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Michael Jackson's Vision' DVD Boxed Set Available Everywhere Monday November 22

Sony are most likely using the same old transfer to cash in one last time. There will be a Blu Ray version one day (too much money to make off of it). But I don't think some of you guys realize how much time and money will have to go into making it happen. When a film is made, a master film print is created from the edit (or the original neg is used). That is why older films can have HD versions.

When video editing became the norm in the 1990's (even though the footage was filmed on film) the film was transferred to 480i video and edited (because they didn't need to make it any higher quality, it was only going to be shown on TV, why spend more money than needed?). All the special effects were created for 480i (dvd/broadcast quality). Therefore you can imagine that is a HUGE problem to bring to HD. ALL of the effects have to be recreated for anything from Black or White to Earth Song. All of the filmed footage will have to be found and re-transfered. Look at Scream 7million dollars and it was rendered at 480i, imagine how much it's going to cost to bring that to HD standards?

Ghosts is different because it was edited on film for a theater release same with Moonwalker. Most of the videos for Thriller and Bad where edited on film, if they have the film neg avalible they could make HD transfers pretty easy for those. ( Except Billie Jean which has early 80's video effects).

What sony should have done (if they didn't want to spend the money on a HD version) is gather the broadcast master tapes and remaster them as good as possible, make new digital files based off those masters. Instead they used transfers that were designed for laserdisc quality at best from the mid 90's.
 
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aprilshack said:
I hear why you say.It doesn't sound perfect by any means, but i'm looking forward to it nevertheless.
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Yep, I agree. While the release could have been better, Having all these videos in one collection is GREAT! Plus videos never released! I bought it. I think the more people that buy this, the more Sony will consider creating a Blu Ray ;o)
 
Skizzorpuppy said:
There are plenty of legit reasons to be disappointed (horrible transfers designed for 1980s-1990's tv's) with this set, but aspect ratio or "filling the screen" is not one of them.

I have made countless posts explaining the deal with 16x9 and MJ's videos, most of you don't want to listen, it seems like you guys WANT to hate this set. I'm done trying to explain it, I'll just sit back and laugh at the people who blindly hate.
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Please know that some of us appreciate the explanation. Plus, I think what we're getting in quantity for $28 is WELL WORTH IT! Especially, when you put this package in relation to the cost of other MJ product singularly. That is, Dangerous short films is about $10. Other compilations may be more or less. Here, I've got most of the best of MJ's work and his very last musical video ever, One More Chance. When I add everything up individually in comparison to this one package, I still feel I've come out ahead.
 
gerryevans said:
Please know that some of us appreciate the explanation. Plus, I think what we're getting in quantity for $28 is WELL WORTH IT! Especially, when you put this package in relation to the cost of other MJ product singularly. That is, Dangerous short films is about $10. Other compilations may be more or less. Here, I've got most of the best of MJ's work and his very last musical video ever, One More Chance. When I add everything up individually in comparison to this one package, I still feel I've come out ahead.
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Yep I agree, I think for the price Sony has put together a pretty decent set here.

I know the technical details of some of this stuff isn't always easy to understand or explain. But this is what I do for a living, so I always try to help people understand better. But I feel like some people just don't listen ;o). Trust me guys I too would love an awesome HD collection of MJ's videos. But there is a legit reason why it's not gonna happen right now. And there is no reason to be mad because some of the videos are not widescreen, they were never widescreen nor meant to be widescreen.
 
Skizzorpuppy said:
Yep I agree, I think for the price Sony has put together a pretty decent set here.

I know the technical details of some of this stuff isn't always easy to understand or explain. But this is what I do for a living, so I always try to help people understand better. But I feel like some people just don't listen ;o). Trust me guys I too would love an awesome HD collection of MJ's videos. But there is a legit reason why it's not gonna happen right now. And there is no reason to be mad because some of the videos are not widescreen, they were never widescreen nor meant to be widescreen.
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thank you!
 
Wrong, even if some videos were meant to be shown on TV as 4/3 format, by getting back the 35mm film you CAN TRANSFERT IT into widescreen HD, because a good 35mm print is 5 time better than Blu Ray resolution.

e.g. : Black or White was shot with Panavision optical and 35mm print, while shooting the video the moviemaker could see Michael through a live screen test, this one show different frames : 1:33, 1:85, 2:35, etc... Of course John Landis knew it felt better to focus MJ on the 1:33 frame (4/3) because of home TV format of that time. But 35mm print has a 5 to 8 mp as digital HD cam has only 2 mp.

Sony and the Estate want to make QUICK MONEY, 35mm transfert (Thriller, Bad, BW, RTT, etc..) costs a lot of time and money, they're just waiting for the right time. For starters, Thriller Making of on BR for example but not all in one.

