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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
Those people were good friends to MJ. Why would all of them suddenly turn around and betray him, when their job is protecting his legacy? Would you betray MJ if you were his friend? Claiming that all of them did, is a very harsh thing to assume. Are they complete idiots? I don't think so.
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The Chandlers were good friends of MJ's. As were the Arvizos. Did he think they would betray him?

Explain why MJ's other good friends - Cory Rooney, Rodney Jerkins, the Jackson family members who have spoken about the songs - have claimed the vocals are bogus?

Would I have registered dubious songs in Michael's name two days after he died? No. I wouldn't have. But it's funny what people do for money, right? "Anything". As a great man once said.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Has Rodney Jerkins outright said that the vocals on the Cascio tracks were indisputably fake. Plus, would you want your tracks that were sung by MJ suddenly seized by people that you didn't think had MJ's best interests. They probably did it because of MJ's fear that people would kill him for his catalogue. This was their way of assuring that their songs weren't seized without question.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

True Sam, They were in awful hurry to register these bad quality rough guide vocals that nobody knew existed. They were really thinking about Michael's legacy and integrity when they did that i'm sure.....
Jesta-How would anyone 'seize' their tracks if nobody knew they existed?
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
If there was no other good place to record vocals, I'd imagine Michael would. After all, he just loved to record music, I'm sure he wasn't fussed about recorded if it was just guide vocals and not something that would appear on an album so it would have to be perfect.
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The information that we are getting is quite contradicting, at least to me. All along, we are told the quality of the recording is bad because the recording is guide vocals/demos. Then, why did they want the special sound effect from the bathroom on a guide vocals tape?

I can't help but think about the demo of Fall Again - a one take demo. Fall Again is a song written by other. Michael recorded the song once. He mumbled some lyrics. He might not remember all the lyrics, or he didn't like the lyrics or the lyrics were incomplete. The interesting thing is Michael's voice is pristine in that demo. I guess I can also call Fall Again "guide vocals" as well. Why such a big contrast in quality between the guide vocals of Fall Again and the guide vocals of Monster?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The way I see it, the shower was the only convenient and appropriate place to record the vocals. The effect of the environment didn't matter because it was guide vocals. Plus, we don't know how much editing went into the vocals, there could've been much more vocals, with mumbled parts, kinda like how there was originally more to "Hollywood Tonight" (hence why we don't hear the "vegetable" line).
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
The Chandlers were good friends of MJ's. As were the Arvizos. Did he think they would betray him?

Explain why MJ's other good friends - Cory Rooney, Rodney Jerkins, the Jackson family members who have spoken about the songs - have claimed the vocals are bogus?

Would I have registered dubious songs in Michael's name two days after he died? No. I wouldn't have. But it's funny what people do for money, right? "Anything". As a great man once said.
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If they were fake, they could probably prove it with audio tests and challenge the album's authenticity in court. They have not.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

mjjesamor said:
oh yeah right so Porte had planned to sing a song called breaking news? Everybody watchin the news on james porte, they wanna see me fall coz i'm james porte!!LOL
Was James Porte going to be recording a song about 'killin up the life in the birds and the trees' too?
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the song was always about Michael Jackson. just supposed to be sung by someone else.
Not like if Madonna was going to sing, then the lyrics "... see me fall cause i'm Madonna". even though, the lyrics would would fit to her also.
or Mariah carey or prince or ...

Kapital77 said:
Enjoy the NEW LIES:

[youtube]Y1fO2sqNTgo[/youtube]
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thanks for the video. i didn't know BN had different/alternate lyrics. jk.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

LOL Jason sounds nothing like Michael especially with his vocals over the instrumental of BN. That was cool to hear.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
I'm talking about established bands here. Not ones who have to record in a bathroom because they're poor. They do it for the sound it creates. Recording in a bathroom has a really cool effect. I can't really explain it. You have to hear it to know what I mean.
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My current concerns are not whether recording in a bathroom is a useful tool for creating new sounds. My concerns are whether or not, Michael has been known to experiment a lot with his vocals in a single song/demo/guide vocal track?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't think we really know. We've hardly heard his demo tapes.

Remember, Michael Jackson was a perfectionist about these things, he didn't want people to normally hear his songs in unfinished states...

