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Michael - The Great Album Debate

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
The Estate can indeed not be involved, but it doesn't mean that they weren't fooled. And the same goes for the experts.
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I already added that

and then you are left with two possible results

- as they passed a legitimate evaluation they are really authentic - they are Michael.
- they were able to fool a legitimate evaluation - therefore there's no way to prove it's not Michael.

Either possibility doesn't look that good for doubters.

The Estate is however responsible for their strategy. As I said, Branca is maybe a very good businessman, but without Michael he's short sighted to such an extent that he couldn't predict how much these songs would harm some fans,... well a big number of fans. He just opted to go by what experts say. Furthermore, if he really wanted to make some kind of damage control, he'd better release some details regarding the analyses. There's no reason to keep them secret, unless he is hiding something from the public.
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I think people moved on , including Jacksons from this issue. this is one of the few threads and you are the only few that is still remaining focused on this issue.

edited to add: You may not agree with their strategy - well even I don't agree with it to some extent but I think they have a consistent silence or 1 statement / silence approach in all matters. They did the same thing in this instance as well , even asked Teddy to stop talking. Right or wrong, I think that was their decision and they would stick to it.
 
ivy said:
I already added that

and then you are left with two possible results

- as they passed a legitimate evaluation they are really authentic - they are Michael.
- they were able to fool a legitimate evaluation - therefore there's no way to prove it's not Michael.
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I also already said there are two possibilites and not more:

-either something is wrong with our listening capacities
-or there is a big problem with those tracks (be it a soundalike or not)

ivy said:
Either possibility doesn't look that good for doubters.
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Except if they're proven to be fake. Then it wouldn't look good for the believers.



ivy said:
I think people moved on , including Jacksons from this issue. this is one of the few threads and you are the only few that is still remaining focused on this issue.
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The Jacksons may have moved on, I really don't know, nor do I actually feel concerned about their views.
However, I don't think that people moved on. They are not necessarily here in this forum, but all around. And I can bet if there are future Cascio releases it'll re-ignite not only the debate about the newly released tracks, but back to this very topic about the 3 songs. Don't forget taht many people haven't heard all the leaks yet. Imagine the day they'll be released.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Except if they're proven to be fake. Then it wouldn't look good for the believers.
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I think my "doesn't look good for doubters" comment is misunderstood. I meant if it was the two possibilities real or such a good fake to fool legitimate evaluation, it didn't look good because then the doubters hope of "proving them fake" would be totally shot. It seems to be the recent hope with the lawsuits and such and that's why I said "it doesn't look good". It wasn't aimed to their beliefs, opinions or hearing.

your "proven fake , don't look good to believers" is a jab at believers hearing ability / opinions/ beliefs - which is a kind of a unneeded insult. Remember this is not a who is right / wrong debate and the believers aren't the people that faked the songs ( if it's proven to be fake). I would think if they are proven to be fake, it wouldn't look good to whomever faked them.
 
ivy said:
I think my "doesn't look good for doubters" comment is misunderstood. I meant if it was the two possibilities real or such a good fake to fool legitimate evaluation, it didn't look good because then the doubters hope of "proving them fake" would be totally shot. It seems to be the recent hope with the lawsuits and such and that's why I said "it doesn't look good". It wasn't aimed to their beliefs or hearing.

your "proven fake , don't look good to believers" is a jab at believers hearing ability - which is a kind of a unneeded insult. Remember this is not a who is right , wrong debate and the believers aren't the people that faked the songs ( if it's proven to be fake). I would think if they are proven to be fake, it wouldn't look good to whomever faked them.
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Oh come on! I wasn't insulting. It wasn't a jab. Even if I did misunderstand your part of the comment, I didn't call it an insult. All I was saying is that if they're proven fake, it wouldn't look good for the believers because they would be deceived and cheated. Where do you see an insult there?
 
Pentum said:
I understand that you hear "dogging" me, but it's actually "stalking me" like in the album version, only sped up along with some effect over the voice (like in the whole mix).

Listen closely: http://hulkshare.com/kffkzzdi3nul
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Yes, these DJ's used the album version. Sounds like it, only sped up. Isn't that what they usually do also? Why would they use a different version? Don't know how these things usually work, but did they get an assignment or do they offer their mixes to Sony?

And for all who lurk here, one more time :)D) comparisons if you haven't heard them yet (Thanks Stella).

StellaJackson said:
For anyone who hasn't heard them yet, or does not have a copy, here are links to the comparisons showing the true singer of the Cascio tracks, for the 3 album tracks only. There are many more for the other songs but they can't be posted here.

Breaking News: http://soundcloud.com/mjtheuniqueking/jason-malachi-bn

Monster: http://soundcloud.com/mjtheuniqueking/jason-malachi-monster

KYHU: http://soundcloud.com/mjtheuniqueking/jason-malachi-kyhu
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Ivy & Bumber. Thank you both for claifiying your meaning behind your words - Its now Noted that it was a miscommunication between the two of you of what you meant with your words. It easy to do when ones doesnt know the intention in how we phrase things on a message board. I hope neither of you take further offense after its been explained. I really do enjoy your discussions. :)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Oh come on! I wasn't insulting. It wasn't a jab. Even if I did misunderstand your part of the comment, I didn't call it an insult. All I was saying is that if they're proven fake, it wouldn't look good for the believers because they would be deceived and cheated. Where do you see an insult there?
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well it was obvious that you took "it won't look good for the doubters" as "they'll be proven wrong" kinda way, however what I was trying to say was "it doesn't look good for the hopes of proving fraud". Your reply was aimed towards believers in the sense of "they will be proven wrong".

