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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

TPIMaster, are there still somewhere streaming videos of your comparisons that work?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thank you, Willy!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Thanks mjjesamor :)



Thanks azsummergirl :)



Thanks love is magical. :)



How sad.



Sweet words.
Click to expand...

Show off!:throwingstones::closedeyes::glare:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I've never, in my history of being on the internet, seen videos be removed so quickly from such different sources. They really don't want the comparisons being shared.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

i pity the person whose job is to lurk varius MJ forums, find out the links, go to the various downloading sites and request to have the links removed.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks girl! I`ve joined it :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
i pity the person whose job is to lurk varius MJ forums, find out the links, go to the various downloading sites and request to have the links removed.
Click to expand...

His name is Brad Roberts and he works for Eddie. He's his business manager. Poor guy. Hi Brad! :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

TPIMaster, can you give me the text of your new siggy? I mean with the url link and everything?

Sorry, I'm at work now. It's easier if I can just copy your siggy. Aniram showed me how, but I'm still a little confused as to how to link to the right post.

Hi Brad, wish you better luck with your next job! :cheeky:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^ hahaha....hi Brad! :wild: I'm sure you're having a blast! ;)

Love, the comparisons don't work in TPI's siggy anymore :( Well, most of them don't work...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's still the same link. About 10 of them still seem to work, so I'm not reuploading yet.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Bumper, your lyrics analysis is truly amazing.

What we have with Cascio:

- the most completed songs MJ left
- the most controversial sounding vocals MJ left
- the most processing needing songs MJ left (pitch, melodyne)
- the most hilarious lyrics MJ has ever written or sung
- the weakest vocals in regards of plain power MJ ever produced
- the most excuses ever made to explain the sound of a MJ record (health, poor studio, shower, tube)
- the most akward/weird moments in MJ songs (vibrato, pronounciation, lyrics)
- the rare occurance that no raw vocals/tracks exist and that the BN acapella lacks usual headphone/tapping/snapping sounds
- according to Korgnex the first time in history, and then for 12 songs in a row, MJ tried a completely new vocal style and succeded brillantly and miserably at the same time.

All of this is concentrated on 12 songs.
We could search for "Casio Moments" throughout MJs career.
There are two moments, that got me puzzled back in 2003.

1) the strange effect on the vocals in "One more Chance" (here at 1:41)
2) the strange sampling of MJ material in "One more Chance" (here at 0:56 - 1:00)

These are most cascioeque parts I found. And still, this is so clearly Michael Jackson ...
The thing is: you instantly notice these parts, they stick out. Whereas at Cascio, there are no glitches or artifacts, it simply sounds like someone else. And why should there be glitches, when those songs were the most completed? Well, there should be audible glitches, when lead vocals (!) consist of 2 persons.

The whole "2 persons" thing just comes up, because some parts do sound more like MJ and some do less. But you can never actually hear a transition of some sort. IMO this 2 persons on the lead thing is totally bogus. And then: why would they do or need to do such a thing as melting down 2 lead vocals into one? And this should be a "complete" MJ record then? And HOW BAD could those parts have been, that MJ obviously f*cked up, so that someone else had to fill in? Hello?

Also, they had to speed MJ up in order to fit the music. WHAT ? In order to fit the music? What music? MJs music? What music has MJ sung to then? And why did Teddy dramatically change it / sped it up? These should be MJs most complete recordings? Why would they take weak MJ vocals and make them even weaker by speeding them up in order to fit with newly produced music? People, this is BS.

Wake up. Please. Please!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Round of applause!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And why would a very good friend of MJ release recordings of the gone King of Pop that are so weak (because MJ was obviously so ill and non-interested sitting in the shower) that he had to fatten it up / complete it with James Porte's voice? And then speed it up to make it fit Teddy's music with all the added adlibs from previous recordings?

Money.

Why would 3T try to stop this?

Money? What would they gain from it? They do it for love. It's as simple as that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

well, MJ life got ruined when he was alive... now his upcoming music gets ruined by ppl(fans!) thinking its not him, shame...
alot of the fans didnt realize, that the songs which MJ has sung in This is It (those few who were live and not overdubbed), sounded different compared to the album version.
due to the fact that voice changes if u get older (best of joy @studio!), imo there was sometimes MUCH difference (even to older live concerts). i was sometimes a bit "shocked" when i heard how much his voice has changed.

to sum it up:
cascio tracks are very ROUGH demos, badly recorded, processed as hell. he didnt even try to sound good rly. in addition to that the "older" voice.
and those copy&paste vocals fucked the rest up...

most ppl cant get over it, that MJ didnt always sound like in the 80s.

ps:
ive forgotten to mention, thriller got actually recorded by this taxi driver who imitates MJ songs, he sounds 80% like him :/. pity there wasnt internet, every1 would have questioned the tracks LOL.
thats the same bullshit like jason malachi and possibly recorded cascio tracks.

(dont see it as too serious, just my opinion about it, cause i cant understand this whole thread and its getting really boring/silly. :( )
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Grent said:
And why would a very good friend of MJ release recordings of the gone King of Pop that are so weak (because MJ was obviously so ill and non-interested sitting in the shower) that he had to fatten it up / complete it with James Porte's voice? And then speed it up to make it fit Teddy's music with all the added adlibs from previous recordings?

Money.

Why would 3T try to stop this?

Money? What would they gain from it? They do it for love. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...


So , what's happened with 3T now?

How come we have not heard from them since then?
What have they done about it since then?
don't they care about their uncle's legacy anymore?

Care to comment!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

>> "he didnt even try to sound good rly."

And still, the singer of those songs really tries hard, don't you think? It does not sound AT ALL like someone, who is just singing along in a session between lunch and coffee.


>> "badly recorded"

Listen to the MJ recorded through the telephone. Now THAT's badly recorded. Still everyone agrees it's him.


>> "best of joy"

I'm quite sure, this is pitched up too. Because it sounds different and I'm not sure he was able to get that high anymore. Still, it sounds like Michael Jackson.


>> "like in the 80s"

It's not at all about that. He does just simply not sound like himself. Like 2001 or 2003 or 2009.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

bluesky said:
So , what's happened with 3T now?

How come we have not heard from them since then?
What have they done about it since then?
don't they care about their uncle's legacy anymore?

Care to comment!
Click to expand...

I'm wondering too. They might feel helpless just as we do.
I think they tried really hard (without putting it too far out into the media). But then stopped because it was too late anyway.
I think, they don't want to get too deeply involved in the mess, because ... well, because many think, they have false intentions.

Still, I'm feeling this is not the end about Cascio in terms of what the Jacksons have to say.
Still, they are helpless. They said what they had to say and alarmed people, but nothing happened.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

nemes1s- said:
well, MJ life got ruined when he was alive... now his upcoming music gets ruined by ppl(fans!) thinking its not him, shame...
Click to expand...

So, Michael's music is ruined by his fans??? How so? To you, having doubts means destroying Michael's legacy? Fans have to behave like mindless sheep who accept and praise whatever released by Sony? Give me a break. Don't go there. Stop guilt tripping people. You don't need to agree with the people who have doubts. But, please stop accusing us for ruinning Michael's music. We love his music too much. His music is sacred to us.

Birchey, a staff who has doubt himself, can come up with some of the best mixes of Michael's music.

nemes1s- said:
alot of the fans didnt realize, that the songs which MJ has sung in This is It (those few who were live and not overdubbed), sounded different compared to the album version.
Click to expand...

The live version of Dirty Diana performed by Michael in 1998 sounded different from the album version. Many live renditions sound different from the album version. I don't know what point you are trying to make here.

I saw TII 18 times in theatre and watched the Blu-ray I-don't-know-how-many-times at home. He sounded EXCELLENT in Human Nature and IJCSLY. Nothing like the vocalists in the Cascio tracks.

nemes1s- said:
due to the fact that voice changes if u get older (best of joy @studio!), imo there was sometimes MUCH difference (even to older live concerts). i was sometimes a bit "shocked" when i heard how much his voice has changed.
Click to expand...

Funny how you use Best of Joy as an example. May I suggest you to listen Best of Joy first, then Someone Put Your Hand Out? I wonder whether you are "shocked" by the difference. The voice is almost IDENTICAL. Of course, Michael's voice changed which is due to natural aging. But, his voice at his late-40's didn't sound like an impersonator. Michael Jackson at age 49 sounded like Michael Jackson. Listen to HMH and WBSS 2008. He sounded like Michael Jackson.

nemes1s- said:
to sum it up:
cascio tracks are very ROUGH demos, badly recorded, processed as hell. he didnt even try to sound good rly. in addition to that the "older" voice.
and those copy&paste vocals fucked the rest up...
Click to expand...