However, after you die, most artists music eventually becomes available... like paintings or journals will eventually be discovered by any artist. Unless they are destroyed or protected by someone.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

wolfrevenant said:
My current concerns are not whether recording in a bathroom is a useful tool for creating new sounds. My concerns are whether or not, Michael has been known to experiment a lot with his vocals in a single song/demo/guide vocal track?
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Why wouldn't he experiment sometimes? He's a musical genius.
 
Lom kit. The songs were not always for Michael Jackson. The songs were for James Porte aka Bobby Ewing's album.
Here's a reminder of how Teddy says the vocals sounded when he received them.....“When I heard these songs, my heart cried hearing Michael again in good spirits. The vocals sounded very polished, very on key and processed. I have no doubts that these are Michael’s vocals.”
So the Cascios had already processed the vocals when they were handed over and everything else had been destroyed. How convenient! There are many reasons why they haven't been sued. The biggest being that they have sufficiently ass covered. Covering one's ass legally does not necessarily mean that a fraud hasn't been committed but that it would be too hard if not impossible to prove and as such i would imagine that family may have been advised against suing. If the alleged original guide vocals were deleted and all that is left is the already heavily processed vocals how would that give a conclusive result? It wouldn't. The tiny amount of real MJ guide vocals hidden in there amongst the layers and layers of vocals would throw off any comparison or analysis. I'll bet that's what they banked on and that's exactly what happened.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
Why wouldn't he experiment sometimes? He's a musical genius.
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No-one's saying he wouldn't experiment, but sing 3 songs in the shower? Not me I just wash 'n' go (sorry got a bit confused there).

Why would he experiment to the detriment of his talent?

It's like him moonwalking on a bouncy castle to see what would happen.


Three times.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I also don't know why people don't think a professional artist such as himself would go to such a low quality recording atmosphere.

You think Michael Jackson walks around all hot shot, like 'Get me the best damn microphone around, asap, and bring me those m&m's, only the red ones... Now!!! Hey, I can't hear myself in these headphones, what the hell kind of bullshit recording studio is this? Hell no I ain't recording in here. I'm Michael Jackson. I am the King. Royalty, ya dig? I don't do this shtick, I'm out. Peace, Eddie.'

'No, Michael, Michael, come back!!!' screams Eddie, but Michael's security blocks him off as Michael walks into the distance to go back to working with Will.I.Am.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
I don't think we really know. We've hardly heard his demo tapes.
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It's true we don't have the demo tapes of every one of his songs. But, we do have many officially released demos or unofficially leaked demos. Just to name a few on top of my head:

1. WDAN
2. DSTYGE
3. Bille Jean
4. Beat It
5. She's Out of My Life
6. Sunset Driver
7. WBSS
8. The Girl Is Mine
9. Starlight
10. Love Never Felt So Good
11. This Is It
12. Trouble
13. WATW
14. Groove of Midnight
15. Scared of the Moon
16. Dangerous
17. Give In To Me
18. In the Closet
19. In the Back
20. Fall Again
21. Beautiful Girl
22. She Got It

IMHO, I don't feel much "experimentation" of his voice. He definitely experimented with different instrumentals though.

The above list shows a wide range of different vocal styles and various degree of completeness. One thing in common - Michael Jackson sounded like Michael Jackson.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
Has Rodney Jerkins outright said that the vocals on the Cascio tracks were indisputably fake
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'Fraid so. Is he a 'liar'?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical, most of those songs have complete demo instrumentation and mixed demo vocals. I'm talking about demo tapes, like actual first ever thought recorded down into a tape recorder, like with The Girl is Mine, hearing him say 'strings...' and talking to himself, randomly going into a different song, etc.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Is there a link or something where Rodney says this? Just to read/watch for myself.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Tony R said:
No-one's saying he wouldn't experiment, but sing 3 songs in the shower? Not me I just wash 'n' go (sorry got a bit confused there).

Why would he experiment to the detriment of his talent?

It's like him moonwalking on a bouncy castle to see what would happen.


Three times.
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That would be true if he had chosen to sing at the top of a hill on a windy day. But he chose to record in a bathroom. A well known and popular way of recording vocals and music to create different and usually superior sound.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

'a usually superior sound' lol It went drastically wrong for the Cascios so i guess
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
We're not debating ethics as such, but the unethical release of the songs.
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like I said what is ethical and unethical isn't a commonly agreed upon subject either. everyone would have their own ideas about ethical / unethical


Qustions for you:

Who is holding the panel? What is written on the panel?Did the Cascio sell those tracks to SONY?

