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Michael - The Great Album Debate

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Post scriptum:

How many stamps do you need? :D

us-post-office-demotivational-poster-1236119244.jpg
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None, thanks for the offer, but it comes a bit post-momentum. I've already licked and sticked everything.

kopwatcher said:
From 5 Logical Fallacies That Make You More Wrong Than You Think:



http://www.cracked.com/article_1946...at-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think_p2.html

It all seems so familiar.
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Although I'm confident in my belief (that it's not Michael singing the lead and the voice comes very close/sounds identical to Jason Malachi's), I still have that little voice in my head that says: "No, that can't be true, you're making a very dangerous/bold assumption".

Being this outspoken is something I only do when I'm sure about something.

And I hate injustice and that is what's happening here, IMO.
 
Chamife said:
I was standing in the rain makes sense in the context of the song, I'll be standing in the rain, case you etc, etc....doesn't.


Ok, there are worse habits, lol.
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What about "I'll be standing in the rain in case you change your mind" doesn't make sense?

And how is it any different from "I was standing in the rain and I thought about you"?
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
What about "I'll be standing in the rain in case you change your mind" doesn't make sense?

And how is it any different from "I was standing in the rain and I thought about you"?
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I'll try to explain:

I said it doesn't make sense in the context of the song (translated it to the best of my knowledge) but maybe I should have said that it is unlogical and unnecessary he lets the girl know he is standing in the rain in case she changes her mind. You think the girl has an interest to know he's standing in the rain? Maybe he forgot his umbrella and hoped she'd give one to him? :D. It's a bit too overly dramatic, for my taste. (working 2 jobs, a crying baby, wiping the tears away....;D).The rain comes out of the blue and adds nothing.

In the Luther Vandross song, it is logical (makes sense?) because he mentions all the things he does whilst thinking of her. One of those things is standing in the rain. He thinks about her all the time. He adds a whole list to give us an impression about how he feels and tries to make us feel his state of mind.
 
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^ isn't that particular lyric from 'Stay' and not 'Keep Your Head Up'?

Either way, it seems so random...And not really thought out very well..
 
Arklove said:
^ isn't that particular lyric from 'Stay' and not 'Keep Your Head Up'?

Either way, it seems so random...And not really thought out very well..
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Yes, it's from Stay and I added the lyrics from KYHU, because it has the same (leaving nothing to the imagination) drama (IMO).
 
Right, we're approaching 1500 pages and enough is enough. If the fans here have no interest in getting mobilised, I'm permanently handing in my MJ forum card after 10 years. I've seen the community rally against (and sometimes reverse) some pretty big injustices in the past and the relative apathy I'm seeing is frustrating. I'm bored of coming here seeing the same old arguments that help no-one so I will be nullifying my account so I cannot login even if I'm tempted to (seeing as accounts cannot be deleted). There IS a problem - FACT, whether you believe in the songs or not.

I've been speaking to Arklove, and the worst thing that can happen is for things to settle down, and for the album to become "established". This issue needs to be visible to everyone, not just hardcore fans on a particular thread on a message board. That's why I've been trying to raise awareness through the FakeMichael site (however MJJC won't let me say too much), because I don't know what else to do.

We can't let people forget because it sets a dangerous precedent for future releases. Spending our efforts arguing with "believers" is next to useless - it's just egotistical point scoring. All the arguments have been made and the videos have been done to death. If you want to try and make a difference you're not going to do it by trying to convince people here. It has to be about getting the message out there and keeping it out there, preferably getting it back in the mainstream media because currently it's all forgotten about. That's ALL we can do.

If you have an issue with what I've said, great, I don't care - I won't be around from 1/1/2012 to see it.
 
kopwatcher said:
Right, we're approaching 1500 pages and enough is enough. If the fans here have no interest in getting mobilised, I'm permanently handing in my MJ forum card after 10 years. I've seen the community rally against (and sometimes reverse) some pretty big injustices in the past and the relative apathy I'm seeing is frustrating. I'm bored of coming here seeing the same old arguments that help no-one so I will be nullifying my account so I cannot login even if I'm tempted to (seeing as accounts cannot be deleted). There IS a problem - FACT, whether you believe in the songs or not.

I've been speaking to Arklove, and the worst thing that can happen is for things to settle down, and for the album to become "established". This issue needs to be visible to everyone, not just hardcore fans on a particular thread on a message board. That's why I've been trying to raise awareness through the FakeMichael site (however MJJC won't let me say too much), because I don't know what else to do.

