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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

azsummergirl said:
i don't believe that this "can't be proved." i don't believe that we will never know the truth. we will. IF this is a fraud (which i obviously think it is) just think how many people would have to be involved with it. People know. At the very least, the impersonator singing the songs, whoever recorded the songs, and whoever agreed to move forward with them, knowing they were fake. this is definitely not unprovable, and i have faith that the truth will come out eventually.

really though, even if we never hear anything definite, it doesn't really matter. i have 100% confidence in my opinion, and that's good enough for me. i just wish this hadn't happened and i want justice for the fans and for michael's legacy.
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This is basically where I'm at with it. I don't need lawyers and court to prove to me which is quite obvious to my ears. I've been Michaeling WAY too long to be fooled by a cheap imposter that didn't even bother to do his proper homework, I mean really, if you're going to do something as ballsy as pretend to be the KOP at least get the diction and pronunciation down. I don't know if we'll ever get absolute confirmation by the parties involved but I have all I need to make the obvious conclusion.

I hope one day we'll know...lies run sprints, truth runs a marathon. Hopefully Sony won't try to dupe us again with more Casico tracks, I can't stand to hear more of that voice pretending to be Michael.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

jaXXXon said:
Hopefully Sony won't try to dupe us again with more Casico tracks, I can't stand to hear more of that voice pretending to be Michael.
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That's what I'm worried about.

It's bad enough that they've done this once. And it makes me sick to see so many fans accepting and defending these songs. Perhaps these fans are in denial, perhaps they don't want to believe that somebody would really do this. Granted, it IS unbelievable. If someone had told me this time last year that Sony would release an album with fake Michael songs I wouldn't have believed it!

But truth is stranger than fiction. If they continue to release these shitty Cascio songs then the estate seriously run the risk of permanantly alienating a lot of hardcore fans from purchasing any future MJ releases.

I hope it's true that John McClain didn't want these songs to be on the album. Maybe he'll be the voice of reason in the future.

Does anyone else think it's strange how quiet the family have been since the albums release? I wonder if they've been "silenced" somehow by the estate??
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

MattyJam said:
Does anyone else think it's strange how quiet the family have been since the albums release? I wonder if they've been "silenced" somehow by the estate??
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I do indeed find this a bit strange especially given how vocal they are. Although some people have said in other threads that the Jacksons have already made their point and don't need to continue to make statements about the subject, I honestly feel there's more to it. Perhaps, the Estate/Sony have secretly promised not to release any of the questionable tracks as singles in exchange for their silence?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Just out of curiousity, what's more definitive than, "...My client did not sing a single note on the album."?
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This is:

[youtube]006P1H73GnQ[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
This is:

[youtube]006P1H73GnQ[/youtube]
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According to audiologists hired by SONY, it is Michael's voice on that video, not Malachi's. Malachi is doing it playback. :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
According to audiologists hired by SONY, it is Michael's voice on that video, not Malachi's. Malachi is doing it playback. :D
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Audiologists... I would LOVE to see their findings... would LOVE to see them.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
It was completely damning. And the video featured the unprocessed acapella at it's correct tempo - something that NONE of the Sony employees provided - which still sounded all but identical to the finished, processed vocals.

What Tony Kurtis provided was completely damning. The vocals were the same vocals on the finished tracks just without the pitching and tuning. He obviously had access to the original vocal track. Which NONE of the Sony employees allowed us to hear.
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???

LOL! He didn't upload anything damning, just a self-made pitched-down version.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Korgnex said:
???

LOL! He didn't upload anything damning, just a self-made pitched-down version.
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So, by definition, correctly pitched. As even by Teddy Riley's own admission, the vocals on the finished tracks are pitched up.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

deano said:
So, with this latest (one of a long list) conspiracy theory, the Jacksons can be 'bought' and are not trustworthy?

Come on guys. You're confusing yourselves here, let alone everybody else!

