Michael - The Great Album Debate

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Nice to be reminded of those quotes Pentum.
Good to remind oneself too that most of the people on the Weizman statement 'list' that apparently agree the vocals were authentic have never said so publically and all we have is Weizman's word for it. Who knows what they really thought or said. Also they were all on the payroll/involved some way in the album or had personal connections to people that really needed the tracks to be authentic in order not to get sued.
As for why i care. Well it's an insult and a betrayal to Michael and his fans for starters. Also i am not a fool and i do not like when i am treated like one. The Estate made patronising claims about how great MJ fans are always searching for the truth blah blah. They said they valued our opinions and that they would keep us posted. Yeah right! Basically it is just wrong. Simple as that. It is wrong.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Bumper, not to speak for you, but I'd imagine the fans in your position are concerned about Michael's legacy and that these tracks could harm it.

@MJUltimateMusicLegen, could you explain that a bit more, please?

I didn't mean it literally i just mean he isn't motive free and money or pressure can also silence anyone. I go with my own ears, i want them to be Michael, but not enough to go against my own ears.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ah, OK then. Thanks anyway

We really need something from the Estate and/or Cascios. They should release a snippet of the original, unedited recordings!

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

We really need something from the Estate and/or Cascios. They should release a snippet of the original, unedited recordings!

They were erased off the computer.


*Shrugs*

 

[Alec]

Ah, OK then. Thanks anyway

We really need something from the Estate and/or Cascios. They should release a snippet of the original, unedited recordings!

They couldn't provide them to Taryll and they won't now... because no outtakes exist, no unedited recordings exist.

"I questioned the validity of the vocals on "Breaking News" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. [...] No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed."

~Taryll Jackson

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

They couldn't provide them to Taryll and they won't now... because no outtakes exist, no unedited recordings exist.

"I questioned the validity of the vocals on "Breaking News" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. [...] No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed."

~Taryll Jackson

Of course all these excuses are completely "normal".

 

[ivy]

"I have read the statement from the MJ estate and I have to say that it's just more bullshit! I was in that room, and the majority of the people mentioned did NOT agree that it was MJ! Some felt it sounded like him but all agree that there was nothing there that was consistent with any MJ habits like finger snaps, headphone bleeding, foot stomping or just simple things like his voice asking for another take. Both Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley sat with Taryll Jackson and myself and stated that they felt what we felt. As for the specialists that were brought in, I don't think anyone from the actual Jackson family got any direct confirmation that made them feel any different then what they have felt all along."

— Cory Rooney, producer

The problem here is these people are all very connected. It's hard to see them as "independent sources". Rooney is the weakest link IMO.

Rooney who was against MJ in 2002 and supporting Sony, has been working with Taryll for a long time on many projects , plus he and Taryll has a song (She was loving me) that didn't make the cut.

how's that for a motive?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The problem here is these people are all very connected. It's hard to see them as "independent sources".

Rooney who was against MJ in 2002 and supporting Sony, has been working with Taryll for a long time on many projects , plus he and Taryll has a song (She was loving me) that didn't make the cut.

how's that for a motive?

And how about the fact that Branca was fired by Michael?

 

[Anna]

They couldn't provide them to Taryll and they won't now... because no outtakes exist, no unedited recordings exist.

"I questioned the validity of the vocals on "Breaking News" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. [...] No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed."

~Taryll Jackson

If that's true, that is really, really dodgy.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And how about the fact that Branca was fired by Michael?

I'll assume you are mentioning 2003?

then rehired a few months later (there are legal documents to prove this), left in 2006 , rehired in 2009.

apparently Michael wasn't against working with him, otherwise why would he keep rehiring him? (and keep him as an executor).

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

They couldn't provide them to Taryll and they won't now... because no outtakes exist, no unedited recordings exist.

"I questioned the validity of the vocals on "Breaking News" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. [...] No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed."

~Taryll Jackson

So happy with his worst ever vocal performance, what bullshit! the man wasn't happy with motown 25 in later years even with the final mix of Billie Jean, so that is rubbish.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

you see, the problem with this discussion is that a lot of people did not follow it from the beginning (i.e. those, who are surprised by these quotes and didn't know them before).
A lot of strong points have been made since November and missed by the people who think the vocal tracks are real and are discussing them here now.

 

[Arklove]

They couldn't provide them to Taryll and they won't now... because no outtakes exist, no unedited recordings exist.

"I questioned the validity of the vocals on "Breaking News" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. [...] No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed."

~Taryll Jackson

stuff like this....come on....even if these songs WERE Michael, and Michael really was SO happy with the songs, he'd never instruct to have everything deleted....the man saved everything...and I STRONGLY believe he would never be 'happy' with these songs....they weren't even anything to be over the moon happy about! they weren't FINISHED...!

theoretically speaking that they are him, of course

so, either way, it makes no sense, and just exposes even more deception...

More bullshit...

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The songs are not him and I can't wait for the truth to come out so everyone wll know and Sony will pay. I strongly believe it will one day.

Night.

 

[bluesky]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And how about the fact that Branca was fired by Michael?

I see people mentioned Branca, how about McClain?

Is he clear in all this? (being an executor and music producer?)

Somebody mentioned on twitter there is an issue of "conflict of interest".

Ivy, can you comment about this? I 've been wondered about this.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If the vocals aren't MJ's, then I WILL sell everything I have that is MJ-related and renounce my fandom out of shame.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'll assume you are mentioning 2003?

then rehired a few months later (there are legal documents to prove this), left in 2006 , rehired in 2009.

apparently Michael wasn't against working with him, otherwise why would he keep rehiring him? (and keep him as an executor).

[youtube]SO8PUNcNVhQ&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

stuff like this....come on....even if these songs WERE Michael, and Michael really was SO happy with the songs, he'd never instruct to have everything deleted....the man saved everything...and I STRONGLY believe he would never be 'happy' with these songs....they weren't even anything to be over the moon happy about! they weren't FINISHED...!

theoretically speaking that they are him, of course

so, either way, it makes no sense, and just goes to show even more deception...

More bullshit...

What a paradox! On the one hand believers claim that the vocals are in a demo state and on the other hand they find it perfectly normal and acceptable that Michael supposedly said to destroy everything.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

what a paradox! On the one hand believers claim that the vocals are in a demo state and on the other hand they find it perfectly normal and acceptable that michael supposedly said to destroy everything.

ah ha!

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What a paradox! On the one hand believers claim that the vocals are in a demo state and on the other hand they find it perfectly normal and acceptable that Michael supposedly said to destroy everything.

I don't find it normal. I find it ridiculous.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't find it normal. I find it ridiculous.

Well, now you know why some of us are not happy about the Cascio tracks. We have no interest, but we trust our ears. And also our eyes. We see no evidence whatsoever, just excuses.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If that's true, that is really, really dodgy.

Jeez, ya think??

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If the vocals aren't MJ's, then I WILL sell everything I have that is MJ-related and renounce my fandom out of shame.

Hopefully your not serious, if it was us who were proven right, you should just appologise and vice versa, but no one should ever renounce being a fan

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'll assume you are mentioning 2003?

then rehired a few months later (there are legal documents to prove this), left in 2006 , rehired in 2009.

apparently Michael wasn't against working with him, otherwise why would he keep rehiring him? (and keep him as an executor).

Have you got any proof that he was rehired by Michael Jackson post-2003?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Jesta,

You should neither apologize nor give up all the things you possess. If there is a machinery behind all this we should find the way to find out the truth. It is not MJ's fault if some people are trying to take advantage of him. We are here to defend him, not to turn our backs on him, like many did.

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jeez, ya think??

You know, it wouldn't kill you to be a bit more respectful to fellow members. I've never seen a post from you that wasn't derogatory or rude in some way. Chill.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm not that good at acknowledging when I'm wrong, I'm too stubborn for that, as my friends love to say. But I have been backing these songs up since day 1, so if evidence comes along that says that all of my time and energy was for naught, then I clearly would have failed Michael.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Have you got any proof that he was rehired by Michael Jackson post-2003?

Well, the proof is that Branca did not return the originals. Branca should have never possessed Michael's will.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You know, it wouldn't kill you to be a bit more respectful to fellow members. I've never seen a post from you that wasn't derogatory or rude in some way. Chill.

How was that rude? I was sharing your sentiment. That the excuses are so ridiculous that they're completely unbelievable. That wasn't aimed at you - it was agreeing with you.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm not that good at acknowledging when I'm wrong, I'm too stubborn for that, as my friends love to say. But I have been backing these songs up since day 1, so if evidence comes along that says that all of my time and energy was for naught, then I clearly would have failed Michael.

Don't worry. Nobody is going to judge you. And even if some people do judge, what do you care? Anyone can make a mistake, it's human nature.