We can't let people forget because it sets a dangerous precedent for future releases. Spending our efforts arguing with "believers" is next to useless - it's just egotistical point scoring. All the arguments have been made and the videos have been done to death. If you want to try and make a difference you're not going to do it by trying to convince people here. It has to be about getting the message out there and keeping it out there, preferably getting it back in the mainstream media because currently it's all forgotten about. That's ALL we can do.

If you have an issue with what I've said, great, I don't care - I won't be around from 1/1/2012 to see it.
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Kopwatcher, I understand your frustration, but I really don't think that spamming is a good method. If you spam you risk to have a very negative reaction from people who feel spammed.

This forum is a good platform to exchange some info and also to know what are believers' arguments, fakemichael.com is good to archive audio files and twitter messages, etc.

Untill we don't get some extra info, there's nothing we can do so far. We have too little proof. The big issue is that the Estate recognized those tracks as Michael's.
 
^ yes but those arguments are pigeon-holed into one section to a limited number of members...general public and guests don't have access...the arguments are great, but with no one to see them, they go nowhere..

I understand both of you though....
 
Arklove said:
^ yes but those arguments are pigeon-holed into one section to a limited number of members...general public and guests don't have access...the arguments are great, but with no one to see them, they go nowhere..

I understand both of you though....
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Who cares now? The day you have enough proof you will be armed with all arguments that have been evoked and you'll be able to re-use them.
First you gather and pile the info, then you shoot. Shooting with an empty magazine doesn't make you hit the target.
 
^ well, then all we need is proof :D

It's been over a year and we're not gonna get it..
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
First you gather and pile the info, then you shoot. Shooting with an empty magazine doesn't make you hit the target.
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(Before there's any misunderstanding: I'm not addressing you, Bumper)
Wise words. That's why there will be some legal attempts to contest the official word in 2012 which will have some outcome.

Attacking/Ridiculing other fans/degrading them to be deaf/stupid/inexpert and bad-mouthing them for over 12 months now has been a waste of time to those people that allegedly only wanted to prove others wrong.
 
kopwatcher said:
Right, we're approaching 1500 pages and enough is enough. If the fans here have no interest in getting mobilised, I'm permanently handing in my MJ forum card after 10 years. I've seen the community rally against (and sometimes reverse) some pretty big injustices in the past and the relative apathy I'm seeing is frustrating. I'm bored of coming here seeing the same old arguments that help no-one so I will be nullifying my account so I cannot login even if I'm tempted to (seeing as accounts cannot be deleted). There IS a problem - FACT, whether you believe in the songs or not.

I've been speaking to Arklove, and the worst thing that can happen is for things to settle down, and for the album to become "established". This issue needs to be visible to everyone, not just hardcore fans on a particular thread on a message board. That's why I've been trying to raise awareness through the FakeMichael site (however MJJC won't let me say too much), because I don't know what else to do.

We can't let people forget because it sets a dangerous precedent for future releases. Spending our efforts arguing with "believers" is next to useless - it's just egotistical point scoring. All the arguments have been made and the videos have been done to death. If you want to try and make a difference you're not going to do it by trying to convince people here. It has to be about getting the message out there and keeping it out there, preferably getting it back in the mainstream media because currently it's all forgotten about. That's ALL we can do.

If you have an issue with what I've said, great, I don't care - I won't be around from 1/1/2012 to see it.
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Dear Kopwatcher,

I understand how this issue has been emotional for some and almost all of us want this to be over with so any efforts is understood. The point that's perhaps not realized is that posting fakemichael link on MJJC is moot, because everyone here is aware of the issue, discussion, the songs and the comparisons. MJJC also isn't the medium for "general public", MJJC is a place for MJJC members and they can all see this topic.

So I fail to understand your unhappiness towards MJJC if your goal is "general public" and "mass media". It clearly shows that your attempts has to be focused on other places.

As for mobilizing or taking a stand MJJC rarely does that because the reality is that generally our members do not agree on a common action. In the last year there have been some situations that we expressed our unhappiness but even in that instance we never advocated for a boycott. In this topic we don't have a consensus - we have doubters as well as the believers. Furthermore this is also a lot more sensitive topic, because even though people might agree that there is a problem here, some do not want to be a part of an action that would hurt Michael's sales and they would prefer alternative approaches. This is a quite complex situation. We also choose to not force a position on the people that do not agree with it. I think you would not prefer if I said "I'm the admin and my belief is our belief", similarly I wouldn't want something I don't agree with being forced on me.

I would not want anyone to leave the forum for any reason. I can only hope that you won't either.