When it suits once of your conspiracies - the Jacksons are the only ones to believe & trust.

When it suits another - the Jacksons have gone silent because they are in league with Sony/the Estate and have been 'bought off'?

Please!

Perhaps the Jacksons have gone silent because they have seen the proof and, although most of them are not very bright, they're bright enough to know when they are wrong.

It's a pity that level of intelligence doesn't quite stretch to some others I can think of!

See you in court. LOL!
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If I had to follow your logic I should accuse my own ears of being conspiracy theorists.

You really don't seem to understand that OUR EARS don't hear Michael Jackson on those songs. It has nothing to do with any conspiracy. The conspiracy is the next logical thing to think about, but the ABSOLUTE FIRST thing in all this mess is that WE DON'T HEAR MICHAEL set aside any theory whatsoever.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

deano said:
So, with this latest (one of a long list) conspiracy theory, the Jacksons can be 'bought' and are not trustworthy?

Come on guys. You're confusing yourselves here, let alone everybody else!

When it suits once of your conspiracies - the Jacksons are the only ones to believe & trust.

When it suits another - the Jacksons have gone silent because they are in league with Sony/the Estate and have been 'bought off'?

Please!

Perhaps the Jacksons have gone silent because they have seen the proof and, although most of them are not very bright, they're bright enough to know when they are wrong.

It's a pity that level of intelligence doesn't quite stretch to some others I can think of!

See you in court. LOL!
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If the Jacksons have seen the proof and now believe the tracks are real, why not say so? Moreover, a conspiracy is defined as "a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act" which is not at all what I am saying. There doesn't need to be an admission from Sony/the Estate that the tracks are not authentic for them to agree not to release any of them. Please also know that I strongly support the album and purchased a copy on the first day it was available. Anyway, back to the subject of the thread which is not about the Jacksons...
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
Audiologists... I would LOVE to see their findings... would LOVE to see them.
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What... now you answer as if Bumper wasn't sarcastic about this JM "Don't walk away"...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Garden said:
What... now you answer as if Bumper wasn't sarcastic about this JM "Don't walk away"...
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Are you deliberately trying to argue with me? I replied to Bumper. Why does my reply to him bother you?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
If I had to follow your logic I should accuse my own ears of being conspiracy theorists.

You really don't seem to understand that OUR EARS don't hear Michael Jackson on those songs. It has nothing to do with any conspiracy. The conspiracy is the next logical thing to think about, but the ABSOLUTE FIRST thing in all this mess is that WE DON'T HEAR MICHAEL set aside any theory whatsoever.
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Agree with you Bumper, only 1 thing, you can speak about YOUR ears, not about other persons ears. And I don't want to say they all lie, far from that. Only thing I want to say is that our audition is not subjective enough. Perception and interpretation is not an absolutely exact thing like 1+1= 2.
And we don't see molecules without a microscope neither, do we? But they are there!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
If I had to follow your logic I should accuse my own ears of being conspiracy theorists.

You really don't seem to understand that OUR EARS don't hear Michael Jackson on those songs. It has nothing to do with any conspiracy. The conspiracy is the next logical thing to think about, but the ABSOLUTE FIRST thing in all this mess is that WE DON'T HEAR MICHAEL set aside any theory whatsoever.
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I haven't got a problem with your ears not hearing it Bumper, I really haven't.

What I have a problem with is the numerous conspiracies being banded about that must involve, all added together, hundreds of people all keeping quiet about a, so-called, fraud.

I know people hate it when I use other high profile 'conspiracies' as an example, but this one would really need to be on the same scale as the 'hoax' moon landings - thousands of people keeping quiet about an international fraud.

To some people - and I'm talking millions across the world - there is 'conclusive proof' that man did not land on the moon (go google 'hoax moon landings' and you will see) and they will not accept anything to the contrary.

You may not see the similarities here but, from someone looking at it from the outside, the 'boycotters' have about the same credibility as the 'moon landings were a hoax' supporters!

If we are to believe everything just based on what 'our own' ears hear, or 'our own' eyes see, rather than science and technology, then we really could be in a lot of trouble.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

deano said:
I haven't got a problem with your ears not hearing it Bumper, I really haven't.

What I have a problem with is the numerous conspiracies being banded about that must involve, all added together, hundreds of people all keeping quiet about a, so-called, fraud.

I know people hate it when I use other high profile 'conspiracies' as an example, but this one would really need to be on the same scale as the 'hoax' moon landings - thousands of people keeping quiet about an international fraud.

To some people - and I'm talking millions across the world - there is 'conclusive proof' that man did not land on the moon (go google 'hoax moon landings' and you will see) and they will not accept anything to the contrary.

You may not see the similarities here but, from someone looking at it from the outside, the 'boycotters' have about the same credibility as the 'moon landings were a hoax' supporters!

If we are to believe everything just based on what 'our own' ears hear, or 'our own' eyes see, rather than science and technology, then we really could be in a lot of trouble.
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Where is the result of the scientific analysis? What are the methods the so-called audiologists conducted to verfiy the authenticity? Who are the audiologists hired by Sony? When the tests were done? How were the tests being done?

Unfortunately, thus far, the only "scientific" evidence you rely on, is a statement made by a lawyer representing the Estate. That statement is as filmsy as you can get. I don't understand why so many people believe the Estate administrators so religiously. Afterall, Messer McClain and Branca are a music executive and a lawyer, not necesarrily the two most integral professions in this world.

All along, I feel I place too much faith in the Estate and underestimate my own Michael Jackson knowledge. When the This Is It/Paul Anka fiasco happened, I gave the Estate benefit of doubts. I thought they didn't have enough time to thoroughly inventory songs in the vault. People make mistakes. It's okay. Although I expect higher competency and fiduciary care, I understood the situation and hoped they did a better job next time. But, the incidence did prove that many fans have better knowledge on Michael Jackson's music than those two business professionals and the people they hired.

My point is that the Estate administrators and Sony are not the better people here. They may be powerful and more business savvy, but they are not more familiar with Michael's music than us.

I don't trust them, not because I don't trust science (for they haven't offered us any scientific evidence whatsoever). I don't trust them because their top priority is to make a profit, not to ensure artistic quality. Thier priority is not one that I share.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Lol, just makes me laugh how everyone thinks there opinion is final reading through this lol
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Garden said:
Agree with you Bumper, only 1 thing, you can speak about YOUR ears, not about other persons ears. And I don't want to say they all lie, far from that. Only thing I want to say is that our audition is not subjective enough. Perception and interpretation is not an absolutely exact thing like 1+1= 2.
And we don't see molecules without a microscope neither, do we? But they are there!
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About MY ears? Are you saying that I am the only one who don't hear Michael? I said OUR ears, because we are many.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

love is magical said:
Where is the result of the scientific analysis? What are the methods the so-called audiologists conducted to verfiy the authenticity? Who are the audiologists hired by Sony? When the tests were done? How were the tests being done?

Unfortunately, thus far, the only "scientific" evidence you rely on, is a statement made by a lawyer representing the Estate. That statement is as filmsy as you can get. I don't understand why so many people believe the Estate administrators so religiously. Afterall, Messer McClain and Branca are a music executive and a lawyer, not necesarrily the two most integral professions in this world.

All along, I feel I place too much faith in the Estate and underestimate my own Michael Jackson knowledge. When the This Is It/Paul Anka fiasco happened, I gave the Estate benefit of doubts. I thought they didn't have enough time to thoroughly inventory songs in the vault. People make mistakes. It's okay. Although I expect higher competency and fiduciary care, I understood the situation and hoped they did a better job next time. But, the incidence did prove that many fans have better knowledge on Michael Jackson's music than those two business professionals and the people they hired.

My point is that the Estate administrators and Sony are not the better people here. They may be powerful and more business savvy, but they are not more familiar with Michael's music than us.

I don't trust them, not because I don't trust science (for they haven't offered us any scientific evidence whatsoever). I don't trust them because their top priority is to make a profit, not to ensure artistic quality. Thier priority is not one that I share.
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And also, have the audiologists compared the vocals to some of JAson's tracks? I'd be curious to see the results. I wonder what audiologist would dare say that none of the Cascio tracks ressembles Jason's vocals more than Michael's.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
If I had to follow your logic I should accuse my own ears of being conspiracy theorists.

You really don't seem to understand that OUR EARS don't hear Michael Jackson on those songs. It has nothing to do with any conspiracy. The conspiracy is the next logical thing to think about, but the ABSOLUTE FIRST thing in all this mess is that WE DON'T HEAR MICHAEL set aside any theory whatsoever.
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
And also, have the audiologists compared the vocals to some of JAson's tracks? I'd be curious to see the results. I wonder what audiologist would dare say that none of the Cascio tracks ressembles Jason's vocals more than Michael's.
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But this is the point. Just because Jm can occasionally 'sound like' MJ (and vice versa?), that really doesn't matter - it's not scientific.

Mike Yarwood (ask your dad :wink:) used to do a great impersonation of Ted Heath - and if their eyes were closed he probably could have fooled a fair few on here - but he was still Mike Yarwood!

Didn't the family also employ their own 'voice experts'? Perhaps that's why they have gone quiet??
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

deano said:
But this is the point. Just because Jm can occasionally 'sound like' MJ (and vice versa?), that really doesn't matter - it's not scientific.

Mike Yarwood (ask your dad :wink:) used to do a great impersonation of Ted Heath - and if they're eyes were closed he probably could have fooled a fair few on here - but he was still Mike Yarwood!

Didn't the family also employ their own 'voice experts'? Perhaps that's why they have gone quiet??
Click to expand...

If you have details of the scientific analysis, please do share.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

deano said:
But this is the point. Just because Jm can occasionally 'sound like' MJ (and vice versa?), that really doesn't matter - it's not scientific.

Mike Yarwood (ask your dad :wink:) used to do a great impersonation of Ted Heath - and if their eyes were closed he probably could have fooled a fair few on here - but he was still Mike Yarwood!

Didn't the family also employ their own 'voice experts'? Perhaps that's why they have gone quiet??
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I doubt that they would have gone quiet without making any kind of statement rectifying what they had been saying. No such statement has been issued so far. So their silence does not indicate that they agree with Teddy and Cascio.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

love is magical said:
If you have details of the scientific analysis, please do share.
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Apparently it's OK to just say that there is scientific proof. You don't have to show it. Just say it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
Apparently it's OK to just say that there is scientific proof. You don't have to show it. Just say it.
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Lol, ok then. The Jacksons have the biological-DNA proof it is not their brother/uncle/father/son singing.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
Apparently it's OK to just say that there is scientific proof. You don't have to show it. Just say it.
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And there is a HUGE difference between believing in science and believing in people who claimed to be scientific.

I believe in science; so, show me the result of their scientific study. Then, I'll go from there.

Btw, hello Bumper. :cheeky:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
About MY ears? Are you saying that I am the only one who don't hear Michael? I said OUR ears, because we are many.
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OK, from many posts I learn that you like to say "WE hear", so how can YOU hear through all that many ears? YOU have 1 pair of ears, don't you?
Each of us has their OWN pair of ears :).
:) I'll stop it, this becomes too silly.

Don't be mad now... I think we just are SO different. I for me, I can hardly judge what my OWN ears hear... I can't speak for other persons ears.
Or am I joking? Well, this does make me feel silly but with a sence of humour :)!

Gorgeous new avatar anyway! (You rock MJ and you're BAD!!
 
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