Another series of questions for you:

Who is holding the panel? What is written on the panel? Can you please give me a definition of the word "PHONEY"?
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Sure Michael had issues with Sony but that's not the question here. I also wonder why people ONLY mention 2001. Fast forward to 2007 and Thriller 25. Google for an article with Peter Lopez and then read Raymone Bain lawsuit. It will all tell you that in 2007 Michael signed an new agreement with Sony for Thriller 25, agreed to produce new versions of the songs (co-produced with Will.i.am), provided new background vocals (some recorded at at Cascio's some recorded by Will.i.am) and agreed to do promotion of Thriller 25 (hence several magazine interviews, participating in Big Boy Radio show etc). so in 2007 Michael was okay to sign an new project deal with Sony and hand them new vocals as well. You need to add this bit of information as well. It's not like time froze in 2001.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
Why wouldn't he experiment sometimes? He's a musical genius.
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He has been known to experiment, of course. But going based on the examples given by samhabib, the experimentation seems to be only performed on background instrumentals. And even if, out there, he has experimented before with his vocals, be it singing through a pipe or in the shower, has he been known to perform several experimentations on his vocals in a single song/demo/guide vocal track?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta, Rodney posted thison twitter, not too long after BN was released. There was a link at one time. But if someone doesn't have it handy, it will take a lot of looking to find it. It was posted in one of those massive threads that were moving a mile a minute.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It seems that people forget that Michael did sing some of "Billie Jean" in a plastic pipe. It's pretty obvious where, just as it is for "Monster".

EDIT: Thanks, Ginvid!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

wolfrevenant said:
He has been known to experiment, of course. But going based on the examples given by samhabib, the experimentation seems to be only performed on background instrumentals. And even if, out there, he has experimented before with his vocals, be it singing through a pipe or in the shower, has he been known to perform several experimentations on his vocals in a single song/demo/guide vocal track?
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I don't know. But none of us are Michael and none of us know his every thought, intention and action. So wondering what he might or might not have tried is pretty pointless.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
I also don't know why people don't think a professional artist such as himself would go to such a low quality recording atmosphere.

You think Michael Jackson walks around all hot shot, like 'Get me the best damn microphone around, asap, and bring me those m&m's, only the red ones... Now!!! Hey, I can't hear myself in these headphones, what the hell kind of bullshit recording studio is this? Hell no I ain't recording in here. I'm Michael Jackson. I am the King. Royalty, ya dig? I don't do this shtick, I'm out. Peace, Eddie.'

'No, Michael, Michael, come back!!!' screams Eddie, but Michael's security blocks him off as Michael walks into the distance to go back to working with Will.I.Am.
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No, no. We all know how humble and gentle Michael Jackson was. But, he did have an extremely high standard for himself and his collaborators. He's a perfectionist and was very serious about his works. It's his nature. I've read how a Michael Jackson demo is good enough to be released. I've read how Michael Jackson never sang a bad note. I've read how Michael Jackson never had a bad take. I've read what Michael Jackson considered bad is already good enough to other music professionals. The people who said the above did not exaggerate. When I listen to all the demos of Michael, it's quite true that the moment he opened his mouth and sang, he created magic.

I have doubt in the Cascio tracks not because I have doubt in Michael's creativity or productivity. I have doubt because the outputs from those sessions were not consistant to what Michael had done throughout his career.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
Well the CD says "9 previously unreleased vocal tracks performed by Michael Jackson". If that were later found to be false, they would be in very big trouble. The fact that no one has legally challenged this album would seem to indicate they have no grounds to do so.
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The Way you love me was released before on the Ultimate collection as a demo, so yeah they aren't lying
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Regarding Rodney Jerkins, has anyone contacted him since? That was probably just his initial impressions. A lot of people here were torn at first but have since believed that the songs are legit.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
It seems that people forget that Michael did sing some of "Billie Jean" in a plastic pipe. It's pretty obvious where, just as it is for "Monster".

EDIT: Thanks, Ginvid!
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Which is why I asked if he did several experimentations on his vocals in a single track. Right now, the Cascios seem to be telling me that Michael recorded in a basement for effect A on his voice, recorded in a bathroom for effect B, recorded while sitting down in that bathroom for effect C (if you can call it one), recorded through a PVC pipe for effect D, and had further productions on these tracks (based on what Teddy says, that the tracks were already produced) for effect E.

So, I'm wondering, is Michael known to do this number of experimentations on his vocals on one, single track?
 
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