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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I did not ask to develop what Cascio did. I asked what would YOU do?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I did not ask to develop what Cascio did. I asked what would YOU do?
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And they are offended by being called "Cascio Defenders"? Isn't defending the Cascios what they have been doing all along? Even they are not being asked to defend the Cascios, they volunteer to do so.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

love is magical said:
And they are offended by being called "Cascio Defenders"? Isn't defending the Cascios what they have been doing all along? Even they are not being asked to defend the Cascios, they volunteer to do so.
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Lol. For some people a spade is not a spade.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

ivy said:
how about an option 5 : believe that your friend would want his fans to have access to these items and therefore give it to the proper authorities in a proper way and showcase them to the fans while generating profit for his kids?
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This sounds like option 3, so needless to add the 5th option.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

love is magical said:
And they are offended by being called "Cascio Defenders"? Isn't defending the Cascios what they have been doing all along? Even they are not being asked to defend the Cascios, they volunteer to do so.
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Lol. For some people a spade is not a spade.
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okay now this is insulting.

If you for a minute step outside of your opinion and could accept that some people might actually hear and believe the vocals to be Michael's , then their posts are for defending Michael.

It's similar to you believing that there was a wrong done to Michael and that your posts are for defending Michael from this wrong.

When you start with your belief that Cascio's did something wrong and name the people "defenders" , you make it sound like they are defending a wrong. and add a bad meaning to that sentence. Can't you really see it?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

ivy said:
okay now this is insulting.

If you for a minute step outside of your opinion and could accept that some people might actually hear and believe the vocals to be Michael's , then their posts are for defending Michael.

It's similar to you believing that there was a wrong done to Michael and that your posts are for defending Michael from this wrong.

When you start with your belief that Cascio's did something wrong and name the people "defenders" , you make it sound like they are defending a wrong. and add a bad meaning to that sentence. Can't you really see it?
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No. I am not happy to be called a conspiracy theorists, but if that has been decided, no prob. I let it be. I know that I am not a conspiracy theorists. This is not my site so I don't decide how the thread should be called.

Yet, when I post what would YOU do (generally speaking) I got two answers and both answers jumped to defend the Cascios. I even did not ask to develop what they did. I know what they did. So, what is wrong with being called Cascio defender when people were actually doing this spontaneously.

Conspiracy theorists for some of us is as much insulting as for some of you being called the Cascio defenders.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Too bad, Bumper. If you believe they faked these tracks and released them as MJ, that's a Conspiracy Theory. There's no arguing that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
[youtube]9hUy9ePyo6Q[/youtube]
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Err, maybe if you gave people some time to actually type a response, there wouldn't be a need for these pointless videos.



BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I did not ask to develop what Cascio did. I asked what would YOU do?
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I was just explaining that #5 is the reality we currently live in, and giving the songs to the children, would be beneficially useless. I wasn't just speaking for the Cascio's, but for myself as well.

I'd register the songs, to make sure no one else can steal them, that's the first thing I'd do. Secondly I'd sell them to the highest bidding label, which is what they did, under the Estate's guidelines that a percentage of the generated revenue on Michael Jackson products would go to the children. Simple.

love is magical said:
^^That's why I have all these questions. I downloaded Hold My Hand, Another Day and Much Too Soon from this very forum before the official album released. Not to mention, I downloaded Blue Gangster, Do You Know Where Your Children Are and Slave to the Rhythm also here. There are tons of leaks, with actual download links placed here before.

If you go to the 2000 Watts section, it's not difficult to find different remixes of STTR.

Should the people who work on remixes of leaked songs be banned too?

I want to know what's the difference between leaking the whole STTR and th snippet of Water.
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Well they can't take action against everyone, and I believe it was Tak that leaked the final versions of Another Day, HMH, Blue Gangsta, and 12 o' clock. Maybe I'm mistaken, but he's the one who initially leaked "Michael - The Early Version", which is where the majority of those songs came from. And like Ivy said he was arrested. The person who leaked snippets of STTR before the full release came out, was arrested (so I've heard). So if this is any implication of how they're running things, it seems they only go after those who are responsible for the initial leaks. Now I don't know where Pentum or Kapital come in, at this point, but I will say this, the snippets they released were unheard of by the majority of the posters in this thread prior to them being leaked.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Aniram said:
Too bad, Bumper. If you believe they faked these tracks and released them as MJ, that's a Conspiracy Theory. There's no arguing that.
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If they did it, it is not conspiracy theory but faking, forgering and twisting the reality.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

There was a conspiracy to fake these tracks off as real MJ tracks and make money. Conspiracy theory!

How is it any different than saying Bush made 9/11 happen so he could go to Iraq?

How is it any different than saying the government killed JFK because he was too much of a threat?

All conspiracy theories...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

@Anniareyouok, giving them to the children would be useless? How coldblooded! If your father had paintings and his best friend sold them to a museum to cash in, and then you get the % from the museum for every visit, I guess that you wouldn't be bothered that your father's friends didn't ask you your opinion about what to do with the paintings before selling them.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

@bumper

we are actually working on the "conspiracy" because we take the complaints seriously.

so now if I answer a post of yours , that would make me a "Cascio defender"? and where did I defend them in my last post? I pointed out errors and missing parts in your options ?

-----
and fyi I'm not a Cascio defender nor I see myself to be one. I really do not care about Cascio's. As I mentioned before I honestly hear Michael and I personally believe the songs to be legit. and I'm writing what I am writing because I believe this album and the future projects will be affected by this controversy. and I think posting "It's Jason Malachi" a million times isn't helping Michael. Do I wish we never had this controversy? You bet. Do I want this issue to be avoided in the future? God I hope so. and I'm really tired of people hating , cursing and labeling me just because of my opinion.

I have a different opinion then yours, so what? Grow up and accept the reality of difference of opinions.

(disclaimer: starting from "and fyi" is general and isn't aimed towards any specific person.)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Aniram said:
There was a conspiracy to fake these tracks off as real MJ tracks and make money. Conspiracy theory!

How is it any different than saying Bush made 9/11 happen so he could go to Iraq?

How is it any different than saying the government killed JFK because he was too much of a threat?

All conspiracy theories...
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And how is any different than believing Teddy Riley's claiming at the same time Michael is alive and it is him on the Cascio tracks? So, the conspiracy is only when it suits your agenda and your opinion?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Why would the paintings be harmful to Michael Jackson's legacy, and if they were in the Cascio's posession and they were requested by Sony, why wouldn't they give Sony the paintings?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

ivy said:
okay now this is insulting.

If you for a minute step outside of your opinion and could accept that some people might actually hear and believe the vocals to be Michael's , then their posts are for defending Michael.

It's similar to you believing that there was a wrong done to Michael and that your posts are for defending Michael from this wrong.

When you start with your belief that Cascio's did something wrong and name the people "defenders" , you make it sound like they are defending a wrong. and add a bad meaning to that sentence. Can't you really see it?
Click to expand...

Now, actually I feel insulted by having my post being called insulting.

Of all the people here, I thought you know I never hold my opinion as the Gospel. There has been moment I truly doubt. There have been times I admit I was wrong. There have been numerous posts I openly stated I learned a lot from you.

Can any one of us here made an absolute claim that the Cascios did no wrong. Even if the tracks are genuine, is it right for them to release them to the conditions they are? It's up for any one of us here to decide.

You mentioned I-don't-know-how-many-times the nature of posthumous release. You justified the poor quality of the songs by saying they just follow common practice.

I said why not challenging the common practice. Why not do something exceptional for such an exceptional artist who changed popular music history, an artist of significant historical impact?

I guess I have my answer today. They are not going to do better becasue Michael Jackson is a tool now. An item. A product.

If you don't think the Cascios do anything wrong, why the word "defender" upset you? Defending is not a bad word. The bad meaning is not suggest by anyone but perceived by yourself.

When I defend Michael, I don't see I'm defending any wrongdoing. No one can make it sound like I'm defending a wrongdoing.

Now, let's flip the coin. I'm now being labeled a conspiracy theorist. I'm not happy about it. What conspiracy theory I have? Really? I'm being called something that I'm not. Don't you see the bad meaning in the word. Can't you really see it?

PS: When I typed this post, I didn't see Bumper's post above. So, please don't think we act together. I guess it's no coincidence that both of us feel insulted by being labeled as conspiracy theorist. We are being called for something we are not.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I never said I didn't think Teddy's belief was a conspiracy theory, did I? Suits my agenda? What?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I still believe it is MJ singing on cascio tracks. I am happy MJ left this tracks for Eddie (it is probably the best thing You can get from a friend when your friend is Michael Jackson). And I am also happy that Eddie didn't keep tracks for himself only but also released them.

And he did it for money yes? Maybe MJ told him "Eddie when You will have any problem, just sold our tracks, that is my gift to you beacause of our friendship. " - I know it is only my imagination but it is conspiracy. If doubters can say that it is no proof that MJ did what i wrote above, I can also say that there is no proof that Eddie hired Jason Malachi :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

ivy said:
@bumper

we are actually working on the "conspiracy" because we take the complaints seriously.

so now if I answer a post of yours , that would make me a "Cascio defender"? and where did I defend them in my last post? I pointed out errors and missing parts in your options ?

-----
and fyi I'm not a Cascio defender nor I see myself to be one. I really do not care about Cascio's. As I mentioned before I honestly hear Michael and I personally believe the songs to be legit. and I'm writing what I am writing because I believe this album and the future projects will be affected by this controversy. and I think posting "It's Jason Malachi" a million times isn't helping Michael. Do I wish we never had this controversy? You bet. Do I want this issue to be avoided in the future? God I hope so. and I'm really tired of people hating , cursing and labeling me just because of my opinion.

I have a different opinion then yours, so what? Grow up and accept the reality of difference of opinions.

(disclaimer: starting from "and fyi" is general and isn't aimed towards any specific person.)
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If you get insulted by the term Cascio defender there's nothing I can do.
It would be the same if I said "an apple". You'd see maybe a red apple, someone else a green, someone would picture Adam and Eve, someone a Macintosh, and there's nothing that one can do to prevent mental pictures. But you cannot blame people for using the words to say the things as they are and then make out of those words your own definitions such as "insulting" when there was no insult intended from the speaker at all.

The same way I have to accept that I am labeled as a Conspiracy Theorists, which includes in the mental picture things such as "MJ is alive", "MJ's death is a hoax", etc. yet I have to force my mental pictures and say to myself that this Conspiracy Theorist labeling isn't the same as what I already have in my head.

Thanks for your valuable time that you took to answer to such a kid as I am. That surely shows how respectful you are by telling me to grow up.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
@Anniareyouok, giving them to the children would be useless? How coldblooded!
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In this case they can't legally give them to children.

love is magical said:
Can any one of us here made an absolute claim that the Cascios did no wrong. Even if the tracks are genuine, is it right for them to release them to the conditions they are? It's up for any one of us here to decide.
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see you still add a wrong to the mix "right to release them to the conditions that they are". And we discussed it before to you it's "wrong". and you expect everyone to accept this or surprised if they don't.

I said why not challenging the common practice. Why not do something exceptional for such an exceptional artist who changed popular music history, an artist of significant historical impact?
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that's a question for people involved not me.

If you don't think the Cascios do anything wrong, why the word "defender" upset you? Defending is not a bad word. The bad meaning is not suggest by anyone but perceived by yourself.
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really? did you read "option 4" on bumper's list? "Option4: Register the copyright the day after his death, sell the objects, cash in the money, despite the whole controversy around the objects that supposedly belonged (not) to your killed friend?"

Oh that's just peachy and positive and nothing negative is suggested!! Again really?

Now, let's flip the coin. I'm now being labeled a conspiracy theorist. I'm not happy about it. What conspiracy theory I have? Really? I'm being called something that I'm not. Don't you see the bad meaning in the word. Can't you really see it?
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working on it like I said.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I can't believe the things I'm reading.
Two members banned because Sony wanted it? I'm not sure if I understood it correctly. Tell me if I'm wrong. They threatened MJJC with legal actions if these members were not to be banned? I mean really?
Am I the only one who sees the lack of respect toward Michael and his fans?
All of these things that happened with the release of the album "Michael" are a shame. An insult to Michael's legacy. The final falling apart of the community. And we all know who's responsible for all of this: Sony and the estate. Just continue pissing off fans... But never forget: Maybe he's just a product for you, but for us he's our King, someone we love like a father, a brother, and a lover, someone we would do anything for, someone we will defend until our last breath.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Thanks for your valuable time that you took to answer to such a kid as I am. That surely shows how respectful you are by telling me to grow up.
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did you read my disclaimer in the end? see my --- separating what I posted to you and what I posted in general?

(disclaimer: starting from "and fyi" is general and isn't aimed towards any specific person.)

that grow up is for a 16 year old kid at twitter who has been harassing me for some time now. Are you him? Geez.

At least accuse me of something I do, not something I specifically separated from you.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

pushukrystian said:
I still believe it is MJ singing on cascio tracks. I am happy MJ left this tracks for Eddie (it is probably the best thing You can get from a friend when your friend is Michael Jackson). And I am also happy that Eddie didn't keep tracks for himself only but also released them.

And he did it for money yes? Maybe MJ told him "Eddie when You will have any problem, just sold our tracks, that is my gift to you beacause of our friendship. " - I know it is only my imagination but it is conspiracy. If doubters can say that it is no proof that MJ did what i wrote above, I can also say that there is no proof that Eddie hired Jason Malachi :)
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Here one more proof of a cascio defender. I ask people what would YOU do, and they talk about what the Cascios did.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
@Anniareyouok, giving them to the children would be useless? How coldblooded! If your father had paintings and his best friend sold them to a museum to cash in, and then you get the % from the museum for every visit, I guess that you wouldn't be bothered that your father's friends didn't ask you your opinion about what to do with the paintings before selling them.
Click to expand...


I'm coldblooded because I pointed out the fact that giving the songs to the children would be beneficially useless? Please, save that for someone else. And I don't know ANY person who takes business advice from 12 and 13 year olds.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

ivy said:
did you read my disclaimer in the end? see my --- separating what I posted to you and what I posted in general?

(disclaimer: starting from "and fyi" is general and isn't aimed towards any specific person.)

that grow up is for a 16 year old kid at twitter who has been harassing me for some time now. Are you him? Geez.

At least accuse me of something I do, not something I specifically separated from you.
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YOu have skillfull way to call people names and get away with words such as "disclaimer" and "those are not my words". Nice try. But addressed to me or anyone else by you or quoted from anyone else in your post is not necessary.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
I'm coldblooded because I pointed out the fact that giving the songs to the children would be beneficially useless? Please, save that for someone else. And I don't know ANY person who takes business advice from 12 and 13 year olds.
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I'm talking about friendship and mourning children of your best friend and you are thinking business, that's coldblooded.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

The fact is that this is a conspiracy theory. Even if it turned out to be true, it is still a conspiracy theory and that's a fact.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I'm talking about friendship and mourning children of your best friend and you are thinking business, that's coldblooded.
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:sigh: There's no reasoning with you, is there?


What would giving the children these unreleased, unregistered songs do for them, after the death of their father? It isn't going to bring him back, it isn't going to speed up the healing process, and it isn't going to stop them from mourning. Aside from that, they'd still have the music to remember their father if they had never heard these tracks before.


Yet, someone is coldblooded, because they made a wise decision to register these products and sell them to ensure the financial safety of not only themselves but for the children? Lol, really?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

But don't you think Sony could have immediately been in contact with the Cascio's asking them for any audio they had? I think Sony and The Estate wanted the rights to basically ALL unreleased MJ material they could get.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I'm talking about friendship and mourning children of your best friend and you are thinking business, that's coldblooded.
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My friend has died so I'm going to give his music he recorded here to his children when they're 18. Stuff his millions of fans!

^Is that really any better?
 
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