Michael - The Great Album Debate

[dangerous_88]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What a representative you are for the 'believers'. They must be so proud of you.

haha good one, can't give you that much rep, damn it

 

[ginvid]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^
HA HA HA...

(Just waited for that response) (And of course it comes from: The GREAT defender)

Do you REALLY think, the made up stuff you post in here, makes a difference?

About as much difference as the made up stuff you post here. Yet, you keep posting as well. So what of it?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Does anyone know whether Michael Jackson, over his 40 years career, had ever recorded in a basement, in a shower, except during his stay with the Cascios? I'm trying to learn more about Michael's habit.

Did he record in a shower in Ireland? In Bahrain? In Neverland?

Why it doesn't seen strange that a musicologist who knew everything about music production and had experience in the most state-of-art studios would record in such sub-standard environment? Michael knew the limitation of a bathroom surrounding. Even if he just intended to record guide vocals, why not just sing in to a tape recorder then?

What's the pros of recording in a shower? What are the incentives?

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To make it easier to mix for the music at the time?

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hey guys, where is the archived 'immortal experience' section gone? Are all the old threads about breaking news, initial reaction etc etc gone?

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They are now reserved for donators only, so you have to donate in order to view them.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To make it easier to mix for the music at the time?

Not mean to challenge you. But, I still don't get it. As Ivy mentioned, unless they install some sound proof materials in the shower; otherwise, a shower is far from an ideal place to record vocals.

Michael Jackson, a musician who had over 40 years of recording experience, knew that. Why recording in a shower if the result from a tape recorder is better?

I'm thinking hard here. I don't want to dismiss this new information. But, I need a better explanation.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

This is just a theory (NOT an excuse) but either the Cascios didn't have a tape recorder, or they'd have a tape recorder that still used a cassette to record, meaning that a show might get a better result. I personally think he did it in order to sing while relaxed. Y'know, literally singing in the shower!

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They didn't have a tape recorder? Seriously? So even though any producer that knows his stuff would know that a shower is one of the worst places to record MJ decided to record there anyway. I just cannot believe that. I think Cascio knows that vocals recorded in showers aren't good and is using it as yet another excuse as to why the vocals sound so awful.
Interesting that one has to be a donator now to view those old threads and to take part in new polls or see the old polls. Any new polls regarding the vocals for example could not be taken seriously as only people willing to pay will be able to vote.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Not mean to challenge you. But, I still don't get it. As Ivy mentioned, unless they install some sound proof materials in the shower; otherwise, a shower is far from an ideal place to record vocals.

Michael Jackson, a musician who had over 40 years of recording experience, knew that. Why recording in a shower if the result from a tape recorder is better?

I'm thinking hard here. I don't want to dismiss this new information. But, I need a better explanation.

Why would he (a musician with 40 years of studio experience) even continue recording vocals that did not sound like him? 12 full songs and he didn't listen to one single track to see if it's good? I can't believe he wouldn't hear what we do.

Also, why was the set up changed for the 12 new songs compared to what was used for WBSS 2008 (recorded at the same studio, around the same time)? He sounds 100% like himself on the WBSS remix...

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Has anyone considered that Eddie actually upgraded his set-up so Michael could professionally record "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008"? Remember, these songs were never meant to released, only used to refer back to. I assume he used the shower just to do some quick recording to easily mix the music to produce an early version.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Has anyone considered that Eddie actually upgraded his set-up so Michael could professionally record "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008"? Remember, these songs were never meant to released, only used to refer back to. I assume he used the shower just to do some quick recording to easily mix the music to produce an early version.

But all songs, including WBSS, were recorded at the same time. Also, you can quite easily hear that the vocal recording on the 2008 remix is bad quality - well, certainly worse than regular studio vocals. And that's how it should be, that's how all Cascio songs should sound. I wouldn't complain.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

About as much difference as the made up stuff you post here. Yet, you keep posting as well. So what of it?

Funny that you feel the need to respond again..

But don't get me wrong:
I know that we are not protecting MJ's legacy in this forum. Especially not in this thread.

You have to do something in the (let me call it) real world, to make a difference!

Not lamenting for month & month on a website, about three songs.
Especially when there is nothing to lament about!

