Latest on MJJC

Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

drewhiggins said:
Speaking of a woman being the main point in the song, it sure sounds like a woman.
Click to expand...

Read the whole verse. It's not what she's doing. It's what other people are doing to her. Therefore "mama" isn't a(n attractive) woman as you're saying.

Otherwise she (not "mama") must be homosexual then. :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

'Mama say mama got you in a zigzag' is clearly a piss-take of 'Mama-say mama-sah ma-ma-coo-sah'. Just as 'they eat your soul like a vegetable' is a piss-take of 'you're a vegetable'.

Why anyone is bothering to justify this nonsense is beyond me. The lyrics are complete nonsense.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex:
I appreciate and respect your effort. You really are one patient soul.

The rest of you guys:
Also respect to you. You are amazingly funny.
Like so often: I'm laughing out loudly by reading your comments.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Mama say mama got you in a zigzag" hmmm what is the poet trying to say here...? This is deep my friends, very deep. I believe that this phrase, although I'm not capable of fully understanding it, summarises the very meaning of life itself...yeah. I think there are also references in the Bible, like for instance when Eva offered Adam the apple, it writes that "she got him in a zigzag and God was dissatisfied". What do you think jmoses? (lol)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"mama" is also an urban term used by women when referring to other women, such as friends or relatives.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks for the feedback MJJuniorSinceMW. Good to know you respect all with an opinion.

Hey, at least it wasn't as bad as being called an attention whore. The poster who wrote it happened to have that comment removed but I know I shouldn't have expected any less from whoever that person was. (and no, this wasn't a dig at you, MJJunior).

I've had enough for the night - it's 1am and I'm a bit tired so I'll catch you all tomorrow for the nightly hour of fun.


"Mama say mama got you in a zigzag" hmmm what is the poet trying to say here...? This is deep my friends, very deep. I believe that this phrase, although I'm not capable of fully understanding it, summarises the very meaning of life itself...yeah. I think there are also references in the Bible, like for instance when Eva offered Adam the apple, it writes that "she got him in a zigzag and God was dissatisfied". What do you think jmoses? (lol)
Click to expand...
Yeah and killing up the birds while Eva was at it. She's one hot mama.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
'Mama say mama got you in a zigzag' is clearly a piss-take of 'Mama-say mama-sah ma-ma-coo-sah'. Just as 'they eat your soul like a vegetable' is a piss-take of 'you're a vegetable'.
Click to expand...


Actually it's "ma-ma-se" and NOT "mama-say". ;)
Look at the copyright cases from that idiot that sued MJ for it (can't remember his name)

"they eat your soul" is the only thing that is sung by MJ (or your so-called impostor). "like a vegetable" has apparently been added by Teddy Riley and it makes no sense there other than being a reference to the Thriller album, it's sung by a background choir though, not by MJ (or your so-called impostor)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex said:
Actually it's "ma-ma-se" and NOT "mama-say". ;)
Look at the copyright cases from that idiot that sued MJ for it (can't remember his name)

"they eat your soul" is the only thing that is sung by MJ (or your so-called impostor). "like a vegetable" has apparently been added by Teddy Riley and it makes no sense there other than being a reference to the Thriller album, it's sung by a background choir though, not by MJ (or your so-called impostor)
Click to expand...

The person's name is Manu Dibango.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
"You're a monster!" You're an animal" (which is clearly calling names, no complaint whatsoever)
Click to expand...

How about "you are a freak", "freaky boy" etc used in Ghosts?
and isn't "monster" is used both for the person in the song and the media?

samhabib said:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain 'sucking up the air from the earth AND under me'. Air under me?
Click to expand...

Anna said:
Actually it's: "We're sucking up the air in the earth from under me."
Click to expand...

Air under me can be used when you are in a high elevation (such as mountain top, in an airplane etc) and have air above and under you.

I'll assume sucking the air would mean that you would fall. and it would make sense as in the previous line he's talking about "rising up" and "flying".

drewhiggins said:
If you're chasing someone, why not just go in a line rather than completely odd patterns of VVVVVVVV? When I'm chasing someone or gonna go after them I don't run from side to side - I go like every other person in the world - in a regular movement.
Click to expand...

actually running in zigzag pattern is recommended if someone has a gun and shooting at you - running in a straight line would make you an easier target.

So running zigzag isn't about running away faster, it's about not being a target.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't want to defend the Cascio tracks as I'm on the "doubters" side but I don't find this "zig-zag" phrase particularly weird. It's just a way of avoiding the paparazzis and their cameras, like that mentioned destroyer do zig-zags to avoid torpedos. You take sudden turns to lost the tail. No deeper meaning to it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
How about "you are a freak", "freaky boy" etc used in Ghosts?
and isn't "monster" is used both for the person in the song and the media?
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you. It is an awful insult. But that's the word that the press uses against Michael:

a freak, a weirdo, a w acko, etc.

Michael did not use the word against people or their profession. Look at the whole symbolic there. He's playing the maire, and looking into the mirror. Only this gesture actually is a reference to the Man In The Mirror:

"If you want to make a better place, take a look at yourself then make a change."

So if you call someone freak (like the media did it with Michael), Michael answers them "[how about taking a look into the mirror and see] who's freak now."

It is also a metaphor of Jesus's words when he said: "You see the sliver in your friend's eye, but you don't see the timber in your own eye."

In other words, "look into the mirror".

And finally, let's not forget that all this was a part of a scenario, not of song lyrics on an album.

So, Ivy, why are you defending those lyrics in the song Monster, when obviously they're quite plain compared to what Michael offered us?




ivy said:
Air under me can be used when you are in a high elevation (such as mountain top, in an airplane etc) and have air above and under you.

I'll assume sucking the air would mean that you would fall. and it would make sense as in the previous line he's talking about "rising up" and "flying".
Click to expand...

can be? assume? would mean? would make sense?

So in other words, you are actually not sure at all.


ivy said:
actually running in zigzag pattern is recommended if someone has a gun and shooting at you - running in a straight line would make you an easier target.

So running zigzag isn't about running away faster, it's about not being a target.
Click to expand...

And who's got a gun? Janie? Is she the mom in the song? :D
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex said:
Actually it's "ma-ma-se" and NOT "mama-say". ;)
Look at the copyright cases from that idiot that sued MJ for it (can't remember his name)

"they eat your soul" is the only thing that is sung by MJ (or your so-called impostor). "like a vegetable" has apparently been added by Teddy Riley and it makes no sense there other than being a reference to the Thriller album, it's sung by a background choir though, not by MJ (or your so-called impostor)
Click to expand...

Makes no sense? You can say that again. Surely Teddy was working from the extensive 'notes' that he claims Michael left?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So, Ivy, why are you defending those lyrics in the song Monster, when obviously they're quite plain compared to what Michael offered us?
Click to expand...

Isn't this a discussion thread? Aren't we trying to understand/ make sense of the lyrics? Where did I ever say anything in regards to how good or bad the lyrics are compared to other songs? Don't we have 2 other people credited for the lyrics?

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
So if you call someone freak (like the media did it with Michael), Michael answers them "[how about taking a look into the mirror and see] who's freak now."
Click to expand...

similar can be said for monster as well. Like I said the lyrics also call the person a monster. So why couldn't be like "you make me a monster but you are the monster".


can be? assume? would mean? would make sense?

So in other words, you are actually not sure at all.
Click to expand...

again aren't we trying to understand the lyrics?

(and I don't have to be sure as I'm not in the brain of MJ, Eddie or Porte. I write what I understand and that might be what they meant or I can be totally wrong. I'm not like some that claims to have all the answers or cannot be wrong.)

"air under" is used like I said for higher elevation situations. I haven't seen personally seen air being sucked under something, and I assumed that it would make it fall. If that's the case it would tie with the lyrics as he's talking about raising up and flying just prior.