Anyway, I'm gonna buy this, it feels good to get all videos in one pack ;-)
 
Salomons said:
Wrong, even if some videos were meant to be shown on TV as 4/3 format, by getting back the 35mm film you CAN TRANSFERT IT into widescreen HD, because a good 35mm print is 5 time better than Blu Ray resolution.
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Yes! film does have a much higher resolution than HD!

Yes! MJ's videos were shot on film and can have AWESOME HD versions. But the effects will have to be redone for HD, because they were not edited on film.

Yes! you can transfer it to widescreen, but the framing was for 4x3, you would be loosing picture by cropping of the top and bottom of the image. 35Mm film is pretty much square, you make a 1.85:1 image by matting off the top and bottom, you get a 2.35:1 image by using an anamorphic lens that "sqeezes" more image into the square frame.

The problem in creating a widescreen HD version of some of MJ's videos is the framing.
Next time you watch BAD or Black or White, use the zoom button. You'll see the problem, heads and legs will be cut off. There may be a small bit of unused info on the sides due to overscan, but not enough to solve this problem. Check out the moonwalker Blu Ray vs the 4x3 dvd. the 4x3 dvd has more image, not really an issue as Moonwalker was framed for 1.85:1, but MJ's videos meant for tv where NOT framed for a wider image inside the film frame.

MJ's video were not Pan Scanned (the process of zooming/panning a widescreen image for a 4x3 tv) for home viewing, they were shot for home viewing thus the framing is 4x3. Being shot on film is not proof they were framed for widescreen. There are tons of different aspect ratios, it's just 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 are the most common.

Thriller, Moonwalker and Ghosts where shot on film and framed for the theater at 1.85:1, these are the widescreen versions. When shown on tv the matts on the top and bottom are left open creating 4x3 versions.
 
I got my DVD-set yesterday, watched all the videos today.

I have not expected to get the videos in HD, just because they're on DVD, not BluRay.
I also have not expected that all videos are 16:9, i can't understand the ones who complains that, i see it as "original" when they are 4:3.
But even i would be happy if it will give a BR release in HD, but i don't think, that this will ever happen.

Following is, what i complain about:
- WHY THE HELL is the Refugee-Camp-Remix of BOTDF on DVD2? It has to be on the 3rd.
-> Where is the original video? It's just missing, and i cannot understand it.
- Also the HIStory video is missing, someone knows why? I do not.
- What's with Whatzupwitu with Eddie Murphy? Ok, it's not Michael's song, but Say Say Say is also on DVD3.

They could put Captain Eo and full Ghosts video on this collection, but i really don't thought, they would.

All in all it's a good collection with great videos, which are on no other DVD.
The quality is as expected, just TWYMMF sucks.
You can say, whatever you want, but the sound of nearly all videos is great! Even when i saw it on 47" flatscreen with 2.0 stereo sound, it makes alot of fun watching his fantastic videos.

So to all who are still waiting for this collection, i promise, you can looking forward to it!

Sorry for my english, regards from Germany!

Marc
 
Skizzorpuppy said:
As far as transfer quality I am with you, these videos SHOULD look better, and they COULD look better without doing much. They could be striking new digital files from the broadcast tapes. I have my set now and can confrim these are the same transfers from HIStory and other MJ dvds. They have boosted the contrast and color and zoomed into various videos to create a 16x9 image. That is about all the work that was done to these videos.

But every video on this set is presented in it's PROPER aspect ratio! These videos were framed for tv viewing (when tv's where sqaure!). Just because they were shot on film DOES NOT mean they were meant to be seen in widescreen. The videos that were framed for widescreen appear in widescreen on this set. If you desire to have your screen filled, use the zoom button. Because that is the same thing Sony would have done to make 4x3 images 16x9.

There are plenty of legit reasons to be disappointed (horrible transfers designed for 1980s-1990's tv's) with this set, but aspect ratio or "filling the screen" is not one of them.

I have made countless posts explaining the deal with 16x9 and MJ's videos, most of you don't want to listen, it seems like you guys WANT to hate this set. I'm done trying to explain it, I'll just sit back and laugh at the people who blindly hate.
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Not blindly hating, if Sony really had done a bit more to improve it, i would have applauded them for it, that would have been nice. Ok, so my bad about the screensize then, even though i still dislike it. In my collection i have the Dangerous short films and HIStory greatest hits, i only need the HIStory videoclips, but 25 euro is not much, and the booklet sure is a very nice addition. And to have all the videos handy in one package is really cool. Just not in a hurry to get it though.
 
I don't know if this has been asked/discussed already. But has anyone watched this on a BR player & HDTV? The BR upscales pretty ok, but only SOMETIMES. Upscaling sometimes make it too sharp and grainy. What is the case for Vision?
 
