Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@samhabib, so we can agree that MJ did record songs with Eddie, despite your thoughts that the songs on the album are fake?

 

[analogue]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

What's interesting to me is how out of all the leaked songs that have shown up online it's the only those three cascio tracks that people have questioned.

Also on the day Breaking News was relesed online and the uproar of it possily being fake started Do You Know Where Your Children Are was leaked that same day and at that time it was only a 20 second snipped and people knew right away that it was Michael Jackson singing.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

So then what was recorded at Akon's studio? Nothing? Cause it sure is credited. The lead vocals weren't done at the Cascio's studio, for the simple fact that the lead vocals aren't credited to them, only the backing vocals are credited to the Cascios, in the Thriller 25 booklet.

How stubborn can someone be, you were wrong in regards to where the lead vocals were done at, accept it and move on.

No.

You claimed that the credits for Thriller 25 specified lead vocals were recorded at Akon's studio.

According to Thriller 25's own credits, the lead vocals on WBSS 2008 weren't recorded at the Cascio's studio, only the backing vocals were. The lead vocals, which were re-recorded in 2007, was done at Akon's Konkast studio.

And then, when pressed, you changed your observation to claim that the credits didn't list 'lead vocals'.

So the actual credit is that backing vocals were recorded at the Cascios. And the location of the lead vocals recording is unspecified. That's the actual credit.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Where's audio or a quote from Prince saying that?

Oh, doesn't sound like daddy? Is that something they said?

Keep in mind that they just lost the most important person in their life not very long ago and they probably are still in such shock that it's hard for them to think of his new music.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@ love is magical, While I would love to say that it was recorded at the Cascio studio, we really don't have evidence of that. Plus, hasn't the studio been upgraded since? Eddie could've upgraded it when asked to record vocals for "Thriller 25" to get a more professional sound. Plus, that verse wasn't recorded to be a demo, he was probably going all out, and acting more professional than I theorize he was during the Cascio sessions.

Okay, let's assume the verse and the background vocals were not recorded at the Cascios studio. Is it fair for me to say WBSS 2008 was recorded in 2007? Even we cannot come to a conclusion to where the vocals were recorded, we can at least agree on the timing of the recording.

In 2007, Michael Jackson sounded great. He sounded like the Michael Jackson I love so much.

Poor equipment and Michael's effort are always cited as the reasons why the Cascio tracks sound so different. But, some music professionals have posted their opinons that poor equipment cannot change characteristic of one's voice. It may affect the overall quality of the recording.

We all heard how Michael sang casually in court, over the phone, etc... He sounded himself. Also, the vocals on the Cascio tracks don't sound casual to me. To me, the vocalist tried hard to reach the high notes.

 

[Casey R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Ah, but if Prince Michael really did say this, then it shows that Michael did indeed record with the Cascios. Then the question would be completely different : why would the Cascios, if they did record tracks with MJ, then disreguard the actual recordings, and use an impostor instead?

Bear in mind that Will.I.Am stated that, for security reasons, Will would leave the studio with the music multitracks on his hard drive, and Michael would leave with his vocal multitracks on his own hard drive.

I'm completely open to the possibility that Michael MIGHT have WRITTEN these songs, or at least parts of them. But, I do think if that's the case, that he did the same thing he did with Will and took the vocal files with him when he left.

Then, he passes, the Cascios still have the music and they remember the lyrics. Maybe they even still have any backing vocals recorded by other people like James Porte that were done at the same time. So they bring in someone like Malachi, teach him the lyrics and melodies and get him to do his best MJ impersonation.

Hence, no Michael vocals. In my own experience - adlibs are the final parts of the vocals that are recorded. That's how I work as a vocalist and so does every vocalist I know. So, if the songs weren't finished, then no adlibs would have been recorded in the first place, so they splice random ones in from older MJ songs.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Where's audio or a quote from Prince saying that?

Oh, doesn't sound like daddy? Is that something they said?

Keep in mind that they just lost the most important person in their life not very long ago and they probably are still in such shock that it's hard for them to think of his new music.

Oprah edited the quote out of her interview. Funny that. Sony-associated Oprah editing that out of her interview. And then a couple of weeks later dedicating a whole show to prove the vocals were legitimate.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@love is magical, I'll agree that the vocals for "Thriller 25" were probably recorded around 2007, possibly late 2007. I actually suggest that you all download a tool called "Virtual DJ" in 2000 Watts. Tone the speed down to -9% roughly, it's pretty interesting because it still (to me) sounds like MJ, but he's not hitting any high notes, he just... Well, sounds casual.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

No.

