Michael - The Great Album Debate

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Did mj's kids say they didn't think it was daddy's voice?

Yes they did. BUT for some reason Oprah edited it out of the show. AND allowed the Cascios to come on a couple of weeks later claiming the vocals WERE Michael Jackson.

Now why would the Sony associated 'Harpo' TV company do that?

"Three to five of the 10-12 tracks on Michael, out December 14 on Sony, were allegedly recorded at the New Jersey home of producer Eddie Cascio in 2007, when Michael and his children stayed there for four months working on remixes for the 25th-anniversary reissue of Thriller. Michael's son, Prince Michael, said this week that none of what he heard recorded then matches what he hears now on Michael, and that he believes the Cascio cuts were recorded posthumously by a Michael soundalike. Prince's sister, Paris, corroborated these claims--as did Michael's mother, Katherine, during an Oprah interview. Joe Jackson, Michael's dad, also protested the songs via a statement by his attorney."

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/thatsreallyweek/113631/nov-1-7-is-it-michael-or-is-it-memorex

And if anyone wants to try and tell me that Harpo isn't, in some way, associated with Sony, why are they referred to as 'us' on the Harpo recruitment page? ("Find your perfect position with US now. Harpo, Sony, ZoCo.")

http://www.harpocareers.com/

 

[Roosje]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Sam: exaggeration is another thing... I've never claimed I knew the children nor their intentions. Also, I do not have any negative connotation with the way I think being raised works for most children. There is no judgement in my assumption at all. Don't you think children's main influence in life is given by their caretakers?

All the people we discuss here are unknown to us personally. Does that mean we can't imagine how things would go? No, of course not. Otherwise you should get off your high horse and point the finger at yourself for saying what you've said about the Cascio's and Teddy before.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I wonder what the believers will say when the kids get older and come out and say that they too think these songs are fake.

I can just see it now... "that evil family brainwashed them."

That's pretty much what we're being led to believe here.

PS. that signature... you mean Pammy's are not real?

 

[MattyJam]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

PS. that signature... you mean Pammy's are not real?

Her breasts are as real as the Cascio songs.

 

[Roosje]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I wonder what the believers will say when the kids get older and come out and say that they too think these songs are fake.

I can just see it now... "that evil family brainwashed them."

Of course not. At least I would not think that. But for now, we don't have any statement of them whatsoever.

Your siggy is funny. I love me some Pam.

 

[djbaby]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Her breasts are as real as the Cascio songs.

I reckon her breasts are more real that the Cascio songs!

 

[Garden]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

What some people say about the kids opinion / hearing.
Is not the first time it is discussed on this board.
It was already said that we didn't hear them say it, we don't know if they really said it, and if they said it we don't know if they were influenced by family and we don't know if they know every possible way how their daddy worked in the early stadium of his work. And who was the source of the rumour?
All this can largely be debated or speculated.
I know you can go on hours about it.

But sure you can use it for emotionally manipulating people.
Brillant idea...

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

What some people say about the kids opinion / hearing.
Is not the first time it is discussed on this board.
It was already said that we didn't hear them say it, we don't know if they really said it, and if they said it we don't know if they were influenced by family and we don't know if they know every possible way how their daddy worked in the early stadium of his work. And who was the source of the rumour?
All this can largely be debated or speculated.
I know you can go on hours about it.

But sure you can use it for emotionally manipulating people.
Brillant idea...

As long as you're consistent. I haven't heard the vast majority of people name checked by the Estate and I haven't heard the 'forensic audiologists' support their claims. Does that mean that they didn't say it? Is that what you're now saying?

So where does that leave your proof?

I wouldn't speculate anything about Michael Jackson's childrens intentions, personally. I can't imagine there is anyone in the world who knows his voice from age 40 onwards more than those children.

 

[smooth_criminal05]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Please be respectful when talking to others regardless of their opinions.

 

[deano]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

As all children are to be believed, perhaps we have got Jordy Chandler all wrong?

I jest of course, as we all know children can be coerced to say anything by their elders - and it doesn't have to be forced out of them either. Children will be happy to 'remember' things the way their loving grandparents, uncles, aunties, and cousins want them to. It would take a monumental effort for a young child to withstand that and 'go against the flow'.

To me, the use of the "MJ's children know more than the music experts" card, smacks a little of "we don't have much evidence, but fans won't argue against MJ's children will they!?"

Please. You'll have to do better than that.

 

[kreen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Michael's son, Prince Michael, said this week that none of what he heard recorded then matches what he hears now on Michael.

Ah, but if Prince Michael really did say this, then it shows that Michael did indeed record with the Cascios. Then the question would be completely different : why would the Cascios, if they did record tracks with MJ, then disreguard the actual recordings, and use an impostor instead?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Ah, but if Prince Michael really did say this, then it shows that Michael did indeed record with the Cascios. Then the question would be completely different : why would the Cascios, if they did record tracks with MJ, then disreguard the actual recordings, and use an impostor instead?

He recorded WBSS 2008 there. On which he sounds absolutely nothing like the vocalist on the other Cascio songs. And has all the 'power' and 'intensity' that the 'believers' claim is missing on the Cascio songs.

I wonder why that is.

 

[deano]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He recorded WBSS 2008 there. On which he sounds absolutely nothing like the vocalist on the other Cascio songs. And has all the 'power' and 'intensity' that the 'believers' claim is missing on the Cascio songs.

I wonder why that is.

He spent all that time there and all he did was 'mix' WBSS 2008!?

You would have thought, knowing MJ, once he got started he would have been a lot more productive than that! :wink:

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He spent all that time there and all he did was 'mix' WBSS 2008!?

You would have thought, knowing MJ, once he got started he would have been a lot more productive than that! :wink:

Knowing MJ? He worked on and off for about 3 years with Will.I.Am and the amount of songs they recorded you could count on one hand. So knowing MJ I BELIEVE he would never record twelve terrible songs, in a terrible facility, with terrible lyrics. All of which the majority of his fans doubt. Knowing MJ.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

everyone should really tone down in this thread.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He recorded WBSS 2008 there. On which he sounds absolutely nothing like the vocalist on the other Cascio songs. I wonder why that is.

If this is true, then I have no words...

 

[deano]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Knowing MJ? He worked on and off for about 3 years with Will.I.Am and the amount of songs they recorded you could count on one hand. So knowing MJ I BELIEVE he would never record twelve terrible songs, in a terrible facility, with terrible lyrics. All of which the majority of his fans doubt. Knowing MJ.

"He worked on and off for about 3 years with Will.I.Am....."

Well that's a pretty loose statement. He could have spent a handful of hours with Will I Am during that period, and 10 times as much with the Cascios as he was living with them.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He recorded WBSS 2008 there.

we still have no proof of that. Did he sing again the verses ?

any proof that it's not a demo of WBSS ?

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

[size=+1]If you want "evidence" about those vocals you need to advocate for Jacksons / MJ fans vs Sony for consumer fraud case. That's the only time Sony will be forced to "prove" the authenticity of the vocals.

Edited to add: We all need to understand how law works and "innocent until proven guilty" concept.

As far as the legal perspective goes Sony/Estate/ Cascio's are innocent parties and this is a legit Michael Jackson album. If you are claiming the opposite (that they are lying about the vocals, the vocals are of imposters etc) the burden of proof will be on you. Sony/Estate/Cascio's do not need to prove their innocence, other side has to be able to prove their guilt."
by Ivy

haha ha haaaaa, you're too damn funny, guys![/size]

 

[donalb]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

After two months, I still find myself struggling with the vocals on these songs. I keep thinking that one day, I'll pop the CD in and everything will be "ok". Unfortunately, this has not happened. The more I hear them, the more concerns I have. As many have already said, Michael Jackson had one of the most recognizable voices on the planet. Without seeing his face, one could instantly identify him whether he was singing in a studio, performing in a concert, giving an interview, acting in a movie, singing background, reading a book, etc., etc., It was that unique. The fact that I can not absolutely identify Michael in these songs, for whatever the reason, is very troubling...

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

After two months, I still find myself struggling with the vocals on these songs. I keep thinking that one day, I'll pop the CD in and everything will be "ok". Unfortunately, this has not happened. The more I hear them, the more concerns I have. As many have already said, Michael Jackson had one of the most recognizable voices on the planet. Without seeing his face, one could instantly identify him whether he was singing in a studio, performing in a concert, giving an interview, acting in a movie, singing background, reading a book, etc., etc., It was that unique. The fact that I can not absolutely identify Michael in these songs, for whatever the reason, is very troubling...

Although I'm not struggling with the vocals (I have no doubt about them), I completely agree with you. It's VERY troubling, indeed. This is why I can't let go of this. Absolutely not.

 

[samhabib]

It's like they've dropped in subliminal hints throughout the Cascio songs to get the point across...

"But they are gunning for the money... so they fake it"

"You gave them your all... They’re watching you fall... And they eat your soul like a vegetable" (ABSOLUTELY horrific reference to WBSS there)

"Fake Fake Breaking News..."

"The plot thickens to destroy Michael Jackson..."

Shame on all those involved...

 

[kreen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

He recorded WBSS 2008 there. On which he sounds absolutely nothing like the vocalist on the other Cascio songs. And has all the 'power' and 'intensity' that the 'believers' claim is missing on the Cascio songs.

I wonder why that is.

It might be because what you hear is actually the old WBSS demo from the early 80's.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It's amazing to see your strength, Arklove and everybody here in this thread, and willingness to stick with this. Indeed, never give up!!! I won't, either. We must all stick to this and always hold the truth and light above everything else.

I have always had most faith in Michael Jackson fans above any fans of any other in the world, because I think they know what's up and what's right and will always seek justice for Michael.

By the way, samhabib, I think the 'Like a vegetable' was probably added in later production to the album with backing vocals. I don't think Michael actually would have had it like that, haha, they were trying to be clever... It is cheesy, yes, but also kind of neat, in my opinion.

 

[Arklove]

It's like they've dropped in subliminal hints throughout the Cascio songs to get the point across...

"But they are gunning for the money... so they fake it"

"You gave them your all... They’re watching you fall... And they eat your soul like a vegetable" (ABSOLUTELY horrific reference to WBSS there)

"Fake Fake Breaking News..."

"The plot thickens to destroy Michael Jackson..."

Shame on all those involved...

It's sickening how OBVIOUS it is though. Forget subliminal. It speaks volumes.

It's amazing to see your strength, Arklove and everybody here in this thread, and willingness to stick with this. Indeed, never give up!!! I won't, either. We must all stick to this and always hold the truth and light above everything else.

I have always had most faith in Michael Jackson fans above any fans of any other in the world, because I think they know what's up and what's right and will always seek justice for Michael.

I will always stay dedicated to this issue. Always. Michael has been a MASSIVE part of my life since I was 6 years old. He's changed my life in more ways than you can imagine.

If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Oh I can imagine how much he's changed your life. He's changed mine every day since I was put on this planet. I, like you, can hear a big difference in the vocals and have lots of doubts.

I'd like to see a source to samhabibs claims, though, that Michael rerecorded WBSS.

Also, Arklove, do you not think the 'like a vegetable' could just be backup vocals added? They come from the background, afterall.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

we still have no proof of that. Did he sing again the verses ?

any proof that it's not a demo of WBSS ?

Have you listened to WBSS 2008 remix? If so, what do your ears tell you?

The demo of WBSS released on disc 2 of TII sounds almost identical to the final version on Thriller. The 2008 remix is very different. It features mostly Akon, with additional lyrics. To me, the remix is not produced from the demo. Michael sang background to the new lyrics and re-record one verse. Michael's vocal is more silky and mature. It doesn't have the youthful energetic feeling from the original, but gentler and more soulful.

Again, please give the remix a listen and see whether you need any "proof".

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Oh I can imagine how much he's changed your life. He's changed mine every day since I was put on this planet. I, like you, can hear a big difference in the vocals and have lots of doubts.

I'd like to see a source to samhabibs claims, though, that Michael rerecorded WBSS.

Also, Arklove, do you not think the 'like a vegetable' could just be backup vocals added? They come from the background, afterall.

I don't have any doubts. I don't hear merely a difference, I hear a completely different person.

That 'like a vegetable' part is impossible to hear. When I read the lyrics of Monster, the first thing I did was try to listen to how the singer pronounces 'vegetable' the way Mike pronounces it - 'vegetabow'...Conveniently enough, that part is quite masked in the song, as 50 cent starts his rap at that part.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Yeah, but I really believe that part was added to try and be a clever reference and fit the whole feel of the song and wasn't actually intended to be in there from MJ himself. Just my opinion.

My doubts are that it's a completely different person, as well, what else would they be? I definitely hear Michael in these songs all over the place, if anything, I believe, they must have used some snippets of him actually singing parts of these songs.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Yeah, but I really believe that part was added to try and be a clever reference and fit the whole feel of the song and wasn't actually intended to be in there from MJ himself. Just my opinion.

My doubts are that it's a completely different person, as well, what else would they be? I definitely hear Michael in these songs all over the place, if anything, I believe, they must have used some snippets of him actually singing parts of these songs.

I don't believe Mike had anything to do with the song. At all. There are some ad libs from other songs. That's it.