Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Superstition]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not one?

Honestly, no. I mean, sure, all the songs sound sorta, kinda like MJ. I mean, its obvious who the song is supposed to be, regardless of whether its him or not. If someone was standing in front of me and started singing, and they sounded like the voice on the tracks in question, I'd say "Wow, sounds like MJ." But in the context of the fact that the songs are supposedly him... then no, I don't think it sounds like him.

There is not one line of these tracks where I can say "Oh yeah, without question that's MJ." The only time that happens are with the parts lifted from the songs we're familiar with.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Has anyone thought that perhaps the shower was the most appropriate place because they were in a house with a family living in it and Michael Jackson's children, and to not disturb them Michael went into the smallest room of the house and recorded in a very small environment to not disturb the whole house?

@samhabib: Haven't found the song that sounds like All I Need yet, because All I Need is a brand new song, I'd be a bit disappointed if I could find a song that sounds like it, but it sure is a superbly beautiful song, not bullshit like you say it is. I guess Speechless is a lot like it, even the You Are Not Alone reference in both songs(even though All I Need's reference seems added later)!

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Has anyone thought that perhaps the shower was the most appropriate place because they were in a house with a family living in it and Michael Jackson's children, and to not disturb them Michael went into the smallest room of the house and recorded in a very small environment to not disturb the whole house?

No.

But now that you mention it, I'm sure Eddie Cascio will confirm as much in, say, 6 months time?

Any other straws you want to clutch? I mean... this is getting desperate and all...?

@samhabib: Haven't found the song that sounds like All I Need yet...

Funny that...

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe he was singing in the shower as he hadn't warmed up his voice and he didn't want to faucet.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

hi bumper :cheeky: I was calling you all day

You were?

Ethics is another issue and another debate like I said.

We're not debating ethics as such, but the unethical release of the songs. To hear a track with so much doubts surounding it, is betraying Michael, his legacy, his friendship and what he stood for. "Anything for the money" - that's unethical.

I'll just say this I don't think ethical business behavior equal to "perfect unquestionable" products

Qustions for you:


Who is holding the panel?
What is written on the panel?
Did the Cascio sell those tracks to SONY?

Another series of questions for you:

Who is holding the panel?
What is written on the panel?
Can you please give me a definition of the word "PHONEY"?

(think of cigarettes, alcohol, selling fast food to kids with toys) , it's more about openness and honesty. For example some might argue that it's not an ethical responsibility to sell safe products but it's ethical responsibility to tell you the risks. Whether to buy/use those products will be your choice.

You are comparing people selling dangerous products to other people letting them know that the products are dangerous

to

Michael's longterm friends who decided to sell private stuff and are questioned by thousands of people (according to the statistics only, but in reality it might be hundreds of thousands).

Nice comparison.

and ethics isn't a commonly agreed topic either.

Well, in terms of Michael's lyrics in the song "MONEY" and seeing him holding those panels, I think we have pretty much the idea what was unethical to him.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

(For example although you claim to be "unbiased", today you couldn't even entertain the idea of "shower vocal booth" and automatically dismissed it as "ridiculous lies". An unbiased evaluating person would at least acknowledge the "possibility" and try to "debunk" it by explaining why it wouldn't be a factor). Plus to me it's also quite obvious that you do not read what I write. Therefore given the fact that my opinion isn't respected by you (as you said before) and as my ideas wouldn't be even entertained by you, I believe my time and effort is spent better doing other things.

Eddie Cascio's claim that the greatest vocalist of all time would record 12 tracks whilst sitting down in a shower - hence, explaining away the reason as to why 'Michael' sounds different - is so preposterous that it doesn't deserve to be considered as legitimate.*

With your legal awareness you should know the difference between reasonable and unreasonable doubt. The claim that a master vocalist like Michael Jackson would purposefully compress his diaphragm while being at his most productive in over a decade is so far from 'reasonable' that it's completely ridiculous. And I value my sanity way too much to entertain the preposterous.

