Michael - The Great Album Debate

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's often mentioned because many fans feel it has the most songs that - to quote you - "are simply not that exceptional".
For me these "not so exceptional" songs are: "You Are My Life", "Don't Walk Away" and "The Lost Children". Pretty much boring to ME (yeah, this is only MY personal feeling which means NOTHING in the end).

You Are My Life, Don't Walk Away and The Lost Children are not masterpieces. However, the songs are heartfelt and sincere. The lyrics are simple and to the point.

A song with good lyrics should not read like a puzzle. It shouldn't read like cryptic language that requires hours of study to decipher.

I'm not saying all lyrics should be as easy as 1-2-3. I enjoy metaphors as well. I like discover new meaning. However, the lyrics should still be simple enough for people to understand and sophisticated enough for people to discover the message.

The way you interpret Monster is trying quite hard. I don't hate the lyrics of KYHU; but, the lyrics are truly all over the place. The lyrics of these three Cascio songs are work-in-progress. Why can't you accept the fact that these songs are filler-tracks?

You may feel like fans are raising Michael to an unreachable level. I also feel like many here are trying to downplay his talents.

Michael Jackson was a great song-writer. It's true not every one of his songs are masterpiece. But, if he was given a chance to work on those songs, I can almost guarantee the songs would have turned out much better.

Why try so hard to praise some half-baked materials while they don't even measure up to the man's standard?

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's not my 'personal feeling'. And it's not 'subjective'.

'Killing up the life in the birds and the trees... sucking up the air from the earth and under me' - where do I begin? Grammatically pathetic and a complete abuse of the English language. 'Killing up'? Put that in a sentence one day and see what people say to you. 'Sucking up the air from the earth and under me'? What is he? Flying? In what realm of possibilities does that make sense? 'Sucking up the air from the EARTH and UNDER ME'? What air is under him???

WRONG!!! W-R-O-N-G! Wrong AGAIN Sam.


It is NOT: "Killing up the life in the birds and the trees".

It is: "(We're) killing up the live in the birds and the trees".

It is NOT: "Sucking up the air from the earth AND under me".

It is either: "(And we're) sucking up the air IN the earth from under me".
Meaning: We are taking the air out of the earth, so nothing can grow anymore. It is of course the earth underneath his feet. The earth on which he & we all are walking.

Or it is: "(And we're) sucking up the air AND the earth from under me".
Meaning: We're sucking up the air (from the atmosphere) and also out of the earth.
(Pollution theme: Clear as Hell!)


I put the "(We're)" & the "(And we're)" in brackets cause MJ swallows the words a bit, like he often does. The "(And we're)" is more 'visible' (sonically) though.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^could everyone be a little less sensitive please? :doh:

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

WRONG!!! W-R-O-N-G! Wrong AGAIN Sam.


It is NOT: "Killing up the life in the birds and the trees".

It is: "(We're) killing up the live in the birds and the trees".

It is NOT: "Sucking up the air from the earth AND under me".

It is either: "(And we're) sucking up the air IN the earth from under me".
Meaning: We are taking the air out of the earth, so nothing can grow anymore. It is of course the earth underneath his feet. The earth on which he & we all are walking.

Or it is: "(And we're) sucking up the air AND the earth from under me".
Meaning: We're sucking up the air (from the atmosphere) and also out of the earth.
(Pollution theme: Clear as Hell!)


I put the "(We're)" & the "(And we're)" in brackets cause MJ swallows the words a bit, like he often does. The "(And we're)" is more 'visible' (sonically) though.

And this was supposed to be a defence of the lyrics? Hahaha

"(We're) killing up the live in the birds and the trees" - WHAT DOES THAT even mean?!? That makes even less sense than what I posted! Hahahaha

 

[kreen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Chances are he also didn't sing any of this shit.

Please post any lyrics that are worse than 'Killing up the life in the birds and the trees... sucking up the air from the earth and under me

I know you're always so desperate to point to Michael's weak lyricism (completely baselessly) so this should be easy.

Yeah, no matter what lyric I point out, you'll say it's not as bad as the Cascio ones. It's all subjective anyway.

Also, I don't know about you, but I don't listen to MJ for the lyrics. He's not Leonard Cohen.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

WRONG!!! W-R-O-N-G! Wrong AGAIN Sam.


It is NOT: "Killing up the life in the birds and the trees".

It is: "(We're) killing up the live in the birds and the trees".

It is NOT: "Sucking up the air from the earth AND under me".