If you really believe what you are spreading. Go on!
You are oh so many, as you say.
Get all together! Demonstrate, collect, or donate, or whatever...
Pay an Audiology Expert. It's not that much. And if the result is what you expect:
Take a good lawyer & SUE!

But do yourself a favour & quit the crying! It doesn't help you & it NEVER will!
It is what it is!

And it is, what is stated on the back of the MICHAEL album & in the booklet accompanying that very same album!

v

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Alec, really? As far as I know, "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008" was recorded towards the end of his stay. Perhaps he recorded them right away to just get them out of the way in order to enjoy his holiday.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Alec, really? As far as I know, "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008" was recorded towards the end of his stay. Perhaps he recorded them right away to just get them out of the way in order to enjoy his holiday.

Well I was thinking that he was recording during his stay there, and he stayed there for three months.
From what I gathered, it seemed to me Eddie and MJ were working on the songs during his vacation at their home and they were recorded as C&MJ wrote/composed them. IMO 12 songs would take more than a few days to create...

It's hard to say really, there's too little information. All we know is that these 12 (5 we've heard) songs were recorded at the same studio and in the same time period of three months in 2007. That's if the Cascio tracks are real of course.

 

[ShineGloveShine]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Cascio tracks must be real, Eddie has known Michael since he was a young lad and his family seem like generous and kind people, they have kept their mouths shut for years; almost 25 years!

These vocals were in demo format, I don't think these were the final vocals, they were not finished, and this is what Sony and Eddie had to actually finish the song, because Michael's album, the new one 'Michael', is based on recordings that Mike did in the last years of his life. Except Behind the Mask, I believe this song was to be on previous albums and Michael really digged the song and wanted it to be on there a.s.a.p... I would not be surprised if there was a note somewhere like a note for "Hold My Hand to be first single".

This is all there is, nothing more, these are badly produced vocals, and that is why Teddy had to use melodyne on the vibrato because it was in bad quality, and that's what they had, badly recorded/produced vocals.

Eddie also did not record Michael in the studio that you saw: "The Angelikson Studio", all there was: a basement, a recording booth, and a mic, no state of the art stuff, just a normal mic Michael used on tours such as Bad and Victory.

At the time Michael also recorded... most likely there wasn't an Angelikson studio there.

...and finally, do I think these recordings should have been released in the state they were in?
No.

Do I think it is Michael?
Yes..

I would be glad to hear more songs from Eddie, as he looks to me like a genuine and kind guy. I must also say, they probably used the shower to pretend it to be like they're in the studio so it can filter out lossyness or a sort of grainy noise ya get.

 

[donalb]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

OMG. The shower? What next? Just another bullshit excuse to help explain these fake songs.

 

[Tom]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Move over Ivy, MJJuniorSinceMW is in the house! :bounce:

 

[ginvid]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Funny that you feel the need to respond again..

But don't get me wrong:
I know that we are not protecting MJ's legacy in this forum. Especially not in this thread.

You have to do something in the (let me call it) real world, to make a difference!

Not lamenting for month & month on a website, about three songs.
Especially when there is nothing to lament about!

If you really believe what you are spreading. Go on!
You are oh so many, as you say.
Get all together! Demonstrate, collect, or donate, or whatever...
Pay an Audiology Expert. It's not that much. And if the result is what you expect:
Take a good lawyer & SUE!

But do yourself a favour & quit the crying! It doesn't help you & it NEVER will!
It is what it is!

And it is, what is stated on the back of the MICHAEL album & in the booklet accompanying that very same album!

v

I respond when I don't agree with something that someone does. I did not appreciate your comment. I found it to be highly unnecessary. And highly offensive. If you look at my posts, you will see that I do not come here often. I normally do not feel the need. People will think as they choose to. I know what I feel and I am ok with others feeling differently. This forum is very much about MJ's legacy and I try to uphold this. Some will have more leeway than others about what is allowed to be said and this is one of them since it is a debate thread.

Since I am sure you can read the title of the thread, I know you are aware that this is a debate thread as well. meaning you are going to have people here stating their opinions and debating why they think the Cascio soings are not MJ's. So if you don't want to hear people "crying" about what they do not agree with, might I suggest you do yourself a favor and exit the thread and go to the general album thread where you will only hear of people speaking more favourable about the album and these tracks. Or is it since most of your posts are in debate threads or responding or engaging those who choose to debate, that this is your agenda and you really get a kick out of it. If so, then whatever. Get your kicks how you can. But then please stop being facecious and please stop feigning disdain for what you obviously love.

The only reason you know what is continually being lamented about in this thread is because you keep coming into this thread to begin with. No one is making you do this. You do it voluntarily. That is because it is what you want to do.

Since this is the case, might I suggest you actually join in a meaningful debate for or against, or you leave this debate thread. Your whines about the need for people to debate in a debate thread are off topic.

This is a warning for anybody coming into this thread. If you do not want a debate, and if you do not want to hear opposing views, then find another thread to post in. It's quite simple actually.

Thank you.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I respond when I don't agree with something that someone does. I did not appreciate your comment. I found it to be highly unnecessary. And highly offensive. If you look at my posts, you will see that I do not come here often. I normally do not feel the need. People will think as they choose to. I know what I feel and I am ok with others feeling differently. This forum is very much about MJ's legacy and I try to uphold this. Some will have more leeway than others about what is allowed to be said and this is one of them since it is a debate thread.

Since I am sure you can read the title of the thread, I know you are aware that this is a debate thread as well. meaning you are going to have people here stating their opinions and debating why they think the Cascio soings are not MJ's. So if you don't want to hear people "crying" about what they do not agree with, might I suggest you do yourself a favor and exit the thread and go to the general album thread where you will only hear of people speaking more favourable about the album and these tracks. Or is it since most of your posts are in debate threads or responding or engaging those who choose to debate, that this is your agenda and you really get a kick out of it. If so, then whatever. Get your kicks how you can. But then please stop being facecious and please stop feigning disdain for what you obviously love.

The only reason you know what is continually being lamented about in this thread is because you keep coming into this thread to begin with. No one is making you do this. You do it voluntarily. That is because it is what you want to do.

Since this is the case, might I suggest you actually join in a meaningful debate for or against, or you leave this debate thread. Your whines about the need for people to debate in a debate thread are off topic.

This is a warning for anybody coming into this thread. If you do not want a debate, and if you do not want to hear opposing views, then find another thread to post in. It's quite simple actually.

Thank you.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

i like how your words just cut right into the core.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well said ginvid....WELL SAID....This person has been told the same thing numerous times, so I will be surprised if your wise words actually get through...

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Okay, I'll be sitting here waiting for someone to do that. I'm not sure how to remove the reverb.

I want to openly thank you here for both evaluating the idea and offering to make experiments. I really appreciate it.

If I can put on my scientific thinking hat (without offending anyone) I think I good investigation would be somewhat hard, time consuming and needs people with good knowledge of music and such editing softwares because

1. we need a low to average quality demo vocal of MJ preferably not recorded in a professional setting with professional people.

2. then we need to add "shower vocal booth" effects (reverb, echo, bass, blurring etc ) at a normal level (whatever that might be) to achieve the "shower vocals"

3. then we need to give those finalized vocals to another person (to ensure objectivity) and ask them to correct / edit/ modify them to their best ability to remove such effects - then we can have the "modified/corrected shower vocals"

4. then it will be comparing the initial vocals to the vocals from the 3rd step to see the change.

Like I said I agree that it wouldn't be "totally different" and most probably the effect on pronunciation would be minimal to none (respect to Bumper). But I'm really curious about what the level of difference or distortion will be. Personally this sounds interesting to me.

Again thank you.

There it is again - 'It doesn't sound like Michael Jackson hence it's Michael Jackson.'

It's not quite complete "It doesn't sound like MJ because it has been recorded in substandard conditions and heavily processed hence it could still be MJ".

Let me give you an example : have you ever had a cold/sore throat, did you ever try to speak after running & out of breath, did you realize you sound hoarse when you first wake up, how about the next day after partying - inhaling smoke or the next day after shouting, effects of acoustics on voice?

In short human DNA is constant, human fingerprint is constant but human voice isn't constant - different settings different conditions can account for a "different" voice but it will still be you speaking.

Similarly the point introduced is "recording conditions and processing" can explain the difference.

Does anyone else find it strange that if we are to believe eddie mj slept on the floor in the basement alone for 4 months?

he didn't slept on the floor. they said there was a box spring and a mattress (I sleep at a similar setting). It just means that there wasn't a bed frame.

Does anyone know whether Michael Jackson, over his 40 years career, had ever recorded in a basement, in a shower, except during his stay with the Cascios? I'm trying to learn more about Michael's habit.

I actually found what Akon said to be very interesting as well.

1. He said that MJ recorded Hold My Hand vocals in 1 hour and it surprised him knowing how perfectionist he was. That explains how it's possible for Michael to record 10-12 songs with Cascio's in 3 months

2. He talked about leaking of Hold My Hand (how the master's was stolen) and Michael told him "from now on we'll work at the house". If that's how he felt he could have been open to recording in a home setting to avoid leaks. He would finalize the studio recordings at a later time / close to album release.

Why it doesn't seen strange that a musicologist who knew everything about music production and had experience in the most state-of-art studios would record in such sub-standard environment? Michael knew the limitation of a bathroom surrounding. Even if he just intended to record guide vocals, why not just sing in to a tape recorder then?

What's the pros of recording in a shower? What are the incentives?

To make it easier to mix for the music at the time?

Not mean to challenge you. But, I still don't get it. As Ivy mentioned, unless they install some sound proof materials in the shower; otherwise, a shower is far from an ideal place to record vocals.

Michael Jackson, a musician who had over 40 years of recording experience, knew that. Why recording in a shower if the result from a tape recorder is better?

I'm thinking hard here. I don't want to dismiss this new information. But, I need a better explanation.

I'm repeating what I read last night for several hours. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

One of the reasons for a vocal booth is to stop the outside noises and houses (which are generally made of wood in US) isn't that good in that regard. A tiled bathroom seems to be a better choice to stop the outside noises.

I have seen what Jesta wrote to be mentioned as well like "simultaneous mixing" and they also say shower is a good place if you are looking for that effect. I have read examples of amateur rappers recording in the shower to reach to that effect that professional rappers add at a studio. In other words if you want that effect then the shower is the perfect place for you to sing.

However they say if you want to avoid it, there are better alternatives.

It all depends on what you want to achieve in the vocals. and I agree that if Eddie told us that we'll have better understanding. However I can also see why they wouldn't do that either - because even though we can come to the conclusion of "legit vocals" by additional information , we will still be left with "low quality vocals in a substandard even wrong setting". and I think that will be the point Bumper has been making for last few days "let's say they are legit but are they acceptable?"

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I know that we are not protecting MJ's legacy in this forum. Especially not in this thread.

Not lamenting for month & month on a website, about three songs.
Especially when there is nothing to lament about!

But do yourself a favour & quit the crying! It doesn't help you & it NEVER will!
It is what it is!

And it is, what is stated on the back of the MICHAEL album & in the booklet accompanying that very same album!

(Sorry for the double post I wanted to separate this)

here I want to echo ginvid and actually copy something I wrote yesterday.

The thread title actually a warning for the believers. Because we got a lot of complaint about the "vocals debate derailing the discussion and bringing negativity" that's why we started these threads in the first place. so it's a warning to the believers that say "enter at your own risk and if you enter then do not complain about the content", it aims to give you "doubters" maximum freedom possible in regards to the content of your posts (as long as everyone avoid insults and can show respect)

see the updated desctiption at first post: Members coming into this thread you do so at you own responsibility, if you do not like the tone or what is being said here then you are duly asked to steer clear of this thread, as of now we will not accept any responsibility should members complain about what is written or if debates get out of hand. again it is your own responsibility as to whether you come in here and what your participation might be.

So it's quite simple as ginvid pointed out

- Don't come to this thread if you don't like it
- Don't complain if you enter this thread
- The contents do not need to be agreeable, likable or positive , it only has to be respectful.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You can't produce a song on a tape recorder, you can't put instrumentation, along with vocals on a tape recorder. The mic was most likely connected to an MPC, which then records both the instrumentation and vocals simultaneously, assuming they had a beat to record with. You also can't produce or mix vocals from a tape recorder, into a complete song.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I actually found what Akon said to be very interesting as well.

1. He said that MJ recorded Hold My Hand vocals in 1 hour and it surprised him knowing how perfectionist he was. That explains how it's possible for Michael to record 10-12 songs with Cascio's in 3 months

2. He talked about leaking of Hold My Hand (how the master's was stolen) and Michael told him "from now on we'll work at the house". If that's how he felt he could have been open to recording in a home setting to avoid leaks. He would finalize the studio recordings at a later time / close to album release.

I'm repeating what I read last night for several hours. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

One of the reasons for a vocal booth is to stop the outside noises and houses (which are generally made of wood in US) isn't that good in that regard. A tiled bathroom seems to be a better choice to stop the outside noises.

I have seen what Jesta wrote to be mentioned as well like "simultaneous mixing" and they also say shower is a good place if you are looking for that effect. I have read examples of amateur rappers recording in the shower to reach to that effect that professional rappers add at a studio. In other words if you want that effect then the shower is the perfect place for you to sing.

However they say if you want to avoid it, there are better alternatives.

It all depends on what you want to achieve in the vocals. and I agree that if Eddie told us that we'll have better understanding. However I can also see why they wouldn't do that either - because even though we can come to the conclusion of "legit vocals" by additional information , we will still be left with "low quality vocals in a substandard even wrong setting". and I think that will be the point Bumper has been making for last few days "let's say they are legit but are they acceptable?"

I haven't got the chance to view the video yet. I'm at work. I can't wait to hear the snippet played by Neff U.

The bold part is what bothers me the most the whole time. There are only a limited amount of genuine Michael Jackson vocals in good quality. However, the amount of "legitimized" Michael Jackson vocals in bad quality is far higher. To me, I feel Sony and the Estate found a working formula to maximize profits. There is no need to produce a kick-ass album. They just need to package an album that is just "good enough".

This time around. Fans were willing to buy the album; even though, many were against the Cascio tracks. We bought the albums for the other seven genuine songs. Next time, I'm pretty sure I'll buy the album as long as they don't pack the album with all questionable tracks.

Like what I mentioned before, these tracks opened the door for more mediocre songs (songs with bad quality) to come in the future.

So, to me at least. Even if the songs are legit, the song are not acceptable. I strongly feel the songs are taints to the almost perfect Michael Jackson iconic catalog. Sony and/or the Cascios are doing the opposite of what Michael stood for.

Releasing worthy materials in the vault is a challenging act. One needs to find the right balance. Some songs like MTS and BTM deserve to be recognized, some rough demos do deserve not to see the light of day.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

You can't produce a song on a tape recorder, you can't put instrumentation, along with vocals on a tape recorder. The mic was most likely connected to an MPC, which then records both the instrumentation and vocals simultaneously, assuming they had a beat to record with. You also can't produce or mix vocals from a tape recorder, into a complete song.

I mentioned tape recorder because Michael actually said it himself that he would sing his ideas into a tape recorder. If the Cascio tracks are essentially guide vocals (not meant to be produced further and released), then why they recorded in a shower, instead of just using a tape recorder.

If Michael would like to mix and complete a song, would he sing in a shower?

If Michael had no intention to mix and complete a song whatsoever, why not just grabbed his cell phone and sang into it or just used a tape recorder?

Honestly, I still can not convice myself to believe Michael had intention to complete a song recorded in a shower or a basement studio (at least not in the condition depicted by the picture shown on Oprah.)

Even if it's true that Michael did sing in the basement and in the shower, they did beat the outputs from those sessions to death.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So it's quite simple as ginvid pointed out

- Don't come to this thread if you don't like it
- Don't complain if you enter this thread
- The contents do not need to be agreeable, likable or positive , it only has to be respectful.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

2 Questions:

1. If (what i am completely sure of) Michael Jackson sings on these tracks: Is this thread & most of the posts respectful towards Michael Jackson? And Michael Jackson's talents?

2. I just don't understand why people ain't doing something (not only writing on a forum), if there are so many, who are so damn sure about their thing?

@ ginvid:
I thank you for your feedback. Honestly.
Furthermore i believe you've got a wrong picture of me. Or should i say of my "online-me"? I'm not a person who enjoys fights, or arguments! It's exactly the other way around. Though i don't fear arguments.
Most of the time i only feel the need to say something, when i feel someone, or something is not treated right / or fair! I'm not the type of guy who often posts things like "Oh i love this song" (just an example) when already 100 others have posted the same. I post when i feel MJ is treated unfair! Because MJ is dear to my heart!

But i'll now respect this thread for what it is.
I hope i can hold myself back from posting again, as i know i will again feel that Michael is disrespected by people & their posts in here.

Though i hope everyone accepts my hereby submitted apology, my opinion about these tracks & their opposers will stay the same. FOREVER.

 

[ivy]

I mentioned tape recorder because Michael actually said it himself that he would sing his ideas into a tape recorder. If the Cascio tracks are essentially guide vocals (not meant to be produced further and released), then why they recorded in a shower, instead of just using a tape recorder.

If Michael would like to mix and complete a song, would he sing in a shower?

If Michael had no intention to mix and complete a song whatsoever, why not just grabbed his cell phone and sang into it or just used a tape recorder?

Honestly, I still can not convice myself to believe Michael had intention to complete a song recorded in a shower or a basement studio (at least not in the condition depicted by the picture shown on Oprah.)

Even if it's true that Michael did sing in the basement and in the shower, they did beat the outputs from those sessions to death.

as far as I can tell guide vocals are used by the musicians and the vocalist to listen to while recording their instruments and final vocals and allows them to synchronize their timing. I don't know if a tape recorder will be enough for that or not.

----

I found this from a website.

What are guide vocals ? They are vocals that are recorded to a track very early on in the process before a lot of the other instruments are on. They may not be perfect, but they are close enough so that they hold the place of the final vocals, which are added last.

Why use them? I don’t know about you, but in general, the most important thing for me in a song is the lead singer. If it wasn’t there would be a lot of bands that play without any vocals at all – there are tons of bands that play in most other combinations. And it is for this reason that we use guide vocals. When you are trying to record an instrumental part, particularly one that doesn’t play all the time, like a guitar part or a synth, it is a lot easier to perform well with the vocals there. Maybe it’s just familiarity, but I think it’s more than that. The vocals allow you to feel how you should play your part, which will ultimately give you a song that feels right.

If you need vocals early, why not just make the guide vocals your final vocals? Why are vocals always added last? (Gives an example of a mellow vocal and then singing on top of his voice) You might think, that’s a bit odd – that doesn’t fit with the rest of the song, or the piano at all. And you’d be right, at the moment it doesn’t. But we’re planning to add instruments and totally change the feel of the song. Because He knows that and knows what he thinks the song is going to feel like, he’s singing out, and really going for it. But how can he know for sure? He can’t, and that’s why you always add the vocals last.

------

As you can see guide vocals never make their way to the final recording. They are just a road map that you replace with final vocals in the end.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I want to openly thank you here for both evaluating the idea and offering to make experiments. I really appreciate it.

If I can put on my scientific thinking hat (without offending anyone) I think I good investigation would be somewhat hard, time consuming and needs people with good knowledge of music and such editing softwares because

1. we need a low to average quality demo vocal of MJ preferably not recorded in a professional setting with professional people.

2. then we need to add "shower vocal booth" effects (reverb, echo, bass, blurring etc ) at a normal level (whatever that might be) to achieve the "shower vocals"

3. then we need to give those finalized vocals to another person (to ensure objectivity) and ask them to correct / edit/ modify them to their best ability to remove such effects - then we can have the "modified/corrected shower vocals"

4. then it will be comparing the initial vocals to the vocals from the 3rd step to see the change.

Like I said I agree that it wouldn't be "totally different" and most probably the effect on pronunciation would be minimal to none (respect to Bumper). But I'm really curious about what the level of difference or distortion will be. Personally this sounds interesting to me.

Again thank you.

I'll be working on "What A Fool Believes" a cappella with a friend of mine and include everything you said.