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"Michael", a biopic about Michael Jackson, is officially happening.

If the strikes are still happening then it won't be filming or progressing in any way.
 
They didn’t even announce a cast yet, this film is still in very early production. That is if it is truly happening, I have my doubts.
 
I stumbled across this video that I thought would fit in this biopic thread. it’s a behind the scenes report with the cast of ‘the jacksons an american dream’ mini series. it also features mother katherine, as well as brother jermaine and his partner at the time, margret. I’ve never seen this before,

I’m surprised at how positively margret spoke about joe jackson - considering what she would write in her book ‘jackson family values’. I think it was all part of the usual public relations. janet didn’t want any involvement and was barely featured, despite what jermaine says here. unlike many fans, I don’t think think this was the best of the biopics. I liked it at the time because that’s all there was. I later saw how flawed it was. seeing the actors recreate the dance routines makes me realise that there’s no substitute for the real thing
 
I hope when they do the J5 portion, they actually paint the picture of how invariably traumatized MJ would be from seeing strippers at a young age, being in the room while his brothers lay with women, and having groupies sent to take his virginity.

And maybe some of the Diana Ross, Tatum O'Neal, Brooke Shields drama?
 
83magic said:
I stumbled across this video that I thought would fit in this biopic thread. it’s a behind the scenes report with the cast of ‘the jacksons an american dream’ mini series. it also features mother katherine, as well as brother jermaine and his partner at the time, margret. I’ve never seen this before,

I’m surprised at how positively margret spoke about joe jackson - considering what she would write in her book ‘jackson family values’. I think it was all part of the usual public relations. janet didn’t want any involvement and was barely featured, despite what jermaine says here. unlike many fans, I don’t think think this was the best of the biopics. I liked it at the time because that’s all there was. I later saw how flawed it was. seeing the actors recreate the dance routines makes me realise that there’s no substitute for the real thing
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Wylie! 😭
 
Isn’t the whole strippers thing a bit overplayed. I’ve been that age that age too, little boys (at least me and my friends) did all they could to catch a boobie. I remember being completely ecstatic when I saw a naked pair of tits on the beach when I was 8 or so. It was not exciting in a sexual way (yet) but it still was exciting because these things were usually hidden.

About having sex in the same room with Michael, I don’t see much in that either. I’m a history man and for many thousands of years people had no privacy. Entire families would live in a house the size of a kitchen meaning kids would see or at least be near their parents when they were making baby nr 9. Kids hundreds of years ago were much more mature than kids since WW2. I doubt it is really traumatizing but maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe Michael was a bit sensitive about it, it is perfectly fine, we all react differently but I think his trauma mostly comes from being beaten by his father and not the strippers he was performing for. I remember him saying he was feeling physically sick when he would see his father at a later age, I don’t remember him saying he felt physically sick when he met Diana Ross or any other woman.

For me it is not relevant, the beatings are relevant but even those have been downplayed by his brothers (who may possibly be more loyal to their father, or they got less beatings I don’t know). Anyway I believe Michael in this, it must have been hard at times but it was also part of the time. My grandfather would not pull back his hand either to punish me, it was a different age. Luckily I was an angelic kid so I didn’t get many slappings 😜. Of course Michael would get beaten with a belt, huge difference.

Don’t forget Michael did never look unhappy as a kid, he looked like a perfectly fine functioning young boy to me. The stuff that got to shape the older Michael were the beatings, the vitiligo, the scalp burning (and its consequences leading to addiction) these seem the most vital building blocks for his later age imo.

Anyway what do I know, I’m a peasant
 
filmandmusic said:
Isn’t the whole strippers thing a bit overplayed. I’ve been that age that age too, little boys (at least me and my friends) did all they could to catch a boobie. I remember being completely ecstatic when I saw a naked pair of tits on the beach when I was 8 or so. It was not exciting in a sexual way (yet) but it still was exciting because these things were usually hidden.

About having sex in the same room with Michael, I don’t see much in that either. I’m a history man and for many thousands of years people had no privacy. Entire families would live in a house the size of a kitchen meaning kids would see or at least be near their parents when they were making baby nr 9. Kids hundreds of years ago were much more mature than kids since WW2. I doubt it is really traumatizing but maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe Michael was a bit sensitive about it, it is perfectly fine, we all react differently but I think his trauma mostly comes from being beaten by his father and not the strippers he was performing for. I remember him saying he was feeling physically sick when he would see his father at a later age, I don’t remember him saying he felt physically sick when he met Diana Ross or any other woman.

For me it is not relevant, the beatings are relevant but even those have been downplayed by his brothers (who may possibly be more loyal to their father, or they got less beatings I don’t know). Anyway I believe Michael in this, it must have been hard at times but it was also part of the time. My grandfather would not pull back his hand either to punish me, it was a different age. Luckily I was an angelic kid so I didn’t get many slappings 😜. Of course Michael would get beaten with a belt, huge difference.