You entertain it all you like. Sooner or later the excuses are going to run dry and we'll just be left with the vocals. Which, by everyone's admission, sound nothing like previous Michael Jackson vocals.*Entertain that idea for a while.

 

[Worldwide]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Eddie Cascio's claim that the greatest vocalist of all time would record 12 tracks whilst sitting down in a shower - hence, explaining away the reason as to why 'Michael' sounds different - is so preposterous that it doesn't deserve to be considered as legitimate.*

With your legal awareness you should know the difference between reasonable and unreasonable doubt. The claim that a master vocalist like Michael Jackson would purposefully compress his diaphragm while being at his most productive in over a decade is so far from 'reasonable' that it's completely ridiculous. And I value my sanity way too much to entertain the preposterous.

You entertain it all you like. Sooner or later the excuses are going to run dry and we'll just be left with the vocals. Which, by everyone's admission, sound nothing like previous Michael Jackson vocals.*Entertain that idea for a while.

omg its utterbullshit excuse. wow. that's all you have sir, lmao. You evidently don't know anything about the recording process do you?

He must've recorded vocals in the SHOWER and in that basement studio. But your just like a JB fan, automatically dismiss everything if it doesn't fit in with your "vision".

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

omg its utterbullshit excuse. wow. that's all you have sir, lmao. You evidently don't know anything about the recording process do you?

He must've recorded vocals in the SHOWER and in that basement studio. But your just like a JB fan, automatically dismiss everything if it doesn't fit in with your "vision".

I think I'm losing it as I can't tell what's sarcasm or real anymore.

Are you seriously saying that Michael Jackson recorded these songs in the shower and that's why it doesn't sound like him?

And then are you having a go at Sam because he quite rightly thinks that's a presposterous idea?

Think about what you're saying. Michael Jackson recorded at least 3 songs in the shower, IN THE SHOWER ?. The vocals came out below par (to say the least) but they still used them?

Also, it's possible the vocals were recorded through a PVC pipe ('I want to love you, P.V.C.') and he was hunched over.

Why would he be doing these things? WHY? WHY? Why would the guy with the best pop/rock voice of all time not want to sound like himself. Especially when 'This Is It' shows he still had it vocally.

Is it not just a teeny bit more plausible that the MJ vocals either aren't there or are barely there and they used an imitator to pad then out?

If, of course, you weren't being serious then pass me a towel as there's egg on my face.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

('I want to love you, P.V.C.')

"Cool my fire in the shower, come sit with me..."

 

[wolfrevenant]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

All twelve songs from the Cascios were recorded as Michael was sitting down in the shower, or just the three?

Based on what I've come up so far (pardon if I've missed out some points), the results on Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up and Monster are due to:

Recording in a basement +
Recording in the shower whilst sitting down +
Recording through a PVC pipe +
Not singing for some time +
Not warming up +
Wanting to try something new +
Production from the Cascios +
Some more production from Teddy Riley

Thus, resulting in the Michael we hear on the tracks, who seems to have a different accent, vibrato, tone, timbre, and so on.


Right now, I'm just trying to picture Michael sitting in the shower, in the basement, holding a PVC pipe and singing through it, whilst Eddie is there pushing buttons or something. But overall, it's really quite the stretch of the imagination. Nevertheless, it's not my place to say how Michael records his songs, since I'm not in the "know" of how he works in the studio.

So, I'll just ask this:

Is Michael known to experiment a lot (such as: using different environments besides the usual professional studio, using a variety of mediums to sing through, or just plain singing differently) for recording a single song?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Is Michael known to experiment a lot (such as: using different environments besides the usual professional studio, using a variety of mediums to sing through, or just plain singing differently) for recording a single song?

Not to the degree where he sounds exactly like Jason Malachi, no.

 

[wolfrevenant]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not to the degree where he sounds exactly like Jason Malachi, no.

