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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe it wasn't Eddie's top concern? Maybe he wasn't like 'Damn, I gotta run and grab my cellphone so I can get a shot of this, this is priceless!' Being around Michael so much I'm sure it wasn't a rare treat to see Michael around his house, I don't know why he'd be photographing him like he's at a zoo.

edit @ barok232: Nice reply with the facepalms. You really showed me! I think All I Need could definitely be as powerful as Speechless if it had been completely finished. Very beautiful... I love it very much.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Okay, I'll try to explain why recording in a bathroom makes you sound noticeably different.
Basically, unlike a normal room, bathrooms are very sparse, hard and empty. And all the sound bounces back off the tiles and enclosed space, creating a very clear, full, and sometimes echoing vocal, that's really clean sounding with a beautiful ambience. You can do the same thing with instruments too to create a very cool effect.
Artists choose to use bathrooms because you can record better, cleaner vocals and sounds for certain songs in a bathroom than in a normal environment.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
Okay, I'll try to explain why recording in a bathroom makes you sound noticeably different.
Basically, unlike a normal room, bathrooms are very sparse, hard and empty. And all the sound bounces back off the tiles and enclosed space, creating a very clear, full, and sometimes echoing vocal, that's really clean sounding with a beautiful ambience. You can do it with instruments too to create a very cool effect.
Artists choose to use bathrooms because you can record better, cleaner vocals and sounds for certain songs in a bathroom than in a normal environment.
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If I sing in the bathroom my wife knows it's me. If I sing in the kitchen my wife knows it's me.

The acoustics of the bathroom may alter the voice slightly & give it a different resonance but it would make it so a very large percentage of fans doubt it's the same person singing.

Also, having heard Michael's voice on Off The Wall -> Invincible -> This Is It, wouldn't you question why he'd suddenly want to make his voice sound different.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hard to believe it happened with zero proof. Eddie isn't very convincing either. On oprah all he could muster was that he was there pushing buttons while michael directed and in this latest video he claims michael recorded in the shower, spoke about their friendship and said 'we had what we had and we got the job done' eddie's eyes seem to glaze over when talking about the tracks.I wish eddie would elaborate on that, what exactly did eddie have? What exactly was sent into the copyright office 2 days after mj died? The fully completed lead vocals of the tracks we have heard? I have a huge difficulty believing that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
Maybe it wasn't Eddie's top concern? Maybe he wasn't like 'Damn, I gotta run and grab my cellphone so I can get a shot of this, this is priceless!' Being around Michael so much I'm sure it wasn't a rare treat to see Michael around his house, I don't know why he'd be photographing him like he's at a zoo.

edit @ barok232: Nice reply with the facepalms. You really showed me! I think All I Need could definitely be as powerful as Speechless if it had been completely finished. Very beautiful... I love it very much.
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(Since you like the facepalm emoticon)

:doh: multiplied by x (x being a number of your choice, I leave that to you :D)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Tony R said:
If I sing in the bathroom my wife knows it's me. If I sing in the kitchen my wife knows it's me.

The acoustics of the bathroom may alter the voice slightly & give it a different resonance but it would make it so a very large percentage of fans doubt it's the same person singing.

Also, having heard Michael's voice on Off The Wall -> Invincible -> This Is It, wouldn't you question why he'd suddenly want to make his voice sound different.
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I'm just suggesting why he might sound different. And the fact that some people can recognise those vocals as Michael means that they aren't unrecognisable, otherwise no one would think they were Michael.
I understand the doubt, but with no actual proof that they aren't Michael, the logical thing to assume is that they are. Everyone working on the project who heard the raw vocals says it is. Are they suddenly untrustworthy because some have a different opinion? There is no evidence of that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
Does that make it clear?
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yes .. bias all the way if you cannot even entertain one idea..


Anna said:
I'm talking about established bands here. Not ones who have to record in a bathroom because they're poor. They do it for the sound it creates. Recording in a bathroom has a really cool effect. I can't really explain it. You have to hear it to know what I mean.
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As far as I know a lot of R&B / Rap artists use it. and apparently Aerosmith used in in one song.


lom kit said:
And singing in the shower, wouldn't that make you sound better? thats why every average joe thinks he can sing. cause in the bathroom, we all sound great. And like already said, some singers really do record that way. And it's nothing wrond with that.
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according to musical boards you think you sound "better" because it blurs your voice and makes you sound deeper/fuller - in other words it covers mistakes. but they also say if you record in a bathroom as there are a lot of hard surfaces (such as tiles, mirrors etc) the voice will reflect back from those surfaces and create a reverb and an echo effect - good if you want it , really bad if you don't.

If I sing in the bathroom my wife knows it's me. If I sing in the kitchen my wife knows it's me.
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True. But no one is saying that Michael is sounding like Bono, right? everyone is saying that he's sounding like Jason - a MJ impostor - and also argue that Jason is able to fool a good number of fans/musicians/experts to believe he's Michael. so the argument about Cascio vocals is based on "they are sounding similar yet different".
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

mjjesamor said:
Hard to believe it happened with zero proof. Eddie isn't very convincing either. On oprah all he could muster was that he was there pushing buttons while michael directed and in this latest video he claims michael recorded in the shower, spoke about their friendship and said 'we had what we had and we got the job done' eddie's eyes seem to glaze over when talking about the tracks.I wish eddie would elaborate on that, what exactly did eddie have? What exactly was sent into the copyright office 2 days after mj died? The fully completed lead vocals of the tracks we have heard? I have a huge difficulty believing that.
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Eddie has been so VAGUE in all of this....It's so suspicious; it's hard for me to fathom that people are just lapping this all up...

It really has been excuse after excuse after excuse....None of it adds up and none of it explains why he sounds like a completely different person...Which is why it's not easy to actually entertain the idea...

It really is ridiculous....Come on now...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna, thanks for the explanation of the effects of recording in a shower. Unfortunately the explanation in no way validates the idea that MJ recorded the Cascio tracks like that. You say recording in the shower gives 'a very clear, full, and sometimes echoing vocal, that's really clean sounding with a beautiful ambience' We have been told all along that the vocals were so bad and unclear that they had to be processed and that is why they sound different. All the various reasons we've been given don't make sense. None of it makes sense. recording in the shower would not change a singer's accent/pronunciation.
Arklove, that is true. Eddie's middle name should be 'vague'. I can believe that perhaps in the time he was there Michael sang a few lines here and there and Eddie recorded them. I can believe that Eddie may have asked for advice and that Michael showed him a thing or two and recorded some random lines or things Eddie asked him to sing here and there. I can believe that Eddie was really desperate to make it as a producer and make a name for himself. I can believe that he presented the songs he did with Porte and asked Michael to record them. He says as much in the video, sounds like he spent a long time hassling Michael to collaborate with him. Poor Mike, even his second family wanted something out the relationship. Can i believe that Michael agreed to do them collaborated with Eddie and wrote and recorded in their entirety the lead vocals of the 5 songs we have heard in Eddie's basement and shower on bad equipment with the intention to work on them further and release them on an album? Not in a million years!
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Actually, we've been told that the vocals were out of tune, which is why they needed processing. Nothing about the clarity, as far as I'm aware.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
I understand the doubt, but with no actual proof that they aren't Michael, the logical thing to assume is that they are.
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Because there's proof it is him?

Anna said:
Everyone working on the project who heard the raw vocals says it is.
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You mean all of the people with a financial interest in saying it is him have said it is him? Well who'd have thought it?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
Actually, we've been told that the vocals were out of tune, which is why they needed processing. Nothing about the clarity, as far as I'm aware.
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Oh yes... the master vocalist who sings out of tune. Another one for the list!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@samhabib, their motivation was to continue Michael's legacy. They would want to protect it, rather than sell out. Just because a man's dead doesn't mean his closest colleagues would sell out instantly. People CAN sing out of tune. MJ didn't always have to be "on". People CAN have off days or not try.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

mjjesamor said:
Anna, thanks for the explanation of the effects of recording in a shower. Unfortunately the explanation in no way validates the idea that MJ recorded the Cascio tracks like that. You say recording in the shower gives 'a very clear, full, and sometimes echoing vocal, that's really clean sounding with a beautiful ambience' We have been told all along that the vocals were so bad and unclear that they had to be processed and that is why they sound different. All the various reasons we've been given don't make sense. None of it makes sense. recording in the shower would not change a singer's accent/pronunciation.
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I'm just saying that recording in a bathroom is not unpopular like some people think and that it does change the sound of the voice. And that's before any editing the producers do afterwards with programming.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
I'm just suggesting why he might sound different. And the fact that some people can recognise those vocals as Michael means that they aren't unrecognisable, otherwise no one would think they were Michael.
I understand the doubt, but with no actual proof that they aren't Michael, the logical thing to assume is that they are. Everyone working on the project who heard the raw vocals says it is. Are they suddenly untrustworthy because some have a different opinion? There is no evidence of that.
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The fact that a good percentage do not believe or at least largely question the vocals should be enough to throw doubt on the issue.

Because the vocals to me & many others do not sound like the MJ we've all grown up with the logical thing is not to assume they are but to assume they aren't.

Add to that the disclaimer on the back of the album that says something like the vocals have been added to by others, without saying how much of it is 'others' then it makes full sense to believe that the majority of the vocal is not MJ.

For me, I could be convinced that the first verse of Monster is MJ, but I cannot hear one note (apart from the samples) on Breaking News that is Michael Jackson. Play me every other song in his back catalogue and that stands out like a sore thumb.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
Because there's proof it is him?



You mean all of the people with a financial interest in saying it is him have said it is him? Well who'd have thought it?
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Those people were good friends to MJ. Why would all of them suddenly turn around and betray him, when their job is protecting his legacy? Would you betray MJ if you were his friend? Claiming that all of them did, is a very harsh thing to assume. Are they complete idiots? I don't think so.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Lemme ask you this: Was any other song from MJ's back catalogue guide vocals? Were they guide vocals from an unusual recording source? Were they in need of Melodyne to correct the tune? NO! Because MJ wouldn't release vocals like that. Michael would've professionally recorded them at a later date.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
Those people were good friends to MJ. Why would all of them suddenly turn around and betray him, when their job is protecting his legacy? Would you betray MJ if you were his friend? Claiming that all of them did, is a very harsh thing to assume. Are they complete idiots? I don't think so.
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Because they don't see it as betraying him. It's possible Mike had some input into these records. I think maybe they started the writing process together & Mike maybe even sung a few lyrics into a dictaphone somewhere.

Then they tried to build a masterpiece out of a doodle. Along the way MJ got lost amongst the lyrics other people wrote and MJs voice got oversung by others.

I think their heart was possibly in the right place and they wanted the kudos of being on an MJ record. They took the songs to Sony who probably either didn't realise the extent of how much of the song wasn't MJ or didn't care.

It's no big conspiracy just very badly misjudged & executed.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well the CD says "9 previously unreleased vocal tracks performed by Michael Jackson". If that were later found to be false, they would be in very big trouble. The fact that no one has legally challenged this album would seem to indicate they have no grounds to do so.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anna said:
I'm talking about established bands here. Not ones who have to record in a bathroom because they're poor. They do it for the sound it creates. Recording in a bathroom has a really cool effect. I can't really explain it. You have to hear it to know what I mean.
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Okay. The question is more about Michael's habits and preference.

Like what wolfrevenant asked earlier, did Michael experiment with his recording surrounding before? Does anyone of us know whether he recorded in a shower in Neverland before?

It's not unusual for other musicians to record in a shower, mess around during the demo recordings, record a good amount of songs in a short period of time. But, would Michael do all of the above?

Also, would the special sound effect resulted from a shower recording change the timber of one's voice?

Like wolfrevenant, I'm trying to imagine Michael Jackson singing in a shower. Honestly, I have a hard time doing so.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If there was no other good place to record vocals, I'd imagine Michael would. After all, he just loved to record music, I'm sure he wasn't fussed about recorded if it was just guide vocals and not something that would appear on an album so it would have to be perfect.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That's the thing, these vocals would have been raw guide, demo vocals probably recorded with sub-par equipment. No doubt to be re-recorded at a later date professionally. They probably had to be digitally altered a lot to be fit for release.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It makes no sense that Michael recorded guide vocals with lyrics that were fully completed. Talk about doing things backwards! It didn't happen.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Unless he and Eddie worked on the songs together, and Michael Jackson was also known to complete songs very quickly.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ever thought that the vocals on the album were temporary vocals? Like in "Behind the Mask", that has filler vocals. It's not so outlandish to believe that those were filler vocals.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What exactly were filler vocals?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

mjjesamor said:
It makes no sense that Michael recorded guide vocals with lyrics that were fully completed. Talk about doing things backwards! It didn't happen.
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why wouldn't it happen?

did you hear what Akon said on the latest video? He talks with Michael about doing something, he says he had a song - that's written for Akon and already done- brings it to Michael to listen. Michael loves it and records his vocals in an hour.

As far as we know these "cascio songs" were already written as well, Eddie and Frank was recording them with Porte and when Michael was there they decided to scrap that and have Michael sing them. Same as Akon's story.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Enjoy the NEW LIES:

[youtube]Y1fO2sqNTgo[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

oh yeah right so Porte had planned to sing a song called breaking news? Everybody watchin the news on james porte, they wanna see me fall coz i'm james porte!!LOL
Was James Porte going to be recording a song about 'killin up the life in the birds and the trees' too?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I love that video capital. Es la leche!
so Eddie says Mivhael recorded the 'backrounds' int eh shower NOT the main vocals...Ah but didn't James Porte have to do the backrounds.... guide backround vocals than......right!
There was a post between those two, where did it go? How do i delete a post?
 
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