Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Dorian]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

No, they are not. The Cascio tracks are Jason Malachi tracks.

Not necessarily Malachi, it can be anyone.Just that people are obsessed with him.I asked once:

Why do people insist it's Malachi?It can be very well another impersonator that it's unknown.

 

[larry141094]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not necessarily Malachi, it can be anyone.Just that people are obsessed with him.I asked once:

Why do people insist it's Malachi?It can be very well another impersonator that it's unknown.

They insist it's him because they don't know anyone else that can do a Michael Jackson voice with such clarity, but its not necessarily anyone, it could be Michael Jackson, just that people are obsessed with this conspiracy that they can't clear their freaking heads

 

[larry141094]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not necessarily Malachi, it can be anyone.Just that people are obsessed with him.I asked once:

Why do people insist it's Malachi?It can be very well another impersonator that it's unknown.

They insist it's him because they don't know anyone else that can do a Michael Jackson voice with such clarity, but its not necessarily anyone, it could be Michael Jackson, just that people are obsessed with this conspiracy that they can't clear their freaking heads

 

[TPIMaster]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not necessarily Malachi, it can be anyone.Just that people are obsessed with him.I asked once:

Why do people insist it's Malachi?It can be very well another impersonator that it's unknown.

Why wouldn't we insist it's Malachi when we have over 13 minutes of comparisons that show it's him? I have at least another minute on my "cutting room floor" that I will at some point release too.

As I also pointed out in another topic that was deleted recently, the name "Jason Malachi" was associated with these tracks before we even heard them.

 

[larry141094]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not necessarily Malachi, it can be anyone.Just that people are obsessed with him.I asked once:

Why do people insist it's Malachi?It can be very well another impersonator that it's unknown.

They insist it's him because they don't know anyone else that can do a Michael Jackson voice with such clarity, but its not necessarily anyone, it could be Michael Jackson, just that people are obsessed with this conspiracy that they can't clear their freaking heads

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

We should make a petition and contact all major artists! Jermaine tried, but wasn't backed. Maybe it was too soon. It requires lots of preparation.

(disclaimer : as you all know I'm not commenting on the vocal controversy anymore)

I agree with you that a tribute concert would be wonderful , however I also think family's involvement and/or not working together with the Estate had been the problem. Honestly I think everyone would agree that Jermaine's tribute was rushed and wasn't even properly planned (due to location and artists). Family also backed up several questionable efforts as well (one being having an organizer that claimed that Michael would come back at such tribute) so I kinda think that it's a little tainted for now. As you said it requires a lot of organization to do a big and deserving tribute to Michael. At this time I think a tribute concert for Michael would be similar to the one done for Princess Diana - at 10th anniversary of his death with major artists widely televised and all proceeds going to charity.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You know i can imagine Michael shaking his head at all this, his fans bashing his music and calling it fake, the reason nothing has been done and nothing ever will be done is because the songs are him, why is it so hard to conceive that Michael was "Marking" or that he wasn't well on the recordings? It really is just that simple, Bumper seems to like bagging on the Cascio song names like it's silly or something, but theres plenty of weird and wacky MJ song's that are unreleased, "Pyramid Girl", "Red Eye", "D.I.E", "Buffalo Bill", what are these fakes cause of their names? Of course not.

The Cascio tracks are real Michael Jackson tracks, there is too many expert opinions and people who worked with Michael recently who say it is him to just turn your back because the songs don't "Sound like him".

Regardless what SONY/Estate say

Are you saying that:

the Cascio vocals = vocals on any previous or current MJ songs

and at the same time that:

the Cascio vocals are less equal on any Jason Malachi previous or current song?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

(disclaimer : as you all know I'm not commenting on the vocal controversy anymore)

You never have.

I agree with you that a tribute concert would be wonderful , however I also think family's involvement and/or not working together with the Estate had been the problem. Honestly I think everyone would agree that Jermaine's tribute was rushed and wasn't even properly planned (due to location and artists). Family also backed up several questionable efforts as well (one being having an organizer that claimed that Michael would come back at such tribute) so I kinda think that it's a little tainted for now. As you said it requires a lot of organization to do a big and deserving tribute to Michael. At this time I think a tribute concert for Michael would be similar to the one done for Princess Diana - at 10th anniversary of his death with major artists widely televised and all proceeds going to charity.

I just hope they organize a tribute like no one ever had with the biggest names ever.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They insist it's him because they don't know anyone else that can do a Michael Jackson voice with such clarity, but its not necessarily anyone, it could be Michael Jackson, just that people are obsessed with this conspiracy that they can't clear their freaking heads

I just want to point out that I am not obsessed with this conspiracy. I have always wanted to just believe that it's Michael on the songs and move on. I have never wanted it to be Jason Malachi on the songs.