I just wanted to make clear what I meant and this who is right / wrong and people will be embarrassed if they are proven to be wrong is unneeded.

I can tell you that if the songs proven to be fake, I will not be embarrassed or feel like it makes me look bad. As a human I always acknowledged the room for error on my part. It would make whomever lied to me and took advantage of me look bad.

Similarly if the songs proven to be real, it wouldn't be a thing that I would hold it against doubters. As any human they could have been simply mistaken and any shame should fall with the people who led them such path.
 
The tests are irrelevant because a) there is no evidence they ever took place b) the supposed experts would have been paid by sony and sony would have wanted a positive outcome c) they could have done nothing more than asked them their opinion without actually testing anythig. d) as evidenced by bumper, wave testing is highly subjective

And most importantly, they aren't the real experts. We are. We listen to Michael every day. We are fully aware of Jason. They probably didn't even know who Jason was, let alone compare to any of his vocals. Why so much faith is put in some tests which we know nothing about is strange, but I guess people are always inclined to believe that kind of thing.
 
ivy said:
well it was obvious that you took "it won't look good for the doubters" as "they'll be proven wrong" kinda way, however what I was trying to say was "it doesn't look good for the hopes of proving fraud". Your reply was aimed towards believers in the sense of "they will be proven wrong".

I just wanted to make clear what I meant and this who is right / wrong and people will be embarrassed if they are proven to be wrong is unneeded.

I can tell you that if the songs proven to be fake, I will not be embarrassed or feel like it makes me look bad. As a human I always acknowledged the room for error on my part. It would make whomever lied to me and took advantage of me look bad.

Similarly if the songs proven to be real, it wouldn't be a thing that I would hold it against doubters. As any human they could have been simply mistaken and any shame should fall with the people who led them such path.
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And I am repeating that you misunderstood my words.

Did I acknowledge that I misunderstood your words? Yes, I did. Did I take your words, despite my misunderstanding, as a an insult, offense, or a jab? Not at all.
I took it rather as an obvious outcome if the tracks were proven to be genuine. I didn't even think about being insulted.

Therefore, why would I insult back, as you state, if I didn't feel insulted. I was talking about the outcome. It really wouldn't look good for the believers if those tracks are proven fake. To me it simply means that the believers would be cheated, deceived and fooled. And there wasn't any connotation of insult or shame behind my words.

I misunderstood your words, and accepted your explanation. Now please stop interpreting my words, and acknowledge that you misunderstood mine and accept my explanation.
 
How incredibly childish.

Anyway, according to Gaz I have been a pivotal part in creating this mess. I am very offended by this. My only concern is Michael and the respect he deserves. I feel a grave injustice has been committed against his music and the fans and I won't sit idly by and keep quiet while people get away with that. I make no apologies for expressing my opinion on this.
 
qbee said:
Ivy & Bumber. Thank you both for claifiying your meaning behind your words - Its now Noted that it was a miscommunication between the two of you of what you meant with your words. It easy to do when ones doesnt know the intention in how we phrase things on a message board. I hope neither of you take further offense after its been explained. I really do enjoy your discussions. :)
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I, too, enjoy discussions between them. ;)
 
I don't feel aimed, 'cuz I know I am not childish.


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Well I feel aimed due to my relatively short answer. However I opted for it to stop further discussion. The more I wrote the longer the discussion would go back and forth and I wanted to drop the issue totally. Furthermore if anyone is to have any issues with my reply to Bumper is Bumper - not Stella.

or Stella is just having an out of blue issue with Gaz. I don't know.
 
ivy said:
Well I feel aimed due to my relatively short answer. However I opted for it to stop further discussion. The more I wrote the longer the discussion would go back and forth and I wanted to drop the issue totally. Furthermore if anyone is to have any issues with my reply to Bumper is Bumper - not Stella.

or Stella is just having an out of blue issue with Gaz. I don't know.
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Ok, I am gonna play some Russian Roulette with a fully loaded machine gun.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
I still hear "doggin" and "stalkin" on it's own in that dance mix.


-Shrugs-
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I think you can hear stalking twice, can't remember. Ask yourself this: Does it make sense fot the DJ to just switch ONE word for a whole mix which you barely notice? I don't think so.

Anyway, no alternative vocals.

Gaz said:
Given you have spun it for your own argument I am not one bit interested in whether your offended,

You cried wolf in blaming others for the division in the community when you are just as much a part of it as those you seem to blame,
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Well, what he is saying is surely correct? It's Sony's fault for the divison because they caused all this by releasing 3 questionable songs. They are the ones to blame. And of course you will be a part of this when you choose to not believe what they released is legit rather than just going along with it..
 
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