It is either: "(And we're) sucking up the air IN the earth from under me".
Meaning: We are taking the air out of the earth, so nothing can grow anymore. It is of course the earth underneath his feet. The earth on which he & we all are walking.

Or it is: "(And we're) sucking up the air AND the earth from under me".
Meaning: We're sucking up the air (from the atmosphere) and also out of the earth.
(Pollution theme: Clear as Hell!)


I put the "(We're)" & the "(And we're)" in brackets cause MJ swallows the words a bit, like he often does. The "(And we're)" is more 'visible' (sonically) though.

I totally understand what you just said. So, the song is both about sociology and ecology. One stone, two birds?

Why the song-writer switched from a woman's desperation to environmental concern? The woman's so desperate about her situation that how could she still think about the life of birds and trees?

 

[jmoses]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^^Could everyone be more respectful of other members' sensitivities, please?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, no matter what lyric I point out, you'll say it's not as bad as the Cascio ones. It's all subjective anyway.

Poor grammar isn't subjective. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? 'Killing up the life in the birds and the trees' is the most pathetically structured sentence I've ever read.

Also, I don't know about you, but I don't listen to MJ for the lyrics.

That's pretty clear.

He's not Leonard Cohen.

Thankfully.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, no matter what lyric I point out, you'll say it's not as bad as the Cascio ones. It's all subjective anyway.

Also, I don't know about you, but I don't listen to MJ for the lyrics. He's not Leonard Cohen.

Please, I beg you. May I ask you to start listen to Michael's lyrics? He may not be your ideal lyricist. But, he's not a "run-of-the-mill" pop singer.

It may enhance your enjoyment to Michael's music if you start appreciating his song-writing ability.

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That's enough. Tone down the arguing or the the thread will be closed.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And this was supposed to be a defence of the lyrics? Hahaha

"(We're) killing up the live in the birds and the trees" - WHAT DOES THAT even mean?!? That makes even less sense than what I posted! Hahahaha

Do you play dumb?

Killing up a life out of a tree. Taken his life out of him, piece by piece.

It means: We are taking the lives out of birds & trees.

"Killing up the life"

like

"Fucking up the play" (in sports)

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ The song is about a model/pin-up girl making a steep career which catapults her up to Hollywood. It's also criticizing the downfall of your personality as the career is taking over your life, the restless paparazzi and that it's common in that game that people managing you aren't good for you, they're only wanting you to continue working. They're not treating you like a person, they're "monsters", they're like animals because they are pushing on you.

The song isn't just about paparazzi. It's far more.

Something's wrong with the lyrics. Either he insulted the papparazzi (which he never did before) or he loved them.

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Something's wrong with the lyrics. Either he insulted the papparazzi (which he never did before) or he loved them.

...

Haha (looking at the pictures)... I think I'll die laughing in this thread

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

No, it's a good point. KYHU is so fragmented lyrically. First it's about a woman, then it's about ecology, then it's about love.

Have you heard already that this songs were not finished?

Could it be that the first verse is about a struggling women?

And the second verse about environmental problems?

Maybe also the final version of the song would have had only one theme.


Another thing: If these lyrics are so obviously poor, why didn't they bother to record better ones with their 'fakeMJ'?

Oh of course, i forgot, they assumed that MJ-fans wouldn't be so smart as 'sam & love is'.
They thought we wouldn't have a clue...Of course!

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Have you heard already that this songs were not finished?

Could it be that the first verse is about a struggling women?

And the second verse about environmental problems?

Maybe also the final version of the song would have had only one theme.


Another thing: If these lyrics are so obviously poor, why didn't they bother to record better ones with their 'fakeMJ'?

Oh of course, i forgot, they assumed that MJ-fans wouldn't be so smart as 'sam & love is'.
They thought we wouldn't have a clue...Of course!

If the first verse is about a struggling woman, and the second about environmental problems, I believe it's safe to say that the song is actually all over the place and can be considered poor songwriting. That's what we're trying to say.

Again, personal attacks. Why the need for it?

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Do you play dumb?

Killing up a life out of a tree. Taken his life out of him, piece by piece.

It means: We are taking the lives out of birds & trees.

"Killing up the life"

like

"Fucking up the play" (in sports)

Sorry, but that's really funny. :lmao: "Killing up" makes no sense.
"Fucked up" does. It means broken, messed with, or in a bad state. You can't compare the two.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Have you heard already that this songs were not finished?

But some 'believers' were claiming that these 'unfinished' lyrics were better than Michael's own 'finished' lyrics. That's the issue here.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

One day I'd like to.

I'm not homeless, but I care about the way they are treated, because one day I may end up there. Wanting better is noble, regardless of whether one has invested interest.

...It doesn't mean I'm part of some cooky homeless conspiracy.

what do you feel about the way I've just been treated?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

what do you feel about the way I've just been treated?

When people run out of arguments they attack personally. It's lame, so don't bother discussing with them. There are still some people who discuss without insulting, such as Ivy or Aniram.

 

[Dorian]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When people run out of arguments they attack personally. It's lame, so don't bother discussing with them. There are still some people who discuss without insulting, such as Ivy or Aniram.

Lol @ your mood:rofl:

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Something's wrong with the lyrics. Either he insulted the papparazzi (which he never did before) or he loved them.

I wanna be the kaola he's hugging. I'm jealous!!! :wub::wub::wub:

btw, miss you much bumper, where've you been?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I wanna be the kaola he's hugging. I'm jealous!!! :wub::wub::wub:

btw, miss you much bumper, where've you been?

Eating some pasta with smoked salmon and green pesto on the one hand, and on the other, I was in a zig zag whatever that may mean.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Eating some pasta with smoked salmon and green pesto on the one hand, and on the other, I was in a zig zag whatever that may mean.

yeah... quite a zig zag here (whatever it means)....

pasta with pesto sauce... yummie... :hungry:

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

P.S. though I agree with you, it's a horrible nightmare . I wish all Michael (album) CDs could be destroyed like counterfeit copies and a new charge with BG, DYKWYCA and STTR on it instead would be produced... and all profits would go to charity.

awww, that would be nice.

why is worldwide still on this thread if he's admitted to being the hacker? did the mods just overlook that? i don' thtink pompous git would have made that up, isn't he one of the founders over at maxjax?

the lyrics on kyhu are weak. that's not subjective in any way shape or form. Sam made his point quite clearly, it's a shame it was taken the wrong way. Taste and quality are NOT the same thing. I love some things that i know are bad quality and i hate some things that i recognize as good quality. I was watching american idol the other day, heard someone that was clearly a great singer, but didn't like them b/c I am not a fan of country music. i just don't like it. doesn't mean that contestant wasn't talented. two. different. things. quality = measurable, taste = subjective.

I am so sick of coming onto an mj fan forum and seeing people insult mj's actual, verified work. earth song is not cheesy. fact. and why in god's name is someone who thinks mj is a "run of the mill pop singer" even on this forum? hmm? why do you think? in fact, i've never even heard a hater or a non-fan call mj "run of the mill." red flag.

Nope. You're raising him on an unreachable throne that can't be reached by any human being. And in the end, Michael Jackson has always been a human being, not a God-like figure with pure perfection.

Some fans are really fanatics (that's what the word "fan" actually comes from), others aren't.

Accept things you don't like. I'm sure you had a hard time accepting other flaws of MJ in the past. I don't have to name them, you know what happened.

No offense intended.

and THIS is exactly what i was referring to in the post that AnnieRuok got offended by. a portion of the believers seem to think that the cascio tracks are legit because mj made mistakes and wasn't perfect. we are NOT raising mj to an unreachable throne. what we're saying is that he'd never sing "mama got you in a zigzag" or sound like a 3rd-class version of himself. and ya, i do put mj on a pedestal. because that's where he belongs.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and ya, i do put mj on a pedestal. because that's where he belongs.

Great post! I just wanted to point out this particular part

:clapping: VERY well said!

 

[jmoses]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If you think it's so unpleasant, then leave. You're not a moderator, so if you have a problem, report it.

I did, and I will continue to.

It's not worth arguing anymore. i made my point.

...but one day I hope I won't have to leave, like other members have, due to the issues in this thread. It could be great. Sadly, it's not. We're all losing out because of a select few.

If my comments to Samhabib didn't change anything, hopefully the mods will have better luck.

...until then, the unpleasantness remains.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I am not defending Worldwide, because he was very rude to me, but what does a Muslim name or being a muslim have to do with any of the things he did?

I think it was in order to identify him, not for any other reason.

 

[Worldwide]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yes, I'd also like to know why 'Worldwide' is still around? Why hasn't this been dealt with yet?

Why ban me for something not related to this site? Keep on topic please

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Now, let's get back on topic. Try it, you may be surprised at how civil the conversations can actually be, and what you may learn.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Okay... I'm just going to gently nudge this topic (in a zigzag pattern), back to its proper course. So yeah, today I was listening to KYHU and I was like, "Say whaaaat?!"








There we go. :cheeky: