Michael - The Great Album Debate

ivy;3317259 said:
It was Jackie not Randy.

Yes, it was Jackie Jackson & Roger Friedman:

DibujoDAS-5.jpg


More excuses to not accept that McClain & Jackson Family did not want those tracks on the album?.

What will you told me to try to take down my coments?.

Please stop fighting againts the Jackson family and the rest of fan who thinks it´s not Michael Jackson.
 
Kapital77;3317292 said:
What will you told me to try to take down my coments?.Please, stop.

huh? I didn't tell you to take down anything.

I wrote / acknowledged what Jackie and Roger Friedman said.

I told you that McClain himself didn't give a direct statement, and that he had a known health issue and a principle of not attending events.

All of which is common knowledge.

You can evaluate them anyway you want, I can evaluate them any way I want. It's called freedom of opinion.

ps: It's quite disrespectful to push your opinion like something that everyone must accept and obey. (in reference to "Please stop fighting againts the Jackson family and the rest of fan who thinks it´s not Michael Jackson.").
 
This is what Roger Friedman said:

Michael Jackson: New Album Pits His Family Against Friends, Estate

It’s not easy putting out this new Michael Jackson album. In fact, it’s turned into a war among family and friends.

There are big, big problems concerning which tracks to put on an album of unreleased material that’s supposed to be in stores for Christmas. Right now, even as you read this, Sony Music is struggling with all the parties involved to finalize details and start making CDs.

The biggest issues have come because of what’s known as the “Cascio” tracks. Five of them are so good that they’ve been slated for inclusion. But there’s the rub. According to sources, co-executor John McClain has poisoned the water with Katherine Jackson regarding the Cascio family. On Monday, Mrs. Jackson apparently insisted that no tracks from the Cascio sessions be included.

Adding to the anti-Cascio field are Tito Jackson‘s sons, known as the 3 T’s. The middle T, Taryll, is said to be very bitter about the Cascios. “For years the T’s tried to get Michael to record their songs,” says an insider. “Now they’re faced with the fact that Michael recorded with the Cascios, and not them. They’re not happy.”

Adding to the trouble is that the T’s and McClain have evidently drawn Michael’s two eldest children into the fight. Prince and Paris were with their father when he stayed at the New Jersey home of close family friends Dominic and Connie Cascio from August to November, 2007. They witnessed their father working with Cascio sons Eddie and Frank, and singer Bobby Ewing.

The Ts, who are close to the children, especially Terrell, according to sources, have pressured the children to say the vocals on the tracks are not those of their father. Initially, Prince Jackson, 13, had vouched for the recordings. But recently, an email was sent to the estate’s executors from Paris, 11, claiming the voice belongs to an impostor. The only problem, sources say, is that the email was time stamped while Paris was in school.

In the end, it may not matter what the Ts, Michael’s children, or his mother, or John McClain thinks. Sony made a deal with the estate earlier this year that could be worth $200 million. They’re so keen on the Cascio tracks they even hired forensic audiologists to make sure the vocals are Michael’s and not those of an imitator. The Jackson family will likely have to accept those findings and let the estate and Sony proceed with the album.

By the way, Branca was the insider of many of the Mj´s news that Roger Friedman posted on his web.


Roger Friedman was the person who fooled Sony and many fans with his promotion of the Cascio´s tracks. He promoted and tried so hard to sell the tracks to Sony.

I will never forget Roger Friedman, he was the first person who fooled everyone.

He never supported Mj when he was alive, but when he left us, Roger started to support Mj with those fake tracks.
 
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Kapital77;3317320 said:
By the way, Branca was the insider of many of the Mj´s news that Roger Friedman posted on his web.

actually I personally don't think so. Branca (and Weitzman) has communications with Harvey Levin of TMZ (Harvey told so). Friedman has communications with Randy , Joe Jackson (Roger told so) as well as Cascio's (as he got the first info about the Cascio songs).
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think what's happened is everything has been overanalyzed...There was a hype of creating some sort of big conspiracy or fraud when there is none of that going on..These songs, I will acknowledge, they don't sound like Michael..but when the vocals are raw and have to be processed as much as they did, they will sound like a completely different person..I feel, as Ivy said a lonnng time ago..This is more a moral debate...Is it ok to release songs that don't sound like Michael, but are him? I don't believe it's a question if they are him or not...They are 100% Michael...IMO.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What if the other songs leak with raw vocals and still sounds the same as the released ones?
 
