Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Justice_MJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Guys, why are you fighting over some words?

Why is there actually a negative connotation to the word "conspiracy theorist"? Conspiracy theorists are not some crazy, f*cked up in the brain people. Michael himself talked about conspiracy, so who's f*cked up?
I'm not ashamed to say I'm a conspiracy theorist. I believe that Michael was murdered but I can't prove it.

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

That's right, a conspiracy theorist is not a crazy mental person. It is someone who believes a conspiracy a took place. It has nothing to do with supernatural powers at all.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Guys, why are you fighting over some words?

Why is there actually a negative connotation to the word "conspiracy theorist"? Conspiracy theorists are not some crazy, f*cked up in the brain people. Michael himself talked about conspiracy, so who's f*cked up?
I'm not ashamed to say I'm a conspiracy theorist. I believe that Michael was murdered but I can't prove it.

Well when you know that the term is used mostly pejoratively, better avoid using that term as your credibility risks to suffer. Being labeled as a conspiracy theorists doesn't give you much credibility no matter how bright you may be.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

That's right, a conspiracy theorist is not a crazy mental person. It is someone who believes a conspiracy a took place. It has nothing to do with supernatural powers at all.

What you don't get is that we do not care about any conspiracy whatsoever. We do not focus on conspiracy and we do not care who did what. We are focusing on the forgery! The f o r g e r y!

 

[Willy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

If MJ was alive we wouldn't have had MICHAEL released,but a bunch of amazing songs mastered by him...

True, but according to the Cascios Michael was going to work on some of these tracks in London. If so, would he first have to buy his own songs from them? No. So assuming the tracks are real, the Cascios took advantage of the situation that their friend had died and sold his belongings. Not the noblest thing you could do in such circumstances.

 

[Justice_MJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Well when you know that the term is used mostly pejoratively, better avoid using that term as your credibility risks to suffer. Being labeled as a conspiracy theorists doesn't give you much credibility no matter how bright you may be.

That's not my problem. But the problem of the people thinking this. They will miss some very important points. Too bad for them!

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Well like Ivy said something is being done about it as you do not like the name so there is no need to discuss this any further. It is a conspiracy, but if you don't like that label because it reminds you of nutjobs then that's fine.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

True, but according to the Cassio Michael was going to work on some of these tracks in London. If so, would he first have to buy his own songs from the Cascios? No. So assuming the tracks are real, the Cascio took advantage of the situation that their friend had died and sold his belongings. Not the noblest thing you could do in such circumstances.

That's why I asked everyone here what would YOU do it in such a situation. But the sound of silence has been thundering in my ears since I asked the question.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

That's not my problem. But the problem of the people thinking this. They will miss some very important points. Too bad for them!

This is more serious than simply a personal belief. We are a whole buicnh of people around; We do have some credibility and we do not focus on who did what. We are focusing on "something is wrong" as in "there is a forgery". Not on "something is wrong" as in "there are people plotting". People will always plot and that is not the issue here. The issue is what has been done to those tracks? (no one cares by whom, that's secondary)

 

[jeantonight]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

That's why I asked everyone here what would YOU do it in such a situation. But the sound of silence has been thundering in my ears since I asked the question.

Maybe nobody is interested in answer that question because nobody finds it interesting.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Maybe nobody is interested in answer that question because nobody finds it interesting.

Maybe. Could be. Might be. Who knows.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Well like Ivy said something is being done about it as you do not like the name so there is no need to discuss this any further. It is a conspiracy, but if you don't like that label because it reminds you of nutjobs then that's fine.

So, we have to be sensitive to people who get offended by the term "Cascio defender"; although, this is in essence what they are doing all along.

But, it's perfectly fine if some of us feel insulted by the term "conspiracy theorist" because the term remind us of nutjobs?