I think it's Jason because the voices match up so much. The vibrato, the timbre, the husk, it's all the same as Jason as opposed to being the same as Michael Jackson. That's my personal analysis, though, not out of obsession but just out of general honesty with myself that I cannot deny.

The whole issue is really quite disturbing to me, sickening, sad, and it does not make me happy, this is not some hobby or obsession of mine to think that Jason Malachi is probably singing on an official Michael Jackson release.

It brings me no joy whatsoever so I'm sort of offended by your comments. Oh well, though, wouldn't be the first time that has happened in this thread!

Just thought I'd point that out, though. I have defended these songs. I thought it was likely Michael until I really thought about it for months and months and listened to Jason's music and Michael's. This was just a personal conclusion that I and many many other Michael Jackson fans have come to. This is just because we are fans of Michael Jackson, not because we are obsessed with this controversy.

I mean I guess maybe people are more obsessed after the fact that they find out Jason is singing because they suddenly feel passionate to defend Michael's legacy. So you can see where the behavior comes off as obsessive but it's all done for truth, for Michael.

Sorry if that's kind of hard to follow, it's still early in the morning for me. I don't mean disrespect to you, larry141094, just wanted to explain my stance on your comments, hopefully you can realize that it's not out of obsession with this controversy and people wanting to hear Jason at all.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Great post Aniram!

I don't know how many times we have said that having doubt on the authenticity of the Cascio tracks does not bring any pleasure. We have nothing to gain, but 12 songs to lose. If Michael is shaking his head now, it's not because of his fans' opinions that ths songs are not genuine, it's because his Estate would approve to include songs that he would never ever considered releasing in their respective conditions.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I actually think that Larry is obsessed in wanting to hear Michael on those tracks.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

(disclaimer : as you all know I'm not commenting on the vocal controversy anymore)

I agree with you that a tribute concert would be wonderful , however I also think family's involvement and/or not working together with the Estate had been the problem. Honestly I think everyone would agree that Jermaine's tribute was rushed and wasn't even properly planned (due to location and artists). Family also backed up several questionable efforts as well (one being having an organizer that claimed that Michael would come back at such tribute) so I kinda think that it's a little tainted for now. As you said it requires a lot of organization to do a big and deserving tribute to Michael. At this time I think a tribute concert for Michael would be similar to the one done for Princess Diana - at 10th anniversary of his death with major artists widely televised and all proceeds going to charity.

You never have.



I just hope they organize a tribute like no one ever had with the biggest names ever.

I agree that the family is not going to be the best party to organize a tribute concert because of the lack of respect people have in them.

Like Bumper, I just hope that a tribute that does Michael's legacy justice will be held one day.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have really tried. I'll admit, sometimes I listen to them and I think hey maybe it is Michael! But it's just too bizarre to me, I will always have that uneasy feeling, it will never sound completely right. I'll always realize that there are copy-and-pasted vocals and they are so stacked that it's hard to tell, so without any definitive proof that it's him I can't really conclude that it is.

So therefore for me to conclude that Michael Jackson is singing, the only way without some actual proof from the Estate would be a comparison of the songs with one of Michael Jackson's older songs so that we can prove his voice matches. No, it doesn't have to sound 100% like anything he has recorded before, not 100%, but at least 80-90 would be good, maybe even 70. Not 40 or 50 in places, or even less. Sometimes it sounds nothing like Michael!

And that vibrato always sounds completely foreign. For a lot of people the voice the entire time is probably only about 20-30% like Michael's once they have identified the two different voices properly. The 20% is the obvious similarity the voices must have to fool some people, but they are definitely different.

Anyway, all I'd need is some comparisons, yet no one can do that. Yet people can do that really simply with Jason Malachi's work. I can see each Cascio track taken and compared for about 10 minutes to Jason Malachi's music individually. Not one with Michael's music. That is very suspicious to me. It makes me raise my eyebrows, makes me wonder. Not because I'm obsessed, but because how can you not wonder?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Good post Aniram.....It's not an obsession...I wasn't familiar with Jason's voice at all until I gradually heard all of these comparisons...Whether I hear Jason's voice or not, doesn't change the fact that I DON'T hear Michael on those tracks....But when you listen to the comparisons, it's hard to ignore that we're hearing the exact same voice.....It's not an obsession, it's a reality that's a bit hard to escape...

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Like you, I also wasn't familiar with Jason really until after this controversy. I had only heard Let Me Let Go maybe four times and when I heard Breaking News I instantly thought, "Hey this sounds like that Let Me Let Go song" The voice, melody, production were all the same to me. And this was not even knowing Jason Malachi's name at the time. Just knowing there was a song called 'Let Me Let Go' that was supposedly a Michael Jackson song recorded in 2007.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Like you, I also wasn't familiar with Jason really until after this controversy. I had only heard Let Me Let Go maybe four times and when I heard Breaking News I instantly thought, "Hey this sounds like that Let Me Let Go song" The voice, melody, production were all the same to me. And this was not even knowing Jason Malachi's name at the time. Just knowing there was a song called 'Let Me Let Go' that was supposedly a Michael Jackson song recorded in 2007.

