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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Jesta said:
So John McClain - who wanted ALL traces of Michael's recorded voice on record - allowed those worktapes to be deleted? Wow...
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John McClain was never cool with the Cascio's since if I'm right Frank Cascio fired him in 2001 with MJ's permission.
 
And yet McClain was named co-executor of the Estate in the 2002 will... AND he was instrumental in the deal for the Cascio tracks BECAUSE he wanted all instances of MJ demos, regardless of completion... That ideal allowed him to be tricked easily, but I don't think he would WANT THE WORKTAPES TO BE DESTROYED, DO YOU?
 
Jesta said:
And yet McClain was named co-executor of the Estate in the 2002 will... AND he was instrumental in the deal for the Cascio tracks BECAUSE he wanted all instances of MJ demos, regardless of completion... That ideal allowed him to be tricked easily, but I don't think he would WANT THE WORKTAPES TO BE DESTROYED, DO YOU?
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I think they are not destroyed and they were told to say that since the songs were sold to MJJ estate and they don't want demos leaking by mistake due to a robbery or hack so Sony took it and added them to the MJ vault.

Update: I feel that Sony would release them on their next album but not as tracks on a CD but as a free download coupon extra.
 
OK, I'm at my wit's end... I'm done.
To debate is to accept the possibilities of both sides and then to argue your case. "What if" scenarios are NOT a good example of this. Neither are quoting vague statements, or using the "they would never be that stupid/betray him" argument. That is not relevant to the debate or the musical content of the songs, that is a moral debate. There is a possibility that the songs are real, but if so then Michael's voice has been manipulated to the point where these shouldn't have been released. They're just NOT good songs. Comparisons are NOT evidence, but they show a credible link to Jason Malachi's voice. I've yet to see a comparison showing a credible link between the Cascio voice and Michael's voice. If YOU can, then be my guest and make one.

Arky, azsummergirl and Love, check your email for something AMAZING.
 
Korgnex said:
Since yesterday a lot of fans apparently have been fallen for this FAKE:

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Pentum said:
This still sounds MUCH more like MJ than the Cascio songs. And THIS is bad quality recording.
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Please make it STOP .. this makes me hysterical when fans do this. Im in there wanting to smack them. and my friends are in there swooning over the faker and I have to slay them for doing it .. :assassin: Who made it and do you know who uploaded it ?
 
Jesta said:
OK, I'm at my wit's end... I'm done.
To debate is to accept the possibilities of both sides and then to argue your case. "What if" scenarios are NOT a good example of this. Neither are quoting vague statements, or using the "they would never be that stupid/betray him" argument. That is not relevant to the debate or the musical content of the songs, that is a moral debate. There is a possibility that the songs are real, but if so then Michael's voice has been manipulated to the point where these shouldn't have been released. They're just NOT good songs. Comparisons are NOT evidence, but they show a credible link to Jason Malachi's voice. I've yet to see a comparison showing a credible link between the Cascio voice and Michael's voice. If YOU can, then be my guest and make one.

Arky, azsummergirl and Love, check your email for something AMAZING.
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To me the Cascio songs are not bad songs they are good but that is my opinion.
 
Jesta said:
OK, I'm at my wit's end... I'm done.To debate is to accept the possibilities of both sides and then to argue your case. "What if" scenarios are NOT a good example of this. Neither are quoting vague statements, or using the "they would never be that stupid/betray him" argument. That is not relevant to the debate or the musical content of the songs, that is a moral debate. There is a possibility that the songs are real, but if so then Michael's voice has been manipulated to the point where these shouldn't have been released. They're just NOT good songs. Comparisons are NOT evidence, but they show a credible link to Jason Malachi's voice. I've yet to see a comparison showing a credible link between the Cascio voice and Michael's voice. If YOU can, then be my guest and make one.Arky, azsummergirl and Love, check your email for something AMAZING.
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OMG! Thanks Jesta! I'll take a look when I get home from work ;)
 
Really? Of all the things in my post you can comment on or pick apart, you choose my opinion of whether I LIKE the songs!? You don't comment on the manipulation of the vocals, the irrelevance of bringing in the closeness of the Cascio family in your reasoning, or the "what if" scenarios that you often put across? These things are what makes it impossible to have a legitimate debate. Those "what if" scenarios need a sizeable amount of prior knowledge for them to have any credibility, and just reciting what the official statement and the Cascio family have said without any other external sources to back it up has just as little credibility as those aforementioned scenarios.

The doubters have compiled examples from Malachi's work, Cascio songs and Michael's work to show a strong link between Malachi and the Cascio vocalist. Is it concrete? Of course not, Malachi isn't the only impersonator in the world. But it's stronger than the link between the Cascio vocalist and Michael himself. They've used the evidence presented in the past year to come to this conclusion, and it didn't rely on the official statement or the faith that the Cascio family won't betray him. AGAIN, this has happened in the past by those close to Michael, and no doubt IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

You seem to love these songs, and that's fine. I won't question anyone's musical taste. But just because you like them doesn't mean they're legitimate. It seems a lot of your reasoning is also based on the fact that you like the songs, as opposed to the deep analysis of the vocals or lyrics, like a lot of other debaters have done.

In order to succeed in this debate, you need to bring forth credibility in your results. Ivy is someone I have a lot of respect for because she works greatly in her answers and always has evidence to back it up. I may disagree with her on points, but her work ethic in attempting to leave no margin for doubt is something I admire greatly.

You're welcome, Arky! Just spreading the love! :)

And with that, I'm out. Probably for a long time. Those who know me well know how to contact me outside of this, even if they have to go through a couple of people to get that information.

Peace.
 
To be fair, a few of you are going back and forth with each other like your opinion is the end all be all fact. When neither side has suitable proof to support their claims.

And Birchey also said that he believes Michael is on the backing vocals of some songs in public. I believe he said it in one of these threads before, either here or on Max-Jax. I know he stated that though, however I've since heard that he changed his mind.
 
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Jesta said:
Really? Of all the things in my post you can comment on or pick apart, you choose my opinion of whether I LIKE the songs!? You don't comment on the manipulation of the vocals, the irrelevance of bringing in the closeness of the Cascio family in your reasoning, or the "what if" scenarios that you often put across? These things are what makes it impossible to have a legitimate debate. Those "what if" scenarios need a sizeable amount of prior knowledge for them to have any credibility, and just reciting what the official statement and the Cascio family have said without any other external sources to back it up has just as little credibility as those aforementioned scenarios.

The doubters have compiled examples from Malachi's work, Cascio songs and Michael's work to show a strong link between Malachi and the Cascio vocalist. Is it concrete? Of course not, Malachi isn't the only impersonator in the world. But it's stronger than the link between the Cascio vocalist and Michael himself. They've used the evidence presented in the past year to come to this conclusion, and it didn't rely on the official statement or the faith that the Cascio family won't betray him. AGAIN, this has happened in the past by those close to Michael, and no doubt IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

You seem to love these songs, and that's fine. I won't question anyone's musical taste. But just because you like them doesn't mean they're legitimate. It seems a lot of your reasoning is also based on the fact that you like the songs, as opposed to the deep analysis of the vocals or lyrics, like a lot of other debaters have done.

In order to succeed in this debate, you need to bring forth credibility in your results. Ivy is someone I have a lot of respect for because she works greatly in her answers and always has evidence to back it up. I may disagree with her on points, but her work ethic in attempting to leave no margin for doubt is something I admire greatly.

You're welcome, Arky! Just spreading the love! :)

And with that, I'm out. Probably for a long time. Those who know me well know how to contact me outside of this, even if they have to go through a couple of people to get that information.

Peace.
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I really wish someday this debate/fan war would end.
 
Jus saw the video for All In Your Name...what a master! That falsetto...heaven..

Now...where's the video for Monster? Huh? HUH????

Oh....right..
 
Arklove said:
Jus saw the video for All In Your Name...what a master! That falsetto...heaven..

Now...where's the video for Monster? Huh? HUH????

Oh....right..
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Not every single MJ song got filmed while recording.

Billie Jean ?
Beat It?
Thriller ?
Best Of Joy ?
Hollywood Tonight ?
Hold My Hand ?
Dangerous ?

This list can go on and on.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Not every single MJ song got filmed while recording.

Billie Jean ?
Beat It?
Thriller ?
Best Of Joy ?
Hollywood Tonight ?
Hold My Hand ?
Dangerous ?

This list can go on and on.
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Most of those songs we have notes or other evidence Michael recorded them. Or they were released when he was alive, so no evidence was needed.
 
Jesta said:
Like someone said, there's almost always been a paper trail with all of MJ's songs in the past. Hold My Hand was mentioned by MJ, Best of Joy had handwritten lyrics, Hollywood had instructions written down (which Neff-U was HAPPY TO SHOW) and Barry had studio footage of him singing.

Let's see, what has Eddie presented...
*stories of Michael staying there.
*footage of him in the 80s staying there.
*a picture of a vacant studio.
*the "assurance" that the songs aren't fake, without any other backing aside from his word.

Again, you act as if betrayal is a new concept to the MJ fan world. This stuff happened/happens all the time!
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Never saw the video but didn't Eddie also told TMZ:

"They're gonna love the music, because it speaks for itself," said Eddie Cascio who is credited on the song "Breaking News". He told MTV: "Michael sounds great. The songs are great. The production sounds great. Teddy Riley (producer) did a phenomenal job finishing off the songs. The quality and production are incredible."

"Michael sounds great"?????????????

Only thing is he doesn't sound like himself, but that just a minor thingy, of course.....

One thing he's right about...the production is absolutely INCREDIBLE. True that.
 
Michael does sound great.
It's just that he never sang any of your crap, Eddie. :)
Thank god for that.
 
Look at Michael snapping his fingers into the microphone on the Barry Gibb video. This is something that can be found in so many songs, including demos. Totally absent from all the Cascio tracks.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I knew it was for a music video/short film


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ue3fVxlQus
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It was just being filmed in general in the same way that Michael filmed many things. There are lots of videos of Michael recording in the studio. It was Barry Gibbs decision to release it now. Nothing to do with Michael. And if it was intended for a music video it would have been shot on higher quality film by a professional crew.
 
I know it's off topic a bit but I thought I'd post it here cos it is to do with the album. Some of you may remember that the version of the Behind The Mask video (with the fan clips) is not the intial version. Another version was shot and scrapped after it was finished for some reason. A couple of pictures were released, including the one with that lady in the Dangerous mask, and there was a behind the scenes clip shot by one of the dancers that was on youtube ages ago but I can't find it now. Chucky Klapow, who was a dancer in TII, was the choreographer and tweeted about it being scrapped several months ago:

ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
This isn't what the Behind The Mask video was supposed to look like.. Did the estate pull a fast one on us or something?
6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @loveforalltime The original concept was shot and it was looking amazing. The fan footage was plan B. I don't know what they were thinking..
6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @MJloverCaro I definitely agree. But I also was on the set of the real Behind The Mask shoot and it was very exciting and promising.
6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @23galadriel that's it. Clearly the real video was on it's way to becoming an amazing tribute with lots of Michael present. I'm lost.
3 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @daggonitmj yup! That's the video I remember shooting..
3 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
Forgetting how sensitive some can be. Apologies for being real. Only good intentions and love for Mike. I speak and the crazies surface wtf?
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @KarmenJackson I'm so lost! I can't believe the hatred. I work on the video that people have seen photos of, I mention it, they hate. Why?
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @michaelsjustice I just assume it was their decision and I trust that the other video made more sense that's all. MJ would have loved it.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckyKlapow Chucky Klapow
@ @michaelsjustice never meant to stir up any drama. I was just shocked by the creative decision. It's all good though. It is what it is
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Does anyone have any thoughts on what went down with this? Why shoot an entire video and then scrap it?

Edit: I found the behind the scenes video. Notice the chandelier from TII at the end:

[youtube]KwOe4nyKNOM[/youtube]
 
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^^ Ugh, who knows! Who knows what the Estate has been thinking with so many projects...So many disappointments...A video for Behind the Mask had so much potential...Same with Hollywood Tonight...

and what's so frustrating is that they could do so much better! We all know that! They all know that....If only they put some effort in...And it has NOTHING to do with the fact that Michael's not here and we will never get products of his calibre again, yada, yada, yada....lol....But, seriously??? A kindergartener could come up with something better that what they've been doing...

I bought 'Vision' and I NEVER watch it....I always go back and watch HIStory on Film instead...I mean, how could they f*ck up that much on accident? I just don't get it...
 
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That's why I expect the worst from every release. Just when you think the incompetence couldn't get any more epic, they pull a rabbit out of a hat. It will get worse as original material gets more sparse. Hell, look what they did with the first release. Three fake songs when they had a choice of dozens. Get used to it people. You buy it, you'll get more of it.
 
MattyJam said:
[/U][/B]There are only 21 one star reviews for Michael on Amazon (one of them is me) and a shocking 135 five star reviews. Leave your one star review HERE: http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jacks...?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar
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i hear you. i rated this myself over a year ago. I couldn't, in good conscience, give it 1 star, because of songs like best of joy and much too soon. but i kind of regret that decision now. I ended up giving it 3 stars, but my review does mention that 3 tracks are fake and it ends by telling people that they shouldn't buy it, b/c it's supporting fraud. I think a lot of the 2 and 3 star reviews are probably similar. Also, you have to keep in mind that companies PAY agencies and dummy accounts to write positive reviews for their products. I have a friend that literally used to do that for a living.

I agree that the estate has been #$%ing up, royally. I just want BAD on dvd. That's all i want. that's all i've ever wanted. If they screw that up i will be very sad.
 
^^ BAD on DVD...Even better on BluRay...But I'd settle for DVD...OMG, my life would be complete :swoon:
 
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