How do you know Michael didn't even try to sound good really?

You seem to forget Michael was a vocalist's vocalist. He's a genius. He sounded good when he opened his mouth. His singing ability is something he's born with which he developed and finetuned throughout his life. He's a master phraser. The way he conveyed emotions is unique. Some of these singing skills are so woven in his being that I doubt he really needs to "try" to sound himself.

nemes1s- said:
most ppl cant get over it, that MJ didnt always sound like in the 80s.
Click to expand...

Why do people need to get over the fact that Michael didn't sound like he's in the 80's? Michael sounded BETTER in the 90's and the 2000's. I, for one, am glad that Michael didn't sound like the 80's.

Sounding better, more mature and more soulful doesn't mean sounding worse. I actually prefer the way he sounded in Invincibe than Thriller.

nemes1s- said:
ps:
ive forgotten to mention, thriller got actually recorded by this taxi driver who imitates MJ songs, he sounds 80% like him :/. pity there wasnt internet, every1 would have questioned the tracks LOL.
thats the same bullshit like jason malachi and possibly recorded cascio tracks.
Click to expand...

What is your point? Over the years, I have seen thousands of fan covers of Michael's songs, on-line, on the street, etc... Why would people have doubt? I don't want to repeat myself here. If you follow this thread or just read the post above you, is it that difficult to understand why so many of us have doubts? The Cascio tracks' origin is mysterious to say the least.

nemes1s- said:
(dont see it as too serious, just my opinion about it, cause i cant understand this whole thread and its getting really boring/silly. :( )
Click to expand...

You left a post and don't want people to take it seriously. Fine.

You can't understand this whole thread and feel it's really boring and silly. Yet, you find it worth while to spend your precious time to leave a post. Funny!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

His point regarding live performances was, that he sounded different, when he was NOT in a studio.
So, because the Cascio basement was no (real) studio, he must have sounded different.

The thing is, MJ never did not sound identical when live or studio or 80ies or 00s.
But - he sounded like Michael Jackson. Take two songs, where he sounded as different as possible. Let's say DSTYGE and Beautiful Girl. Let's assume the distance between these two songs is a mile. Then the distance between Hold my Hand (2008) and ALL THE 12 Cascio songs (2007), is 10 miles. (Well, maybe a bit less as they faked MJ pretty well)

I don't understand, that people assume, it's Michael Jackson, although "he" sounds like never ever before AND after. I wish, more people wouldn't give a damn about money and tell the truth. I am sure, that Teddy Riley knows, that the Cascio songs are fake. And I'm also sure, that Rodney Jerkins won't speak out as loud as he probably wants to, because ... well, there will be more of his songs on upcoming albums.

The good thing is, time will bring more and more clues in the doubters favor, not the other way round.
Wait and see.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Grent said:
I'm wondering too. They might feel helpless just as we do.
I think they tried really hard (without putting it too far out into the media). But then stopped because it was too late anyway.
I think, they don't want to get too deeply involved in the mess, because ... well, because many think, they have false intentions.

Still, I'm feeling this is not the end about Cascio in terms of what the Jacksons have to say.
Still, they are helpless. They said what they had to say and alarmed people, but nothing happened.
Click to expand...


Helpless??
They tried really hard? How so?
Too late? and why you guys still here?
too involved in this Mess you said? So why they start all this Mess in the first place??

they + the Jacksons are the one that can help you guys , they have the connection , the power, the money...
and what have they done so far? except starting all this mess by tweeting around..

Instead they are now are Very busy making deals and money?
Joe selling some bad taste and cheapy wines, Katherine selling flowers, making deals with some porn guys and all the lawsuits with the estate, etc.

Make me wonder if they really care about their uncle's or Michael's legacy!
Just something to think about......
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

TPIMaster or Pentum, this post is directed at you.

I wanted to request something if you ever can do this for me and for us the fans.

Your comparison videos are excellent! But what I think would do some extra benefit is also comparisons of maybe Hollywood Tonight, Best Of Joy and Hold My Hand with previous Michael Jackson works. Pentum did this a while back, he made a clip that compared Best Of Joy to Someone Put Your Hand Out, One More Chance, and maybe another I can't think of, but it worked wonders to prove a point to me.

I think if you could find examples in Michael's previous work to compare to the real songs also so that people can see the difference, that'd be awesome!

If you could even just try it with Hollywood Tonight, that song is known to have some controversy and I don't think I've seen a comparison to prove it's legitimacy like I saw with Best Of Joy.

Hope you consider doing this! I think you're doing a great job and look forward to more of your information in the future.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^Aniram, I understand what you are aiming. But, I just can't help to wonder why people need comparison done on genuine Michael Jackson tracks. I mean when you listen to Michael's voice. Something magical happens. It's that sparks in his voice that get people addicted to him. He might not sound perfect in all his recordings; yet, the sparks, the timbre and the power in his voice is present in ALL the recordings (including demos) I have heard.

Do you remember the moment you heard the snippets of Blue Gangster, DYKWYCA and STTR? You wanted more, right? You got goosebumps, right? You know for sure it's Michael Jackson singing. Even in that tiny snippet of All In Your Name, Can't Get Your Weight of Me, you notice him? His voice is just that distinctive. Sometimes, when I listen to the Jacksons music at work, I notice his voice in the background vocals.

But, what did we feel the moment we heard the Cascio tracks? Feeling of not sure.

I know the power of conditioning. But if I don't believe Joe's claim that a body-double is used in TII, why would I believe in 3T's claim that an impersonator is used in the Cascio tracks?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I am so sick and tired of seeing people undermine michael jackson's talent on a MICHAEL JACKSON fan forum. I hate to see people go back and talk about mj's real tracks, or say his voice was not what it used to be, or take him down--at all--just to defend the cascio tracks. I don't think the MJJC is the right place to criticize michael jackson.

and i think it's funny how the people who think these tracks are real are the ones that say this debate is "silly". Sure, it would be silly if the tracks were sung by michael. But guess what? they're not. and we're passionate about michael. BIG SURPRISE, this is a collection of people who love michael, and hate to see him get hurt. there is NOTHING silly about this debate. What's silly is thinking that we're overreacting, or it's no big deal, etc. as someone who cares about michael, his legacy, and his music--it's a HUGE deal.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To the poster who said that this debate is getting quite 'silly/boring'...Well, it doesn't sound like you've given our debating much attention as you are trying to tell us that Michael sounded different because of aging, or that he's not gonna always sound like he did in the 80s....If you paid attention to what we've been saying in these last 820 pages, you'd realize it has nothing to do with the fact that his voice has changed with age or whatever damn excuse you want to use...it's because he sounds like a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT person....My gawd, if these 'reasons' aka 'excuses' held up at all, we wouldn't be STILL debating after 6 months! And, to anyone in general that this relates to: enough with downplaying Michael's exceptional talent to justify these bogus songs....It's just plain wrong.

P.S. GREAT post Grent!

and Bumper, I forgot to give you props on your brilliant post as well ;)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I've been thinking about this a lot today, and i believe it was done on purpose. I have no choice but to believe it was done on purpose, when i hear tracks like slave to the rhythm. You can't even compare keep your head up to STTR. it's like comparing a Honda to a Ferrari. I mean, look at the tracks they chose: 3 fake songs, 3 songs we'd heard before, 2 songs from the 80s, and BoJ and HT.

Don't get me wrong, i don't dislike ANY of the real tracks. I just think it would be hard to argue that they chose the best songs to be on this cd. So if that was done on purpose--why? At first i thought it was malicious. Trying to make the estate lose money or get the sony catalog or something like that.

But now i'm considering the possibility that this was a calculated move to save the 'good songs" for a later day or another contract? I mean, we don't even know for sure that they are going to release another cd as part of this 10 project deal, it's just speculation. Maybe they're trying to save stuff in the vault for mj's kids? I don't know. either way, it's completely inexcusable to do this to the fans.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm also sick of people labelling the people who have doubt as "silly, crazy, illogical and emotion-driven conspiracists who are ruining Michael's legacy."

Can people at least acknowledge many of the doubters are also highly intelligent and reasonable? Some of us have provided very insightful comments as well. We contributed efforts in this debate. And, it irks me to see people just dismiss our efforts as "boring and silly".
 
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