Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

1) The argument that the vibrato on the cascio tracks sounds weird because of melodyne/editing makes no sense to me. If that's the case, why do stay and all i need, 2 unreleased tracks that were presumably not edited for the cd, sound exactly the same? That vibrato doesn't even sound manipulated to me. it just sounds like jason malachi.

2) we will never see proof that michael sang on those songs. for there to be proof, mj would have had to sing on those tracks. and he didn't. so proof doesn't exist. any "proof" they come up with will be something the cascios create now, after-the-fact.

this is frustrating me beyond belief.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Ah, but my argument is that he was just being casual, he didn't have to be "Michael Jackson" with these people. They were extremely close with him, they didn't expect him to be a performer around them. Outside of his home, MJ had to be "Michael Jackson", regardless if it was at a deposition or otherwise. At least, that's my theory.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

1) The argument that the vibrato on the cascio tracks sounds weird because of melodyne/editing makes no sense to me. If that's the case, why do stay and all i need, 2 unreleased tracks that were presumably not edited for the cd, sound exactly the same? That vibrato doesn't even sound manipulated to me. it just sounds like jason malachi.

2) we will never see proof that michael sang on those songs. for there to be proof, mj would have had to sing on those tracks. and he didn't. so proof doesn't exist. any "proof" they come up with will be something the cascios create now, after-the-fact.

this is frustrating me beyond belief.

Completely agree...As I've said before, among others, if they had proof, it would have been shown on Oprah...People may say 'Oh, they have nothing to prove, the onus is on the doubters to prove the Cascios are lying'...Then why did they go on Oprah in the first place? To me, the ONLY reason they should have gone on Oprah was to PROVE that it's indeed Michael singing on those tracks. And, I think we all knew that wasn't going to happen. They decide to finally come out and speak about their relationship with Michael in the midst of a new album.....? After ALL these years? Now they decide to do that?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Ah, but my argument is that he was just being casual, he didn't have to be "Michael Jackson" with these people. They were extremely close with him, they didn't expect him to be a performer around them. Outside of his home, MJ had to be "Michael Jackson", regardless if it was at a deposition or otherwise. At least, that's my theory.

What makes you think that he was less Michael Jackson on stage than at home (or vice versa)? Your argument sounds as if he had a double personality. As far as his singing skills ar concerned, Michael had always been Michael.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^Arklove: To promote the album.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^Arklove: To promote the album.

What a promotion, lol. "Hello people, you know, Michael is singing on his album.":D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well, MJ was always so powerful on stage, but shy in real life. You don't think that he was different at home than being on stage? I'd imagine he'd like the quiet to work on his music with no pressure of having to be Michael Jackson to people around him.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well, MJ was always so powerful on stage, but shy in real life. You don't think that he was different at home than being on stage? I'd imagine he'd like the quiet to work on his music with no pressure of having to be Michael Jackson to people around him.

Michael's home was on stage. Dig it out, you'll hear it from his own mouth.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^Arklove: To promote the album.

What promotion? I didn't see any promotion for the album...They talked about their relationship with Michael. Why would they do that?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Because people like to hear about what Michael was like?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Because people like to hear about what Michael was like?

No, they went there to justify the vocals that everyone is doubting.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Really? It seemed like Oprah was just doing Michael Jackson themed things. His 'mysterious second family', and 'Lisa Marie Presley'... because the album was coming out.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Arklove: To have an interesting inside story about their bond with Michael and how he was as a family friend. People want to know all about Michael, and since his death it's not just the scandals they are intersted in, but the human being that was Michael, the father, the friend. This is a good thing imo. I'm talking about the general public of course. This is why the Cascio's were invited and to tell something about the album of course, but this was mainly done by Teddy. This kind of indirect promo is one of the few promotional tools without the artist performing the songs.

The general public and music critics aren't too bothered by this controversy. They shrug it off as fanmade. So Oprah will not devote her entire Michael segment on this for others hardly interesting part of the story. It's about human interest instead.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

While Michael's natural home was on stage, he did have a life outside of music. Remember, he was geared up to start making films, if it weren't for various things making that impossible for him. However, as Michael Bearden said "His music became his thoughts" and even when he was "off" of the stage, he would still record them down, perfect Michael Jackson vocals or not.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Arklove: To have an interesting inside story about their bond with Michael and how he was as a family friend. People want to know all about Michael, and since his death it's not just the scandals they are intersted in, but the human being that was Michael, the father, the friend. This is a good thing imo. I'm talking about the general public of course. This is why the Cascio's were invited and to tell something about the album of course, but this was mainly done by Teddy. This kind of indirect promo is one of the few promotional tools without the artist performing the songs.

The general public and music critics aren't too bothered by this controversy. They shrug it off as fanmade. So Oprah will not devote her entire Michael segment on this for others hardly interesting part of the story. It's about human interest instead.

Oprah is as fake as those tracks. She never supported Michael, never. And when Michael died, the only interest she had was the audience thanks to which she earns money.

The Cascio brought some pictures of their studio, some private movies with Michael. It was nice and sweet, but they weren't convincing regarding the tracks. When asked all they said was assuring it was Michael singing, but without any other proof than being backed by Teddy. "I say, he says"-- great proof!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

First and foremost importantly

And yet you want to claim that 3T might have malicious intents?

sometimes I wonder if my posts are even read carefully. To be clear I didn't claim anything. My point was we don't personally know any of the parties involved and we cannot be sure about their intentions. They can be good , they can be bad - none of us know it for sure.

The others were examples to show that easily an opposite argument could be made as well - again goes to the point that "none of us know anything for certain".

Is there any evidence to suggest that Taryll knows or has anything to do with the Cascio's? No. So, you're just pulling ideas out of thin air.

Taryll on his twitter said bad things about Cascio's personality and behavior. so yeah he has an predetermined negative opinion about Cascio's by his own admittance.

Regarding Cory and Taryll's song.... do you see them attacking Akon? Lenny Kravitz? Neff-U? The Cascio songs represent only 30% of the album.

do you realize that all the other people and the songs are from professionally known famous musicians and only these 3 are from unknown (in the music industry) Eddie Cascio and James Porte. the above example is like comparing apples to oranges.

But to even suggest that a third generation family member would even dare to try and take advantage is RIDICULOUS. That they might exploit their uncle for their own personal gain? PLEASE. These guys might be least malicious adults in the whole family.

Again I didn't make any claims I said that you simply cannot know for sure. There's no rule that says because someone are third generation they must be angels, similarly there's no rule that says because someone released a song after MJ's death, they must be opportunistic liars.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but please do not present it as an indisputable fact. As I provided an example in the past post it's possible to make an argument for the contrary.

Irrelevant point. Both Taj and Jackie have a say in the Estate. They are the ONLY family members that do. If you read the album credits you'll see both of their names in the list of people that assist the Estate, and they are the only family members listed.

You didn't understand me - estate executors get 5% from each deal they bring in. I'm sure Taryll or Jackie doesn't get 5% of the money and what I meant was the bid to "remove the executors" to get the 5% fee. Plus why would money be an acceptable motive for Cascio and Teddy etc and not for Jackson's?

kreen - 3T don't have anything to prove. They aren't the ones selling questionable vocals for millions of dollars with no evidence. That's why.

again not to sound like a broken record - legally speaking if 3T is the one who are making the claims they are ones required to prove it.

Ivy, thank you so much for your response. Again, it's not my intention to challege you, so the question at the end is somewhat unnecessary.

oh I didn't mean it in a negative way. I meant to ask if you need any more detailed explanation. hopefully we wouldn't have any misunderstandings.

The doubters do not attack necessarily anyone as we don't know who's fault it is in this whole mess. We simply defend the idea that we don't hear Michael on those tracks.

Perhaps you don't attack anyone but I have especially seen Cascio's being called everything under the sun by some doubters.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

While Michael's natural home was on stage, he did have a life outside of music. Remember, he was geared up to start making films, if it weren't for various things making that impossible for him. However, as Michael Bearden said "His music became his thoughts" and even when he was "off" of the stage, he would still record them down, perfect Michael Jackson vocals or not.

What I meant is that he didn't feel more pressure on stage than in his private life. After so many years doing the same job do you think you get stressed, especially when you love what you do? It is as if you said that the teacher who is in front of his classroom gets stressed after 30 years of teaching. Michael was a teacher, not a student on stage.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Perhaps you don't attack anyone but I have especially seen Cascio's being called everything under the sun by some doubters.

That's the second reaction. But the first reaction is: "We don't hear Michael."

p.s. Did you listen to STAY?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Yes, but even when you do something that you love, there has to be a time where you just have a rest. It's like when I play video games. There are some times when I'm on my A-game, but other times I'm just messing around. That is my downtime with gaming, it is similar to what I'm trying to convey. MJ didn't always have to be "on" with his music during the early conception of it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Oprah is as fake as those tracks. She never supported Michael, never. And when Michael died, the only interest she had was the audience thanks to which she earns money.

The Cascio brought some pictures of their studio, some private movies with Michael. It was nice and sweet, but they weren't convincing regarding the tracks. When asked all they said was assuring it was Michael singing, but without any other proof than being backed by Teddy. "I say, he says"-- great proof!

My point was that the entire Oprah visit wasn't about proving those tracks, it was about shedding some light on how Michael was as a family friend. The fans made it out to be this moment of truth, while in reality this wasn't the goal of Oprah, nor Sony or Cascio's. It was just promotion.

Regardless of Oprah's intentions, I think all her Michaell related shows since his death were ok. I get the impression she regrets her former stance on MJ and tries to correct it somehow, but that's an entirely different subject.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Yes, but even when you do something that you love, there has to be a time where you just have a rest. It's like when I play video games. There are some times when I'm on my A-game, but other times I'm just messing around. That is my downtime with gaming, it is similar to what I'm trying to convey. MJ didn't always have to be "on" with his music during the early conception of it.

I'm afraid that it's a bad comparison.

When you play a game you are vegetative, passive.

When you create music and perform, you are energetic, active. Huge difference.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It kinda depends on the game. There are some games where I have to move around because I'm so immersed in it.

Well as fun as has been to debate with you Bumper Snippet, love is magical and Arklove, I have school in the morning and it is currently midnight, so I must say goodbye. Don't debate too much without me! :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

My point was that the entire Oprah visit wasn't about proving those tracks, it was about shedding some light on how Michael was as a family friend. The fans made it out to be this moment of truth, while in reality this wasn't the goal of Oprah, nor Sony or Cascio's. It was just promotion.

Regardless of Oprah's intentions, I think all her Michaell related shows since his death were ok. I get the impression she regrets her former stance on MJ and tries to correct it somehow, but that's an entirely different subject.

She regrets to have sided with the wrong people. That's what you get when you are greedy. She should have promoted Michael before, when he was in trouble.now it's too late. Michael is not there and we should pity Oprah?

The Cascio's job was not to promote. SONY is in charge of promotion. Cascio should go back to their business, inventing calculators or something.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

She regrets to have sided with the wrong people. That's what you get when you are greedy. She should have promoted Michael before, when he was in trouble.now it's too late. Michael is not there and we should pity Oprah?

The Cascio's job was not to promote. SONY is in charge of promotion. Cascio should go back to their business, inventing calculators or something.

Oprah doesn't need our pity, but I say better late than never in this case. The blatant hate and coldness towards people we don't know, be it Oprah, Cascio's, Teddy, Jacksons, astonishes me always on this forum. We are not to judge about them or their presumed intentions.

It was promotion. Everybody and their mother is on Oprah for promotion purposes only.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ I'm just curious,Roosje...Was it for promotion or for human interest?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ I'm just curious,Roosje...Was it for promotion or for human interest?
What?!?!?!?!

Is that not the same thing? Is promotion not to get humans interested in a product? What planet are we on again?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^^ Aniram, no, that's not what I mean, and it's not what Roosje meant....

Roosje mentioned first that it was for promotion, then said it was a way for the Cascio's to talk about Michael as a human being, and as their friend....In other words, 'human interest'....
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I know, but that's what they did. I think the whole thing was obviously set up by Sony as promotion. You don't just randomly get selected to be on Oprah's show for no reason. Teddy Riley being there, I think, confirms that Sony played a big part in setting that up.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I know, but that's what they did. I think the whole thing was obviously set up by Sony as promotion. You don't just randomly get selected to be on Oprah's show for no reason. Teddy Riley being there, I think, confirms that Sony played a big part in setting that up.

Well, to me, they've accomplished nothing on that show...My point is, they had a perfect platform to prove the vocals were indeed Mike's - they didn't do this besides a pathetic 'It is Michael' from both Teddy and the Cascios. That doesn't tell me shit, sorry...And, yes, the Cascios stated what a great person Michael was, but obviously that wasn't Oprah's intention to portray as she pushed the allegations as she always does...So, it really is difficult to tell exactly why that show was set up....
 
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