This woman is trying to make a better life for herself but they are causing her to fall back down.


And who's got a gun? Janie? Is she the mom in the song? :D
Click to expand...

Willy said:
I don't want to defend the Cascio tracks as I'm on the "doubters" side but I don't find this "zig-zag" phrase particularly weird. It's just a way of avoiding the paparazzis and their cameras, like that mentioned destroyer do zig-zags to avoid torpedos. You take sudden turns to lost the tail. No deeper meaning to it.
Click to expand...

and that's what I meant. I took self defense class and they DO tell you to run in zigzag pattern in some instances.

so these people are following him and trying to get him (He's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast ) and he's trying to not become a target (got you in a zig zag) while escaping from them (you're running, And you're running just to escape it ).
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex said:
"they eat your soul" is the only thing that is sung by MJ (or your so-called impostor). "like a vegetable" has apparently been added by Teddy Riley and it makes no sense there other than being a reference to the Thriller album, it's sung by a background choir though, not by MJ (or your so-called impostor)
Click to expand...
Listen very, very closely to the demo version. Can you hear it far away in the background?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
So, Ivy, why are you defending those lyrics in the song Monster, when obviously they're quite plain compared to what Michael offered us?
Click to expand...

according to you. your opinion doesn't count more or less than mine e.g. don't you see the arrogance of your continuously repeated judging of these songs for the entire world?

:flowers:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Pentum said:
Listen very, very closely to the demo version. Can you hear it far away in the background?
Click to expand...

yeah, you can hear sth is mixed down in volume to the extent that you won't recognize it, I know that

it's not sung by MJ (or the so-called impostor), that's the point
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That it's true. Just wanted to point out that it's still there.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
Isn't this a discussion thread? Aren't we trying to understand/ make sense of the lyrics? Where did I ever say anything in regards to how good or bad the lyrics are compared to other songs? Don't we have 2 other people credited for the lyrics?



similar can be said for monster as well. Like I said the lyrics also call the person a monster. So why couldn't be like "you make me a monster but you are the monster".




again aren't we trying to understand the lyrics?

(and I don't have to be sure as I'm not in the brain of MJ, Eddie or Porte. I write what I understand and that might be what they meant or I can be totally wrong. I'm not like some that claims to have all the answers or cannot be wrong.)

"air under" is used like I said for higher elevation situations. I haven't seen personally seen air being sucked under something, and I assumed that it would make it fall. If that's the case it would tie with the lyrics as he's talking about raising up and flying just prior.

This woman is trying to make a better life for herself but they are causing her to fall back down.






and that's what I meant. I took self defense class and they DO tell you to run in zigzag pattern in some instances.

so these people are following him and trying to get him (He's coming at ya, coming at ya rather too fast ) and he's trying to not become a target (got you in a zig zag) while escaping from them (you're running, And you're running just to escape it ).
Click to expand...

The point is, even if I actually do not refer to the lyrics to determine if a song is genuine or fake, the weak lyrics just nurture the doubt.

If one day it has been unambiguously established that Michael had written or sung those lyrics, I'd be of course disappointed and naturally admit that I was wrong to doubt. Untill then, I must say that aside the voice, the lyrics aren't convincing as they are not quite profound.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Pentum said:
Listen very, very closely to the demo version. Can you hear it far away in the background?
Click to expand...

Oh yes. The demo of the demo!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Korgnex said:
according to you. your opinion doesn't count more or less than mine e.g. don't you see the arrogance of your continuously repeated judging of these songs for the entire world?

:flowers:
Click to expand...


Yes, according to me as a linguist.

Now if you go to the doctor and he tells you "according to me you have a flu", are you going to answer: "According to you. Your opinion doesn't count more or less than mine"??? Now who'd be arrogant there, you or the doctor?

In my expertise I can say "according to me" without being arrogant.