Yeah, when I first heard BN, I didn't think Jason at all....I was exactly like Mike in Bumper's signature.....lol...I mean, I was like, 'Did they stream the wrong song, the wrong artist, what the hell?'.....So, I wasn't thinking of WHO it could be.....I just knew it wasn't Michael....

When I heard KYHU, same thing....someone told me it leaked and they said, 'it's 100% Michael'....so, I was like, ok, great, can't wait to hear it....So, when I did hear it, I was the same thing...'umm...this isn't him'.....Then before I heard Monster, I had finally heard some Jason songs, and when I heard Monster, it sounded exactly like Let Me Let Go.....and in all reality, I felt worse than I did when BN was streamed.....

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I remember hearing the preview of Monster that came out, and while I was excited for the beat of it, I don't remember being able to tell that it was Michael singing or that I particularly thought it was that great or I was very excited for it.

When I first heard Breaking News, I had been so super unimaginably excited, glowing and beaming, ready to hear new Michael and was so disappointed. Not even because I didn't think it was him singing necessarily, but just it wasn't a very good song. He kept saying his own name over and over, I'm like how can I listen to this?

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I remember the morning BN streamed.

"Everybody" (first line in BN)

JASON. Took me 1 second to figure out.

 

[larry141094]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I actually think that Larry is obsessed in wanting to hear Michael on those tracks.

Of course just turn it on me cause you can't come up with anything original.

Look i'll tell you something, we can not trust that we hear Michael or Jason or neither on the tracks! it just isn't plausible, our ears are not attuned to be able to sort out things like this, it's just scientific fact, one case of our senses failing miserably is a woman who was raped recorded it with her sony walkman, and she tried to identify the rapist via voice line up, she put a man in jail, and he was released 10 years later after DNA evidence proved it wasn't him, and to this day when she hears the voice of the real rapist she can't hear it on her tape.

Im sorry guys but saying "you dont hear Michael" isn't plausible, and if people went with feelings like this during the MJ 2005 trial, then he would be alive, in jail right now, if you want to discover the truth you must be logical, following your feelings won't get you anywhere

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, wooohooo! Yeah baby! Waaahooo! When I first heard BN, I didn't think Jason at all....I immediately knew it was Mike! Bumper's signature is crap! .....lol...I mean, I was like, 'Am i going to wear a string? The wrong size! What the hell?'.....So, I wasn't thinking of WHAT I was wearing.....I just knew it was Michael....

When I heard "your butt is mine" in BAD (or was it in BED?), same thing....someone told me it leaked all over, 'it's 100% sure'....so, I was like, ok, great, can't wait to enjoy it....So, when I did enjoy it, I was mumbling ...'umm...this isn't mmmmm, ummm .... mmmmm'.....Then before I saw the monster, I had finally what I wanted: some thongs, and when I bit the monster, it tasted exactly like strawberry.....and in all reality, I felt better than I ever had when my thong was removed.....

Still need a shrink?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

TPIMaster pointed out that the name Jason Malachi was brought up before fans even have a chance to listen to the tracks. He was contacted before the album release. So, we are not the one who started associating Jason Malachi to the Cascio tracks.

When I listen to the songs, I don't aim to find the similarities between Jason and the Cascio vocalist. I try to find Michael. I try to feel him like I always do. And, I just can't no matter how hard I try. I tried to convince myself I probably would hear Michael when I listen with better set of speakers, the CD may sound better, or the early version sound clearer. At the end, the voice is just not Michael's voice. I, honestly, really want the songs to be genuine. But, they are not.

Like what Aniram said, how can one not wonder? Proofs of Michael's involvement in all other tracks on Michael gradually surface. From handwritten notes, to Michael's conversation with Neff U, to Michael's voicemail, to handwritten lyrics, to demo of Hollywood Tonight. Yes, demo on demo does exist. But (a big but), absolutely nothing on the Cascio tracks is provided. Even Joe Vogel pointed out that the Cascios should have be more forth-coming with evidence.

We all heard Michael's demos (Fall Again is a one-take demo), Michael's incomplete songs (Hollywood Tonight is incomplete with only two verses and chorus recorded), songs recorded circa the same time (HMH and WBSS 2008), songs Michael recorded in his late 40's (Best of Joy), how he sounded just days before his passing (TII rehearsal), how can we conclude that Michael could sound like what he sounded in the Cascio tracks from above?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I remember hearing the preview of Monster that came out, and while I was excited for the beat of it, I don't remember being able to tell that it was Michael singing or that I particularly thought it was that great or I was very excited for it.

