Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm not that good at acknowledging when I'm wrong, I'm too stubborn for that, as my friends love to say. But I have been backing these songs up since day 1, so if evidence comes along that says that all of my time and energy was for naught, then I clearly would have failed Michael.

True. If and when it gets 'proven' that it's not Michael Jackson on these records I have no idea how the fans who believed them to be Michael Jackson records would be able to come to terms with that. If people can't recognise Michael Jackson's voice than why would they claim to be a fan?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

True. If and when it gets 'proven' that it's not Michael Jackson on these records I have no idea how the fans who believed them to be Michael Jackson records would be able to come to terms with that. If people can't recognise Michael Jackson's voice than why would they claim to be a fan?

Well, to be fair...maybe it's not a question of 'fandom'....but how familiar they are with his voice, how CAREFULLY they listen to every little bit...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You're right. I wouldn't be able to come to terms with that, which is why I would renounce my fandom out of shame and failure.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You're right. I wouldn't be able to come to terms with that, which is why I would renounce my fandom out of shame and failure.

When you really love something/someone you can't opt simply to abandon. It is not a choice, it is your inner truth. You either like or dislike, you can't command to like or dislike something.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

(... Try telling that to "Alex/Susie"...)

You're right, I know but samhabib has made a big point. I wouldn't be able to face myself if I found out that songs that I really love and have been completely defending for months turned out to be giant lies. I would've failed the person I owe my current life to, and the thought of that frightens me.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

(... Try telling that to "Alex/Susie"...)

You're right, I know but samhabib has made a big point. I wouldn't be able to face myself if I found out that songs that I really love and have been completely defending for months turned out to be giant lies. I would've failed the person I owe my current life to, and the thought of that frightens me.

Young man, you shouldn't be impressed by anyone. Stand up!

Know one thing, whatever you did regarding the Cascio tracks, you didn't do it out of disrespect for Michael or out of greed or out of any other bad intention. So stop blaming yourself because someone duped you. What should 50 cent do? Shoot himself?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

(... Try telling that to "Alex/Susie"...)

You're right, I know but samhabib has made a big point. I wouldn't be able to face myself if I found out that songs that I really love and have been completely defending for months turned out to be giant lies. I would've failed the person I owe my current life to, and the thought of that frightens me.

You know....some of us may come off as harsh in here.....But we're all so very passionate about the same man....For the doubters, it's a matter of bringing some awareness.....There have been people who have realized the fraud based on the debate going on in here.....We just want to set things right and expose these songs for what they really are...

No matter what, I believe we all build a very strong support system...We'll always be here for each other....We had to have all learned a little something from Michael :heart:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@JESTA, HERE, WATCH THIS, YOU'LL LIKE IT!

[youtube]EI8RTbJLTbY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

... I guess you're right. I'll try not to blame myself, but it doesn't come easy. "Alex/Susie" had a bad habit of making me believe everything was always my fault, so it's kinda hard to forget things like that. That being said, I'll only believe they're fake when indisputable evidence arises... All I want is the truth now, evidence that cements that one side is right.

EDIT: Thanks Bumper, that made me smile :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Young man, you shouldn't be impressed by anyone. Stand up!

Know one thing, whatever you did regarding the Cascio tracks, you didn't do it out of disrespect for Michael or out of greed or out of any other bad intention. So stop blaming yourself because someone duped you. What should 50 cent do? Shoot himself?

Exactly. The people involved in this scam will be the ones running for cover. It's completely disgusting what they've done, trading in on the good nature of Michael Jackson fans who were willing to accept all of the 'reasons' as to why Michael Jackson didn't sound like Michael Jackson.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

... I guess you're right. I'll try not to blame myself, but it doesn't come easy. "Alex/Susie" had a bad habit of making me believe everything was always my fault, so it's kinda hard to forget things like that. That being said, I'll only believe they're fake when indisputable evidence arises... All I want is the truth now, evidence that cements that one side is right.

EDIT: Thanks Bumper, that made me smile :)
Whoever orchestrated this whole thing knew they would fool a lot of MJ's diehard fans. They'd have to, to pull it off. So you have nothing to be ashamed of. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. Everyone hears things differently and are influenced by different factors and opinions.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To turn a Michael Jackson demo into a Cascio sounding track you DON'T need a low quality, poorly recorded audio track. Simply put, MJ sounded like MJ at all times. A low quality recording wouldn't change the sound of the voice, only the clarity to hear it. MJ would not need to be in the same conditions as "MJ" on the Cascio tracks because the core voice would still be the same. For example, comparing the shower theory to any other MJ demo would be perfectly plausible as being in the shower doesn't change your voice, only the atmosphere around it.

