Michael - The Great Album Debate

^^ BAD on DVD...Even better on BluRay...But I'd settle for DVD...OMG, my life would be complete :swoon:

I'm not going to lie. If they don't release BAD tour with BAD 25th anniversary release, I'll consider it a let-down. Exactly how many times they want me to buy MITM. I'm quite tired of buying the same songs in different sequence.
 
I knew it was for a music video/short film


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ue3fVxlQus

It was just being filmed in general in the same way that Michael filmed many things. There are lots of videos of Michael recording in the studio. It was Barry Gibbs decision to release it now. Nothing to do with Michael. And if it was intended for a music video it would have been shot on higher quality film by a professional crew.

I tend to agree with Stella. The footage was not intended for short film whatsoever. One can tell by the quality of the film alone. Despite saying he didn't like being filmed, Michael did film himself a lot for his own library.
 
I tend to agree with Stella. The footage was not intended for short film whatsoever. One can tell by the quality of the film alone. Despite saying he didn't like being filmed, Michael did film himself a lot for his own library.

I don't believe a word when Eddie says that Michael didn't like filming himself in the studio when at the same time he shows private footages of Michael filmed at their home!

Filming oneself in the studio has nothing to do with liking or disliking. If anything Miichael would especially film himself in the studio for professional reasons. I don't think he necessarily watched the footages of himself in the studio if it wasn't necessary. I believe the fact that he filmed himself in the studio helped him to have a general overview and monitor if anything could be improved while singing a song.

So, to me, recording 12 songs in a studio and not filming a second of it is comparable to Michael rehearsing Thriller dance moves without the mirror in front of him (despite the fact that Michael Jackson himself declared that he wasn't fond of looking in the mirror; no pun intended).
 
Soooooo glad no one remembered every word that I once said 20 years ago. I wouldn't have a life.

That's the thing with Michael; everything he once said is remembered, because it's written down or filmed at some point.

One can change, right?
 
The thing is, Cascio would be PROUD to show how Michael recorded the 12 (!) songs. He would be PROUD to release demos or snippets of MJ saying something while recording ("I like that", "that's amazing", ...). But he does NOT HAVE such material. Because MJ never recorded 12 songs with him.

No, he just says "this is his voice". Great.

I don't get, that some don't feel HOW fishy this all is.
 
^ Exactly. They (inlcuding JAMES PORTE) would've GLADLY accepted an interview wiht Joe Vogel to discuss how they made the music, how it was working with MJ in the studio.
 
Did anyone find a typical Michael 'yeah, yeah' in any of the Cascio songs? 'Yeah, Yeah' like in 'All in your name' or 'I need you'??

'I believe I'm ready to win, yeah, yeah'..:D

To make clear what I mean;

3.11 and 3.27

[youtube]D86ye9nCBLM[/youtube]

and

4.37-4.58


[youtube]1Ue3fVxlQus[/youtube]



Course not, because these songs are sung without any passion, IMO.
 
....and 5:08 (AIYN) is NOT something the Cascio singer could accomplish....That part has reached new proportions of epicness :D
 
^^ Ugh, who knows! Who knows what the Estate has been thinking with so many projects...So many disappointments...A video for Behind the Mask had so much potential...Same with Hollywood Tonight...

and what's so frustrating is that they could do so much better! We all know that! They all know that....If only they put some effort in...And it has NOTHING to do with the fact that Michael's not here and we will never get products of his calibre again, yada, yada, yada....lol....But, seriously??? A kindergartener could come up with something better that what they've been doing...

I bought 'Vision' and I NEVER watch it....I always go back and watch HIStory on Film instead...I mean, how could they f*ck up that much on accident? I just don't get it...
What's wrong with Michael Jackson's Vision ?
 
What's wrong with Michael Jackson's Vision ?

The black box around a lot of the videos....THRILLER??? Who does that to a masterpiece like that?

The green flash in ITC....The missing audio in the beginning of Will You Be There....

Terrible quality to most of the videos...The graininess in The Way You Make Me Feel (That graininess is much diminished in HIStory on Film)

Overall, the quality is pure crap compared to previous releases...Clearly a fast cash-in....

I'm sure others can point out other flaws...

Oh right...and on top of that, it doesn't even play in my PS3 :doh:
 
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Did anyone find a typical Michael 'yeah, yeah' in any of the Cascio songs? 'Yeah, Yeah' like in 'All in your name' or 'I need you'??

'I believe I'm ready to win, yeah, yeah'..:D

To make clear what I mean;

3.11 and 3.27

[youtube]D86ye9nCBLM[/youtube]

and

4.37-4.58


[youtube]1Ue3fVxlQus[/youtube]



Course not, because these songs are sung without any passion, IMO.

What's different from the ones present in KYHU and Stay? This doesn't really mean anything as they could've just been copied and pasted in like the rest of the ad-libs.
 
What's different from the ones present in KYHU and Stay? This doesn't really mean anything as they could've just been copied and pasted in like the rest of the ad-libs.

Shoot, now I have to listen to KYHU again. Don't have Stay saved.
Thought I missed it, but no..

There's many ways you can sing 'yeah, yeah'.

You mean at. 3.23?

[youtube]U33Q0reRQMM[/youtube]

Yes, The Cascio singer sings it too, but in a really TOTALLY DIFFERENT way.

4.37-4.58


[youtube]1Ue3fVxlQus[/youtube]


I posted the clips to explain what I mean. In these examples (AIYN and I need you) he sings it the same way.

These little things, trademarks of Michael, and I mean not singing 'yeah' twice, but THE WAY it's sung. These are the little things I miss on the Cascio songs.
 
Thought I missed it, but no..

There's many ways you can sing 'yeah, yeah'.

You mean at. 3.23?

[youtube]U33Q0reRQMM[/youtube]

Yes, The Cascio singer sings it too, but in a really TOTALLY DIFFERENT way.

4.37-4.58


[youtube]1Ue3fVxlQus[/youtube]


I posted the clips to explain what I mean. In these examples (AIYN and I need you) he sings it the same way.

These little things, trademarks of Michael, and I mean not singing 'yeah' twice, but THE WAY it's sung. These are the little things I miss on the Cascio songs.


I didn't mean the exact way the "yeah" is sung. What I'm saying is, it's obvious they've copied and pasted "yeah's" into the Cascio tracks, therefore the absence of "YeaYea" doesn't really prove or disprove anything as those also could've been easily manipulated into the Cascio songs, just like the others were.
 
The black box around a lot of the videos....THRILLER??? Who does that to a masterpiece like that?

The green flash in ITC....The missing audio in the beginning of Will You Be There....

Terrible quality to most of the videos...The graininess in The Way You Make Me Feel (That graininess is much diminished in HIStory on Film)

Overall, the quality is pure crap compared to previous releases...Clearly a fast cash-in....

I'm sure others can point out other flaws...

Oh right...and on top of that, it doesn't even play in my PS3 :doh:

I don't understand what kind of re-master work they did on Vision. Whatever it was, it didn't show. TWYMMF and MITM are almost unwatchable. I honestly cannot comprehend how DVD's (Dangerous and HIStory) released a decade ago can be of better quality.

The BAD era film is shot on film. Just take a look to Smooth Criminal on Moonwalker Blu-ray, one will see how glorious Smooth Criminal is.

Vision was a let-down to me. Before Vision, I have already owned all official DVDs and countless unofficial one I downloaded from internet. So, Vision wasn't an "exciting" project for me to begin with. Of course it's nice to have all of Michael's short films in one collection. But, I don't find myself reaching out to Vision at all because of the inferior quality.

I'm not a picky viewer. But, if I spend moeny to purchase something that I have already owned. I want to get product that is up-to-date with 2010 technology.

Vision is a good collection to have if one doesn't have Dangerous or HIStory or Moonwalker.
 
Im dissapointed with vision. A bluray would have been nice. Sure its more work, but id expect that quality from a MJ release...too bad we will have to wait to see filly remastered, clear, crisp MJ videos. Who is it in HD....nuff said
 
a blu ray is almost impossible. Unless these videos were mastered in film or in HD, they will need to upscale the video.

As for the "yeah" it's not in Stay. Stay does not have any copy-paste adlibs except for possibly from Butterflies (I'm not sure but I think it's "te quiero, I love YOU"). The YEAH is in All Right. It sounds awkwardly pasted in the middle of the chorus that the singer would do "aaa" falsetto and suddenly sing YEAAH!
 
What does it mean to "pan" a vocal? This is important.

why is it important?

and in my layman knowledge - I'm sure Grent will correct me

vocals can be centered - heard on both left and right speakers
or they can be panned - left or right speakers

generally lead will be centered and some changed versions of it (such as pitch change) will be panned left and right. It's a technique to make the vocals sound richer by creating multiple layers that slightly different from each other.
 
What's different from the ones present in KYHU and Stay? This doesn't really mean anything as they could've just been copied and pasted in like the rest of the ad-libs.

I didn't mean the exact way the "yeah" is sung. What I'm saying is, it's obvious they've copied and pasted "yeah's" into the Cascio tracks, therefore the absence of "YeaYea" doesn't really prove or disprove anything as those also could've been easily manipulated into the Cascio songs, just like the others were.
Nothing proves a thing, unfortunately...but it's just another little absence/lacking of Michael's specific trademarks. Of course they could've pasted it into the songs, but they didn't. Makes sense to me, because who's responsible for these songs probably never noticed there's a huge difference between being Michael and having a voice sounding (in their opinion) like Michael, hence trying to fool fans by copying and pasting SOME words in hope everyone would think it's Michael. Doesn't work though. Too many things are missing and I gave an example of that.
 
why is it important?

and in my layman knowledge - I'm sure Grent will correct me

vocals can be centered - heard on both left and right speakers
or they can be panned - left or right speakers

generally lead will be centered and some changed versions of it (such as pitch change) will be panned left and right. It's a technique to make the vocals sound richer by creating multiple layers that slightly different from each other.

In principle that's correct.

In the right setting, a centered sound seems to come from in between the speakers.
Whereas panned sounds (left or right) can be perceived as coming from anywhere between the middle and the far sides, depending on how hard you pan.
Modern records try to make use of the whole stereophonic field from left to right. (imagine a virtual orchestra)

At some Beatles records the vocals are panned hard to one side (Eleanor Rigby is one I recall). If you shut down one speaker, you hear only the instrumental.


This stereo effect is achieved by different volumes of a sound at the left and the right channel. The louder on one side, the more it is perceived as coming from there. Also, like in real life, it can be a mixture of volume, time and frequency. Imagine a sound coming from your left. It will be heard louder on your left ear than on your right. Also the sound arrives at your left ear earlier, than on your right. Also, it arrives at the left ear directly, whereas some frequencies are omitted while traveling to the right ear, beyond your own head (you gotta listen to "dummy head recordings", to realize what difference your head alone can make).

This is, why we rotate our heads when trying to locate sound sources. And this is why it is hard to locate, if sounds are reflected heavily from surfaces.
 
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In principle that's correct.

In the right setting, a centered sound seems to come from in between the speakers.
Whereas panned sounds (left or right) can be perceived as coming from anywhere between the middle and the far sides, depending on how hard you pan.
Modern records try to make use of the whole stereophonic field from left to right. (imagine a virtual orchestra)

At some Beatles records the vocals are panned hard to one side (Eleanor Rigby is one I recall). If you shut down one speaker, you hear only the instrumental.


This stereo effect is achieved by different volumes of a sound at the left and the right channel. The louder on one side, the more it is perceived as coming from there. Also, like in real life, it can be a mixture of volume, time and frequency. Imagine a sound coming from your left. It will be heard louder on your left ear than on your right. Also the sound arrives at your left ear earlier, than on your right. Also, it arrives at the left ear directly, whereas some frequencies are omitted while traveling to the right ear, beyond your own head (you gotta listen to "dummy head recordings", to realize what difference your head alone can make).

This is, why we rotate our heads when trying to locate sound sources. And this is why it is hard to locate, if sounds are reflected heavily from surfaces.


I don't have any problems with this kind of issue, because when I want to listen to singers or bands, they beg me to come with all their equipment and staff to play their music live in my living room.

As far as movies are concerned, the actors also play their roles in my living room in one take, while the orchestra is playing the music in my kitchen live. I guarantee you, it's better than 3-D technology.

But I don't have any trace of what I am saying, because the artists and performers don't like to be filmed, and they asked me to erase everything I had on my hard disk.
 
In the first two songs we heard, BN and KYHU, the lead is panned (it's also the same thing with Soldier Boy). Using a standard "vocal remover" you just can't remove the vocals (I've seen some instrumentals of this being done but I don't know how to do this). This does happen if you mix the lead vocal in as stereo instead of mono. The BN acapella is STEREO. Monster and all the other seem to be mixed normally with the vocals in the center channel. However, noticed just about all of the Michael Album songs are rather "wet", you can still hear some of MJ's vocal as part of the "wet" track (ie reverb and echo).

In nearly all MJ songs the lead is in the center; one exception is BOTDF where the vocal is panned or mixed into the sides in order to add effect.

All I Need is such an amazing song... sped up and chipmunked! Happy Christmas shopping music! :D
 
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But I don't have any trace of what I am saying, because the artists and performers don't like to be filmed, and they asked me to erase everything I had on my hard disk.

Given your reputation, I see no option but to believe you.

Before I think you lie, I rather think you're dumb.
 
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In principle that's correct.

yay :) I'm satisfied with that. I just believe I understand the basics.

and I'm still curious about why it was such an important thing?


and ps : who was the person that gave an interview to a French forum and also said that Michael didn't want to be filmed when recording?

and 2 : that "erased everything" came from Taryll. If you believe Birchey and if you believe there were multiple vocal tracks as he said, you'll have to conclude that "erased everything" from Taryll is wrong.
 
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