Sorry for my words, but I said that because you never accept whatever we told you. You always said:

It´s tabloid.
It´s Friedman.
It was only Jackie.

What´s next?

By the way, more from Friedman:

Michael Jackson: Deal For New Album Cut Late Last Night

This “Breaking News”–also the title of the first single from Michael Jackson‘s new album, written and produced by Eddie Cascio.

Sony Music just sent out a cover picture for Michael Jackson‘s album — called “Michael”– set for December 14th.

Yesterday I was told there was no deal brokered yet between all the fractious parties in the Jackson camp. Co executor John McClain was still claiming that the vocals on some of the tracks weren’t Michael’s.

Sony seems to disagree. They’ve made their move.

MORE: The album will include at least four or five of the “Cascio” tracks, produced mostly by Teddy Riley, including the single. Apparently the estate settled all internal political issues, as outlined here first and exclusively (thanks TMZ for mucking around in our area).

The decision was made by all parties finally at 11pm last night.

And so it goes.

More to come, of course…

Was McClain supporting the Cascio´s tracks?.

NOT !!!
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What if the other songs leak with raw vocals and still sounds the same as the released ones?

Well, I don't think they will sound the same as the released ones. They will sound like Michael, because they are Michael...Like I said, a lot of people have gotten swept up into the whole "Oh it's doesn't sound like Michael, therefore it's not him!!" hype..They analyzed the voice, they took every precaution to make sure it is him....There is no fraud attempt happening here..The executors get more money based on how well the projects do...To think they would risk everything to put some fake songs...I could never believe that..Although I was sooo very wary/unsure about these songs for quite some time...I'm 10000% convinced they are Michael.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I posted 2 sources that told McClain did not want those tracks on the album because they were not Michael Jackson.

What more can i give?.
 
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Tsukiji;3317341 said:
Well, I don't think they will sound the same as the released ones. They will sound like Michael, because they are Michael...Like I said, a lot of people have gotten swept up into the whole "Oh it's doesn't sound like Michael, therefore it's not him!!" hype..They analyzed the voice, they took every precaution to make sure it is him....There is no fraud attempt happening here..The executors get more money based on how well the projects do...To think they would risk everything to put some fake songs...I could never believe that..Although I was sooo very wary of these songs for quite some time...I'm 10000% convinced they are Michael.

Did you heard the comparison audios?.

It´s Malachi.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Sorry for my words, but I said that because you never accept whatever we told you.

well you (and some other people) don't accept anything I say too. So I guess we are even :)

This is a debate thread , we don't have to convince each other or come to an agreement. As long as we are respectful everything is acceptable.
 
Kapital77;3317346 said:
Did you heard the comparison audios?.

It´s Malachi.

I have heard a lot of comparisons..And trust me, I used to be skeptical about these tracks..There are parts that sound off, but that doesn't mean it's him...I know it's hard, because we as people, we judge who's voice it is with our ears..but that doesn't mean it's not Michael..They did the analyzing of the voice, now I don't know if they analyzed the raw vocals or when the song was completed, but they confirmed it's him..There are also many times in the songs that I hear Michael..Again...raw vocals+processed will cause the voice to be the way it is.

I believe they are Michael, completely.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

He may not have wanted them on the album because he was worried they didn't sound enough like Michael and possible reaction like we've seen..But that doesn't mean they are not Michael on the tracks ..Which I believe Michael is on..Just very raw vocals..

Then, I'm afraid Mr. McClain's worry is right.

As for the vocals on the Cascio tracks, they are far from being very raw vocals. I consider the voice message that preceded TWYLM very raw vocals. What are on the Cascio tracks are over-processed vocals with truck loads of autotune and melodyne.

Someone not wanting the tracks on the album doesn't nesecarlly mean they are worried it's not Michael..It could mean they might have been worried about reaction to the songs...The Estate and Sony did forensic analyzing the vocals..Along with people who worked with Michael for years, and all of them say it's Michael..So it is him, may not sound like him completely, but it is him.

I'm willing to believe the vocals are Michael's. However, that doesn't make the songs genuine because of the way the songs are processed. They might have tiny bit of new vocals from Michael that are usable. They mixed this tiny bit of vocals from Michael with backing vocals and some old MJ vocals. Cut and paste all these vocals together, process them, autotune them and melodyne tham. As a result, we end up having these half baked Cascio tracks.

The instrumentations on the Cascio tracks are not created by Michael. The music are created by Eddie, Teddy and other producers after Michael's death. When people say "it is him", I wonder how much of the song is really Michael's?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have heard a lot of comparisons..And trust me, I was very skeptical about these tracks..At times those tracks sound very Malachi like, but that doesn't mean it's him...I know it's hard, because we as people, we judge who's voice it is with our ears..but that doesn't mean it's not Michael..They did the analyzing of the voice, now I don't know if they analyzed the raw vocals or when the song was completed, but they confirmed it's him..There are also many times in the songs that I hear Michael..Again...raw vocals+processed will cause the voice to be the way it is.

*facepalm* "at times they sound very malachi-like, but that doesn't mean it's him"???????

actually, that's exactly what that means. find an example of an existing michael jackson song where he sounds "very malachi-like" for even one second. you won't. because michael jackson always sounds like michael jackson. what. the. heck.

No one listened to my audio sample I provided or the example I gave with One More Chance?

Funny how when Kapital77 or Pentum post a clip all the doubters applaud, a believer posts a clip and makes a point and everyone suspiciously ignores it.

and maybe that's b/c u uploaded it to sendspace which requires multiple downloads . . . and i'm not ignoring the OMC example, i just don't agree with it at all so i have nothing to say. i think he sounds like mj throughout that entire song, including the ONE WORD (which i don't think it's fair to isolate like that) "mysteries"

and one more thing: @Kapital, you're so right about freidman, mmmmhmmmm. i'd like to add harvey levin w/ tmz into that pool too. Since when does tmz post personal opinions about anything? i've never seen them GUSH over anything as much as "michael". that was shady fer sure.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have a question, supposed Michael made a song, and it was released when he was still with us. Suppose this track consisted of the filtering of vocals from Why You Wanna Trip On Me, the autotune of Hold My Hand and Hollywood tonight, and the vocal processing and altering of 2000 Watts all in one. What do you guys think that would sound like?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

*facepalm* "at times they sound very malachi-like, but that doesn't mean it's him"???????

actually, that's exactly what that means. find an example of an existing michael jackson song where he sounds "very malachi-like" for even one second. you won't. because michael jackson always sounds like michael jackson. what. the. heck.

*facepalm* It can't be him that Confirmed by analysts/Estate..but you can believe what you want of course...

The executors gets $ based on how well MJ projects do..They would never commit fraud and risk it all, and we all know they wouldn't, same with Sony..I do feel they made a mistake by including these songs though and I truly hope they learned from this ordeal.. but I hope people zoom out and actually look different things here instead of the "It doesn't sound like that means it's an Imposter!" ..I feel people need to just think about these things more, I don't think there is any sort of fraud going on..Michael is on these songs, that's why they are on the album....All my opinion.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hope everyone's having a good one!

I also love that video. Michael was truly one of a kind. Such a magical soul, very precious!

I wonder what people think about the sound clip I posted above. I'd be interested if someone could find comparisons of Jason Malachi making those same sounds? Because those are obviously a part of the original acapella, not copy-and-paste jobs. Please let me know what you think!

And also check the 1:25 of One More Chance. "Help me make these mysterrries unfold..."

What is the sound Michael makes during "Mysteries"? Is it his voice shaking, a messup in the recording, what is it? And why wasn't it perfected by him? To me it has always sounded kind of awkward.

I can't hear the messup at all. I can't hear anything unusual in "help me make these mysterries unfold"... What's so awkward about it? I listened to the song with my Bose headphone.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and one more thing: @Kapital, you're so right about freidman, mmmmhmmmm. i'd like to add harvey levin w/ tmz into that pool too. Since when does tmz post personal opinions about anything? i've never seen them GUSH over anything as much as "michael". that was shady fer sure.

did you ever consider that perhaps they know more than us? I mean look to Teddy he is adamant that the vocals are Michael's and later he mentioned that he saw Cascio's proof (raw tracks, handwritten notes, cell phone messages etc). Friedman is the one who said that there was "work tapes". and yes Harvey Levin adamantly posted his personal opinion (plus he mentioned that he was called to a special listening session by the Estate). So again perhaps there's some sort of proof out there and these people know and have seen it and that's why they are so strongly supporting it. Just something to think about, huh?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

did you ever consider that perhaps they know more than us? I mean look to Teddy he is adamant that the vocals are Michael's and later he mentioned that he saw Cascio's proof (raw tracks, handwritten notes, cell phone messages etc). Friedman is the one who said that there was "work tapes". and yes Harvey Levin adamantly posted his personal opinion (plus he mentioned that he was called to a special listening session by the Estate). So again perhaps there's some sort of proof out there and these people know and have seen it and that's why they are so strongly supporting it. Just something to think about, huh?

One thing I don't understand. Why the Estate was willing to show proof to Roger Friedman and Harvey Levine; yet, so disinclinated to show proof to the fans?

Given Roger Friedman and Harvey Levine's track record, how can the Estate expect fans to believe in them? Unlike the autopsy report and the Estate's administrative report to the probate court, there are no actual documents fans can refer to. What Harvey said is simply his opinion. I don't trust him unless he's able to show actual proof.

Also, I find it ironic that the Estate would invite a tabloid head to a private listening session. Michael disliked tabloids so much.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Yelp Yoghurt" coming up. "Yelping" is something Jason does a lot in his songs. Guess what? Yeah.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@love is magical: Pentum and I both have heard it so it's there. I'm sure others have, too, I have noticed it since before this controversy.

Listen more closely, when he sings 'mysteries' it's quite messed up.


Anyway, I have worked on another audio clip with some trademark MJ sounds from the track Stay. Next I am doing Keep Your Head Up and Monster, then All I Need. I might do a couple different versions of each. Would have posted this hours ago but the forum was screwing up for me.

This next clip is a few samples from Stay where I feel like it's especially Michael on the track put next to slowed down versions of the same samples. I kept the pitch intact so it's the same from the album, but it's a lot slower so you can listen to the voice and decide.

Listen here:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/o14sae

And for those who didn't get to hear the clip of One More Chance:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f4l1lb (Help Me Make These Mysteries...)

Breaking News MJ sounds:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/g99xl6


More clips coming very soon!

To me it sounds like Michael Jackson is on these tracks but I am still open-minded and interested in your opinions.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Also, I find it ironic that the Estate would invite a tabloid head to a private listening session. Michael disliked tabloids so much.

Levin is a lawyer, a well established one at that (and he knows a lot of lawyers - including Branca and Weitzman). He did do celebrity justice and cover OJ case. TMZ also claims that Michael got along well with their photographers and reporters (their own staff have an interesting policy towards how they deal with celebrities). (I'm also not sure if they classify as a tabloid, they define themselves as celebrity news and seen as a news source even by the main stream media).

Regardless a recent list showed that TMZ is one of the top 10 sourced news organizations. It ranks with BBC, CNN, New York Times etc and it either passed NBC or CBS. So we can hate it all we want but if you want your story to reach more people (being sourced in more media) it's better to give it to TMZ then NBC /CBS. It's s simple reality.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The problem with MJ sound effects, they can be very easy to do, and impersonate. I can do some of Michael's effects and sound like him.

Lot's of today's singers like Usher, Ne-yo do use MJ trade-mark effects.

Out of all the Cascio tracks, if I had to pick one which sounded the most like Michael, it would have to be Stay.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ Yeah, Ivy I don't hear TMZ claiming anything super bizarre like MJ molested Bat Boy.

@Minimj: True, a lot of people can do a pretty good job. My point with the clips I'm posting is to hopefully point out the subtle differences between imitation and the real deal.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^^^

O yes, and I am happy you are doing it, because you are one of the only people who I have seen, to try and prove it is Michael, and I actually want to say Thank you for trying! :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Levin is a lawyer, a well established one at that. He did do celebrity justice and cover OJ case. TMZ also claims that Michael got along well with their photographers and reporters (their own staff have an interesting policy towards how they deal with celebrities)

Regardless a recent list showed that TMZ is one of the top 10 sourced news organizations. It ranks with BBC, CNN, New York Times etc and it either passed NBC or CBS. So we can hate it all we want but if you want your story to reach more people (being sourced in more media) it's better to give it to TMZ then NBC /CBS. It's simple reality.

Okay. I understand it's all business decision at the end of the day. No personal feeling involved.

As for TMZ's claims that Michael got along well with their photographers, the way I see it is that Michael would rather not dealing with their photographers. We all know Michael. He's kind hearted. Unlike other celebrities, he's never rude to anyone. Actually, if the reporters and photographers chanted "I love you" enough times, Michael would actually respond to them.

Back to TMZ's coverage on the album, why just Levine's opinion? Why there isn't any link to the "proof" he has seen? Any clips of the worktapes, any handwritten notes or cell phone message? The coverage from TMZ is bare minimal. TMZ is never afraid of showing anything related to Michael, from the autopsy report, to the Estate administrative report to Dr. Klein's interview, etc...

My point is why there isn't any tangible proof released/leaked? With all the non-Cascio tracks, they couldn't wait to show us the tiniest trace from Michael, from voice message to hand-written notes to Michael's conversation with Neff-U. But, absolutely nothing on the Cascio tracks. If they have proof, are they afraid that the proof is going to show how flimsy Michael's input really was?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

No problem :) Personally, I think that last clip I sample in Stay, the beginning of "Your fantasy" sounds so much exactly like MJ, I've never heard Jason sound like that.

When I slow it down you can hear that classic tone to MJ's voice just like in Invincible, in my opinion.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Dah", "ah", etc are irrelevant IMO. I can do these sounding very, very similar to MJ and so can many others like Minimj pointed out.

"Malachi, has a habit of doing a 'yelp' when singing certain words. They appear in his own music, and they appear in The Cascio songs".

Here is what the person means: (sorry if it plays to fast, try keeping up)

Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/pentum/yelping-yoghurt
Hulkshare: http://hulkshare.com/mzhys2v9fy05

AGAIN, we find stuff that is MORE similar to Jason than MJ in the Cascio songs. We got the snorks, we got the yelps, we got the falsetto.

I know nothing will change the believers minds anymore since they want "real evidence that can hold up to court (my ass)", but I'm just here offering similarities. I can't hear MJ's voice in any of the songs. Not at all. Doesn't matter which of the songs I'm playing, all I hear is Jason's voice.

No problem :) Personally, I think that last clip I sample in Stay, the beginning of "Your fantasy" sounds so much exactly like MJ, I've never heard Jason sound like that.
Check out my audio. You've never heard Jason sound like that? Well, there it is. I don't think I've ever heard MJ sound like that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ Yeah, Ivy I don't hear TMZ claiming anything super bizarre like MJ molested Bat Boy.

@Minimj: True, a lot of people can do a pretty good job. My point with the clips I'm posting is to hopefully point out the subtle differences between imitation and the real deal.

Yeah, but TMZ also reported Jason Pfeiffer was Michael's secret lover etc... TMZ is far from telling the truth. TMZ may not fabricate stories up. However, their reporting style is intrusive and disrespectful.

I'm not ignoring your attempts. Again, at work now. Can't listen to the clips until tonight.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ I'm not sure TMZ is ALWAYS accurate or not sensationalism a lot of the time but my point was it's to a higher standard than the tabloids you pick up where there's absolutely nothing true at all and it's all like "OPRAH DYING IN 2 DAYS FROM RARE DISEASE", "BAT BOY CONTAMINATES THE SKIES WITH HIS FARTS", "THE MONA LISA IS ALIVE AND GOING ON A RAMPAGE", etc.
 
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