You claimed that the credits for Thriller 25 specified lead vocals were recorded at Akon's studio.



And then, when pressed, you changed your observation to claim that the credits didn't list 'lead vocals'.

So the actual credit is that backing vocals were recorded at the Cascios. And the location of the lead vocals recording is unspecified. That's the actual credit.

It does, you just don't want to believe it. I didn't change my observation, I would've stated the first time the term "lead vocals" aren't mentioned and instead said Michael's remix was recorded at Akon's studio. But it doesn't make a difference to anyone other than you.

I don't know how you can assume that the lead vocals were done somewhere, when the booklet itself clearly disputes your belief.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Then, he passes, the Cascios still have the music and they remember the lyrics.

Right... but Teddy Riley claimed that he only received vocal acapella tracks, ie. He received ZERO music.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Interesting fact, samhabib, and how do you know the quote was left out? Was this tweeted by somebody or what?

 

[Hicci]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Sorry for the silly question I'm going to ask but I don't really have much time to go back over this thread, so can anyone tell me why Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008 has come up in this argument?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I don't know how you can assume that the lead vocals were done somewhere, when the booklet itself clearly disputes your belief.

Where? Where does the booklet dispute where LEAD vocals were recorded?

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Bear in mind that Will.I.Am stated that, for security reasons, Will would leave the studio with the music multitracks on his hard drive, and Michael would leave with his vocal multitracks on his own hard drive.

I'm completely open to the possibility that Michael MIGHT have WRITTEN these songs, or at least parts of them. But, I do think if that's the case, that he did the same thing he did with Will and took the vocal files with him when he left.

Then, he passes, the Cascios still have the music and they remember the lyrics. Maybe they even still have any backing vocals recorded by other people like James Porte that were done at the same time. So they bring in someone like Malachi, teach him the lyrics and melodies and get him to do his best MJ impersonation.

Hence, no Michael vocals. In my own experience - adlibs are the final parts of the vocals that are recorded. That's how I work as a vocalist and so does every vocalist I know. So, if the songs weren't finished, then no adlibs would have been recorded in the first place, so they splice random ones in from older MJ songs.

This is extremely plausible. But again, you have the named guy, denying such an act.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@SCREAM, because that song was recorded at around late 2007, a bit after MJ stayed with the Cascios. Plus the new vocals were recorded by "Angelikson Productions", the nickname of Eddie Cascio.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Interesting fact, samhabib, and how do you know the quote was left out? Was this tweeted by somebody or what?

Because contents of the interview were reported worldwide before it was televised (ooooops Oprah!)

Three to five of the 10-12 tracks on Michael, out December 14 on Sony, were allegedly recorded at the New Jersey home of producer Eddie Cascio in 2007, when Michael and his children stayed there for four months working on remixes for the 25th-anniversary reissue of Thriller. Michael's son, Prince Michael, said this week that none of what he heard recorded then matches what he hears now on Michael, and that he believes the Cascio cuts were recorded posthumously by a Michael soundalike. Prince's sister, Paris, corroborated these claims--as did Michael's mother, Katherine, during an Oprah interview. Joe Jackson, Michael's dad, also protested the songs via a statement by his attorney.

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/thatsreallyweek/113631/nov-1-7-is-it-michael-or-is-it-memorex

Now why would the Sony-associated Harpo TV do that? Weeks before inviting guests on to claim the vocals are legitimate? Why would they do that?

 

[Hicci]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@SCREAM, because that song was recorded at around late 2007, a bit after MJ stayed with the Cascios. Plus the new vocals were recorded by "Angelikson Productions", the nickname of Eddie Cascio.

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

If anyone wishes to hear my results using "Virtual DJ", send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a snippet. I doubt this'll change anything, but it's interesting nonetheless.

@SCREAM, You're welcome!

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Bear in mind that Will.I.Am stated that, for security reasons, Will would leave the studio with the music multitracks on his hard drive, and Michael would leave with his vocal multitracks on his own hard drive.

I'm completely open to the possibility that Michael MIGHT have WRITTEN these songs, or at least parts of them. But, I do think if that's the case, that he did the same thing he did with Will and took the vocal files with him when he left.

Then, he passes, the Cascios still have the music and they remember the lyrics. Maybe they even still have any backing vocals recorded by other people like James Porte that were done at the same time. So they bring in someone like Malachi, teach him the lyrics and melodies and get him to do his best MJ impersonation.