When I first heard Breaking News, I had been so super unimaginably excited, glowing and beaming, ready to hear new Michael and was so disappointed. Not even because I didn't think it was him singing necessarily, but just it wasn't a very good song. He kept saying his own name over and over, I'm like how can I listen to this?

Yes, it wasn't just the vocals, it was the style of songs....BN's bassline sounded like something Michael would have done....but other than that, the repeating of the name I always found really strange.....I mean, it's just not something I think he would have ever done....The thing is, Michael changed his style a lot, and could be unpredictable and exciting, but as fans, you can just tell when it's not something he would do....you know what I mean? The lyrics to all of those songs are so weak, really they are....They don't make sense, and they just don't mean anything, and don't sound like it's coming from his heart, like any song he's ever written...It's just these songs are so far off from his soul and his natural musical essence...his print is missing from it altogether...that special Michael Jackson feeling you get......I've never felt that missing before, even if it's a song I don't particular like.....It's not just the voice that's missing, it's the totality of everything we've ever felt listening to Michael Jackson the majority of our lives.....

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Of course just turn it on me cause you can't come up with anything original.

Look i'll tell you something, we can not trust that we hear Michael or Jason or neither on the tracks! it just isn't plausible, our ears are not attuned to be able to sort out things like this, it's just scientific fact, one case of our senses failing miserably is a woman who was raped recorded it with her sony walkman, and she tried to identify the rapist via voice line up, she put a man in jail, and he was released 10 years later after DNA evidence proved it wasn't him, and to this day when she hears the voice of the real rapist she can't hear it on her tape.

Im sorry guys but saying "you dont hear Michael" isn't plausible, and if people went with feelings like this during the MJ 2005 trial, then he would be alive, in jail right now, if you want to discover the truth you must be logical, following your feelings won't get you anywhere

But the comparisons are evidence. Our ears can hear the similarity and difference when comparison vocals are placed side by side. That's the point.

Do you have an answer why we can spend at least 10 minutes with each Cascio song and Jason Malachi songs and compare but we can't with any of Michael's work? Where's the answer to that, anyone?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Of course just turn it on me cause you can't come up with anything original.

Look i'll tell you something, we can not trust that we hear Michael or Jason or neither on the tracks! it just isn't plausible, our ears are not attuned to be able to sort out things like this, it's just scientific fact, one case of our senses failing miserably is a woman who was raped recorded it with her sony walkman, and she tried to identify the rapist via voice line up, she put a man in jail, and he was released 10 years later after DNA evidence proved it wasn't him, and to this day when she hears the voice of the real rapist she can't hear it on her tape.

Im sorry guys but saying "you dont hear Michael" isn't plausible, and if people went with feelings like this during the MJ 2005 trial, then he would be alive, in jail right now, if you want to discover the truth you must be logical, following your feelings won't get you anywhere

If your argument is that we are obsessed, what makes you less obsessed?

Wow the comparison! Now, if that raped woman had previously been listening to the rapist all her life on all possible tones and tunes, don't you think that she would have known much better his voice. Stop comparing what is absolutely uncomparable. Your argument would suggest that we had never heard Michael before the Cascio songs appeared.

Your logic is still rusty.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yes, Larry, let's hear your comparisons

 

[larry141094]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But the comparisons are evidence. Our ears can hear the similarity and difference when comparison vocals are placed side by side. That's the point.

Do you have an answer why we can spend at least 10 minutes with each Cascio song and Jason Malachi songs and compare but we can't with any of Michael's work? Where's the answer to that, anyone?

Didn't you read what i just said? a woman who RECORDED the voice of her rapist, the police got suspects to say the same lines that he did, and she picked the wrong person! even when the person that really raped her was there! even now as there is evidence that the person she hears is innocent, she still hears him.

IT IS NOT PLAUSIBLE

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This is Michael Jackson we're talking about. We've been listening to his voice our entire lives. I read what you said. It's not plausable? Why can't we compare with Michael Jackson's older songs then and we can with Malachi? In my opinion, your argument there is incredibly weak and wouldn't work with anyone here. One example of a lady not being able to tell the difference and then using that as your scientific evidence for every case, even Michael Jackson, is sort of a stretch to me.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry, have you HEARD those five comparisons made by TPIMaster?

 

[larry141094]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It doesn't matter, she heard the same voice a million times and was still convinced otherwise, and it IS comparable because it's the same process that you and i go through when comparing the Cascio tracks to MJ tracks, EXACTLY the same FLAWED process

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

It doesn't matter, she heard the same voice a million times and was still convinced otherwise, and it IS comparable because it's the same process that you and i go through when comparing the Cascio tracks to MJ tracks, EXACTLY the same FLAWED process

In that case even Barry White might actually be Céline Dion, you never know, better not trust our ears.