What a double-standard! You make it sound like the people who doubt the vocals do not deserve any respect.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Maybe nobody is interested in answer that question because nobody finds it interesting.

yet, people find this thread interesting enough to read or even to leave a post.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

It's rather the opposite, I am not Malachi defender, but a "non-Cascio tracks defender" or "a non-Cascio supporter".

how about not adding the "non" but replacing with the opposite word for defender? So would you feel the same way and be okay if you were called "Cascio opposer" or "Cascio attacker"?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

how about not adding the "non" but replacing with the opposite word for defender? So would you feel the same way and be okay if you were called "Cascio opposer" or "Cascio attacker"?

"Cascio opposer" would be totally ok, as, indeed, we are opposed to those tracks. But not attacker. We are not attacking anyone, we are defending our opinion.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

how about not adding the "non" but replacing with the opposite word for defender? So would you feel the same way and be okay if you were called "Cascio opposer" or "Cascio attacker"?

I don't mind being called "Cascio oppose" because this is what I've been doing. I oppose to have any Cascio tracks to be included in future posthumous release. (Sony, if you are following. Please take note.) But, no I'm not a Cascio attacker. Having doubt and having question is not the same as hatred and attack.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

"Cascio opposer" would be totally ok, as, indeed, we are opposed to those tracks. But not attacker. We are not attacking anyone, we are defending our opinion.

How about comparing Cascio's to the likes of Arvizo's, Chandler's, Sneddon and accusing them of lying, fraud, forgery etc (remember innocent until proven guilty)? Would that not be an attack?

(and please answer in general terms. don't reply with "I don't do it". I'm not saying you do it. But it's written on this thread)

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

But we are not defending the Cascio family at all. We are defending Michael because we hear him singing on the Cascio tracks and are defending his honour as he is no longer here.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

But we are not defending the Cascio family at all. We are defending Michael because we hear him singing on the Cascio tracks and are defending his honour as he is no longer here.

You are actually defending nothing else but your opinion.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

But we are not defending the Cascio family at all. We are defending Michael because we hear him singing on the Cascio tracks and are defending his honour as he is no longer here.

If you are defending Michael's honor, why are you defending the practice of copying the Earth Song ad libs to KYHU? Why do you think it is okay to release songs with so much manipulations and over-processing in Michael's name?

Since Michael is no longer here, we want his legacy to be treated with respect. We want people handle his music the best possible way; not some common posthumous release practice. If you are defending his honour, why do you think it's okay for Sony to treat Michael as a tool, an item and a product?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

How about comparing Cascio's to the likes of Arvizo's, Chandler's, Sneddon and accusing them of lying, fraud, forgery etc (remember innocent until proven guilty)? Would that not be an attack?

(and please answer in general terms. don't reply with "I don't do it". I'm not saying you do it. But it's written on this thread)

First, what do you want me to do here? To answer in the name of other people?

Second, without seeing a complete sentence of what had been concretely posted I can't answer it.

Third, generally speaking, as you requested it, what is ok is to compare different situations, life experience, but not comparing people. Each individual is different even within the same family. It is the situations from life experience that should be compared. Sneddon, Arvizos and Cascios do not belong to the same basket of falsely accusing Michael, but they do (if there's a forgery) belong to the same basket when it comes to crime committing. Michael was proven innocent, in other words, Sneddon didn't suffer the consequences of his illegal procedures of fabricating the evidence, the Avrizos walked away without being punished for falsely bringing allegations against Michael in order to extort some money.

People are different, circumstances are different, and most importantly, when Michael was alive Sneddon and Arvizos tried to extort money and bring MJ to his knees, while in the case of the Cascios, if it appears that they forged the songs, it's different than accusing Michael of paedophilia, however it would be not less disgusting in a way as the Cascio would claim (i.e. accuse) that the forgery is Michael and ultimately cash in (i.e. extort money) thanks to Michael's name.


So, yes, the situations as far as taking advantage of the name MJ and his fortune are comparable, but not the nature of the accusations nor the moment in Michael's life/death.