Darling Dear said:
I don't know if this has been asked/discussed already. But has anyone watched this on a BR player & HDTV? The BR upscales pretty ok, but only SOMETIMES. Upscaling sometimes make it too sharp and grainy. What is the case for Vision?
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I have played all 3 discs on a BR player/HDTV with excellent up scaling capabilities, my verdict is not too good. These videos are watchable and enjoyable even. They are just not up the quality they could be if Sony would have put alittle more effort into it. I still recommend buying if your on the fence. A great collection that could have been better.
 
packaging over content, thats how sony work with his video, always have... we are like magpies, if it's shnny we want it... don't matter what's inside is poor quality. oh, and i'm not being awkward to be nasty, it'a a fact.
 
Dangerous 1991 HIStory said:
It's not stupid at all. Sony knows that most MJ fans have no standards at all and that they will buy everything that has MJ's name on it.
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Uh, no.

misterm86 said:
Following is, what i complain about:
- WHY THE HELL is the Refugee-Camp-Remix of BOTDF on DVD2? It has to be on the 3rd.
-> Where is the original video? It's just missing, and i cannot understand it.
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Me neither. :no: Really stupid choice of theirs.

misterm86 said:
They could put Captain Eo and full Ghosts video on this collection, but i really don't thought, they would.
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Could they? I'm not familiar with the amount of space that is available on a DVD. Would they have been able to fit the whole Ghosts movie in?

misterm86 said:
All in all it's a good collection with great videos, which are on no other DVD.
The quality is as expected, just TWYMMF sucks.
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This is what I don't get. When I watch TWYMMF on television, it's much better quality than the DVD! Can anyone shed some light on why this is?
 
Just realized my Vision was downstairs in the mail. The booklet is included, and to me, it seems that what I got was adequate for the price. The cover of the box is interesting although blurry to me. Looking forward to watching the contents.
 
TarinJade said:
Uh, no.



Me neither. :no: Really stupid choice of theirs.



Could they? I'm not familiar with the amount of space that is available on a DVD. Would they have been able to fit the whole Ghosts movie in?



This is what I don't get. When I watch TWYMMF on television, it's much better quality than the DVD! Can anyone shed some light on why this is?
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I'm sure there is some sort of copyright issue with Capitain E.O. because of the Disney connection. I'm pretty sure Disney owns that film and paid rights to use the two songs.
If it is ever released either Disney will have to release it or Sony will have to pay Disney rights to release it. I doubt that will happen anytime soon as Disney has it playing is their parks for the foreseeable future.

I'm sure they want to keep the full Ghosts film for it's own release. As stated before Ghosts was edited on film to be released in theaters, making it possible to bring to HD without the issues other MJ videos have. I wouldn't doubt if sometime around Halloween one year we get a double feature Blu Ray of Ghosts and Thriller! Probably along with the making of special features.

The reason why these videos look better on Vh1, Bet or MTV are because they are using Broadcast tapes. These are digital tapes that were probably kept in the networks vault. They are duplicates of the master tape when the original final edit was made. The videos on the current and previous dvds were made from these tapes but they were made in the late 90's from a laserdisc master. HIStory vol 1 and 2 were released on VHS and Laserdisc before being released on dvd. The dvd is just reencoded files of the laserdisc master. They have used 15 year old files from 15 to 25 year old broadcast masters. Basically the files used are outdated and look worse because of the superior displays people now have.

Sony could have easily gotten the broadcast master tapes from the vault and made all new dvd transfers from those. They would not have been HD (far from it.) but they would have been true dvd quality, instead of transfers designed for laserdisc.

This only goes for OTW videos through HIStory videos. Ghosts and anything after that are more recent transfers and look much better.
 
Amazon US delivered mine yesterday. I have been watching the set today. Some of the videos looking like they have the VHS ripple in them (WHY for instance). Could it be my DVD player doing that?
 
I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, but it has been very interesting to read all the comments so far :)

I just find it quite sad they wouldn't go through just a little bit more trouble to make it look better, because I would have gladly paid a bit more for this amazing collection. It is good to have, yes, I haven't bought all the DVD's since I have those good old VHS tapes - just no equipment to watch them, lol :smilerolleyes:

Big thanks to you, Skizzorpuppy, for explaining stuff so that one can really understand things :clapping:
 
Disappointed Sony didn't spend a small amount of money to make new transfers of the old video instead of using the old Laserdisc transfers. Even if they did that without costly enhancement the pictures would look much better.

I'm guessing this is the reason why there is no BluRay released. They could not get away with using the old files on a BluRay - people would really be up in arms if they bought a BluRay containing Laserdisc quality video.
I hope they do release some improved video at some point because Michael Jackson DVDs have ALWAYS been poor quality with little effort. Considering MJ was a pioneer of the the music video format in the 80s and 90s I think it's disgusting that Sony don't give us a good experience.
 
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