What's the most he ever experimented in a song then (Or demos, for that matter)?

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Guess not.....

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What's the most he ever experimented in a song then (Or demos, for that matter)?

You can listen to the DSTYGE demo - you can hear all sorts, cow bells, Randy playing percussion, Janet playing percussion, hiccups, handclaps, all sorts.

He experimented, no question. Why you wanna trip on me has the sound of dogs sampled as the main beat - if i remember correctly. Billie Jean - Bruce Swedien put a dampner on the bass drum to get that puffy effect. Etc, etc.

The only difference is that on ALL OF THOSE SONGS and ALL OF THOSE DEMOs Michael Jackson's vocals sound like Michael Jackson vocals.

Everything we're being told here will never add up because the vocals are so far removed from sounding like Michael Jackson vocals that it's impossible to believe any of it. The thought that a master vocalist would sit in a shower and sing these songs is too ludicrous for words.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Right now, I'm just trying to picture Michael sitting in the shower, in the basement, holding a PVC pipe and singing through it, whilst Eddie is there pushing buttons or something. But overall, it's really quite the stretch of the imagination. Nevertheless, it's not my place to say how Michael records his songs, since I'm not in the "know" of how he works in the studio.

Suggested tracklisting for an MJ album recorded under these circumstances:

1. Man In The (steamed up) Mirror
2. P.V.C. (Pretty Vacant Crap)
3. Heat It
4. (Not so) Dirty Diana
5. Another Part Of Me (to wash)
6. In The (Water) Closet
7. Can't Get Outta The Rain
8. Privacy
9. Water 'Bout Us (Earth Song demo)


and possibly a duet with Loofah Vandross.

 

[wolfrevenant]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You can listen to the DSTYGE demo - you can hear all sorts, cow bells, Randy playing percussion, Janet playing percussion, hiccups, handclaps, all sorts.

He experimented, no question. Why you wanna trip on me has the sound of dogs sampled as the main beat - if i remember correctly. Billie Jean - Bruce Swedien put a dampner on the bass drum to get that puffy effect. Etc, etc.

The only difference is that on ALL OF THOSE SONGS and ALL OF THOSE DEMOs Michael Jackson's vocals sound like Michael Jackson vocals.

Everything we're being told here will never add up because the vocals are so far removed from sounding like Michael Jackson vocals that it's impossible to believe any of it. The thought that a master vocalist would sit in a shower and sing these songs is too ludicrous for words.

Based on the examples you gave, those seem to be more of experimentations on the background instrumentals, which is not really the problem here. But since he is known to experiment a lot, I'm guessing he did experiment with his vocals before? And if so, what did he do to touch up his vocals and for which songs?

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Suggested tracklisting for an MJ album recorded under these circumstances:

1. Man In The (steamed up) Mirror
2. P.V.C. (Pretty Vacant Crap)
3. Heat It
4. (Not so) Dirty Diana
5. Another Part Of Me (to wash)
6. In The (Water) Closet
7. Can't Get Outta The Rain
8. Privacy
9. Water 'Bout Us (Earth Song demo)


and possibly a duet with Loofah Vandross.

How about that track he did with Rockwell, 'I always feel like... somebody's washing me...'???

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

How about that track he did with Rockwell, 'I always feel like... somebody's washing me...'???

Brilliant!

 

[samhabib]

and possibly a duet with Loofah Vandross.

Ah yes... Loofah Vandross. Remember that classic 'Give me the reason to wash your back"? Man, I loved that song!

Quincy Jones
"He was like a sponge. Michael showed a curiosity for everything. It was unbelievable in someone so young. I appreciated watching it work."

Michael Jackson
“I was like a sponge watching everyone, and trying to learn everything I could. I was totally absorbed.”

It all makes sense now. He must have been fully absorbed at the Cascios...

 

[Tony R]

Ah yes... Loofah Vandross. Remember that classic 'Give me the reason to wash your back"? Man, I loved that song!

