Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You know me, Alanna, I'm a political animal. So for Michael to make that film, with that director, in that location, to that song... it's like the greatest piece of art in the world to me right there!

Filmed in the square where slaves were once whipped and tortured. 'They Don't Care About Us'? No shit, Michael. DUDE!

Not to mention how he danced in front of the policemen .-)

For someone who never had a standard education, he knew his shit. Mind you, stick Spike Lee in the mix with lyrics like that....

 

[samhabib]

DUDE! I love that! lol....Very true...I still need to read up more on that stuff you sent me....

That song is a powerhouse! I remember the first time I heard it...I was speechless...At 13 years of age, I didn't understand what everything truly meant, but I felt the power and emotion behind it...

"The video was in fact filmed in the “Largo do Pelourinho,” the exact spot where hundreds of years ago slaves were whipped and tortured by their masters, hence the name “Pelourinho” (the Pillory). Olodum purposefully headquarters in Pelourinho to tap into the negative energy caused by the shedding of slave blood precisely to gain strength for their fight for Black equality and power."

What did I say? ALWAYS profound. ALWAYS.

 

[Arklove]

"The video was in fact filmed in the “Largo do Pelourinho,” the exact spot where hundreds of years ago slaves were whipped and tortured by their masters, hence the name “Pelourinho” (the Pillory). Olodum purposefully headquarters in Pelourinho to tap into the negative energy caused by the shedding of slave blood precisely to gain strength for their fight for Black equality and power."

What did I say? ALWAYS profound. ALWAYS.

HE was profound.....This stuff comes deep within him....

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It wasn't a good idea to listen to gone too soon and read this thread............

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Is this the best conversation in the world?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ It is! I love this!

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Is this the best conversation in the world?

It's certainly the best one this site has seen for a while

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ It is! I love this!

You know what I never understand? How can people not like MJ's music. I don't mean so called 'haters' I mean intelligent people who love music but don't really enjoy his music.

Not because of the media or his tarnished image, I mean they truthfully don't enjoy it.

I suppose any big fan of any artist can say the same. But I don't get it with MJ.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You know what I never understand? How can people not like MJ's music. I don't mean so called 'haters' I mean intelligent people who love music but don't really enjoy his music.

Not because of the media or his tarnished image, I mean they truthfully don't enjoy it.

I suppose any big fan of any artist can say the same. But I don't get it with MJ.

I don't get it either...I've come across very few people who have actually said they don't like his music...When they do, I really don't know what to say! It's like that saying...'If you don't like Michael Jackson's music, you don't enjoy music'....lol

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Never any media has reported the true meaning behind Michael's work. People need a documentary about Mike just the way we're discussing it here. The journalists/critics don't dig enough.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I don't get it either...I've come across very few people who have actually said they don't like his music...When they do, I really don't know what to say! It's like that saying...'If you don't like Michael Jackson's music, you don't enjoy music'....lol

Take my wife (please!). She's a massive music fan, we both are, and have very diverse tastes. But the only MJ songs she really likes are TWYMMF, Black or White, If You Don't Love Me.

Not only that but the house is never clean and she can't cook.

She ruined my life to be honest.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You know what I never understand? How can people not like MJ's music. I don't mean so called 'haters' I mean intelligent people who love music but don't really enjoy his music.

Not because of the media or his tarnished image, I mean they truthfully don't enjoy it.

I suppose any big fan of any artist can say the same. But I don't get it with MJ.

i think whatever they say, they prejudged, and they have fallen for the media thing, while they don't mention it, it's playing on their mind, they listen with a close mind, they don't want to be impressed the thought terrifies them, they feel horrified that they might have condemed someone who has excellence in a field they may have some knowledge in. Most of the musicians i know that like MJ, have always been at least casual fans towards him, even through the dark times.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Take my wife (please!). She's a massive music fan, we both are, and have very diverse tastes. But the only MJ songs she really likes are TWYMMF, Black or White, If You Don't Love Me.

Not only that but the house is never clean and she can't cook.

She ruined my life to be honest.

:hysterical:

My boyfriend loves his music, and when I asked him what his favourite song was, he said Beat It, but at least he had the decency to say he knows it's cliche to say it! lol

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The worst thing I hear is "he's not that great really".

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The worst thing I hear is "he's not that great really".

yeah i know what you mean, it's the other supposedly all time great act that arn't that great really, or they become so when you add MJ into the mix. They are all close minded though. Mj was all about emotion and connecting with people, if they don't let him in, then they'll see everything with a blindfold.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

what happened on maxjack ?

the section "another day" is gone ! ?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It's those rarities that I hunger for....I've mentioned before...I can listen to the Dangerous deposition over and over again, simply to hear him sing the little snippet of Dangerous, Billie Jean, the beatboxing of those songs...How he explains the compositions of his songs...I CRAVE this stuff....lol

If he can connect to his audience the way he did with his larger than life performances with all the effects and what not, imagine what an intimate setting could bring?

He had so much more to give us....His potential was limitless....It really was..

I can't let myself imagine that for fear I may explode.

Sadly, it would never have happened. He was always about bigger & better not stripping things down. I think This Is It was as intimate as it would have got.

Arklove, I hear you. I also would love an unplugged concert. Can you imagine him singing Human Nature in front of your face?

But, like what Tony said, a small gig never appeals to Michael. He's larger than life. He graduated from small theatre to gigantic stadium before he's an adult. He always likes bigger and better show.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The worst thing I hear is "he's not that great really".

A lot of the time, it's because people don't like to admitting liking popular artists because they like to be seen as being different.

That's why in the 90s it wasn't as cool to be an MJ fan anymore. When Dangerous was released apart from the initial massive interest it didn't blow up like Bad did, but after each single people couldn't argue anymore and it ended up selling as much as Bad. But people weren't as vocal about being a fan. i remember laughing because over a 2 year period I kept finding it appearing in my friend's CD collection.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Honestly, I don't know many people who don't love his music. I worked in the music industry for the best part of 5 years and all of the muso's that I knew, and still know, have the utmost respect for his music. That's why the current debate strikes at the heart of the one thing that nobody was able to screw with, ie. his talent. Now you have people asking all sorts of questions, 'man his voice really deteriorated', 'man he was still self-absorbed, singing songs about himself and the media', 'man his songwriting was shit towards the end - 'she's working two jobs, she works in a restaurant night and day''.

This has got to be sorted sooner rather than later. Have just been reading Howard Mann's comments regarding the Estate. Respect.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Honestly, I don't know many people who don't love his music. I worked in the music industry for the best part of 5 years and all of the muso's that I knew, and still know, have the utmost respect for his music. That's why the current debate strikes at the heart of the one thing that nobody was able to screw with, ie. his talent. Now you have people asking all sorts of questions, 'man his voice really deteriorated', 'man he was still self-absorbed, singing songs about himself and the media', 'man his songwriting was shit towards the end - 'she's working two jobs, she works in a restaurant night and day''.

This has got to be sorted sooner rather than later. Have just been reading Howard Mann's comments regarding the Estate. Respect.

Yeah but over time, no-one will remember these 3 tracks. When people discuss his legacy, it'll still be primarily his 70s, 80s & 90s work.

I agree that the first posthumous album could have added to his legacy rather than detracted from it if handled properly, I have no worries for his reputation.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Lately, when reading the lyrics to the Cascio tracks, I have the feeling that MJ wasn't that involved in the creative process as he should've been. Personally, I think he recorded the album's worth of material out of wanting to give Eddie confidence. Maybe there was one or two songs he would've considered, but I doubt that most of those songs would've made it into an album. Eddie probably thought that he was legitimately working with the King of Pop and that's why he registered the songs.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Honestly, I don't know many people who don't love his music. I worked in the music industry for the best part of 5 years and all of the muso's that I knew, and still know, have the utmost respect for his music. That's why the current debate strikes at the heart of the one thing that nobody was able to screw with, ie. his talent. Now you have people asking all sorts of questions, 'man his voice really deteriorated', 'man he was still self-absorbed, singing songs about himself and the media', 'man his songwriting was shit towards the end - 'she's working two jobs, she works in a restaurant night and day''.

This has got to be sorted sooner rather than later. Have just been reading Howard Mann's comments regarding the Estate. Respect.

Ah, it's a shame, for me most of the musicians i know only have at best medium respect for him. But you get some that come a lot now and again, who you can have a great conversation about his work. I was playing stranger in moscow on the piano the other day in a rehearsal with my band, i don't talk about MJ much with them, but the singer went, 'i know that song, that's stranger in moscow isn't it'. So then i went and lectured him for hours about the genius of the track aha.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Lately, when reading the lyrics to the Cascio tracks, I have the feeling that MJ wasn't that involved in the creative process as he should've been.

I have the feeling that Michael was involved exactly as he should have been... completely absent!

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

In terms of your beliefs, that's fine by me. As for my beliefs, I'd say he was involved very little in the creative process and basically half-assed the recording, if only because... Well, people wouldn't believe it was him if it leaked. That seems pretty logical. BTW, does anyone know the exact date of when "Hold My Hand" was recorded? More specifically, was it before or after MJ's stay with the Cascios?

 

[MJRemixed]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I don't think Mj was involved in the Cascio tracks AT ALL.
He was friends with Cascio, to hang out with them, he did not see or interact with them on a professional-music level.

Goofing around on a piano and watching them sing songs as children doesn't count.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ Agreed..The songs are very superficial compared to what we're used to....

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

OK, I'll go as far to say that I agree with you on that, Arklove. I think majority of the writing was by Eddie, who is still a novice in the industry. MJ probably just recorded them (half-assed) to give confidence to Eddie, and not to seriously consider, at least not at that stage.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

A lot of the time, it's because people don't like to admitting liking popular artists because they like to be seen as being different.

That's why in the 90s it wasn't as cool to be an MJ fan anymore. When Dangerous was released apart from the initial massive interest it didn't blow up like Bad did, but after each single people couldn't argue anymore and it ended up selling as much as Bad. But people weren't as vocal about being a fan. i remember laughing because over a 2 year period I kept finding it appearing in my friend's CD collection.

I totally agreed with the bold part. Many people want to be perceived as having "better taste." To me, one of the reasons singers like Josh Gorban and Susan Boyle are selling albums is becasue people think what they sing are more sophisticated than pop songs.

Michael Jackson was the best selling artist of all time. He's popular. People think he's commercial, not artistic. How wrong is that?

Seriously, as many of you just said in the last few pages, Michael Jackson wrote some of the most profound songs in music history. He's a genius, an underrated one.

I hope one day history will do him justice. We truly need a in-depth documentary on the man's genuis.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Arklove, I hear you. I also would love an unplugged concert. Can you imagine him singing Human Nature in front of your face?

But, like what Tony said, a small gig never appeals to Michael. He's larger than life. He graduated from small theatre to gigantic stadium before he's an adult. He always likes bigger and better show.

Human Nature ....wow....Yes, that song is from heaven...:wub: I wonder if he ever really considered a more intimate setting though?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Human Nature ....wow....Yes, that song is from heaven...:wub: I wonder if he ever really considered a more intimate setting though?

I don't know. I highly doubt. Of course, I'd love to see him in a more intimate setting. You know, just him and nothing else. Just him singing songs like Human Nature, Speechless, Lady In My Life in front of me and let his silky vocal carass my ears... God... the thought of it sent me to Heaven...

But, Michael Jackson is not just a great vocalist, he's a force of nature. Such an intimate setting may be too limiting to him...