Hence, no Michael vocals. In my own experience - adlibs are the final parts of the vocals that are recorded. That's how I work as a vocalist and so does every vocalist I know. So, if the songs weren't finished, then no adlibs would have been recorded in the first place, so they splice random ones in from older MJ songs.

This is extremely plausible. But again, you have the named guy, denying such an act.

@SCREAM, because that song was recorded at around late 2007, a bit after MJ stayed with the Cascios. Plus the new vocals were recorded by "Angelikson Productions", the nickname of Eddie Cascio.

Only the backing vocals were recorded by Angelikson Productions, it doesn't state anything about the leads being recorded there. I don't know how one can assume such a thing.


As for Sam, it says the remix was recorded 11/07, Michael and Akon are credited with the remix, the remix was recorded at Akon's studio, the remix was mixed by Mark Goodchild. Akon is credited with the remix instrumentation, but yet like I said before Michael and Akon are credited with the remix which was recorded in Akon's studio. So with that said, what do you think the term "remix" consists of? It isn't mixing, since the mixing of the remix also has it's own credit, so again, what do you think the remix consists of?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I think it sounds more mature, honestly. But I don't doubt that Michael could have rerecorded that one verse 200 different times, being the perfectionist he was.

I want to know why, if he sounded so great during this period of time, he only rerecorded one verse and didn't do a whole bunch. Obviously because he was tired, in my opinion.

I'm not going to speculate on how many takes they recorded. It could be one take or one thousand takes. One thing I'm pretty sure is that he sounded great in 2007. If he really was that tired and not ready, he could just step back and not record anything.

Thriller 25 was a re-issue. The point really was not for Michael to release much new material. They got Kayne West, Fergie, will.i.am and Akon involved in the remixes. I guess they want to appeal to the younger generation.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@Annie, sorry for my misquote. I've forgotten what the exact wording was in the booklet.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I'm not going to speculate on how many takes they recorded. It could be one take or one thousand takes. One thing I'm pretty sure is that he sounded great in 2007. If he really was that tired and not ready, he could just step back and not record anything.

Thriller 25 was a re-issue. The point really was not for Michael to release much new material. They got Kayne West, Fergie, will.i.am and Akon involved in the remixes. I guess they want to appeal to the younger generation.

So why'd he record the one verse, if it wasn't to release any new vocals? There's no way they could have done it the same way they did the other tracks?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

So why'd he record the one verse, if it wasn't to release any new vocals? There's no way they could have done it the same way they did the other tracks?

I guess only Michael could answer this question. Anyway, why you assume Michael was tired and not ready? He recorded Hold My Hand around the same time. He worked with will.i.am on and off. Didn't he sound great during the TII rehearsal? Wasn't he stressful and sleepless the whole time?

Keep in mind. Michael was a professional singer since the age of five. He said it himself he's more comfortable on stage and at a studio recording. To many of us, working at a studio is hard work. To Michael, he's himself at a studio. He's creating and expressing his feeling.

Don't you find it funny that we are now engaging ourselves in a discussion over Michael's readiness to record music? While we all know Michael never lost his singing ability till his last day with us.

The excuse list is getting lengthy. Poor equipment, home studio, amateur producers, no vocal coach, absence from recording, Michael's tired, Michael's not serious, PVC pipe, over-processing, melodyne...

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

In all fairness, the PVC Pipe "excuse" was only for backing vocals to go along with James Porte.

 

[loka]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The term "lead vocals" aren't mentioned in the credits, the term they use is remix, both Michael and Akon are credited for remix, it says remix was recorded 11/07. And it says the remix was recorded by Mark Goodchild, for KonKast Studios.


It specifically states, "backing vocals by Angelikson productions".

So the most Hated Guys here are behind WBSS 2008 ?

I can't stop laughing...sorry !

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

The excuse list is getting lengthy. Poor equipment, home studio, amateur producers, no vocal coach, absence from recording, Michael's tired, Michael's not serious, PVC pipe, over-processing, melodyne...

If any one of those held up to logic, there wouldn't be so many.

 

[Mac]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I literally cannot stop playing "Stay". Such a nice tune

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

So the most Hated Guys here are behind WBSS 2008 ?

I can't stop laughing...sorry !

The people who have doubt are not as hostile as suggested. For me, I don't dislike the Cascios.

The most frustrating thing is that we don't know what happened. We just want to find out the truth. Instead of attacking any family member or any individual, we are simply defending our ears - we don't hear Michael.

 

[jaXXXon]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

How does everyone feel about JM's ex producer making the statements about recording those songs with Malachi....

 

[djbaby]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

How does everyone feel about JM's ex producer making the statements about recording those songs with Malachi....

unsettled