Don’t forget Michael did never look unhappy as a kid, he looked like a perfectly fine functioning young boy to me. The stuff that got to shape the older Michael were the beatings, the vitiligo, the scalp burning (and its consequences leading to addiction) these seem the most vital building blocks for his later age imo.

Anyway what do I know, I’m a peasant
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I dunno, feel like there's a lot of old attitudes in this post that I don't feel are true or should necessarily be endorsed.

It's a very individual thing and I think it's reductive to act like everyone is the same.
 
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filmandmusic said:
Maybe Michael was a bit sensitive about it, it is perfectly fine, we all react differently but I think his trauma mostly comes from being beaten by his father and not the strippers he was performing for.
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Religion also played a big part in Michaels life. Maybe that's why he wasn't into strippers and women like Madonna.
 
Hot_Street said:
Religion also played a big part in Michaels life. Maybe that's why he wasn't into strippers and women like Madonna.
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Ola Ray was a Playboy model though. It's doubtful Mike wasn't aware of that. He also went to Studio 54 in the late 1970s and all kinds of things was happening there. There's also that pic with Cindy Sorenson & Debbie Lee Carrington, lol. Then the video of him talking about some woman's boobs bouncing & others about "fish" and fish is old slang for another body part on a woman or just a woman in general similar to other animal names like "chick" & "p-". In British movies/TV I've heard women called "birds".

All of the siblings were raised Jehovah's Witnesses, but Papa Joe was never a member, that is their mother's religion. Rebbie even married another JW. Rebbie & Marlon are the only of the siblings who have never divorced. Rebbie's husband Nathaniel passed away awhile back though. Even then, the J5 did things that are against JW beliefs like singing the US national anthem & releasing a Christmas album. Most of them later left the JWs. Jermaine became a Muslim. He even has a Muslim name (Muhammad Abdul Aziz), but has never legally changed his name to it or use otofficially like Muhammad Ali (from Cassius Clay, Jr.) did.
 
filmandmusic said:
Isn’t the whole strippers thing a bit overplayed. I’ve been that age that age too, little boys (at least me and my friends) did all they could to catch a boobie. I remember being completely ecstatic when I saw a naked pair of tits on the beach when I was 8 or so. It was not exciting in a sexual way (yet) but it still was exciting because these things were usually hidden.

About having sex in the same room with Michael, I don’t see much in that either. I’m a history man and for many thousands of years people had no privacy. Entire families would live in a house the size of a kitchen meaning kids would see or at least be near their parents when they were making baby nr 9. Kids hundreds of years ago were much more mature than kids since WW2. I doubt it is really traumatizing but maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe Michael was a bit sensitive about it, it is perfectly fine, we all react differently but I think his trauma mostly comes from being beaten by his father and not the strippers he was performing for. I remember him saying he was feeling physically sick when he would see his father at a later age, I don’t remember him saying he felt physically sick when he met Diana Ross or any other woman.

For me it is not relevant, the beatings are relevant but even those have been downplayed by his brothers (who may possibly be more loyal to their father, or they got less beatings I don’t know). Anyway I believe Michael in this, it must have been hard at times but it was also part of the time. My grandfather would not pull back his hand either to punish me, it was a different age. Luckily I was an angelic kid so I didn’t get many slappings 😜. Of course Michael would get beaten with a belt, huge difference.

Don’t forget Michael did never look unhappy as a kid, he looked like a perfectly fine functioning young boy to me. The stuff that got to shape the older Michael were the beatings, the vitiligo, the scalp burning (and its consequences leading to addiction) these seem the most vital building blocks for his later age imo.

Anyway what do I know, I’m a peasant
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I think you make some valid points, f&m. Here's a quote from the Bee Gees biography that came out earlier this year:

From a Sunday Times review:

"It was while hanging out in a stripper's dressing room that an 11-year old Maurice Gibb started questioning his life. 'Will I be a normal child?' he wondered as he waited to go onstage with his twin, Robin, and elder brother, Barry, for the nightly club set their band fitted in after school."
(from Bee Gees: Children of the World by Bob Stanley)

It wasn't ideal for any of these showbiz children to be exposed to this stuff but it wasn't unusual in the 50's and 60's or even later. I'm sure the kids found it unpleasant but it doesn't automatically follow that they would be hideously traumatised by it, either. Gary Barlow of Take That was performing in working men's clubs in the 1980's at the age of 11. He did that every week for years. I don't know if he was ever on the bill with strippers but it's entirely possible. That is the sort of 'entertainment' offered by working men's clubs at that time. Wet t-shirt competitions (women only) were the norm in these sort of clubs.

SmoothGangsta said:
I dunno, feel like there's a lot of old attitudes in this post
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But it was the 1960's. The culture was very different then and showbiz kids were always exposed to stuff at a much earlier age than non-showbiz kids. Not saying it was right. Personally, I've always been much more bothered about the long hours that Michael had to work and that his working day finished so late. That bothers me way more than the strippers although I definitely don't like that, either. Not at all.

SmoothGangsta said:
that I don't feel are true
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Some of the stuff that f&m pointed out rang true for me, though. Large families living in a too-small space, for example. That would expose kids to a lot of the 'realities' of life, if I can put it like that, that perhaps would not happen in a more middle-class home environment. It was quite normal, especially back then. Life on the road is a whole other ball-game, of course. Everything is more extreme, more intense, more weird.
 
zinniabooklover said:
I think you make some valid points, f&m. Here's a quote from the Bee Gees biography that came out earlier this year:

From a Sunday Times review:

"It was while hanging out in a stripper's dressing room that an 11-year old Maurice Gibb started questioning his life. 'Will I be a normal child?' he wondered as he waited to go onstage with his twin, Robin, and elder brother, Barry, for the nightly club set their band fitted in after school."
(from Bee Gees: Children of the World by Bob Stanley)

It wasn't ideal for any of these showbiz children to be exposed to this stuff but it wasn't unusual in the 50's and 60's or even later. I'm sure the kids found it unpleasant but it doesn't automatically follow that they would be hideously traumatised by it, either. Gary Barlow of Take That was performing in working men's clubs in the 1980's at the age of 11. He did that every week for years. I don't know if he was ever on the bill with strippers but it's entirely possible. That is the sort of 'entertainment' offered by working men's clubs at that time. Wet t-shirt competitions (women only) were the norm in these sort of clubs.


But it was the 1960's. The culture was very different then and showbiz kids were always exposed to stuff at a much earlier age than non-showbiz kids. Not saying it was right. Personally, I've always been much more bothered about the long hours that Michael had to work and that his working day finished so late. That bothers me way more than the strippers although I definitely don't like that, either. Not at all.


Some of the stuff that f&m pointed out rang true for me, though. Large families living in a too-small space, for example. That would expose kids to a lot of the 'realities' of life, if I can put it like that, that perhaps would not happen in a more middle-class home environment. It was quite normal, especially back then. Life on the road is a whole other ball-game, of course. Everything is more extreme, more intense, more weird.
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Right, I was more talking about the whole it isn't a big deal thing.
 
Maybe traumatized was the wrong word, affected is more definitely true. The way it's described (By Taborrelli, but still), it sounds like it bothered Michael. Being propositioned by women specifically, that's what I say traumatized him. And, it did play on him, these stories of women and love making.. You can literally hear that subtext in his work. Even up to the point of Dangerous and stuff like Superfly Sister, MJ always was enamoured by the femme fatale and the concept of, lust over romance. He seemed to have a lot to say about it. If you look at his art piece by piece you can read a lot into it if you want to. It's the closest thing to an autobiography by him we have.

DuranDuran said:
Ola Ray was a Playboy model though. It's doubtful Mike wasn't aware of that. He also went to Studio 54 in the late 1970s and all kinds of things was happening there. There's also that pic with Cindy Sorenson & Debbie Lee Carrington, lol. Then the video of him talking about some woman's boobs bouncing & others about "fish" and fish is old slang for another body part on a woman or just a woman in general similar to other animal names like "chick" & "p-". In British movies/TV I've heard women called "birds".
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Like always, these things happen later. For some reason people never talk about cause and effect. MJ got more lax, and was more lax, that would be called "loosening up". Or else maybe desensitizing. We literally know what the mans favorite girly magazines were even. I didn't say he was asexual for crying out loud. We're talking about 10 years old being around people having sex and if that's what you think is ok or normal for society. It's a loaded topic, though, I guess.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Maybe traumatized was the wrong word, affected is more definitely true. The way it's described (By Taborrelli, but still), it sounds like it bothered Michael. Being propositioned by women specifically, that's what I say traumatized him.
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Now that I do agree with. Being on the same bill as strippers is one thing. Being propositioned by women - who would be older than him so there's an extra layer of yuck - that would be a whole other thing. But then I would also include the attention from fans at this point in his career. As a kid or young teenager, to have older teenagers / women screaming for him and giving him sexualised attention would be weird, at the very least. He definitely didn't like that and is on record about how weird and unpleasant it was to be on the receiving end of that.
 
I’ve read all the posts since my post. All I seem to get from it is Ola Ray being a playboy model, now excuse me while I try to find her pictures. See ya!
 
filmandmusic said:
Don’t forget Michael did never look unhappy as a kid, he looked like a perfectly fine functioning young boy to me. The stuff that got to shape the older Michael were the beatings, the vitiligo, the scalp burning (and its consequences leading to addiction) these seem the most vital building blocks for his later age imo.

Anyway what do I know, I’m a peasant
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I disagree completely with this. When the Jackson 5 first got famous Michael did look extremely happy. But by 1972 you can tell the fame and work was taking a toll on him. You could see it in his eyes, he looked sad and tired. The light was gone.

You can see it in videos like this. At the beginning he looks sad, during the performance his smile looks fake and his eyes look like he was about to cry the entire time.


And this video as well. He looks stressed and there is no light in his eyes.


Then there also the testimony of one of his classmates from that time. He said Michael told him "you don't know how hard I work"
 
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