Comparing "Michael Jackson" to Jason Malachi can be done with simple video edits, comparing "Michael Jackson" to Michael Jackson can be done with simple video edits.

It's not difficult, there is clearly two distinguishable voices between Michael Jackson and "Michael Jackson", so much so that precision concerning location/style of recording really don't need to be taken into account.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Oh, and Eddie can't get his story straight. First, they were in the basement with Michael recording and Eddie pushing buttons. Then, Michael was in the shower?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Oh, and Eddie can't get his story straight. First, they were in the basement with Michael recording and Eddie pushing buttons. Then, Michael was in the shower?

Yes, the 'hot' and 'cold' buttons....He did what he had to do and got the job done ;)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"No Eddie, don't push the button!"

... That was a Dexter's Lab reference...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And also musicologist and musician, AND HUGE Michael Jackson fan, Questlove Thompson's take on events:

"I'm not about to RT his entire lifeline but @randyjackson8 is a necessary read concerning mj."

"I knew that wasn't him."

But then, maybe he had some sort of motive to lie, too, just like Taryll?!? Maybe he's got his own 'vault' of MJ classics that didn't make the cut!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

'Sony has 250 mil reasons to convince the public that it is his voice, if you know what I mean'

This one always sums it all up...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

He did what he had to do and got the job done ;)

He actually said these words, right? What a completely bizarre way to describe producing a record... sounds more like someone who has just come to the aid of someone involved in an accident, "I did what he had to do."

I wouldn't trust the Cascio's to tell me the time.
 
Quotes

"How can you release a record without Michael Jackson? It's not Michael Jackson. I heard the song that's on the Internet now ['Breaking News'] and I'm like, 'That ain't Mike.'"
— Will.I.Am, Black Eyed Peas, Michael Jackson's producer​
"I remember when Teddy and I were at Encore listening to Keep Your Head Up. We both knew it wasn't my Uncle."
"Out of the 10 songs listed, only 7 of them are Michael Jackson."
"I've always admired the talent of Teddy Riley, but after hearing him lie on Oprah I am terribly disappointed."
— Taryll Jackson, Michael Jackson's nephew​
"Some of the songs are him, and some aren't. I would bet my life on that."
"And as to the vocal authenticators, they work for pay. And I wasn't there when they did their analysis."
"Like I said, Sony and the executors have 250 million reasons to influence the public."
— Randy Jackson, Michael Jackson's brother​
"I have read the statement from the MJ estate and I have to say that it's just more bullshit! I was in that room, and the majority of the people mentioned did NOT agree that it was MJ! Some felt it sounded like him but all agree that there was nothing there that was consistent with any MJ habits like finger snaps, headphone bleeding, foot stomping or just simple things like his voice asking for another take. Both Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley sat with Taryll Jackson and myself and stated that they felt what we felt. As for the specialists that were brought in, I don't think anyone from the actual Jackson family got any direct confirmation that made them feel any different then what they have felt all along."
— Cory Rooney, producer​
"It seems like everybody is trying to put everything out that they can with him. I don't understand it. It's all to make money. He wouldn't have wanted it to come out this way. They must just be trying to make as much money as they can. I don't know why else they are doing it."
— Quincy Jones, producer of Michael Jackson's
"Off the Wall", "Thriller", and "Bad" albums​
The last word

"Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons."
— Michael Jackson​
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That isn't what Will.I.Am meant, if you read the whole interview and not just extract what you want from it, it's obvious what he meant.

But of course, you'll interpret it however you like, as long as it benefits your claim.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

He actually said these words, right? What a completely bizarre way to describe producing a record... sounds more like someone who has just come to the aid of someone involved in an accident, "I did what he had to do."

I wouldn't trust the Cascio's to tell me the time.

Yes, he did actually say that...

...Very bizarre...bizarre and vague....Both ways I'd describe his behaviour throughout this whole ordeal..
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Too bad that isn't what Will.I.Am meant, if you read the whole interview and not just extract what you want from it, it's obvious what he meant.

That's probably as much as he could have said without having to deal with litigation. But when an industry player says 'that ain't Mike' while referring to a track that has received international condemnation with doubts surrounding it's legitimacy, it's preeeeeetty safe to say he's getting a message out, one way or another.

Also love SUPERFAN Ne-yo's comments: ""I'm gonna stick to my old Mike"

You do that Ne-yo... because the 'new' Mike sounds NOTHING like the 'old Mike'.

Interesting that such huge Michael Jackson fans would roundly criticise this abomination.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But of course, you'll interpret it however you like, as long as it benefits your claim.

His answer is staring at you right in the face, but like the rest of the issues with the tracks, you ignore the obvious...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"And no one can really do his scream" Teddy Riley
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Have you got any proof that he was rehired by Michael Jackson post-2003?

Well, the proof is that Branca did not return the originals. Branca should have never possessed Michael's will.

Famous February 2003 firing letter of Branca

http://www.scribd.com/doc/43788480/You-Re-Fired

In case you didn't know famous Interfor investigation was finished in April 2003.

Not so famous July 2003 letter of Branca to Koppelman in which he is raising his concerns about the proposed refinancing deal

The first point is making sure that Michael keeps his ownership over the catalogs. Yes "evil" Branca is against Michael giving up his publishing rights

http://www.scribd.com/doc/43789064/Branca-s-Secret-Letter

It shows that Branca was back working for Michael unless you want to claim the evil Branca that Michael fired was sending letter on his own to protect Michael. Even if that's your agreement it only shows Branca to be a friend of Michael even though he was fired.

For the rest I'll copy and paste from mjandjustice4some blog


Here are the highlights of Branca's employment with MJ from 2003-2006:

-- After the investigation, Michael must have realized that John Branca did not embezzle any money, because in November of 2003, Branca was once again Michael Jackson's attorney. In November of 2003, Neverland was raided by the Santa Barbara Police Department. On November 19, 2003 a New York Times article regarding the raid stated that "John Branca, Mr. Jackson's lawyer, did not return a phone call seeking comment."


~In late 2003, CBS would not air the special "Michael Jackson's Number Ones" until Michael publicly denied the child molestation allegations against him. Michael did an interview with Ed Bradley on 60 minutes, and Branca is credited for negotiating that deal. Source is here. If you don't believe the Daily News, here is a source from MTV News that states, "though some sources say that (Leonard) Muhammad was involved in brokering the '60 minutes' interview, lawyer John Branca and former EMI executive Charles Koppelman negotiated the CBS interview in exchange for the network putting Jackson's 'Michael Jackson's Number Ones' back on its programming schedule." Source is here.

~In January, 2004, there are numerous reports that Michael Jackson's advisors met together at the Beverly Hills Hotel to strategize their next move prior to Jackson's arraignment hearing. The picture above is from one of the articles, from NBC Miami website. USA Today reported that although Michael "was nowhere to be seen, the entertainer had been on a conference call with his advisers at that time. Source is here. This same article reported that despite the rumors, "John Branca, one of the singer's business attorneys, stated 'Michael is in charge.'"

Koppelman.bmp


Branca is sitting on the left, Koppelman and Geragos is present as well.


In April, 2004, the Los Angeles Times wrote an article which I could only access when I paid for it. However, this article was written when Michael was gearing up for the trial. Many were counting on the downfall of Michael Jackson, as most of us realize now. Yet, the LA Times states that "Jackson's longtime attorney, John Branca says it would be a mistake to count him out. Michael was counted out once before, when the Jackson Five lost popularity and came back bigger than ever, Branca said. Michael speaks to a worldwide audience like no other artist in history."

-- A Times Online article maintains that Branca was advising Michael Jackson in early June of 2005 regarding the ATV catalog. The article states that Michael "is being advised in the matter by John Branca, a well-known music industry lawyer, and Charles Koppelman..."

--Branca states that by 2006, Michael was listening to an increasingly odd set of advisers who Branca feared did not have the singer's best interests at heart. "He was surrounded and I had to resign. He (Jackson) did not ask me to stay. I resigned amicably." In 2006, after MJ fired other attorneys, reporters contacted Branca, and he maintained that he had left MJ's employ in april of 2006.

-- and even if you don't find Branca credible, go and read Joe Jackson lawsuit about removing Branca as an executor in which his attorney Brian Oxman freely admitted Branca worked for Jackson until 2006.

-- and his 2009 rehiring letter is filed with the probate court.

In short you can see that he was fired but rehired in 2003 and worked with Michael till 2006 (as Joe Jackson also agrees with this). And came back a short time before MJ's death.

------ and why are we even discussing Branca on this thread? ------
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"And no one can really do his scream" Teddy Riley

Oh, the copy and pasted ad libs from OLDER legit MJ songs? Then yes, you're right Teddy ;)
 
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