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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Jesta said:
And yet he didn't include the songs on his notes for release? They haven't provided any kind of proof that he was involved, unlike Barry Gibb who was happy to share the studio experience with the fans?

And just because they worked with MJ as an assistant doesn't mean he holds musical credibility. People betrayed MJ in the past and no doubt it'll continue to happen into the future. THAT IS A FACT.
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Why do you need evidence Michael recorded these songs? Listen to the first line of 'Fall in Love', tell me that is not Michael Joseph Jackson.
 
dam2040 said:
you think that we should respect the 'Michael' album. With everything surrounding it, no way in hell should we let the people behind this get away with it. And no, not getting away with putting 'Michael Jackson' on 'his' album.
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I'm a believer but if I'm proven wrong and they are "fake" I will support all the lawsuits against Sony, Epic Records, MJJ estate, etc but the thing is that people are making themselves believe that it's not him without no proof.

Before you say "But you are making yourself believe that it is MJ" I will say Michael Jackson recorded many songs in his lifetime, just for Invincible there were like 40 songs recorded why would Sony risk being sued by thousands of fans for fraud when they can just go in the vault and pick 3 other songs ?

And why would Michael Jackson's estate risk that too when they know that if the songs are proven "fake" no one will ever believe them ?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I believe his estate and yes we go around in a circle since no one can prove anything they say.

All I wish that doubters would do is accept that their claim that it is not MJ is an opinion not a proven fact, it seems some people have made themselves believe that it is not him without proof.
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To be fair, you are doing the same thing. There is no proof that the songs are Michael. Which is in itself, proof that something is up. Plus we have direct matches between these vocals and Jason Cupeta. Yet nothing that can be matched with any vocal that Michael has ever done. Ever. So you need to accept that your belief it is Michael is based on nothing more than your opinion.
 
Jesta said:
And yet he didn't include the songs on his notes for release? They haven't provided any kind of proof that he was involved, unlike Barry Gibb who was happy to share the studio experience with the fans?

And just because they worked with MJ as an assistant doesn't mean he holds musical credibility. People betrayed MJ in the past and no doubt it'll continue to happen into the future. THAT IS A FACT.
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So your saying that because it wasn't on a paper that was photographed it means he wasn't thinking of releasing it ?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Forensic scientists make their living on it like the ones the CIA hired to make sure Osama BinLaden was the man they were watching for over a month, so my answer is yes.
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Who were these so called scientists? What were the specifics of the tests? What was the margin of error? What did they test? What did they test in comparison? What are the details of the results? And who were they employed by to conduct these tests? Actually I can answer that last one. Sony.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I mean you always respond to me like that and you can never be serious for 1 minute.

I'm a believer but if I'm proven wrong and they are "fake" I will support all the lawsuits against Sony, Epic Records, MJJ estate, etc but the thing is that people are making themselves believe that it's not him without no proof.

Before you say "But you are making yourself believe that it is MJ" I will say Michael Jackson recorded many songs in his lifetime, just for Invincible there were like 40 songs recorded why would Sony risk being sued by thousands of fans for fraud when they can just go in the vault and pick 3 other songs ?

And why would Michael Jackson's estate risk that too when they know that if the songs are proven "fake" no one will ever believe them ?
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Ok, I get your point. I do like to have a joke. Whilst you have a very good point, the risk meant nothing. People, like you, believe these songs were recorded by Michael Jackson in 2007 whilst staying at the Cascio's house. But, that simply doesn't wash with a very,very big number of people. The comparisons, and just general voice doesn't match with the Michael I have known and loved for my entire life. What I am trying to say is this,

Whilst the risk was huge, it was still taken, and has destroyed any hope we, as Michael's fans have for any future releases. There were hundreds and hundreds of songs that could have been used instead of these songs and if only they were used. But, they weren't and they have caused this mess by thinking they could pull it off.
 
StellaJackson said:
To be fair, you are doing the same thing. There is no proof that the songs are Michael. Which is in itself, proof that something is up. Plus we have direct matches between these vocals and Jason Cupeta. Yet nothing that can be matched with any vocal that Michael has ever done. Ever. So you need to accept that your belief it is Michael is based on nothing more than your opinion.
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I would say the same to you.

Comparing videos is not reliable proof.
 
Why do we call JM a goat? I realised today. It's because it stands for 'Greatest of all time' See, the man deserves his credit.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
So your saying that because it wasn't on a paper that was photographed it means he wasn't thinking of releasing it ?
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Like someone said, there's almost always been a paper trail with all of MJ's songs in the past. Hold My Hand was mentioned by MJ, Best of Joy had handwritten lyrics, Hollywood had instructions written down (which Neff-U was HAPPY TO SHOW) and Barry had studio footage of him singing.

Let's see, what has Eddie presented...
*stories of Michael staying there.
*footage of him in the 80s staying there.
*a picture of a vacant studio.
*the "assurance" that the songs aren't fake, without any other backing aside from his word.

Again, you act as if betrayal is a new concept to the MJ fan world. This stuff happened/happens all the time!
 
Jesta said:
And yet he didn't include the songs on his notes for release? They haven't provided any kind of proof that he was involved, unlike Barry Gibb who was happy to share the studio experience with the fans?

And just because they worked with MJ as an assistant doesn't mean he holds musical credibility. People betrayed MJ in the past and no doubt it'll continue to happen into the future. THAT IS A FACT.
Click to expand...
Maybe when MJ lived with the Cascio's they just wanted to record not take pictures or videos of MJ since he was living there.

Michael himself wrote on Moonwalk that he hated being filmed while recording maybe with Barry it was planned to film him at work for a later project maybe a video ? Who knows
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Maybe when MJ lived with the Cascio's they just wanted to record not take pictures or videos of MJ since he was living there.

Michael himself wrote on Moonwalk that he hated being filmed while recording maybe with Barry it was planned to film him at work for a later project maybe a video ? Who knows
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There are countless videos and photographs of Michael in the studio over the years. And if Michael wasn't photographed or filmed during his stay at the Cascio's then they would still have worktapes, out takes etc. Oh wait, they had to erase them to make space on the hard drive. These songs conists of many takes. I can tell you that for a fact.
 
We have OTHER videos of him in the studio, though. Such as in The One, We Are the World and I think Private Home Videos might have them. Barry's time wasn't a unique one. And AGAIN, Moonwalk was written by 80s Michael, it isn't reflective of Michael as he grew older. The man loved to document EVERYTHING, even the most trivial parts of the creative process. There is no paper trail for these songs, nothing that links him to the music ASIDE from the Copyright links. Creatively, there is nothing showing he had an input in these songs.
 
StellaJackson;3562279 said:
Who were these so called scientists? What were the specifics of the tests? What was the margin of error? What did they test? What did they test in comparison? What are the details of the results? And who were they employed by to conduct these tests? Actually I can answer that last one. Sony.
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Dear Fans,
As the Michael album was being put together, it was decided to bring Teddy Riley on board to work on several songs, including “Breaking News,” a song Michael recorded with Eddie Cascio and James Porte in late 2007 while living at the Cascio family home with his children. Riley produced and submitted “Breaking News” to Sony for inclusion on the album. At that time, no one ever mentioned that the vocals we heard on the Cascio songs, which were basically in demo format, might not be Michael. It was known, however, that the background vocals were a combination of Michael and James Porte.
After the tracks were submitted to Sony, three of these Cascio songs were selected to be on the album, and “Breaking News” was one of the three. The day after the submission and selection of the album tracks, for the very first time, the authenticity of Michael’s vocals on the Cascio tracks was questioned.
Because of these questions, I was immediately asked by co-Executors John Branca and John McClain to conduct an investigation regarding the authenticity of the lead vocals on the Cascio tracks.
Six of Michael’s former producers and engineers who had worked with Michael over the past 30 years – Bruce Swedien, Matt Forger, Stewart Brawley, Michael Prince, Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley – were all invited to a listening session to hear the raw vocals of the Cascio tracks in question. All of these persons listened to the a cappella versions of the vocals on the Cascio tracks being considered for inclusion on the album, so they could give an opinion as to whether or not the lead vocals were sung by Michael. They all confirmed that the vocal was definitely Michael.
Michael’s musical director and piano player on many of his records over a 20-year period, Greg Phillinganes, played on a Cascio track being produced for the album, and said the voice was definitely Michael’s. Dorian Holley, who was Michael’s vocal director for his solo tours for 20 plus years (including the O2 Concert Tour) and is seen in the This Is It film, listened to the Cascio tracks and told me the lead vocal was Michael Jackson.
These are all engineers, producers and musicians who worked on tours and/or in the studio with Michael when he was recording Bad, Thriller, Off The Wall, Dangerous, Invincible, HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor, and they all reconfirmed their belief that the lead vocals were Michael’s voice on the Cascio tracks.
The Estate then retained one of the best-known forensic musicologists in the nation to listen to the vocals without any instrumental accompaniment (“a cappella”), and to compare them with a cappella vocals from previous Michael songs. This expert performed waveform analysis, an objective scientific test used to determine audio authenticity, on the Cascio tracks, as well as previously released tracks with Michael’s voice, and reported that ALL of the lead vocals analyzed (which included Cascio tracks) were the voice of Michael Jackson.
Sony Music conducted their own investigation by hiring yet a second well-respected forensic musicologist who also compared the a cappella lead vocals from Cascio tracks against previously released vocals of Michael’s, and found that Michael’s voice was the on all sets of the raw vocals. The Cascio tracks were also played for two very prominent persons in the music industry who played crucial roles in Michael’s career. Both of these individuals believed that the lead vocals were Michael’s.
Just to be absolutely certain, I also contacted Jason Malachi, a young singer who some persons had wrongfully alleged was a “soundalike” singer that was hired to sing on the Cascio tracks, and I confirmed that he had no involvement with this project whatsoever.
Sony decided that, given the overwhelming objective evidence resulting from the exhaustive investigations outlined above, they wanted to release a record that included three of the Cascio-Porte tracks – because they believed, without reservation, that the lead vocal on all of those tracks were sung by Michael Jackson.
Although there still seem to be concerns being expressed in some quarters about the authenticity of the lead vocals, notwithstanding the opinion of those who worked with Michael, and two independent forensic analysts, ultimately, Michael’s fans will be the judges of these songs, as they always are. We take all fan comments very seriously, and as I’d stated above, there is nothing more important to the Estate than Michael’s music, his legacy and his fans.
Michael’s fans are extraordinary in their quest for accuracy and their passions to raise their voices in a search for truth! We join with them in our care and concern for Michael. We are continuing to follow up with those who have worked in the studio or on tours with Michael, and if any new information comes to light, we will keep you and the fans advised.
Thanks,
Howard
Howard Weitzman, Esq.
Attorney for the Estate Of Michael Jackson
Santa Monica, CA
 
Jesta said:
We have OTHER videos of him in the studio, though. Such as in The One, We Are the World and I think Private Home Videos might have them. Barry's time wasn't a unique one. And AGAIN, Moonwalk was written by 80s Michael, it isn't reflective of Michael as he grew older. The man loved to document EVERYTHING, even the most trivial parts of the creative process. There is no paper trail for these songs, nothing that links him to the music ASIDE from the Copyright links. Creatively, there is nothing showing he had an input in these songs.
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Actually Moonwalk was ghost written but yeah you are right. I can think of lots of instances of Michael being filmed in th studio.
 
ADKIc3mAnX;3562302 said:
Dear Fans,
As the Michael album was being put together, it was decided to bring Teddy Riley on board to work on several songs, including “Breaking News,” a song Michael recorded with Eddie Cascio and James Porte in late 2007 while living at the Cascio family home with his children. Riley produced and submitted “Breaking News” to Sony for inclusion on the album. At that time, no one ever mentioned that the vocals we heard on the Cascio songs, which were basically in demo format, might not be Michael. It was known, however, that the background vocals were a combination of Michael and James Porte.
After the tracks were submitted to Sony, three of these Cascio songs were selected to be on the album, and “Breaking News” was one of the three. The day after the submission and selection of the album tracks, for the very first time, the authenticity of Michael’s vocals on the Cascio tracks was questioned.
Because of these questions, I was immediately asked by co-Executors John Branca and John McClain to conduct an investigation regarding the authenticity of the lead vocals on the Cascio tracks.
Six of Michael’s former producers and engineers who had worked with Michael over the past 30 years – Bruce Swedien, Matt Forger, Stewart Brawley, Michael Prince, Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley – were all invited to a listening session to hear the raw vocals of the Cascio tracks in question. All of these persons listened to the a cappella versions of the vocals on the Cascio tracks being considered for inclusion on the album, so they could give an opinion as to whether or not the lead vocals were sung by Michael. They all confirmed that the vocal was definitely Michael.
Michael’s musical director and piano player on many of his records over a 20-year period, Greg Phillinganes, played on a Cascio track being produced for the album, and said the voice was definitely Michael’s. Dorian Holley, who was Michael’s vocal director for his solo tours for 20 plus years (including the O2 Concert Tour) and is seen in the This Is It film, listened to the Cascio tracks and told me the lead vocal was Michael Jackson.
These are all engineers, producers and musicians who worked on tours and/or in the studio with Michael when he was recording Bad, Thriller, Off The Wall, Dangerous, Invincible, HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor, and they all reconfirmed their belief that the lead vocals were Michael’s voice on the Cascio tracks.
The Estate then retained one of the best-known forensic musicologists in the nation to listen to the vocals without any instrumental accompaniment (“a cappella”), and to compare them with a cappella vocals from previous Michael songs. This expert performed waveform analysis, an objective scientific test used to determine audio authenticity, on the Cascio tracks, as well as previously released tracks with Michael’s voice, and reported that ALL of the lead vocals analyzed (which included Cascio tracks) were the voice of Michael Jackson.
Sony Music conducted their own investigation by hiring yet a second well-respected forensic musicologist who also compared the a cappella lead vocals from Cascio tracks against previously released vocals of Michael’s, and found that Michael’s voice was the on all sets of the raw vocals. The Cascio tracks were also played for two very prominent persons in the music industry who played crucial roles in Michael’s career. Both of these individuals believed that the lead vocals were Michael’s.
Just to be absolutely certain, I also contacted Jason Malachi, a young singer who some persons had wrongfully alleged was a “soundalike” singer that was hired to sing on the Cascio tracks, and I confirmed that he had no involvement with this project whatsoever.
Sony decided that, given the overwhelming objective evidence resulting from the exhaustive investigations outlined above, they wanted to release a record that included three of the Cascio-Porte tracks – because they believed, without reservation, that the lead vocal on all of those tracks were sung by Michael Jackson.
Although there still seem to be concerns being expressed in some quarters about the authenticity of the lead vocals, notwithstanding the opinion of those who worked with Michael, and two independent forensic analysts, ultimately, Michael’s fans will be the judges of these songs, as they always are. We take all fan comments very seriously, and as I’d stated above, there is nothing more important to the Estate than Michael’s music, his legacy and his fans.
Michael’s fans are extraordinary in their quest for accuracy and their passions to raise their voices in a search for truth! We join with them in our care and concern for Michael. We are continuing to follow up with those who have worked in the studio or on tours with Michael, and if any new information comes to light, we will keep you and the fans advised.
Thanks,
Howard
Howard Weitzman, Esq.
Attorney for the Estate Of Michael Jackson
Santa Monica, CA
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That does not answer any of the questions I just asked.
 
Of course, when in doubt, believe the INCREDIBLY VAGUE statement...
 
StellaJackson said:
There are countless videos and photographs of Michael in the studio over the years. And if Michael wasn't photographed or filmed during his stay at the Cascio's then they would still have worktapes, out takes etc. Oh wait, they had to erase them to make space on the hard drive. These songs conists of many takes. I can tell you that for a fact.
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Yes but what if when they were sent to Sony they had to delete everything since now they were property of MiJac Music and the estate ?
 
Why everyone pick on the statement? It is incredibly detailed, and answers any questions on this subject.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Yes but what if when they were sent to Sony they had to delete everything since now they were property of MiJac Music and the estate ?
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Are you joking? Are you seriously now saying that Eddie deleted all the takes from his private hard drive just because Sony bought the main songs?
 
Since yesterday a lot of fans apparently have been fallen for this FAKE:




Among those people are a lot of people from all camps (believers/doubters/undecided). It's worrisome to witness how people lose all objectivity...
 
Korgnex said:
Since yesterday a lot of fans apparently have been fallen for this FAKE:




Among those people are a lot of people from all camps (believers/doubters/undecided). It's worrisome to witness how people lose all objectivity...
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How could anyone fall for that?
 
StellaJackson said:
Are you joking? Are you seriously now saying that Eddie deleted all the takes from his private hard drive just because Sony bought the main songs?
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Maybe their deal with Sony, MJJ estate, and Cascio's was we buy your songs and you delete all traces of it since they are not yours anymore.

Update: Also to protect the songs from leaking and stuff so Sony now might posses all the demo's, outtakes, etc
 
Korgnex said:
Since yesterday a lot of fans apparently have been fallen for this FAKE:




Among those people are a lot of people from all camps (believers/doubters/undecided). It's worrisome to witness how people lose all objectivity...
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This still sounds MUCH more like MJ than the Cascio songs. And THIS is bad quality recording.
 
So John McClain - who wanted ALL traces of Michael's recorded voice on record - allowed those worktapes to be deleted? Wow...
 
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