In the end, the main goal in all situations in all the cases of injustice that Michael had to endure is: MONEY.


p.s. Innocent untill proven guilty is American concept of the judicial system. I can deal with that, but nothing prevents the Cascios to prove their innocence either, knowing that the fanbase is hugely divided. Their silence and lack of proof are doing more harm than good. Knowing that they cashed in 5 million dollars, they don't care actually. So pledging the innocence and cashing in the money is a bit too easy. If it wasn't that big deal SONY wouldn't have contacted Gaz to ban two members for simply giving a link to something that hasn't been leaked by them.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

p.s. Innocent untill proven guilty is American concept of the judicial system. I can deal with that, but nothing prevents the Cascios to prove their innocence either, knowing that the fanbase is hugely divided. Their silence and lack of proof are doing more harm than good. Knowing that they cashed in 5 million dollars, they don't care actually. So pledging the innocence and cashing in the money is a bit too easy. If it wasn't that big deal SONY wouldn't have contacted Gaz to ban two members for simply giving a link to something that hasn't been leaked by them.

I just want to emphasize this part. Sony and the Cascios, for sure, are aware of the negative impact caused by this controversy. This controversy does not stay here among us. If so, Sony would not have gone all the way to issue a letter to the President of this forum urging him to ban two members.

Instead of coming out with solid proof to convince fans about the validity of the tracks, Sony choose to silence the Cascio opposers.

They said fans are the ultimate judges? Did they really mean it? If so, why not released more details of the analysis they have done and more support and let the fans decide?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I just want to emphasize this part. Sony and the Cascios, for sure, are aware of the negative impact caused by this controversy. This controversy does not stay here among us. If so, Sony would not have gone all the way to issue a letter to the President of this forum urging him to ban two members.

Instead of coming out with solid proof to convince fans about the validity of the tracks, Sony choose to silence the Cascio opposers.

They said fans are the ultimate judges? Did they really mean it? If so, why not released more details of the analysis they have done and more support and let the fans decide?

They actually didn't release a single detail whatsoever, just "parole, parole"

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

And ensure the fan community base split worldwide. Very "wise".

Michael's fans aren't going anywhere, so this "split" may be be nothing more than a difference of opinion amongst fans. We'd still support Michael the same, we'd still share the same share love and appreciation for Michael. If you can't get past the difference of opinion and divide yourself from another because of such difference, then that's a personal matter. But I'd like to think we're decent people and wouldn't let such a divide cause a "split". Not only that, but we have new fans becoming fans off of Michael's back catalog off various things, like video gaming not these four songs. For this reason the fan community will continue to grow and these tracks will be a small matter.

If it goes as some of you believe, and no more of these tracks are released commercially, this will go down as a mistake, by the Estate and Sony. Like the TII matter which made news, but Michael's fan base continued to grow. New products will be released and the same thing will continue to happen barred any more mistakes by the Estate or Sony. If some people can't get over this matter to the point, where again, they distance themselves from another fan, then like I said it's personal matter that person would have to deal with themselves.

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

If SONY targeted Pentum and Kapital it is clear that they've been watching them closely not necessarily for their snippet postings (that's an excuse!), but because most probably for the tons of audio comparisons they made to prove Jason IS singing on those tracks! Instead of proving otherwise while watching Pentum and Kapital closely, they decided to demand Gaz to ban them for life?! How lame from SONY music! This is only a further proof that SONY have clearly been aware of the controversy --so called conspiracy-- and did nothing, absolutely nothing to prevent this; or at least post an official statement to clarify things. The Cascio tracks must be so hell of a fishy to make react a huge company such as SONY against two members Pentum and Kapital.

We must all stand united against this practice from SONY music! After what happened to Pentum and Kapital, how on earth can anyone defend those disgraceful Cascio tracks causing the split within MJ community.

The ones that should be banned from MJ life are people who authorized these Cascio songs to be on MJ's album.

that is EXACTLY what happened. sony requested a ban not for sharing links, but for speaking out against the injustice that has been carried out against michael's legacy. it's obvious Sony is watching this thread. well, if they are (this is a note to SONY, not to the MJJC):

i don't care who you silence, i don't care what "forensics" you release, you have to know that you will never fool the MJ fan base into accepting these tracks or keeping this quiet. we know the truth and we're not going to stop.

so go ahead. continue with your little games, ban the very fans that support your business, create divides in the biggest mj fan community on the web, do whatever you want. you make me sick.

like sam said earlier, maybe you should concentrate a little less on covering your tracks from awesome fans like pentum and kapital, and concentrate a little MORE on releasing actual michael jackson tracks on michael jackson cds.

what's next? are they going to ban anyone who speaks out? is it going to stop at the mjjc, or are you going to take it to youtube, facebook, twitter? You were just looking for an excuse to nail them. are you going to ban me too? too bad sony can't request a ban on grounds of "being a good fan and knowing what michael actually sounds like" or i guess i'd be history.

at least i can rest easy knowing that SOMEONE at sony has seen these posts and is obviously upset about them. this fan base is not just a money-making machine. We ARE the best fan base in the world, and that's a fact. we give to michael exactly what he gave to us, so stop screwing with us and show us some respect.

worried about your twisted little games instead of quality/upholding the mj legacy. i am so disgusted.

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I also asked if people have heard the entire song. I never got an answer.

yes, people have heard the entire song.

sorry for the double post.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Michael's fans aren't going anywhere, so this "split" may be be nothing more than a difference of opinion amongst fans. We'd still support Michael the same, we'd still share the same share love and appreciation for Michael. If you can't get past the difference of opinion and divide yourself from another because of such difference, then that's a personal matter. But I'd like to think we're decent people and wouldn't let such a divide cause a "split". Not only that, but we have new fans becoming fans off of Michael's back catalog off various things, like video gaming not these four songs. For this reason the fan community will continue to grow and these tracks will be a small matter.

I actually agree with you that fans are still fans of Michael Jackson no matter what our opinions are on the Cascio tracks. I expressed similar thought in another thread earlier.

However, if you think there is no divide between fans. You are quite wrong. Did you see the "War of Fans" thread in the general session? Even Gaz believes the tension caused by the Cascio tracks are dividing the fan base.

Some of us actually can get past our differences in opionons. Many fans, on the other hand, do not take it as just as personal matter.

Have you noticed some of the more active members stop posting after the release of Michael?

I don't think the negative impact of the Cascio tracks shall be underestimated.

If it goes as some of you believe, and no more of these tracks are released commercially, this will go down as a mistake, by the Estate and Sony. Like the TII matter which made news, but Michael's fan base continued to grow. New products will be released and the same thing will continue to happen barred any more mistakes by the Estate or Sony. If some people can't get over this matter to the point, where again, they distance themselves from another fan, then like I said it's personal matter that person would have to deal with themselves.

Has any one of the Cascio opposers asked for no more posthumous releases? Has any one of us demanded the Estate to stop putting any new commercial releases?

We just asked for the releases to be handled with more respect and care. Is it really that impossible for the Estate to be more selective in releasing materials? Are the Cascio tracks the only things in the vault? How do we explain BG, STTR and DYKWYCA? You make it sound like the Cascio tracks are the only things left. If this is truly the case, then don't release them. It will be a mistake to release them; unless, controversy and publicity are what the Estate aims at.

 

[samhabib]

.
Going forward, with Michael gone we are no longer able continue as we were simply put we now need to adjust our ways, Michael now is a product an item that makes money for the Estate thus the children's future and the name of Michael Jackson is set to how they want it set, we have to respect that from here on hard as it may be.

"Michael now is a product an item that makes money..." Wow... just wow...

 

[jeantonight]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

that is EXACTLY what happened. sony requested a ban not for sharing links, but for speaking out against the injustice that has been carried out against michael's legacy. it's obvious Sony is watching this thread. well, if they are (this is a note to SONY, not to the MJJC):

i don't care who you silence............,.

If you are banned is because you are speaking out against the so call injustice, if you are not banned is because the links. We will see.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

"Michael now is a product an item that makes money..." Wow... just wow...

I know...makes me SICK....Even if this isn't Gaz's or MJJC's stance on things, this paragraph shouldn't even be uttered on an MJ fan forum...