Arklove said:
^ yes but those arguments are pigeon-holed into one section to a limited number of members...general public and guests don't have access...the arguments are great, but with no one to see them, they go nowhere..

I understand both of you though....
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you might want to consider how many other websites do not allow this discussion at all.
 
Korgnex said:
(Before there's any misunderstanding: I'm not addressing you, Bumper)
Wise words. That's why there will be some legal attempts to contest the official word in 2012 which will have some outcome.
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First let me say I don't know the details of the lawsuits or the laws of the countries involved but

don't promise outcomes.

Everyone can file a lawsuit , a complaint. It doesn't mean that it would see inside the court.

As far as I know Sony versus fans is a lawsuit about stealing. Although I have heard the mention of "it ain't Michael" defense. that lawsuit is not about authenticity. I'm assuming the second lawsuit is actually the "it ain't Michael" defense - a counter complaint. Feel free to fill me in about the details :)
 
Chamife said:
I was standing in the rain makes sense in the context of the song, I'll be standing in the rain, case you etc, etc....doesn't.


Ok, there are worse habits, lol.
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I mean I try to listen to other music but I just can't.

I sometimes listen to Bruno Mars, Lady GaGa, and R.Kelly but then I go straight to MJ again.
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
I mean I try to listen to other music and I just can't I can listen to Bruno Mars, Lady GaGa, and R.Kelly sometimes but then I go straight to MJ.
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There is much more than pre-fabricated music. Internet is a great tool. Look around and you'll find plenty of music geniouses worldwide.
 
If the Cascio Controvesy doesnt end, Michaels legacy will be stained with the tracks. Michael or not, we obv. have an issue with them and i think its time we make Eddie prove to us without a doubt that it is infact Michael on the songs. Id like my mind to be at rest. If the tracks are Michael, maybe ill enjoy them a little more knowing that the debate is settled and will die. If not Michael, well then....someone has some explaining to do.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I mean I try to listen to other music but I just can't.I sometimes listen to Bruno Mars, Lady GaGa, and R.Kelly but then I go straight to MJ again.
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I think I understand what you are talking about. I listen to many artists and different genre. At work, I play classics, Disney soundtracks and instruments. But, I always gravitate to Michael. It's like I always need to listen to him. His music is like my comfort food. I don't limit myself to Michael; yet, I get the most satisfaction from hearing his voice.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Is like Michael left us so much music for us to enjoy that I can never get bored of his songs.
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Michael was inspired by the great musicians. Start by checking them out. Then I suppose you'll find your own preferences.

Here is for example one of those artists with whom Michael recorded a duet:

[youtube]YYLR31Skv0U[/youtube]

or

[youtube]Hq28oetgrvk&feature=related[/youtube]

or

[youtube]3l7K6bsElzw&feature=related[/youtube]

or

[youtube]9Md1graHv88&feature=related[/youtube]

or

[youtube]6Ly5rCHPc3U&feature=related[/youtube]

or

[youtube]0LlojC_O8MA&feature=related[/youtube]
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
If the Cascio Controvesy doesnt end, Michaels legacy will be stained with the tracks.
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It won't. His legacy is the likes of Thriller and so on. This is a posthumous album. Even if it turns out to be fakes, the people who have done it will be negatively affected not Michael. He's dead and had no part in this.
 
ivy said:
It won't. His legacy is the likes of Thriller and so on. This is a posthumous album. Even if it turns out to be fakes, the people who have done it will be negatively affected not Michael. He's dead and had no part in this.
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But that is what these people are trying to make us believe..that he had a part in this.
 
Korgnex said:
(Before there's any misunderstanding: I'm not addressing you, Bumper)
Wise words. That's why there will be some legal attempts to contest the official word in 2012 which will have some outcome.

Attacking/Ridiculing other fans/degrading them to be deaf/stupid/inexpert and bad-mouthing them for over 12 months now has been a waste of time to those people that allegedly only wanted to prove others wrong.
Click to expand...

Whilst I disagree with you wholeheartedly on this subject (I believe the songs to be JM), I can say you are indeed right on this and we need to all work together to get to the bottom of what happened. Hopefully those actions will lead to that. Whatever the outcome, I hope that the fans can join together and that neither side has a "told you so" attitude. It won't help. One thing I will say is that there has been appalling behaviour from people on both sides of the debate. I sat and read a bunch of old tweets from believers and doubters alike a little while ago and some of the comments were absolutely disgusting. I've said things I shouldn't too, which is down to sheer frustration, but I'm prepared to throw my hat in the ring and say let's work together. After all we are all here because of one thing in common: Michael Jackson.
 
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