Now if I need a medical piece of advice or a legal piece of advice, I'd ask my doctor and trust him, as I'd trust Ivy for legal piece of advice even if our opinions differ on the Cascio vocals.

You know Korgnex, without being arrogant, people pay me for the "according to me" in my field.
 
In Germany we have a singer named Herbert Grönemeyer who has often written songs with a rather untypical structure, often omitting words, mental leaps between some sentences etc. The songs themselves aren't non-sense in any way, they are just unusual (and quite unique) at their best, they often deal with serious issues.
He isn't stupid, he's educated and these songs are his artistic expression.

Now, you want to tell me the lyrics of the Cascio songs are plain?

As a linguist you should know better about artistic expression. Music isn't like a written document.


You could however call them being plain if they would make no sense or would deal with nothing serious. Then they would be simply entertaining. But as you (should) know, that's not the case with the Cascio recordings.
 
Korgnex;3269426 said:
In Germany we have a singer named Herbert Grönemeyer who has often written songs with a rather untypical structure, often omitting words, mental leaps between some sentences etc. The songs themselves aren't non-sense in any way, they are just unusual (and quite unique) at their best, they often deal with serious issues.
He isn't stupid, he's educated and these songs are his artistic expression.
Click to expand...

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What are you talking about? I never said that that German artist is stupid. I never analysed his lyrics either! I never heard of him! So what does he have to do with the Cascio songs anyway??????????????

Korgnex;3269426 said:
Now, you want to tell me the lyrics of the Cascio songs are plain?
Click to expand...

Compared to other Michael's songs YES!

Compared to your German artist I have no slightest idea as I've never read his lyrics. Your comment is irrelevant and comparison misplaced.

Korgnex;3269426 said:
As a linguist you should know better about artistic expression. Music isn't like a written document.
Click to expand...

Are you blaming me for not having heard or read the lyrics of the German artist?

As far as the Cascio lyrics are concerned they are plain and have no originality whatsoever compared to other MJ's songs. Read SHOUT or DANGEROUS, those are quality lyrics!


Korgnex;3269426 said:
You could however call them being plain if they would make no sense or would deal with nothing serious. Then they would be simply entertaining. But as you (should) know, that's not the case with the Cascio recordings.
Click to expand...

Some of the phrases and expressions make no sense while other parts are purely pale attempts to ressemble Privacy, Why you wanna trip on me, Scream or Tabloid Junkie. What is original about them?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

A vocal track produced by Angelikson Productions - recorded November 2007.

http://snd.sc/ggfiV9
 
BUMPER SNIPPET;3269460 said:
Some of the phrases and expressions make no sense while other parts are purely pale attempts to ressemble Privacy, Why you wanna trip on me, Scream or Tabloid Junkie. What is original about them?
Click to expand...

You're just very subjective here.

When INVINCIBLE was released the same lack of inspiration has been claimed by many people INCLUDING fans.


My comparison to Herbert Grönemeyer was relevant. You don't have to know him. I was just pointing out that you're not criticizing the Cascio recordings as a linguist, you're criticizing them from the angle of a die-hard fan that doesn't want to respect the origin of the tracks.
 
Korgnex;3269488 said:
You're just very subjective here.

When INVINCIBLE was released the same lack of inspiration has been claimed by many people INCLUDING fans.


My comparison to Herbert Grönemeyer was relevant. You don't have to know him. I was just pointing out that you're not criticizing the Cascio recordings as a linguist, you're criticizing them from the angle of a die-hard fan that doesn't want to respect the origin of the tracks.
Click to expand...

You cannot drag my opinion into Herbert Grönmeyer's comparison with the Cascio lyrics. It's irrelevant as I even don't know him.

As far as subjectivity is concerned, I am not more subjective than all those who claim the contrary. So what's your point? Furthermore, you ask an opinion from a linguist. When you obtain it, you claim that his opinion is arrogant and not more valid than yours. Now you are lecturing me about subjectivity. Suit yourself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top