Barbara County and has been re-elected without opposition for 5 terms.
A father of 9 children, Tom Sneddon has a track record of being involved in children and family issues. He was Chair of the Committee for Child Support Enforcement since its inception in 1991. He was presented with a "Director's Award" in 1995 by the California Family Support Council. A year later he was appointed co-chair of the National District Attorney's Child Support Committee and invited by the US Attorney General Janet Reno to be a member of the Presidential Commission's Federal Task Force to review and enhance federal criminal prosecutions for failure to pay child support.
Sneddon's court-room style won him the nickname, 'Mad Dog' early in his career, although more recently, according to reports, he has been nicknamed 'Snuffy.'
Tom Sneddon's attitude in the Michael Jackson case attracted criticism. In the past he has been attacked as hot-tempered, to which Sneddon responded: "I've been in this business now for 33 years, so clearly there were times when I was probably developing my skills and personality in the courtroom and maybe at times wasn't as controlled as I am now. Sure, once in a while defense attorneys do things that tick you off. But I know, having played competitive sports, that if you allow that to influence you for very long, you lose your concentration and lose your game. I believe I've always been in control over everything I've done in a courtroom and if you talked to the judges, I think they'd say I'm a damned good lawyer."


source: http://www.biogs.com/famous/sneddon.html

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

not 100% sure, but i think when michael says boy, he's referring to himself. derogatory way to refer to black men. not that michael's being derogatory towards himself, he's just saying that the whole situation with tom sneddon was partly racially motivated so he's flipping it

and arklove you crack me up . . . it's still too early in the day for me to be reading posts like THAT it just got very pg-13 up in here LOL!!

i love that 2000 watts lyrics interpretation thou. h34r:

i think the song is very sexy, with that husky manly deep voice of michael.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty convinced that 2000 Watts is about sex. It's chock-full of insinuation. Which, if true, proves (once again) that Michael Jackson is a genius

JUST sayin'

Bass note (the man) treble (the woman) stereo control (desire) how low you go just about enough to make your juices flow (heat things up to turn you on)
Press play (Foreplay) don't stop. Rotate (Guy on top, girl on top) Too Hot! You feel I'm real (Penis Size) I'm everything you need so tell me what's the deal? (Girl stops suddenly)
Release two or three (C*m-loads) When I reach, I can go until I hit my peak (When he tries, he can go for a looooonnnnggg time til he "hits his peak")
Highpost Lady (Prostitute) Shorty(Some random girl he met and has feelings for) Really wanna be there for me? (He likes commitment when he has sex)
2000 watts 8 ohms 200volts, real strong (Refering to his stamina) too much of that, fuse blown (if he keeps his strong rhythm he comes too fast.)
Be careful what you say don't overload (He doesn't like girls that talk too dirty, just enough to turn him on, talking dirty too much is a turn off.)
3D, (threesome!?!?!) high speed, (banging her fast) feedback(How good the sex was), Dolby(He's big, I mean real big)
Release two or three, (c*mloads) when I reach I can go ‘til I hit my peak(When he tries, he can go for hours or days)
Compact steelo, (#$%&/sextoy) chico(him), D-Lo(Also known as downlow), highpost lady(prostitute)
Shorty really wanna be there for me (means he likes commitment before having sex)



And, I'll be damned if I could figure out what the fcuk 'mama say mama got you in a zig zag' or 'they eat your soul like a vegetable' means.

i love that 2000 watts lyrics interpretation thou. h34r:

i think the song is very sexy, with that husky manly deep voice of michael.

And I'm sayin' that both of you are pervert

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And I'm sayin' that both of you are pervert

i have lots of fun being a mj perv. hee hee hee...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

i have lots of fun being a mj perv. hee hee hee...

[youtube]k9w_DT90cm8&annotation_id=annotation_614760[/youtube]

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

i have lots of fun being a mj perv. hee hee hee...

It's a healthy obsession I have no problem admitting that

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

2000 Watts is clearly a metaphor for sex - great post Arklove - and the 'dog' reference is clearly a reference to 'Mad Dog' Sneddon.

Tony R - Michael was a perfectionist, no question. But just watch what he says at that MJ Day where he destroys Sony. What does he say about the upcoming 'boxset'? I'm paraphrasing but he effectively says 'They want to release a boxset with a couple of new songs... I can give them any old songs' which he says with a flip of his hand. And the crowd applauds.

He wanted out. And just like George Michael and Prince before him, he deliberately made life difficult for his record company in the end. George effectively sabotaged his own career in order to break from Sony. Prince released a vault-album with incoherent tracks as his final album with Warners.

So, yes, he was a perfectionist. But he knew he was being screwed so played hardball.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

2000 Watts is clearly a metaphor for sex - great post Arklove - and the 'dog' reference is clearly a reference to 'Mad Dog' Sneddon.

Tony R - Michael was a perfectionist, no question. But just watch what he says at that MJ Day where he destroys Sony. What does he say about the upcoming 'boxset'? I'm paraphrasing but he effectively says 'They want to release a boxset with a couple of new songs... I can give them any old songs' which he says with a flip of his hand. And the crowd applauds.

He wanted out. And just like George Michael and Prince before him, he deliberately made life difficult for his record company in the end. George effectively sabotaged his own career in order to break from Sony. Prince released a vault-album with incoherent tracks as his final album with Warners.

So, yes, he was a perfectionist. But he knew he was being screwed so played hardball.

I don't know, I still can't see him purposely diluting an otherwise immaculate back catalogue. Maybe cutting off his nose to spite his face is the wrong expression, but it fits this case.