Quincy Jones
"He was like a sponge. Michael showed a curiosity for everything. It was unbelievable in someone so young. I appreciated watching it work."

Michael Jackson
“I was like a sponge watching everyone, and trying to learn everything I could. I was totally absorbed.”

It all makes sense now. He must have been fully absorbed at the Cascios...

It all becomes clear.

It may also explain why the last album was called Unrinseable.

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's really not unusual to record in a bathroom or shower. I know some bands who've done it.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

is so preposterous that it doesn't deserve to be considered as legitimate.

please give me the list of ideas / explanations / theories that came from Sony/ Cascio/ Estate / "believers" that you entertained , acknowledged as "possible" even though you might not agree with...

oh wait.. it's zero.

they are all utter complete bullshit nonsense excuses right?



anyway off to clean the thread (ah ginvid beat me to it)

 

[ginvid]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

OK, everybody just take a breath.

The proper way to respond to someone is not calling them stupid and names similar to this. Especially, if you don't have a history of posting this way, it would be better to walk away form a thread before someone gets to you so much, maybe?

Thread cleaned.

Please remember to report instead of responding if someone says something out of line.

Thank you.

 

[wolfrevenant]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It's really not unusual to record in a bathroom or shower. I know some bands who've done it.

Some bands might have done it, but is Michael one to do that?

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Some bands might have done it, but is Michael one to do that?

I'm talking about established bands here. Not ones who have to record in a bathroom because they're poor. They do it for the sound it creates. Recording in a bathroom has a really cool effect. I can't really explain it. You have to hear it to know what I mean.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

please give me the list of ideas / explanations / theories that came from Sony/ Cascio/ Estate / "believers" that you entertained , acknowledged as "possible" even though you might not agree with...

oh wait.. it's zero.

they are all utter complete bullshit nonsense excuses right?

What you're asking me is this:

"The second-hand car salesman who is selling the Mercedes claims it's brand new and is everything he claims it is. Have you ever considered that everything he has told you is the truth? Bearing in mind that you have driven the car and it drives like a Skoda? And you've driven hundreds of Mercedes before?"

And my answer would be "If it drives like a Skoda... it's a Skoda... and nothing the seller says to me will make a damn bit of difference as he stands to financially benefit from telling such lies".

Does that make it clear?

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Funny how samhabib says Michael recording in a shower is such a completely ridiculous idea. Oh, brother... how sad... Also fails to realize that I said Speechless is like All I Need, and it is.

 

[Tony R]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Funny how samhabib says Michael recording in a shower is such a completely ridiculous idea. Oh, brother... how sad... Also fails to realize that I said Speechless is like All I Need, and it is.

To confirm, it's not just Sam who says that it's a completely ridiculous idea.

And it's not just the idea of him doing it, it's the idea that it would suddenly make him sound like a two-bit impersonator of himself.

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So, that shower thing was really claimed by Casio's. i thought this was a joke by someone here and people are having fun.
Ok, that there are no photos or videos by Michael recording in the studio isn't that odd.
BUT, Michael singing in the shower? Doesn't matter who's there with him, the Cascios, his mother or his kids. I mean him been in the shower recording, anyone would grab his cellphone and make a picture. thats like the ultimate thing. So extraordinary for him. next to him sitting on the toilet and writing songs. it has to be immortalizes.

Now, that there are no pics of that memorable moment, prove the songs are fake (to some extend).
Not that there are no footage at all.
we've seen him in his pijamas, many times at home and in public places. And you can't tell me that no one did make a pic of Michael recording in the shower.

And singing in the shower, wouldn't that make you sound better?
thats why every average joe thinks he can sing. cause in the bathroom, we all sound great.
And like already said, some singers really do record that way. And it's nothing wrong with that.

 

[barok232]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Funny how samhabib says Michael recording in a shower is such a completely ridiculous idea. Oh, brother... how sad... Also fails to realize that I said Speechless is like All I Need, and it is.

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: